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I know the difference between the way what each the DLP and AP roles perform on the pitch in FM.  The question I have is; what attributes(if any) separate a player that is a deep lying playmaker with a player who is an advanced playmaker?

 

For example I have seen Cesc Fabregas perform the role of a deep lying playmaker many times IRL, however his defensive attributes are poor.  What attributes make Fabregas more suited to this type of role than say, Ozil?

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Posted (edited)

Not all DLP's need to be good defensively. JonJo Shelvey is a good DLP but isn't particularly good at screening or winning the ball. The differences are largely positional in that DLP's will operate in the space behind the midfield whereas AP's will generally operate in the space ahead of the midfield. AP's will  generally, although not always, be operating in tighter spaces and so need good composure, first touch, agility, OTB for example.

People may disagree but I tend to think of a DLP needing others to provide the movement and so needs lots of vision to spot their runs, whereas an AP needs good OTB in order to find pockets and then slip others in.

DLP's are players like Michael Carrick and Jonjo Shelvey whereas APs are players like Christian Ericksen and David Silva.

Edit: As long as the DLP has sufficient defensive support he can get away with focusing on playmaking.

Edited by Atarin

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Generally I would say yes. The DLP needs to find space to receive the pass and then pick out a teammate but he will generally be doing so in a less crowded area than the AP. AP's tend to need to be more mobile because they pick up the ball as the opposition are frantically getting back into their defensive shape. An immobile AP is probably not actually an AP. I could foresee playing an immobile but excellent passer as a DLP as long as he had someone doing the running alongside him.

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In FM sense both of them will attract the ball more so than a non-playmaker role, and more often than not both of of those roles tend to move towards the ball. Off the ball the DLP will get further forward less than an AP - but it is a big generalization. They both try risky passes, it's just that they occupy little bit different positions, and the DLP is a less mobile, more deeper playmaker role.

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What I’m aiming for is to be able to look at a playmakers attributes and decide whether they are more suited to being a deep lying or advanced playmaker. So knowing which attributes differentiate the two types.

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Movement-related attributes like dribbling, acceleration, pace and off the ball will be more important to an AP than a DLP.

Passing and vision will be important for both, but since a DLP would typically be making longer passes than an AP they are arguably more important in that role.

If your DLP is on a defend duty positioning becomes especially important along with the other attributes you would expect in a defensive midfielder.

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30 minutes ago, Southern Buddie said:

What I’m aiming for is to be able to look at a playmakers attributes and decide whether they are more suited to being a deep lying or advanced playmaker. So knowing which attributes differentiate the two types.

There are attributes that are important for both PM types - passing, vision, first touch, technique, anticipation, decisions, teamwork, off the ball, composure, concentration.

Then there are those that are more important for a DLP, which does not mean it would be bad for an AP to have them as well - positioning, tackling, marking.

And finally those that are more important for an AP (though not all of them are necessary), but absolutely not unwelcome for a DLP either - dribbling, agility, flair, balance, long shots, finishing.

While OTB is important for both (as already suggested), it's slightly more important for an AP than a DLP, for the simple reason that - as @Atarin correctly pointed out - AP operates in (potentially) more crowded areas. 

Hovewer, you need to know that a number of players can successfully perform both roles. So when you make the decision on which role to choose, besides looking at the player and his attributes, you need to consider your overall tactical system and its balance. Along with the attributes, there are also player traits that are welcome for any PM - dictates tempo, tries killer balls often, comes deep to get the ball, likes to switch to the other flank, tries long range passes. Of course, a PM does not (necessarily) need to have all of these at the same time. And these traits make sense only when they are coupled with the right attributes.

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ED was the first to bring it up; I wanted to highlight the importance of Flair as an attribute that can determine whether a player is better utilized as a DLP or AP, in that if a player has a low (obviously what 'low' is depends on what level you're playing at) Flair, then they can still be an excellent DLP, depending on what you want from that role*, and will likely never be anything more than a makeweight AP.

* - Specifically, I'm thinking of the DLP that acts primarily as "connective tissue", recycling possession and switching the point of attack rather than making long-range defense-splitting passes.

 

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Posted (edited)

What about in the reverse? What low scoring attributes would stop you from playing an player suited to playing as an AP, in the DLP role? Or at least make him less successful in that position?

Edited by Southern Buddie

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I agree with ED that Tackling, Marking, and Positioning are key for proper DLP play, and I'd probably add Concentration and Work Rate as well. If any of those were low, I would not use that player as a DLP(D) -- DLP(S) is a different story and more context-dependent, especially in terms of the players that you have around them.

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Thanks for the help. 

I think the conclusion I’m coming to is that the DLP(D) and AP roles are easy to differentiate which players are better suited to each role. However, maybe both types of playmaker could be suited to the DLP(S) role.

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25 minutes ago, Southern Buddie said:

maybe both types of playmaker could be suited to the DLP(S) role

Certain players can be suited, but not all. Also depends on how you use that DLP on support, in which position you  will play him,  what roles and types of players are around and behind him, etc.

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On 23/04/2019 at 19:05, Southern Buddie said:

I know the difference between the way what each the DLP and AP roles perform on the pitch in FM.  The question I have is; what attributes(if any) separate a player that is a deep lying playmaker with a player who is an advanced playmaker?

 

For example I have seen Cesc Fabregas perform the role of a deep lying playmaker many times IRL, however his defensive attributes are poor.  What attributes make Fabregas more suited to this type of role than say, Ozil?

Yes that is a point that escapes many. A DLP does not need to tackle if the system has solid protection in it. When Cesc was doing it, typically he had good players around him who could give him the time and space to string passes. You can play a poor tackler as a DLP if you wanted. He just needs to have decent positioning to intercept passes being madte. Ultimately what kind of players do you have? Can you afford luxury>

The APM can be played in a variety of positions, centre, wide or AM strata. Here again what do you need? It depends on the overall tactic. You could get an AP playing in the AM strata who acts more as a magnet and a hook to move play around him. In that case, perhaps you want a player who can pass the ball under pressure. Alternatively you could go for somewhere to drive and run at defences and then play killer balls, or one twos to arrive late in the box. Here, off the ball, dribbling become important.

In CM strata perhaps you want someone drifting around linking play or you want someone attacking centrally, dribbling. Then you have those on the flank.

Ultimately passing decisions and vision are important for any playmaker, but the rest of the attributes depends on what you want him to do. So there is no cookie cutter build here.

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I'll employ Shelvey as a DLPd but it helps if he's paired with a strong BtB because he does have deficiencies in a defense role.  However, watching him launch a pinpoint pass to the flank from deep is a joy.

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