Help Leicester 2nd season 4231

[danpomfrett]

In my first season as Leicester i finished remarkably in 4th, and after a summer window where i had a bit of a reshuffle we are currently underperforming just wondering if anyone has any advice on what they'd change with my tactic, thanks. Looking to play a 4231 with a pressing style like spurs.

[yellowforever]

To be honest your tactic looks pretty good. I don't know how far you are through the season but if you make a lot of changes to your squad like you have, it does take a while for everyone to get used to the way you play and each other as team-mates.

 

One thing that might be worth changing is "work into box". I find that that TI is sometimes a bit of a trap, particularly if you're struggling to score goals.

 

Looking at the average ratings of your players, there don't seem to be too many playing poorly. Maddison is on a 6.74 - perhaps tweaking his role and trying something different might be worthwhile?

 

Good luck.

[Experienced Defender]

Just now, danpomfrett said:

In my first season as Leicester i finished remarkably in 4th, and after a summer window where i had a bit of a reshuffle we are currently underperforming

If you finished a season in 4th with Leicester - which is a good team but certainly not expected/predicted to finish in a top four position - it means that you clearly overachieved. So opponents now generally play against you with more respect and caution than before. Which means they have adapted their tactics to your improved reputation, but you have failed to adapt yours to these new circumstances. There are a lot of people who have been facing this kind of problem.

 

5 minutes ago, danpomfrett said:

Looking to play a 4231 with a pressing style like spurs

You can play any tactical style, but only on condition that you have the right players for that particular style. Btw, what exactly do you mean by "pressing style like Spurs"?

 

7 minutes ago, danpomfrett said:

This setup is extremely risky defensively (even for a top team). Because you play with extremely urgent pressing coupled with higher DL and much higher LOE, plus counter-press to further exacerbate things. And on top of that, you are doing all this in a top-heavy system such as 4231 and high-risk mentality (positive). So your defensive settings are a clear example of a tactical overkill. And your right flanks is potentially also vulnerable with a WB on attack in a system with none in a DM position to protect the back-line in a more direct manner. Milivojevic as a BBM could struggle a lot to cover defensively for a WB bombing forward all the time.

In terms of pressing, rather than using high pressing for the entire team - and thus risk too many players being caught out of position - I would recommend what Rashidi calls "split block". This means, team pressing is left on default, but your front 4 players are asked to close down more via their player instructions (the PF is already set to max press by default).

Considering that you use a system without a DM, I would also tweak your DL and LOE, to give you more vertical compactness and thus better protect the channels. This means that DL should be (at least) a notch higher than LOE. For example: higher DL/standard LOE. Or much higher DL/higher LOE (though the latter could make you overly exposed to balls over the top).

Your in-possession TIs - short pass, POD & WBIB - as well as the deployment of 2 playmakers - suggest you want to play possession-based football. For that to work better, you need a bit more support duties. For example:

PFsu

IFat            APsu              IFsu

DLPde     BBM

 

WBsu     CDde    CDde     FBsu

SKsu/de

Of course, it does not have to be set up in this exact way. I just wanted to give you one possible example. 

Now, I have one question: why don't you use the Counter TI in transition? Not saying you should use it, just curious to learn about your reasoning on this.

 

[Experienced Defender]

24 minutes ago, yellowforever said:

if you make a lot of changes to your squad like you have, it does take a while for everyone to get used to the way you play and each other as team-mates

This is also true 

In that respect, you could well need a lot of team bonding training sessions.

[danpomfrett]

6 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

If you finished a season in 4th with Leicester - which is a good team but certainly not expected/predicted to finish in a top four position - it means that you clearly overachieved. So opponents now generally play against you with more respect and caution than before. Which means they have adapted their tactics to your improved reputation, but you have failed to adapt yours to these new circumstances. There are a lot of people who have been facing this kind of problem.

 

You can play any tactical style, but only on condition that you have the right players for that particular style. Btw, what exactly do you mean by "pressing style like Spurs"?

 

This setup is extremely risky defensively (even for a top team). Because you play with extremely urgent pressing coupled with higher DL and much higher LOE, plus counter-press to further exacerbate things. And on top of that, you are doing all this in a top-heavy system such as 4231 and high-risk mentality (positive). So your defensive settings are a clear example of a tactical overkill. And your right flanks is potentially also vulnerable with a WB on attack in a system with none in a DM position to protect the back-line in a more direct manner. Milivojevic as a BBM could struggle a lot to cover defensively for a WB bombing forward all the time.

 In terms of pressing, rather than using high pressing for the entire team - and thus risk too many players being caught out of position - I would recommend what Rashidi calls "split block". This means, team pressing is left on default, but your front 4 players are asked to close down more via their player instructions (the PF is already set to max press by default).

 Considering that you use a system without a DM, I would also tweak your DL and LOE, to give you more vertical compactness and thus better protect the channels. This means that DL should be (at least) a notch higher than LOE. For example: higher DL/standard LOE. Or much higher DL/higher LOE (though the latter could make you overly exposed to balls over the top).

 Your in-possession TIs - short pass, POD & WBIB - as well as the deployment of 2 playmakers - suggest you want to play possession-based football. For that to work better, you need a bit more support duties. For example:

 PFsu

IFat            APsu              IFsu

DLPde     BBM

 

WBsu     CDde    CDde     FBsu

SKsu/de

Of course, it does not have to be set up in this exact way. I just wanted to give you one possible example. 

Now, I have one question: why don't you use the Counter TI in transition? Not saying you should use it, just curious to learn about your reasoning on this.

 

Firstly thanks for your advice, i have taken it on board and made some tweaks, my reasoning for not using counter in transition is I want my players not to counter all the time and instead assess the situation of whether they should counter or keep the shape.

[Experienced Defender]

56 minutes ago, danpomfrett said:

my reasoning for not using counter in transition is I want my players not to counter all the time and instead assess the situation of whether they should counter or keep the shape

Okay, makes sense 

Though the Counter TI really does not mean they would "counter all the time".

[Bluebird123]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, makes sense 

Though the Counter TI really does not mean they would "counter all the time".

Not to derail the thread but could you elaborate on what it actually does? Do you initiate a counter every time you win the ball back or is it situational? 

[Experienced Defender]

11 minutes ago, Bluebird123 said:

Not to derail the thread but could you elaborate on what it actually does? Do you initiate a counter every time you win the ball back or is it situational? 

No, only when there is at least a decent opportunity that a potential counter-attack might succeed. But this also depends on other settings in the tactic, not just the Counter TI. Higher mentalities generally encourage faster transitions and more appetite for risk, so it's more likely to see more attempts of counter-attacks than on lower-risk mentalities. You can even play essentially counter-attacking football without using the Counter TI, provided you set up other elements of the tactic in a proper way.