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Is it cheating?  

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  1. 1. Yes or No



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24 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

I draw the line at using genie scout tbh.

What is genie scout?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Arsenal457 said:

What is genie scout?

It's a 'cheat' search engine from a 3rd party that finds the best players in your current version of FM, judging them on their potential within the game.

Rather than a wonderkid shortlist which goes on real life recommendations, it literally tells you if a player is worth buying by looking at their hidden attributes.

It literally sucks the mystery from your game and bypasses the need for scouts and scouting. Never used it. Never will.

Edited by Bothan Spy

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6 minutes ago, Bothan Spy said:

It's a 'cheat' search engine from a 3rd party that finds the best players in your current version of FM, judging them on their potential within the game.

Rather than a wonderkid shortlist which goes on real life recommendations, it literally tells you if a player is worth buying by looking at their hidden attributes.

It literally sucks the mystery from your game and bypasses the need for scouts and scouting. Never used it. Never will.

Yeah that is flat out cheating. It would be useful if you just wanted a save where you dominated.

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On that note, the wonderkids list lists all the best young players with high potential, so in effect, you are looking at players where you know their hidden attributes are higher in the PA. I don't see the difference in using an external scouting programme. 

Bottom line is I use it to sign 15-17-year-olds. They don't all make it. Or I sell a lot of them on. The youth intake rarely brings in players that are recommended by the staff as being above even 1 star in potential. Pretty grim. Even as Barcelona, the youth prospects coming through were pretty drab. But checking out Real Madrid and they are getting a superstar or two every year... seemed a bit unbalanced. 

So, fire up the external scout programme and look for top young talent at clubs outside the main stead of the leagues I will ever manage in, like Shakhtar, Genk, etc. I would only use it for youth recruitment to balance the scales.

And to balance the scales even more, I try to loan out as many youth players as I can. And any of the 'wonderkids' I have signed may eventually get sold off to another club if I don't have space in my team for them. 

I would sell them off to top clubs in Europe, which gives them an advantage, as I've moved their CA and PA closer at an early age, by signing them young, loaning them out, giving them first team experience, closing the gap on CA and PA and selling them on to other clubs so they also have good youth players. 

If that's cheating, then I am guilty.

But I feel like I'm doing what the game should already be doing, taking these great youth prospects from the lower rep clubs and excelling them in the game, makes it more exciting. 

For example, I was managing Liverpool and got a great young guy from Salamanca (in Spain 2nd division), Alfred Bonilla. I signed him at 16, loaned him out regularly until about 20 years of age. He started regularly for me until about 24 years of age. Then I got the job offer from Barcelona. So I took it. 

The golden rule about using the external scout to get players is to never resign a player I have bought in the past, no youth prospect can be rebought, no player that has made it can be rebought. 

Low and behold, Bonilla signs for Real Madrid. Now I have a problem on my hands, my rivals have bought the best defender in the game, and I usually end up playing them at least twice, but usually 6 or 7 times in a season.

Makes it interesting as Barcelona head coach. I can only sign youth prospects, and work with what I have. I can't resign any player I signed before - forgot to mention that I also managed FCP before that - so those players (even if moved on) are not in contention to be signed either. 

 

Now - I have to clear out Barcelona - sign a new youth academy team (as the current plot of youngsters are nowhere near Barcelona standard) - and I have to wait to see which of these crop of 15-17-year-olds to come good and get a first-team place, which is going to take 2-5 seasons. 

But still have to clear out deadwood, find replacement players (that I have never signed before) and keep my job at Barcelona - as they only finished 6th last season.

 

 

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I always use Genie Scout as I prefer the longer 20+ seasons save taking a team the lower leagues to the top. It does give an advantage but also levels the playing field with the AI once you are competing at the top levels on a smaller budget. I consider it a 'semi cheat' as I still believe that the AI have a small amount of knowledge on CA/PA's and I like to monitor the quality (or lack of) youth intakes coming into my team

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Posted (edited)
10 horas atrás, Gee_Simpson disse:

I draw the line at using genie scout tbh.

Same, Genie Scout is really pushing it, even for more tolerant people.

Tho I understand that after 10 / 15 / 20 years in the save we have a problem of not knowing well the player population ingame, a suggestion I already wrote here on the boards for future versions.

IRL, and about the actual players, we are "bombarded" with news about Messi, Mbappe or Ronaldo, inside FM that doesn't happen with the regens that are now the best in the world, the rising stars from each league and so on. So up to a point we don't really know them, as we should.

Still, using an app that gives exact CA and PA blows all the joy (for me).

Edited by 99

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im by no means an expert, but there is an in game function to search for media descriptions of players and wonderkids are apart of it.  If it's in game, how is that cheating?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SkiIIs said:

im by no means an expert, but there is an in game function to search for media descriptions of players and wonderkids are apart of it.  If it's in game, how is that cheating?

It is not possible to search for players by media description. You can, however, use the IGE to find the hidden attributes of players.

Edited in light of @yolixeya 's comments below

Edited by Hovis Dexter

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, 99 said:

IRL, and about the actual players, we are "bombarded" with news about Messi, Mbappe or Ronaldo, inside FM that doesn't happen with the regens that are now the best in the world, the rising stars from each league and so on. So up to a point we don't really know them, as we should.

You can make your custom player view in FM19 and sort players by their "media description" status. I don't know if that was possible on previous games, I recently just relized it is possible in FM 19. To me, even that feels kinda cheaty 'cause it's a lot easier to finde tham, but I guess it's not. Media description would be that equivalent of that "global knowledge" that some posters were mentioning.

Of course media description is always changing, and for some wonderkids it changes to a just midfielder for example, but you will still find a lot of them. Still have to scout them, and how much you see them would depend on yout scouting package.

Edited by yolixeya

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11 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

You can make your custom player view in FM19 and sort players by their "media description" status ....

How so? I can find Scouting>>Edit Search>>Add Condition>>General>>Media Handling Style but I can't see media description

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

How so? I can find Scouting>>Edit Search>>Add Condition>>General>>Media Handling Style but I can't see media description

Not there. Where you change views to general info for example, it's just above names of players.  You go to custom, and then edit current view or if it has create custom view, I don't remember exact options. And then you just add media description to a view.

Edited by yolixeya

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Posted (edited)
3 horas atrás, yolixeya disse:

Not there. Where you change views to general info for example, it's just above names of players.  You go to custom, and then edit current view or if it has create custom view, I don't remember exact options. And then you just add media description to a view.

But if I understand correctly you'd need to go through every team (or at least every big team) right? My point is, IRL, you don't need to search for Liverpool squad to know that Salah, Mané and Firmino (among others) are great players. As a football fan, and even more as a football manager, you should be able to know, at any given point of time, who are the best players and the rising stars, something you know when you start an FM save but you don't know anymore when the FM world is populated with regens.

That's why I'm against using Genie Scout but, in a save with 10, 15 or 20 years, I can acknowledge there is a case for start using it, unless FM improves something related to us being more "close" to whoever are the trending players (and more relevant to our career) at any given year.

But that's a different type of discussion ofcourse :)

Edited by 99

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3 hours ago, 99 said:

But if I understand correctly you'd need to go through every team (or at least every big team) right?

No. I'm talking about custom view for viewing players in scouting tab. You would see all the players you are able to see with your scouting package. You sort players by their media description and then just then just find what you are looking for. Only downside is that it takes some scrolling.

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Surprisingly (as I'm mostly on the "who cares about how you play your game" side), yes!

It's one thing to know that Player X or Y are likely to have high potential because they're actual well-known hot prospects in real life. But when you get a list, probably compiled after having snooped around the editor and there are names of obscure teenagers playing for third-rate clubs in Belgium, Croatia or Colombia, then it gets much like cheating because odds are you don't know them from real life and your in-game scouts'd have taken ages (and a ton of luck) to actually find them.

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3 hours ago, RBKalle said:

....third-rate clubs in Belgium, Croatia or Colombia, then it gets much like cheating because odds are you don't know them from real life and your in-game scouts'd have taken ages (and a ton of luck) to actually find them.

You can search the internet in real life for best players in those leagues at lower tier, as it stands now. 

So it would stand to reason that you should have some general knowledge of youth prospects in other countries around the world. 

https://thebogotapost.com/colombia-best-young-footballers/29803/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2047683-ranking-belgiums-top-5-wonderkids

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2158032-five-hottest-teenage-prospects-from-croatia

The game doesn't offer any platform for a manager to know about youth prospects - except in scouting them entirely by accident. 

The world's best players are always known - and all the youth talent is already known. 

They should be common knowledge in the game. 

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7 ore fa, Smurf ha scritto:

They should be common knowledge in the game. 

You can always explore the U18 sides of the biggest clubs (and of those with renowned youth setups) and of most national teams.

Of course with Fog of War on, a bit of scouting is still needed, and rightfully so... 

Unless you're following a specific league/nation and have seen the youngsters play (IF they even get to play), you have to trust media hype, fluff pieces sponsored by agents, YouTube videos and so on. Which is quite different than dowloading a shortlist of "all the U19 players with PA >160".

 

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To be clear, I haven't been downloading wonderkid shortlists and inserting them into my game, merely looking at a few online a couple of times and sometimes the hidden gems thread on here. 

I'll be starting my save with Leverkusen shortly, the way I see it, my scouts will pick these players up pretty quickly anyway. 

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9 hours ago, RBKalle said:

You can always explore the U18 sides of the biggest clubs (and of those with renowned youth setups) and of most national teams.

Which is quite different than dowloading a shortlist of "all the U19 players with PA >160".

 

It's not though. Football Managers in the real world know who all the wonderkids are at least in their general continent. As it's common knowledge. That's the real world. And this game tries to emulate the real world - and fails miserably when it comes to common knowledge of players.

Just because they have a high PA doesn't mean they will reach those heights. 

And if you want to sign a wonderkid in the game and try to develop them, then the game should afford you the option of knowing who the wonderkids are so you can scout them and attempt to sign them, just like you would in the real world.

When you're 50 years into the game it's so different, as the gaming world and players have changed so much with all newgens etc. so it's practically impossible to find a wonderkid.

However, it shouldn't be easy to sign a wonderkid. 

For example, if I am playing as AC Milan, when is the last time they signed a wonderkid from England? 

That sort of thing.

 

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Also the world of football is changing so much. You should start seeing more players moving from England to abroad. It hasn't quite happened yet, likes of Sancho setting the trend. 

But for example, Ireland should have some players with African nations as that's what is happening now. 

But that's another story.

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1 minute ago, Smurf said:

When you're 50 years into the game it's so different, as the gaming world and players have changed so much with all newgens etc. so it's practically impossible to find a wonderkid.

I find it very easy in every version to find them and I don't even use the player search - just scouts.

A wonderkid is just a player with high CA and high rep for his age. It doesn't indicate potential. I've signed plenty of good youngsters who "instantly" became wonderkids, just because of the rep increase because of the transfer. If a kid already has the description, it's because he has a high rep, so will be well known.

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1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

I find it very easy in every version to find them and I don't even use the player search - just scouts.

Show us how then. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Smurf said:

 Show us how then. 

 

There isn't a secret method. Just assign your scouts to go and scout. Scout the popular countries - your Germany, South America etc and scout youth competitions. Even if I leave scouting to the AI, I am finding plenty of these kids. They don't have to be labelled as a wonderkid, as I said, for them to be wonderkids.

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On 10/05/2019 at 18:06, Hovis Dexter said:

It is not possible to search for players by media description. You can, however, use the IGE to find the hidden attributes of players.

Edited in light of @yolixeya 's comments below

Only found out how to search for them recently myself.  Doing a Dafuge challenge and in the premier league so only now can i attempt to sign any of these

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

There isn't a secret method. Just assign your scouts to go and scout. Scout the popular countries - your Germany, South America etc and scout youth competitions. Even if I leave scouting to the AI, I am finding plenty of these kids. They don't have to be labelled as a wonderkid, as I said, for them to be wonderkids.

Shouldn't scouts have prior knowledge of the best wonderkids in their scouting range though?

As a manager, wouldn't you know who the best youth players are? I am from Ireland and as a fan, I follow the U16-U21 very closely, I know who the best players are.

I knew who John O'Shea was and his potential as a future footballer before he was even a gleam in Man Utd's eye. I used to watch him play for Waterford and it was clear he was several paces above the rest on the pitch.

I was also delighted to see Travers get his game last week, but I would bet my hat that all the premier league clubs know him and know about his youth quality and potential and have for years. Yet to a lot of people who don't follow Irish football or not a Bournemouth fan wouldn't have really heard of him. 

 Same, I am a Liverpool fan and follow the youth team, and I heard of Brewster many years ago as potential talent for the first team, as I'm sure all of England fans knew too. But how well known is this player outside of England? 

Would a club in Spain who has hired a physio/coach/etc. who is British, be able to tell the club of the potential of Brewster to the management?

Would it be a worthy news item to include that a coach that you hired from Brazil has heard on the grapevine that a 16-year-old is tearing it up in the Brazillian 2nd division? 

 

This is what I'm getting at.

Edited by Smurf

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2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

A wonderkid is just a player with high CA and high rep for his age. It doesn't indicate potential. I've signed plenty of good youngsters who "instantly" became wonderkids, just because of the rep increase because of the transfer. If a kid already has the description, it's because he has a high rep, so will be well known.

I think yo may be wrong there. For sure, reputation plays a part but if you would sign a youngster with 120CA/PA for Real Madrid and play him constantly in the first team, he still would not become a wonderkid. There is clearly some PA requirement also.

And it happens other way around too. I have signed players that are wonderkids by description, and then they would become just "midfielder".

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11 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Shouldn't scouts have prior knowledge of the best wonderkids in their scouting range though?

Yes, and often they do.

12 minutes ago, Smurf said:

As a manager, wouldn't you know who the best youth players are? I am from Ireland and as a fan, I follow the U16-U21 very closely, I know who the best players are.

Yes, and x amount of years in when there are regens, I do know.

14 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I was also delighted to see Travers get his game last week, but I would bet my hat that all the premier league clubs know him and know about his youth quality and potential and have for years. Yet to a lot of people who don't follow Irish football or not a Bournemouth fan wouldn't have really heard of him. 

 Same, I am a Liverpool fan and follow the youth team, and I heard of Brewster many years ago as potential talent for the first team, as I'm sure all of England fans knew too. But how well known is this player outside of England? 

What does this matter? You mentioned well known wonderkids. In-game, they will be well known. That's why they're listed as wonderkids by the media.

These examples in the quote will just mean they're not as widely know so might not be listed as wonderkids (yet). In-game, your scouts should still be able to "discover" them, if they don't know about them already.

18 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Would a club in Spain who has hired a physio/coach/etc. who is British, be able to tell the club of the potential of Brewster to the management?

He could, yes. In-game, his knowledge will automatically be known to the club, so more of his attributes etc will be revealed.

19 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Would it be a worthy news item to include that a coach that you hired from Brazil has heard on the grapevine that a 16-year-old is tearing it up in the Brazillian 2nd division?

This already happens too. You have people (scouts, coaches, assistant managers) approach you about people they know about or who are at their previous club etc.

The information is all there, but it's just not as easy as looking up a list with definite 180+ PA players.

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15 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Yes, and often they do.

Yes, and x amount of years in when there are regens, I do know.

What does this matter? You mentioned well known wonderkids. In-game, they will be well known. That's why they're listed as wonderkids by the media.

These examples in the quote will just mean they're not as widely know so might not be listed as wonderkids (yet). In-game, your scouts should still be able to "discover" them, if they don't know about them already.

He could, yes. In-game, his knowledge will automatically be known to the club, so more of his attributes etc will be revealed.

This already happens too. You have people (scouts, coaches, assistant managers) approach you about people they know about or who are at their previous club etc.

The information is all there, but it's just not as easy as looking up a list with definite 180+ PA players.

I don't agree with any of that. I think the way the game is geared it doesn't work like it does in the real world. 

That's my opinion I guess. 

The fact that scouts have prior knowledge is something I brought up before on the forums, delighted to see it integrated, obviously, it was a huge struggle to get that point across at the time. 

Similarly, this is a huge struggle. 

I shouldn't have to use an external programme to find the best players in the game even at youth level. If I am managing Barcelona in the year 2050, which I am currently doing, there is no way I'd know who the next Mbappe is. 
Fair enough if I am managing in 3rd tier Brazil, but I would still have a broad knowledge of players. 

Yet, at 17 years of age, the whole footballing world knows who Mbappe is, and at 19 he's living up to the hype already.

I just don't feel like I get that sort of detail in the game as it stands. 

 

Wenger once said that you could see Messi's potential at 13 years of age, it was obvious, but not so obvious with other players. Wenger even tried to sign him. 

 

Yes you can go and sign the best PA players using an external programme, but they don't always live up to the PA. 

 

I'd just like to see a more transparent world in Football Manager - coaches/physios/scouts/managers/directors all know who the next 60 wonderkids are in football. The key is to signing them at the right time. 

I just don't feel like FM offers enough.

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24 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

I think yo may be wrong there. For sure, reputation plays a part but if you would sign a youngster with 120CA/PA for Real Madrid and play him constantly in the first team, he still would not become a wonderkid. There is clearly some PA requirement also.

And it happens other way around too. I have signed players that are wonderkids by description, and then they would become just "midfielder".

I just edited 3 players. Made them all 20 years old. Gave all 3 of them 140 CA.

Player A - 20  y.o. / 140 CA / 200 PA / 2000 Rep

Player B - 20  y.o. / 140 CA / 200 PA / 10000 Rep (max Rep)

Player C - 20  y.o. / 140 CA / 145 PA / 10000 Rep

Their descriptions were all "midfielder". Then I go on holiday for 10 days. After that, player A is now "Promising Midfielder". Player B and C are now listed as "Wonderkid".

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9 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I shouldn't have to use an external programme to find the best players in the game even at youth level. If I am managing Barcelona in the year 2050, which I am currently doing, there is no way I'd know who the next Mbappe is. 
Fair enough if I am managing in 3rd tier Brazil, but I would still have a broad knowledge of players. 

Yet, at 17 years of age, the whole footballing world knows who Mbappe is, and at 19 he's living up to the hype already.

That sounds like something you struggle with, rather than a widespread issue. Even in-game, you should know who the next Mbappe is. You have scouts who will give you their opinion on who will be. Then there are also youth tournaments you can scout or even just look at the squads or stats from that tournament. Or you can look at young players getting called up to the national team, even if just for friendlies.

In-game, I know who the popular/well known wonderkids are, because I take a look at youth tournaments, I look at news items about these tournaments and I look through the scout reports. Sure my scouts may miss one here or there, but they'll be quite aware of the well known players. When it comes to deciding who to sign, that's a different matter, as it will depend on hidden attributes and also price.

Could it be that you're rushing through your save too quickly and missing the involvement of getting to know your game world?

Especially if yes, what could be done to involve you more into the game world and get to know the players in it? More news stories? More competition reports?

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3 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I just edited 3 players. Made them all 20 years old. Gave all 3 of them 140 CA.

Player A - 20  y.o. / 140 CA / 200 PA / 2000 Rep

Player B - 20  y.o. / 140 CA / 200 PA / 10000 Rep (max Rep)

Player C - 20  y.o. / 140 CA / 145 PA / 10000 Rep

Their descriptions were all "midfielder". Then I go on holiday for 10 days. After that, player A is now "Promising Midfielder". Player B and C are now listed as "Wonderkid".

That is intresting. It confirms that reputation plays a part. But you gave them too high CA as players around 150 CA can be described as "world-class". I would be intrested to see if a player with 120 CA/PA and 10000 reputation can be described as wonderkid. I doubt it.

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@Smurf , you have a point about FM not replicating the level of knowledge staff and even fans have in real life.

 

It's kinda annoying when, as a NT manager, I still get the Fog of War for some of the players in the national pool... I mean, do my staff really need to go see a player in the Top10 European league to get his attributes right?
As usual, the game is too extreme. You either get a 100% accurate assessment of a 16yo kid playing in the Finnish third tier, or you'll need to scout the starting XI of your domestic opposition for one month to get the full picture.

About young prospects, there are half-decent workarounds (like sorting the players in the Search tab for Value and filtering by age). Of course that still requires a scouting package and/or staff with knowledge of the region, which is still kinda fair.
However, the current scouting system feels way too restricted, as indeed you shouldn't need to send 2 scouts overseas to get wind of a couple of (over)hyped Brazilian or Argentinian hot prospects. Still, those infos should be really basic until you actually get some first-hand reports.

It'd create the equivalent of those awful "Top 100 players born after 2000" that papers and websites love so much. Basically you get a bunch of names, then you can either sign them no questions asked, risking to waste millions on an overrated mediocre teenager, or scout them further, risking to miss out on a great talent if AI clubs act faster,

 

What is rather unacceptable is that you're managing in a "bubble" and every tiny bit of info needs weeks or months of expensive scouting.

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Just now, HUNT3R said:

That sounds like something you struggle with, rather than a widespread issue. Even in-game, you should know who the next Mbappe is. You have scouts who will give you their opinion on who will be. Then there are also youth tournaments you can scout or even just look at the squads or stats from that tournament. Or you can look at young players getting called up to the national team, even if just for friendlies.

In-game, I know who the popular/well known wonderkids are, because I take a look at youth tournaments, I look at news items about these tournaments and I look through the scout reports. Sure my scouts may miss one here or there, but they'll be quite aware of the well known players. When it comes to deciding who to sign, that's a different matter, as it will depend on hidden attributes and also price.

It's not something I struggle with. And it is a widespread issue, or else we wouldn't be talking about it. 

There is currently no way in the game to know who the next biggest player is going to be - there is just no way. It's pure common knowledge in the real world. Yet in the game, you have to specifically scout said promising players, you have, look through youth tournaments, look through youth squads, do all the leg work to find out who the next best player will be. 

It's just ridiculously tedious in the game to find out something that should be common knowledge (in the real world).

 

Put it to you this way - I used the scouting engine to sign the best scouts in the game, got all the best. Set them to go and scout Barcelona, and to scout a particular player who I know is the best player potentially in the game - 150 CA and PA 199, he's 19. The scout team has to do this for 3 games. 

The scout report comes back that he's a decent young player, but I also spotted this other player who I highly recommend. 

I look him up and his CA is 115 and his PA is 150.

 

 

The way the game works is not realistic. It's not reflective of how the real world is finding best youth players. 

It's just not.

 

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44 minutes ago, Smurf said:

There is currently no way in the game to know who the next biggest player is going to be - there is just no way. It's pure common knowledge in the real world. Yet in the game, you have to specifically scout said promising players, you have, look through youth tournaments, look through youth squads, do all the leg work to find out who the next best player will be. 

It's just ridiculously tedious in the game to find out something that should be common knowledge (in the real world).

Yeah, but how does it become common knowledge in the real world? You're living it in real time (:D) and you're watching matches and other programs talking about football, seeing it in the paper, the internet etc. We're exposed to a lot more over a longer time period compared to FM where we blitz through a week in 30 mins or less. That's the challenge FM has.

In the opening week as Man Utd manager, I was already told about De Ligt etc. 3 weeks in, I have had even kids as young as 17 being scouted and recommended. The scouting packages reveal more players and more about them - which the big clubs do have access to. The scouts seems to be on the ball when it comes to current wonderkids, both well known and lesser know, to me anyway. And in this case, it was just a throwaway save I started now with the AI in charge of scouting. I would surely do even better if I set assignments etc myself!

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To be fair, scouting is very very imperfect...

Not often I've stumbled across an early newgen, one of those who at age 19 has already 3 seasons worth of first team exposure in the top flights and I go "how did my scouts miss him?!"... Despite having dispatched top level scouts across Europe and South America, they always seem to let plenty of talented kids slip away, while recommending has-beens or never-weres. Or established players who cost like our entire budget...

Again, I wouldn't mind scouting as much as we're supposed to do, if the outcome wasn't so unpredictable and unreliable even in situations that in real life wouldn't require a tenth of the time and effort.

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2 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

To be fair, scouting is very very imperfect...

Not often I've stumbled across an early newgen, one of those who at age 19 has already 3 seasons worth of first team exposure in the top flights and I go "how did my scouts miss him?!"... Despite having dispatched top level scouts across Europe and South America, they always seem to let plenty of talented kids slip away, while recommending has-beens or never-weres. Or established players who cost like our entire budget...

Again, I wouldn't mind scouting as much as we're supposed to do, if the outcome wasn't so unpredictable and unreliable even in situations that in real life wouldn't require a tenth of the time and effort.

Could it be a case of your scouts watching him, but not recommending him due to the club not wanting to sell or him not wanting a move?

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18 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Yeah, but how does it become common knowledge in the real world? You're living it in real time (:D) and you're watching matches and other programs talking about football, seeing it in the paper, the internet etc. We're exposed to a lot more over a longer time period compared to FM where we blitz through a week in 30 mins or less. That's the challenge FM has.

I completely agree. Seasons can go by so fast. 

This is where FM needs to step up with some ideas - create an actual list that is easily accessible in the game for the players touted as the next big thing. A Wonderkid Wall or something like that. For instance - perhaps it's part of the scouting screen - and you can click on a tab that says "Youngsters" (or Potential Wonderkids). This would give you a partial list of known players in the game that are performing well at youth level and have decent potential.

There's a filter to say "filter unrealistic targets" and this then gives you the best players under the age of 24 in your scouting region that are hotly tipped to be the best. This should have a room for error factor and based on your coaches/scouts knowledge. 

For instance, you might have a Bolivian wonderkid in the Bolivia 2nd division - but none of your coaches are South American, so there is a player there, you don't have the scouting abilities to go there, but you can keep an eye on it. Perhaps attend a match where he is playing. But should you be able to attend any match you like? I think this should also be in the scouting range - so you can't just go watch a game in Bolivia if your scouting range isn't allowed for that. But maybe if Bolivia u21 side where playing against England at Wembley it would give you an opportunity to scout the player then... 

Or you could look through your scouts, see if they have any favoured personell with links to the Bolivian 2nd division, and if you have, then maybe you could talk with them to ask them to find out more about a player. 
This shouldn't be a hidden thing, you could be able to right click on the player and go to >Scouting>Ask Coach to find out more about a player. 

Then maybe after a few days, the coach comes back with some highlights of the player, says he talked to the Physio of the Bolivian U21 over the last few days and he's reported that the player is the most highly rated player in the league and have had scouts from Barcelona, Santos and Man Utd looking at potentially signing him. 

Perhaps the report comes back of no significant findings - there's a buzz about the player but nothing concrete. 

You could then approach the board to increase the scouting range for the club. Or perhaps see if you can sign a Scout of Bolivian nationality etc. 

 

Or you could ask the club Press Secreatry to dig out news articles etc.

 

I am just spitballing out ideas. 

But anything other the current way - trawling through leagues - youth players - it's just boring - it's basically database mining. 

 

Would love a real world approach, heading to staff coaches, press, asking your players, opening dialogues around the player at the club.

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21 minuti fa, HUNT3R ha scritto:

Could it be a case of your scouts watching him, but not recommending him due to the club not wanting to sell or him not wanting a move?

But then why do they recommend me a 20M EPL player on a 50k p/w wage while I'm managing a Norwegian team whose entire transfers budget is 4M and whose top earner gets 10k p/w? ;)

Scouting is simply inconsequential...

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Yes, it's plain cheating. Of course, there are much open information out there in scouting systems in real life business, but having lists and videos on how to cheat the game is playing god and not realistic at all.

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Nah, during one of the LMA conferences, me and the lads we're chatting over lunch, and these are the names that cropped up over a few beers..   

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On 13/05/2019 at 10:22, RBKalle said:

It's kinda annoying when, as a NT manager, I still get the Fog of War for some of the players in the national pool... I mean, do my staff really need to go see a player in the Top10 European league to get his attributes right?

This is true. Think they should turn attribute masking off entirely for international sides or at least redo it with the assumption the national setup has perfect of knowledge of anyone in and around the squad and basic (star level) knowledge of pretty much everyone else that might be eligible, especially when we're talking domestically based players.

Shouldn't have to call people up or manually scout them to understand if they're close to good enough, and shouldn't be confused about the strengths and weaknesses of pretty well known foreign talents either.

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On 07/05/2019 at 13:29, Smurf said:

I think football manager needs to catch up in this regard. There are no secrets in world football anymore. Everyone knows who the up and coming stars are.

That's a reason why the scouting system revamp is annoying to me: it feels a lot more limiting, as scouts struggle to find players without paying for scouting packages, or that the possibility to get a report the next day is gone. I get that in lower leagues games aren't televised, but surely a D1 club in a country with access to the internet can have someone watch a few matches over a day, browse for news articles, and have them give their thoughts about a player? It may not be accurate at all due to not watching the player directly, of course and I accept that they can be mistaken or that further scouting is required. That said, for most of the players in the top divisions, you can get an idea of their career trajectory really fast only with YouTube; and I bet that clubs have access to even more comprehensive video databases. As mentioned here about wonderkids, it's not exactly a secret in this day and age, yet the system is more opaque than before.

 

As for the topic at hand... well sure, a FM shortlist of wonderkids isn't like real life since you do have an idea of their potential. That said, for any football enthusiast who regularly watches matches in more than a few divisions, it's also hard to pretend that you don't know that a player is promising IRL or a good bargain buy (for older players) because your scouts in FM don't know who that guy is... despite that being their exact job.

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On 13/05/2019 at 10:22, RBKalle said:

It's kinda annoying when, as a NT manager, I still get the Fog of War for some of the players in the national pool... I mean, do my staff really need to go see a player in the Top10 European league to get his attributes right?

This. It’s kinda stupid when the staff can’t give you a report about a £50m player who had 20 international caps.

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I don't do it because I want the most realistic experience possible, but I don't mind at all people doing it. What annoys me sometimes though is when people boast about the fact they've won back to back Champions Leagues with Portsmouth which wouldn't be possible without some form of divine intervention like this.

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2 hours ago, lex311085 said:

I don't do it because I want the most realistic experience possible.

If this is the case - then you would want to know about the Wonderkids in the game when you are in the year 2040. 

It's common knowledge now, websites write about them, journalistic pieces, word of mouth, coaches/physios/scouts all know who these up and coming stars are. 

But in the game, it's a lot of leg work, it's scouting multiple youth leagues, sending scouts to matches, scouring youth leagues, looking at too many stats - as I said a lot of leg work - to find out who these stars are. 

The most realistic version of the game would make it known what wonderkids are out there. 

I've heard it said multiple times over the last season by pundits 'There are no secrets in football", in relation to up and coming youth players. 

 

If we want realism in football, then the Wonderkids need to be an access a list, drawn on by the experience of the clubs staff and players. 

For instance, you might have a whisper of a good youth prospect in Bolivia, but none of your players/staff etc. are from that region so can't tell you. Or maybe one of your players played against this wonderkid in an international and a rumour could be started at the club. 

Much like when Man Utd played against Ronaldo and all the players insisted that Fergie should buy him. I know it doesn't happen often, but it should happen in some scenarios. 

 

I also think that if your staff/coaches and club are high enough rep, then all Wonderkids within reason are known to the club. 

This doesn't mean every 15-19 year old is going to move from Brazil to the 2nd division in Russia. Or even mean every wonderkid in the game will be signed by Chelsea.

Youth players should have a resistance to leaving their home country to travel around the world at 15-19 years of age (or whatever age wonderkids stop being kids). 

A good youth prospect in Argentina would be more inclined to go to a club in South America, rather than move to  mainland Europe, for example. 

 

Just ideas - just spitballing.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Smurf said:

Youth players should have a resistance to leaving their home country to travel around the world at 15-19 years of age (or whatever age wonderkids stop being kids). 

A good youth prospect in Argentina would be more inclined to go to a club in South America, rather than move to  mainland Europe, for example. 

I think that this happens. In my previous save I was at Leipzig and offered a stupid amount of money to a young Brazilian but no matter how much I offered him he refused to move. Then he moved to Barcelona for about 10% of the wages I was willing to pay. Putting aside my FM persona maybe IRL he would be making a sensible choice.

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2 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

@Smurf What's your view on attribute masking? Do you have it on or off? 

Have it on. 

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20 hours ago, Smurf said:

If this is the case - then you would want to know about the Wonderkids in the game when you are in the year 2040. 

 It's common knowledge now, websites write about them, journalistic pieces, word of mouth, coaches/physios/scouts all know who these up and coming stars are. 

But in the game, it's a lot of leg work, it's scouting multiple youth leagues, sending scouts to matches, scouring youth leagues, looking at too many stats - as I said a lot of leg work - to find out who these stars are. 

The most realistic version of the game would make it known what wonderkids are out there. 

Why you keep saying that when you can sort the pleyers in "players search" tab by their "media description" status, as previously discussed on this thread. So yes, yo can find them easily even in a year 2040.

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13 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

Why you keep saying that when you can sort the pleyers in "players search" tab by their "media description" status, as previously discussed on this thread. So yes, yo can find them easily even in a year 2040.

Can you show me how to do that? 

 

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