Do you adapt your tactics to suit your ability to recruit?

[celticfan]

Playing as Celtic, into my 3rd season and I've usually played a 4231, lately moving to Gegenpressing with these roles

 

         PF(A)
     
  IF(A)  AM(S)  W(S)

    DLP(S)  BWM(D)
  
WB(S) CD(D) BPD(D) WB(A)

        SwKp(A)
        

 

Away from home / in Europe, it's more of a 41221 (or 433 with a DM) with Direct Counter Attack such as

         AF(A)
     
  IF(S)          W(S)

    DLP(S)  BWM(D)
    
         DM(D)
  
WB(Au) CD(D) NCB(D) FB(A)

        SwKp(D)
        

 

Now I have tactical problems..... but that's another story.

 

Recruitment wide, I struggle with the Ball Winning Midfielder (BWM).  It's hard to find someone within budget or good enough to challenge my current players (Lucas Tousart, Scott Brown). 

So... here is the question - do you adapt your tactics to suit what kinds of player you can recruit?

If you can't recruit players suitable for the role, what kinds of change would you make and why?

 

In my case, I'm thinking about two Deep Lying Playmakers (DLP) - one on Defend and one on Support, or a plain old Central Midfielder (Defend duty) beside the existing DLP (S) - on both tactics.

[Tsuru]

Unless the league is too weak, I don´t look for positions - I search for the best atributes for the roles/duties I need, and if necessary, I try to adapt the players and retrain them. It´s very common to find an AMC that could be a good striker or a DC/fullback that could play as a good halfback. for example. This is not a rule, however it gives me more options than if I search just by players´positions.

If i really cannot find a player even this way, I try to use a role/duty that is the most similar possible to the one that is missing - like a Deep Lying Foward instead of a Target Man, for example. It can be a problem sometimes, but I think if the system is good and well designed, it will work - maybe even better that I planned.

[99]

I'm playing a 4-2-3-1 not much different from the first tactic you showed, and what I did was change the BWM to a DLP (the pairing role to me was always a BBM, one of my favorite roles). It's been working beautifully. Against better teams I just take the mentality down a notch or two, but I never change the formation or the roles.

Finding DLPs is very easy.

[Experienced Defender]

I always adapt my tactic(s) to strengths and weaknesses of my squad. And when I say "tactic", I don't refer only to the formation but everything (roles, duties, TIs, PIs and mentality).

[herne79]

37 minutes ago, celticfan said:

Recruitment wide, I struggle with the Ball Winning Midfielder (BWM).  It's hard to find someone within budget or good enough to challenge my current players (Lucas Tousart, Scott Brown).

What do you look for in a BWM?

And, as @Tsuru says above, are you perhaps focussing on position as well?

One other thought - if you already have 2 players who can play as BWM, why do you need a third?

[celticfan]

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

What do you look for in a BWM?

And, as @Tsuru says above, are you perhaps focussing on position as well?

One other thought - if you already have 2 players who can play as BWM, why do you need a third?

Yea I hadn't thought not to look for position as well as attributes.

In terms of what I look for its 70% of the attributes for a given role to be 12 or over.

It's not so much I need a 3rd, Brown is 35 and getting weaker while Tousart wasn't convincing in the Champions League so I want to strengthen.

[celticfan]

2 hours ago, Tsuru said:

Unless the league is too weak, I don´t look for positions - I search for the best atributes for the roles/duties I need, and if necessary, I try to adapt the players and retrain them. It´s very common to find an AMC that could be a good striker or a DC/fullback that could play as a good halfback. for example. This is not a rule, however it gives me more options than if I search just by players´positions.

If i really cannot find a player even this way, I try to use a role/duty that is the most similar possible to the one that is missing - like a Deep Lying Foward instead of a Target Man, for example. It can be a problem sometimes, but I think if the system is good and well designed, it will work - maybe even better that I planned.

Will give a go at searching for attributes alone rather than with position in future. I usually do position plus I look for 70% of the attributes for a given role to be 12 or over.

What would you recommend as an alternative to a BWM?

[celticfan]

2 hours ago, 99 said:

I'm playing a 4-2-3-1 not much different from the first tactic you showed, and what I did was change the BWM to a DLP (the pairing role to me was always a BBM, one of my favorite roles). It's been working beautifully. Against better teams I just take the mentality down a notch or two, but I never change the formation or the roles.

Finding DLPs is very easy.

Yea I've got a few DLPs for example Calum McGregor, Nir Biton and Mattia Viviani. They are all better with support duty.  I'm struggling with the BWM.

I could go with a B2B but that would mean putting the DLP on Defend duty as I find I need that to avoid being caught out by long balls.

[celticfan]

15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I always adapt my tactic(s) to strengths and weaknesses of my squad. And when I say "tactic", I don't refer only to the formation but everything (roles, duties, TIs, PIs and mentality).

I did roughly the same with the current tactic in the beginning (I'm on 3rd season now). However I've found a good balance in the centre of midfield which I'm reluctant to change (I used to concede goals due to long balls over the top until I settled on the BWM and DLP). Problem is Brown and Tousart aren't quite up to it and I'm struggling to replace them.

[Experienced Defender]

24 minutes ago, celticfan said:

I did roughly the same with the current tactic in the beginning (I'm on 3rd season now). However I've found a good balance in the centre of midfield which I'm reluctant to change (I used to concede due ok long balls over the top until I settled on the BWM and DLP). Problem is Brown and Tousart aren't quite up to it and I'm struggling to replace them.

Maybe a 4231 simply is not an "ideal" system for your team. Maybe you should try with a 4141dm wide, to give you more stability in defense and at the same time allow for more creative setup of roles and duties overall. Teams that can play a 4231 can usually play a 4141dm wide and adapt to it more easily than to some other systems. Just a suggestion to think about.

[celticfan]

38 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Maybe a 4231 simply is not an "ideal" system for your team. Maybe you should try with a 4141dm wide, to give you more stability in defense and at the same time allow for more creative setup of roles and duties overall. Teams that can play a 4231 can usually play a 4141dm wide and adapt to it more easily than to some other systems. Just a suggestion to think about.

It is something I've thought about and certainly worth considering. I have Tom Rogic and Nicolas Benedetti who are strong AMs in the number 10 position. Probably could retrain them as Mezzalas in the central mid strata instead.

It would have the advantage of meaning less change when I play the 4141 system against stronger teams too.

[celticfan]

I should add for all, I'm on my 3rd season and the typical team is

SwKp: David Raya / Moreira

WB R: Cedric (Brazilian defender) / Hamari Traore

WB L: Tierney / Meling

CD: Denis Vavro / Boyata

BPD: John Souttar / Marlon (Brazilian defender)

BWM: Scott Brown/ Lucas Tousart

DLP: Calum McGregor / Nir Biton / Mattia Viviani

Winger (R): James Forest though Brazilian Striker Raniel makes a good IF

AM: Rogic / Benedetti

IF L: Lewis Morgan / Mikey Johnston

PF: Edouard / Griffiths

Key players are Tierney, Vavro, McGregor, Morgan.

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

37 minutes ago, celticfan said:

I have Tom Rogic and Nicolas Benedetti who are strong AMs in the number 10 position. Probably could retrain them as Mezzalas in the central mid strata instead.

Are they already accomplished or at least competent for a CM position (not a mezzala role)? If they have the right (suitable) attributes for mezzala - even better 

[Tsuru]

14 hours ago, celticfan said:

Will give a go at searching for attributes alone rather than with position in future. I usually do position plus I look for 70% of the attributes for a given role to be 12 or over.

What would you recommend as an alternative to a BWM?

Normally I choose 2-4 key attributes and start at 10. If there are many options I start raising both attributes, one higher at a time (11, 12, 13...), and this usually shows me the best target. I believe that if you look for too many attributes your search could be harder at times, because the majority of players are good on some aspects and not so good on others. Finding the balance on the team may be a key to success.

When I think about a BWM, I see a roaming player that moves all around the field looking for the ball and trying to recover it, and when in possession, he does simple passes and try to start attacks/counterattacks in a very simple way (not a creative one). So the natural alternatives would be other roaming roles, that is, the box to box midfielder and the roaming playmaker. However a playmaker is usually a more gifted and creative player, so if you don´t want this, the BBM would be your man.

Alternatively, you could use a CM - Support with roaming and pressing instructions. He would behave in a very similar way to a BWM.

[ajt]

nope, i have one tactic that i like and have been using/developing for a few saves now. it has 2 DM's and 2 IF's so those are the only positions that i sometimes find difficulty filling.

[zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz]

22 hours ago, celticfan said:

I struggle with the Ball Winning Midfielder (BWM).  It's hard to find someone within budget or good enough to challenge my current players

Considering that you already have Tousart it makes sense that you are struggling to find anyone better as he is one of the very best options the game has for that role.

I would be curious to hear why you feel he has been unconvincing?

[celticfan]

7 hours ago, zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz said:

Considering that you already have Tousart it makes sense that you are struggling to find anyone better as he is one of the very best options the game has for that role.

I would be curious to hear why you feel he has been unconvincing?

He didn't play particularly well in the Champions League which is why I'm looking for others.

But I do see what you mean - his attributes are very strong for the BWM role. 

[celticfan]

12 hours ago, Tsuru said:

Normally I choose 2-4 key attributes and start at 10. If there are many options I start raising both attributes, one higher at a time (11, 12, 13...), and this usually shows me the best target. I believe that if you look for too many attributes your search could be harder at times, because the majority of players are good on some aspects and not so good on others. Finding the balance on the team may be a key to success.

When I think about a BWM, I see a roaming player that moves all around the field looking for the ball and trying to recover it, and when in possession, he does simple passes and try to start attacks/counterattacks in a very simple way (not a creative one). So the natural alternatives would be other roaming roles, that is, the box to box midfielder and the roaming playmaker. However a playmaker is usually a more gifted and creative player, so if you don´t want this, the BBM would be your man.

Alternatively, you could use a CM - Support with roaming and pressing instructions. He would behave in a very similar way to a BWM.

I might go down the CM route - though I do think I need the duty to be Defend unless I make the DLP a Defend duty (and given Callum McGregor is my DLP, who has awful marking, I am reluctant to do so).

[Experienced Defender]

23 minutes ago, celticfan said:

He didn't play particularly well in the Champions League which is why I'm looking for others

When a generally good player does not play well, it usually has to do more with a wrong tactical setup overall than with the player himself, especially if his underperformance is constant (as opposed to occasional). Therefore, it may well happen that you buy a new player to replace him and end up as disappointed with him. That's why everything matters when it comes to creating tactics.