Lone striker as main goal threat

[ryandormer]

I haven't been able to get a lone striker as my main goal threat in this game--at least, a lone striker without an AMC behind.

 

I play 4123/4141DM. I always have the lone striker on support, as putting him on attack seems to leave him way too isolated.

 

Has anybody got any tips on getting a lone striker with a support role as the main goal threat? Thanks

[>LJ<]

CF(s)

W(a)                                IF(s)

   Mez(s)  BBm

Reg

WB(s)      BPDde     CDde     WB(a)

SK(s)

Tactics are a modified version of vertical tiki taka. I've been using this in my Red Star save and having a lot of success, we get goals from the front three but my centre forwards are my top scorers in the league and in Europe. Admittedly its a very aggressive setup and has me romping the league as expected but its also served me well in the Champions League home games. I modify the roles for tough away games but on the whole it still works well. 

[ryandormer]

Thanks for the reply--where do you find most of your assists come from?

[Experienced Defender]

14 hours ago, ryandormer said:

Has anybody got any tips on getting a lone striker with a support role as the main goal threat?

Basically, when you set a striker on support duty, you don't expect him to be the main goal threat.Which of course does not mean that he's never going to score or get into good chances.

The good news is that you can play a lone striker on attack duty as well, and it can work nicely, provided the tactic as a whole is set up in the right way. So it would be welcome if you could post a screenshot of your tactic.

And also bear in mind that the performance of any role will always be affected by the type of the player playing it. Different players in the same role will play differently. Even the same player in the same role (and duty) will play differently within different tactical systems.

[beverage1982]

I did ma post on how I got Tammy Abraham scoring for my Villa team. Cleon has also done a series previously on "What makes a goalscorer" that I'd suggest giving a read. 

 

Basically, though it's all about creating space and opportunities for your striker, not necessarily a case of which role is right (although that's a trap I always fall into). Also depends on what kind of striker you have. For example, a pacy poacher will need a very different set up from a strong target man. 

 

Your best bet is to decide what kind of striker you have, and what kind of goals you expect them to score. Then work backwards from there. 

[ryandormer]

On 10/05/2019 at 14:37, Experienced Defender said:

provided the tactic as a whole is set up in the right way. So it would be welcome if you could post a screenshot of your tactic.

Mine looks like this at the moment:

 

 

I had the striker on CF(s) for a while, but I felt that he floated around way too much, particularly given the 'be more expressive instruction'. He has worked slightly better in the DLF(s) role. But still he isn't scoring many goals from open play. He is my main penalty taker so his status as my top scorer flatters him slightly.

[ryandormer]

On 10/05/2019 at 16:40, beverage1982 said:

Your best bet is to decide what kind of striker you have, and what kind of goals you expect them to score. Then work backwards from there. 

Thanks for the reply. I am torn whether or not to take that approach. I am so attached to the DM position. I don't like the way my team plays when I try to take that role out of the team. So I tend to build the tactic from the back--two centre backs and a DM providing a good base. I have also struggled with lone wide players, so by necessity I end up with this formation. 

 

I have tried removing the DM role and playing a 4231 (with an AM(s) and AF(a)), but the team was defensively all over the place and the striker didn't suddenly start banging them in.

[Experienced Defender]

9 hours ago, ryandormer said:

Well, looking at this tactic, you are actually creating space on the left for Felix (CMat) and Nelson (IFat) to be your main goal threats. Your striker in this case is more likely to serve as a creator/provider of assists than being the focal point of attacks. Which does not mean that he's never going to get into good goal-scoring positions and sometimes score a goal himself. Just the tactic is not suitable for him as the key goal-scorer. 

And all this apart from the question of whether you assigned all roles to the right (suitable) players, which I honestly doubt. For example, if I played Joao Felix in a CM position, I would much rather use him as a mezzala in order to utilize his great creativity and technical ability, than as a ordinary CM. 

As for your striker, I don't know his attributes, so not sure if a DLF is an "ideal" role for him. Maybe he could be a poacher? In that case, the setup of the front five could be something like this (an example): 

PO

IFsu                                APsu

DLPsu    MEZat

In this setup, the left full-back should be on attack duty (not necessarily in a CWB role), while the right one should be on support (for the sake of better balance). And I would also suggest giving the "Move into channels" PI to the poacher (on condition that you decide to try the role).

Another thing that I don't understand is - why don't you use the Counter TI in transition? I assume you want to play possession-based football - at least judging by your in-possession TIs (apart from be more expressive) as well as out-of-possession ones - but you can play a possession style and still use counter-attacks as an additional weapon when an opportunity presents itself. Especially if you have good players up front with some speed and movement off the ball (and I guess you have them).

Again, I don't know all your players, so I am kind of speculating a bit. You need to look at their attributes and traits when deciding which roles each of them is suitable for. Then you also need to take into account how those roles interact with one another and do they make sense in the style of play you want to implement.

Btw, are you possibly having defensive issues (given much higher DL as well as very attack-minded fullback roles on both sides)?

[ryandormer]

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I may give it a go. I've been hesitant to use a lone striker with an attack role, i always felt he would be way too isolated. Luckily, Dembele is pretty good at just about anything, including holding the ball up, so I can be quite flexible with his role (false 9 and trequartista aside--his passing is good, but he is not an all out creator).

 

Could I ask why you would swap the CM(a) for a Mezalla(a), and why you would swap the sides?

 

I trie counter a couple of times, but I found us giving the ball away too much. Having thought about it, I may try it again--both Nelson and Dembele are pretty rapid.

 

Thanks again

[ryandormer]

Sorry to double post, but I forgot to mention the defensive side of the game. No, no defensive problems at all.

 

 

Second best defence in the league so far. It is possible that I am relying on exceptional defenders (at Arsenal, who would have thought it), but we are also defending very well in the cup competitions with my third and fourth choice centre backs (one of whom is not a natural centre back).

 

I took the advice given in another post (I cannot remember which one--it may have been yours) about not overdoing the defensive instructions. I want to counter press, and I want to play with a high line, so I have selected those. I have not made any amendments to pressing urgency or marking instructions, and it's working really nicely.

[Rashidi]

Basically if you want your lone striker to be the main threat, then others have to create the space for him to attack into. This means you create sides on the pitch where you keep the ball well allowing players to create one v one situations elsewhere. Here a poacher can play well.

6 hours ago, ryandormer said:

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I may give it a go. I've been hesitant to use a lone striker with an attack role, i always felt he would be way too isolated. Luckily, Dembele is pretty good at just about anything, including holding the ball up, so I can be quite flexible with his role (false 9 and trequartista aside--his passing is good, but he is not an all out creator).

 

Could I ask why you would swap the CM(a) for a Mezalla(a), and why you would swap the sides?

 

I trie counter a couple of times, but I found us giving the ball away too much. Having thought about it, I may try it again--both Nelson and Dembele are pretty rapid.

 

Thanks again

I have used Poachers, TQs as lone strikers you just need to understand why its important for others to be the ones making the space for them. Isolation occurs when only that lone forward is attacking the goal without support. Example, you overload left side of the pitch with players who can keep the ball and you use a Mezzala on attack duty there. This Mezzala can work with IF on support or even a playmaker on the flank on support to keep the ball. If either one of them has the ability to switch play to the other flank you could have a winger on attack there to drop in crosses. So attacking the box would be the Mezzala or the Striker either one of them becomes the goal threat. 

The reason why someone would suggest a Mezzala is because depending on the roles around him, he could help keep the ball, control one side of the pitch. Or he could be a goal threat, or he could be both. Lone strikers do struggle a bit, but the AI in my game plays Ronaldo as a lone striker in its 41221 and he can score 30 goals a season.

[ryandormer]

Thanks for the explanation, that makes a lot of sense, I may well give that a try