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Loads of shots, poor conversion. Help


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Im playing with atletico madrid, been inspired by Simeones tactic. That means for me a flat 442.

advf a- pf s

w s- cm s- cm d- wp a

fb a-cd d- cd d- wb a

     swk d

TI: play out of defence, be more disciplined, distribute to fullbacks, counter, more urgent pressing

PI: fb a, wb a :run wide with ball, tackle harder, wp a, w s: close down more, tackle harder, adv f: roam from position, cm s: get further forward

The problem

The tactic almost working like I want it to, sturdy defence and good counter attacks. But how would you get this better? The main problem is that we are taking loads of shots but only a few good ones on target, for example last game 20 total shots but only 3 on target. My strikers get around 2-4 shots a game and the rest are spread out mainly on Saul cm s. Saul got 8 shots last game, only 1 from inside the box the rest outside the box. These shots outside the box often gets blocked. So I want better shot conversion and more shots from my strikers. Have tried "work ball into box" but I feel its not working and also defeats my purpose of swift counter attacks.

So how could I get better quality chances and better shot conversion?

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When Saul shoots, what other options does he have? Are there any good passes on for him to take? I can be fairly sure you AF(A) will spend most of his time sitting on the shoulder of the last man. If a team defends deep, there will be no room for a through ball to him. What does the PF(S) do in this situation? Where is the W(S) located relative to him? And the two attacking fullbacks?

With get further forward on the CM(S), I can easily imagine that you end up with this player separated from his midfield partner by a large gap, close to the edge of the box, and with no real passing options. The AF will actually be helping to create space for him in this position, which is good. However, if he lacks options, he will often just end up shooting because it is the best thing to do. Does Saul have the PPM "shoots from distance"? That would make this problem worse, because he would look for a shot more often.

Clearly you are getting the CM(S) into a good position on the pitch, now you need to think of a way to exploit it. Have you considered using a DLF(S) in place of the PF(S)? I think he may drop deeper in that case. This will cause the defense much more problems, because they either have to follow the DLF or stick with the AF. If they do both, you have disrupted them and this can lead to space you exploit. Your AF may get into the space, or your WP(A) may also run into that space (I rarely play this role, so I do not know what it does movement wise). I'm not saying this will be the solution to your problems, but it is a thought experiment about creating some space that someone could exploit which may lead to better chance creation.

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1 hour ago, sporadicsmiles said:

When Saul shoots, what other options does he have? Are there any good passes on for him to take? I can be fairly sure you AF(A) will spend most of his time sitting on the shoulder of the last man. If a team defends deep, there will be no room for a through ball to him. What does the PF(S) do in this situation? Where is the W(S) located relative to him? And the two attacking fullbacks?

With get further forward on the CM(S), I can easily imagine that you end up with this player separated from his midfield partner by a large gap, close to the edge of the box, and with no real passing options. The AF will actually be helping to create space for him in this position, which is good. However, if he lacks options, he will often just end up shooting because it is the best thing to do. Does Saul have the PPM "shoots from distance"? That would make this problem worse, because he would look for a shot more often.

Clearly you are getting the CM(S) into a good position on the pitch, now you need to think of a way to exploit it. Have you considered using a DLF(S) in place of the PF(S)? I think he may drop deeper in that case. This will cause the defense much more problems, because they either have to follow the DLF or stick with the AF. If they do both, you have disrupted them and this can lead to space you exploit. Your AF may get into the space, or your WP(A) may also run into that space (I rarely play this role, so I do not know what it does movement wise). I'm not saying this will be the solution to your problems, but it is a thought experiment about creating some space that someone could exploit which may lead to better chance creation.

Thanks for your advice. In older versions of the game I played with a Defensive forward coupled with a CF a and had great success. I noticed that Defensive forward was gone this year so I supposed that Pressing forward was like the old Defensive forward, is this correct?

Maybe I should try and make my pressing f (Costa) a DLF s instead? However should I leave Griezmann as AF or change his role to?

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I think the pressing forward indeed replaced the defensive forward in FM19.

It is difficult to say exactly what you should do. There is more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes. A DLF could help create space, but you would have to check what actually happens and if it helps at all. The main thing you need to think about is how to get more players available to get the pass from the CM(S). There are a lot of things you could try, and you know the tactic far better than I to be able to make the judgement.

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20 minutes ago, Bert44 said:

I noticed that Defensive forward was gone this year so I supposed that Pressing forward was like the old Defensive forward, is this correct?

Yes, PF is now what DF was before. But unlike DF, PF can be played on attack duty as well.

You haven't mentioned the mentality you use, just roles, duties and TIs.

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35 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Yes, PF is now what DF was before. But unlike DF, PF can be played on attack duty as well.

You haven't mentioned the mentality you use, just roles, duties and TIs.

Cautious, sorry about that. The reason for that is that I couldnt tick "more urgent" pressing when chosing balanced. If PF is the new DF I can not understad why the movement of my strikers differs from earlier versions.

I have concluded that I will test removing "get further forward" from my Cm s, and change my PF to DLF s and maybe swithc AF to CF a to make him come deeper and more movement. Your thoughts?

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39 minutes ago, Bert44 said:

If PF is the new DF I can not understad why the movement of my strikers differs from earlier versions

Because in FM19 player movement is improved compared to earlier versions. At least I personally like it more than before. 

 

41 minutes ago, Bert44 said:

I have concluded that I will test removing "get further forward" from my Cm s, and change my PF to DLF s and maybe swithc AF to CF a to make him come deeper and more movement. Your thoughts?

You first need to know what exactly you want to achieve, not only with your strikers (or any other positon/role), but with your tactical system as a whole. Do you wanna play patient possession football? Or a defensively solid game with quick counter-attacks (like Simeone)? Or maybe an aggressive all-out attack style? 

 

45 minutes ago, Bert44 said:

Cautious, sorry about that. The reason for that is that I couldnt tick "more urgent" pressing when chosing balanced

What option is available on the Balanced instead of more urgent? You need to know that mentality affects everything, including pressing. So when you, for example, switch from cautious to balanced, the pressing intensity will automatically become de facto higher (provided you don't change it manually), no matter how it is labeled in the tactics creator.

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