4-1-2-2-1 - MutliTactic Setup - Advice Needed

[MattLDempsey]

Hi All,

I am looking for some help in my quest to create a philosophy and tactical approach tin FM19 that I am happy with. I am taking inspiration from both Klopp and Guardiola although I do tend to struggle to replicate my ideas within FM. Please dissect my tactical approaches, constructive criticism would be appreciated.

What I am trying to achieve:

- Goals (I want a free-scoring front three)

How I am trying to achieve this:

- Relentless Pressing

- Periods of Extreme Possession to tire opponents out

- Periods of Extreme Attacking play

 

As you can see above, I am trying to switch between to methods of play for when I have possession of the ball. At times I want to overwhelm opponents with quick incisive attacks as you would see from Klopps Liverpool, whilst at other times I want to retain possession and run the opponents into the ground. The two methods should compliment each other.

I am happy with how are play when we do not have the ball. Everything is set up to win the ball back as quickly as possible by putting immediate pressure on the opponents. The struggles are further up the field.

Between Mane, Salah, Shaqiri and Chiesa only 3 goals and 1 assist have been registered in 6 games which confirms to me that both IF roles are being very ineffective. My idea here was that they would score the majority of the goals with the striker more focused on bringing them into play but its actually worked out that Firminio is one of the players getting the goals. The other player who is scoring his fair few amount of goals is Fabinho from CM. Rather than be pleased about this, I think this is highlighting issues we have going forward. as we have many shots every game with most of those coming from CM. This says to me that we are struggling to create going forward.

 

As my main attacking threat is when I am playing the more direct tactical (tactic 1), could anyone offer any advice as to why my IF's are ineffective and what I could possibly do to alter that?

 

 

 

[Overmars]

Tactic 2 is tougher to pull off in FM19 unless you have some really great playmakers and movement off the ball. If you are playing Milner as your AP then you are in trouble with that tactic. He can be serviceable there, but he isn't going to be on par with the top playmakers in the world. Same with Fabinho. Real-life Liverpool is not very effective when patiently probing teams. They tend to score from crosses out wide and quick counterattacks. Real-life Man City is much better than Liverpool with the low tempo game because they have the playmakers (Silva, De Bruyne) and off the ball movement (Sterling, Aguero) to make it work against anyone.

And beside all of that, I would suggest that FM19 skews a bit toward more direct, high tempo play. If you want to play lower tempo then you need better playmakers and midfielders who can score from distance.

[NabsKebabs]

I'd forget about tactic 2 for now.

With tactic 1, perhaps changing the striker role could help out. PF on support is actually not a bad choice but maybe a bit too static. I'd say Firmino is more of  a DLF or F9 support, these roles will have a bit more off the ball movement and will look to play through balls into space for the inside forwards where as the PF would just lay off simple passes. I would personally actually try the left inside forward as a winger on support in order to make the tactic a bit more balanced. Mane and Chiesa have aggressive traits (gets into opposition are and get forward whenever possible) so will still be goal threats and they are also both right footed so will cut inside anyway. Playing them as wingers would just add a bit more variety and unpredictability to their movement aswell as connecting better with the wingback on attack behind them as they will be on support. This also replicates how Liverpool play in real life as Mane usually drops slightly deeper than Salah who looks to attack the space created on the right by the overload on the left from Mane and Robertson. 

[Experienced Defender]

Both your tactics are full of overkills, both in attack and defense. In defense, you have a combination of much higher DL/LOE, extremely urgent press and counter-press all at once, which not only tend to make you vulnerable in defense, but also limits your attacking options by forcing opposition into a defensive nutshell and thus denying your players space in the final third. And then on top of that you have extremely high tempo and passes into space (the 1st tactic), both of which make your play even more rushed, increasing the likelihood of making needless mistakes that lead to a frequent loss of possession. The 2nd tactic has a different type of overkill - much shorter passing and much lower tempo + 3 playmakers (next to one another) is too much even for an extremely possession-oriented style of play.

[MattLDempsey]

17 hours ago, Overmars said:

Tactic 2 is tougher to pull off in FM19 unless you have some really great playmakers and movement off the ball. If you are playing Milner as your AP then you are in trouble with that tactic. He can be serviceable there, but he isn't going to be on par with the top playmakers in the world. Same with Fabinho. Real-life Liverpool is not very effective when patiently probing teams. They tend to score from crosses out wide and quick counterattacks. Real-life Man City is much better than Liverpool with the low tempo game because they have the playmakers (Silva, De Bruyne) and off the ball movement (Sterling, Aguero) to make it work against anyone.

And beside all of that, I would suggest that FM19 skews a bit toward more direct, high tempo play. If you want to play lower tempo then you need better playmakers and midfielders who can score from distance.

Okay, I may leave tactic 2 for now. The players positions arnt actually accurate and I dont start Milner but I do take your point that my midfield as a whole isnt quite as technically gifted as the likes of Man City. My squad (including my signings) all have good stamina and work rate which is something I do want to utilize.

 

16 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

I'd forget about tactic 2 for now.

With tactic 1, perhaps changing the striker role could help out. PF on support is actually not a bad choice but maybe a bit too static. I'd say Firmino is more of  a DLF or F9 support, these roles will have a bit more off the ball movement and will look to play through balls into space for the inside forwards where as the PF would just lay off simple passes. I would personally actually try the left inside forward as a winger on support in order to make the tactic a bit more balanced. Mane and Chiesa have aggressive traits (gets into opposition are and get forward whenever possible) so will still be goal threats and they are also both right footed so will cut inside anyway. Playing them as wingers would just add a bit more variety and unpredictability to their movement aswell as connecting better with the wingback on attack behind them as they will be on support. This also replicates how Liverpool play in real life as Mane usually drops slightly deeper than Salah who looks to attack the space created on the right by the overload on the left from Mane and Robertson. 

Thats interesting, I didnt realize PF was that static and you thoughts on the winger support role are interesting as well

 

9 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Both your tactics are full of overkills, both in attack and defense. In defense, you have a combination of much higher DL/LOE, extremely urgent press and counter-press all at once, which not only tend to make you vulnerable in defense, but also limits your attacking options by forcing opposition into a defensive nutshell and thus denying your players space in the final third. And then on top of that you have extremely high tempo and passes into space (the 1st tactic), both of which make your play even more rushed, increasing the likelihood of making needless mistakes that lead to a frequent loss of possession. The 2nd tactic has a different type of overkill - much shorter passing and much lower tempo + 3 playmakers (next to one another) is too much even for an extremely possession-oriented style of play.

My idea here is to win the ball back quickly, unsettling the opposition and not giving them time to re-organize. I'd like the ball in the back of their net before they even realize they have lost it

------

Given your suggestions, are am going to experiment with the following set-up. Hopefully the changes up top will bring some varied attacking moves and help us break down opposition.

[Experienced Defender]

4 minutes ago, MattLDempsey said:

My idea here is to win the ball back quickly, unsettling the opposition and not giving them time to re-organize. I'd like the ball in the back of their net before they even realize they have lost it

What you want (or like) is one thing. What is realistic is quite another. In some matches/against a certain type of opposition, such approach may work and pay off. But what when it does not? Have you noticed that even Klopp - a "father of geggenpress" - no longer insists on so extreme pressing, because he realized its obvious weaknesses and risks defense-wise?