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mrgoal100

What to do when your team collapses

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That's the question.

I start a save.

Win matches.

Even titles.

Seasons go by. 

Random moment.

Collapse.

Frustrated. Disappointed. Disattached to the save.

Restart.

Again and again.

 

I want to stop this circle but I don't know how. I watch matches. I don't see what's wrong. Play another match. Lose. Play another. Lose. Ocasional win. No consistency. leaky defense. I don't know what causes my defeats so I can't even think about posible solutions because I don't know what  my problem is.

 

WHAT CAN I DO?

 

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Sometimes that type of thing is not tactical.  I'll give you an example.  You're cash rich and you do too much shopping, the squad is over stocked.  You get in a couple of offers and to balance the books and numbers you agree.  But you've just sold two highly influential players.  Then if you get off to a bad start the unrest begins.  Players missing matches complain about game time.  You're missing your influential players to help keep order and before you know it the dressing room has turned and morale is what starts eating into performance.  By then though your crashing your tactics to find the answer and they are no longer gelled and maybe not correctly tuned. 

Anyway if I see the milk turn sour thats usually the reason why.

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hace 1 hora, Robson 07 dijo:

Sometimes that type of thing is not tactical.  I'll give you an example.  You're cash rich and you do too much shopping, the squad is over stocked.  You get in a couple of offers and to balance the books and numbers you agree.  But you've just sold two highly influential players.  Then if you get off to a bad start the unrest begins.  Players missing matches complain about game time.  You're missing your influential players to help keep order and before you know it the dressing room has turned and morale is what starts eating into performance.  By then though your crashing your tactics to find the answer and they are no longer gelled and maybe not correctly tuned. 

Anyway if I see the milk turn sour thats usually the reason why.

No influential players sold.

Morale is fine.

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Usually I just accept that sometimes I am going to lose games. That is the start. There is no point in playing if I will quit the first time the going gets tough.

You need to try to work out what is causing your poor form. There will be something. For example:

- pressure on players due to closing in on the title.

- out of form players at key positions.

- Everyone is exhausted.

- Teams have changed how they play against you due to a change in your reputation.

- New signings do not fit well into your previous tactical framework.

Plus many more reasons.

The easiest thing to do is to watch games and see what is going wrong when you are losing. Why are you not playing well. Identify the problems, and try to fix them. When I have bad form, I like to try to make sure my defense is functioning as well as possible. If I do not concede I will not lose. If that means being a little more negative than usual, so be it. I will also drop players who are simply not playing very well, and give someone else in my squad a chance. And often try to get the players back in form using my reserve side to give them fixtures and confidence.

If you want more specifics, though, you will need to provide more info. If you just want to vent some steam, fair enough.

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hace 9 minutos, sporadicsmiles dijo:

Usually I just accept that sometimes I am going to lose games. That is the start. There is no point in playing if I will quit the first time the going gets tough.

You need to try to work out what is causing your poor form. There will be something. For example:

- pressure on players due to closing in on the title.

- out of form players at key positions.

- Everyone is exhausted.

- Teams have changed how they play against you due to a change in your reputation.

- New signings do not fit well into your previous tactical framework.

Plus many more reasons.

The easiest thing to do is to watch games and see what is going wrong when you are losing. Why are you not playing well. Identify the problems, and try to fix them. When I have bad form, I like to try to make sure my defense is functioning as well as possible. If I do not concede I will not lose. If that means being a little more negative than usual, so be it. I will also drop players who are simply not playing very well, and give someone else in my squad a chance. And often try to get the players back in form using my reserve side to give them fixtures and confidence.



If you want more specifics, though, you will need to provide more info. If you just want to vent some steam, fair enough.

I watch matches. I don't see what's wrong. HOnestly, If I was able to see what is going wrong I wouldn't be here posting, I would be trying to fix it.

It's been one entire year now since the collapse started. I can even identify the match. 

What specifics do you need? My tactic? Actually, it doesn't matter. It happens with any tactic but I can post it:

gk

fb.su cd.de cd.de fb.at

wm.at cm.su cm,de wm-su

am.at

cf..su

No instructions (still on fm18)

My defense is brutally leaky (39 goals conceded in 23 matches) when before the collapse it was excellent (26 goals conceded in 39 matches). I'm scoring more.

Before the collapse I was somewhat able to move my defensive line up and down to intercept attacks. Now, it really doesn't matter. 

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En ‎19‎/‎04‎/‎2019 a las 11:17, sporadicsmiles dijo:

he easiest thing to do is to watch games and see what is going wrong when you are losing. Why are you not playing well. Identify the problems, and try to fix them

What if that is precisely the problem? Like I said in my opening post, I watch matches and I don't see what is wrong. There must be an alternative, something else I can do instead. The more I watch matches, the more confused I am.

My problem is I can't identify problems watching matches. If I could, I wouldn't be here posting, in all honesty.

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What I see I don't like but I ignore the cause:

- Pass instead of shot

- Shot instead of pass

- Cross instead of pass

- Cross instead of shot

- Shot instead of cross

- Don't tackle

- Don't press

- 2 or more player going for the same ball

- 2 or more players going for the same opponent

- Miss chances

- Miss headers

- Miss tackles

- Pass the ball to the opponent

- Don't move when they are pressed

- Don't pass the ball when they are pressed

- Don't hoof the ball when they are pressed

- Don't fight for the ball

- Bodyguard opponents

- Don't follow opponents

- Don't make fouls when needed

 

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22 hours ago, mrgoal100 said:

What I see I don't like but I ignore the cause:

- Pass instead of shot

- Shot instead of pass

- Cross instead of pass

- Cross instead of shot

- Shot instead of cross

- Don't tackle

- Don't press

- 2 or more player going for the same ball

- 2 or more players going for the same opponent

- Miss chances

- Miss headers

- Miss tackles

- Pass the ball to the opponent

- Don't move when they are pressed

- Don't pass the ball when they are pressed

- Don't hoof the ball when they are pressed

- Don't fight for the ball

- Bodyguard opponents

- Don't follow opponents

- Don't make fouls when needed

 

This sounds more like an overly negative view of your play born from frustration rather than a nuanced assessment of the problem. When things aren't going our way it's easy to take shots in the dark that don't even tackle the problem in the first place. Players get better and worse and sometimes a good signing just doesn't fit in the system.

start with simple things, where are you taking shots from? if they are from far away the opponents area then you lack penetration. if you barely shoot look where and how you lost the ball, there is a problem with supplies and transition. If your defense is leaky play with a low block and see how the opponents score, do they cross from wide? win the ball high up the pitch? overload an area of the field?

 

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hace 7 minutos, Iamarock dijo:

This sounds more like an overly negative view of your play born from frustration rather than a nuanced assessment of the problem. When things aren't going our way it's easy to take shots in the dark that don't even tackle the problem in the first place. Players get better and worse and sometimes a good signing just doesn't fit in the system.

start with simple things, where are you taking shots from? if they are from far away the opponents area then you lack penetration. if you barely shoot look where and how you lost the ball, there is a problem with supplies and transition. If your defense is leaky play with a low block and see how the opponents score, do they cross from wide? win the ball high up the pitch? overload an area of the field?

 

My players are trespassed, don't move or, even worse, they move away from opponents. Why they don't tackle? How am I supposed to find out? No retorics here, how am I actually supposed to know what's going on if all that happens is my players not making a movement?

My shots are from angled positions, impossiblle shots, when there is no reason to do so. Why they don't cross like they used to do during 2 seasons? Why they stopped crossing? Why are they now shoting?

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1 minute ago, mrgoal100 said:

My players are trespassed, don't move or, even worse, they move away from opponents. Why they don't tackle? How am I supposed to find out? No retorics here, how am I actually supposed to know what's going on if all that happens is my players not making a movement?

My shots are from angled positions, impossiblle shots, when there is no reason to do so. Why they don't cross like they used to do during 2 seasons? Why they stopped crossing? Why are they now shoting?

Have you tried giving you players individual instructions such as shoot less often? alternatively sometimes players choose to shoot because they believe there is no better option which can happen if the opposition is playing very deep. What are your players PPMs? If you are playing that 442 you wrote you are using many "clean slate" like roles and have given no team instructions which means your PPms are very important.

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hace 59 minutos, Iamarock dijo:

Have you tried giving you players individual instructions such as shoot less often? alternatively sometimes players choose to shoot because they believe there is no better option which can happen if the opposition is playing very deep. What are your players PPMs? If you are playing that 442 you wrote you are using many "clean slate" like roles and have given no team instructions which means your PPms are very important.

Would you watch a match for me and tell me what you see?

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So, if I don't know why my team wins or losses there is nothing I can do a part from watching matches?

If I can't watch a match and see what's wrong, there is no hope for me?

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Do you emphasise mental attributes?

I have problems if the team contains many egocentrics and few teamplayers and/or determination is low. If such a team got a bad run it is difficult to overcome the bad mood. Do you have inconstant palyers, especially in the defense?

I have several times suffered a bad run, especially in the the second half of a season. My explanation for that is:

 

- no adequate fitness especially in lower leagues / not enough rotating

- selfish players disturbing the team mood

- to many new players who need time to integrate

- changed tactic of AI-teams

- weak mental attributes, especially low determination, low bravery etc., inconsistent performers, low concentration etc.

- too many tactic changes

 

I had recently such a problem and asked here for help. And I had a look on my matches and had to notice that I made also some managing mistakes, i. e. overrated my team and was to offensive and hat several new players which were not integrated (5 new players in the first team).  I was in my first premier league saison 12 th at christmas with 12 point distance to relegation and then went down to  16th and needed a draw in the last match to survive (got luck and got a draw against the Spurs).

Now I have only 3 new players in the second saison and thing go well (5th after 9 matches). I assume that the integration probem is now solved and I act more cautious, playing almost always 532. And I had a bit of luck.

So its often not a single problem but several or as we say in German: "You can have fleas and lice!"

 

 

 

Edited by Zardoz

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You wrote this in one of your posts:

On 20/04/2019 at 12:07, mrgoal100 said:

I watch matches and I don't see what is wrong

And then, just a couple of posts below, you say this:

On 20/04/2019 at 23:17, mrgoal100 said:

What I see I don't like but I ignore the cause:

- Pass instead of shot

- Shot instead of pass

- Cross instead of pass

- Cross instead of shot

- Shot instead of cross

- Don't tackle

- Don't press

- 2 or more player going for the same ball

- 2 or more players going for the same opponent

- Miss chances

- Miss headers

- Miss tackles

- Pass the ball to the opponent

- Don't move when they are pressed

- Don't pass the ball when they are pressed

- Don't hoof the ball when they are pressed

- Don't fight for the ball

- Bodyguard opponents

- Don't follow opponents

- Don't make fouls when needed

? ? ? :idiot:

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hace 17 horas, Experienced Defender dijo:

You wrote this in one of your posts:

And then, just a couple of posts below, you say this:

? ? ? :idiot:

I can't believe I have to make this clear...

Anyone can see a missplaced pass or a missed tackle but this is the effect, not the cause.

I obviously don't know what is wrong because I can't identity what is causing all I said. Why passes go to nobody? Why not tackling? Why not moving? And the answer is not watch a match because I'm already doing it and nothing.

As long as I don't know what is causing what, i can't fix anything. If I can't identify the cause there is nothing I can do.

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25 minutes ago, mrgoal100 said:

I can't believe I have to make this clear...

Anyone can see a missplaced pass or a missed tackle but this is the effect, not the cause.

I obviously don't know what is wrong because I can't identity what is causing all I said. Why passes go to nobody? Why not tackling? Why not moving? And the answer is not watch a match because I'm already doing it and nothing.

As long as I don't know what is causing what, i can't fix anything. If I can't identify the cause there is nothing I can do.

I guess because of this:

 

On 19/04/2019 at 11:33, mrgoal100 said:

What specifics do you need? My tactic? Actually, it doesn't matter. It happens with any tactic but I can post it:

gk

fb.su cd.de cd.de fb.at

wm.at cm.su cm,de wm-su

am.at

cf..su

No instructions (still on fm18)

You say you use no instructions. Why? Because you aren't sure what the instructions actually do and how to effectively use them? Or you trust your players' decision-making and intelligence in general, allowing them freedom to play the way they believe is the best? What about mentality and team shape (since it's FM18)? Do you leave them on default (standard and flexible) like instructions, or...?

But regardless of all this, I fear that your biggest enemy is - you yourself. Because of your extremely negative attitude (which can be observed in all your posts in this thread).

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hace 2 horas, Experienced Defender dijo:

I guess because of this:

 

You say you use no instructions. Why? Because you aren't sure what the instructions actually do and how to effectively use them? Or you trust your players' decision-making and intelligence in general, allowing them freedom to play the way they believe is the best? What about mentality and team shape (since it's FM18)? Do you leave them on default (standard and flexible) like instructions, or...?

But regardless of all this, I fear that your biggest enemy is - you yourself. Because of your extremely negative attitude (which can be observed in all your posts in this thread).

I don't use any instruction because when using them I don't see any difference. I know what they mean, I don't see what they mean happening on the pitch. I don't see shorter (or more direct) passing. I don't see WBIB, I see the same crosses and long shots. I don't see passing into space (I see the same risky passes).

It's not negative, it's realistic. I can tell you when my team starts to collapse. All I can do is wait until things turn around, which can last weeks, months or even years.

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Maybe someone else who plays fm18 could try your save to see if they experience the same (I don't). 

Edited by smeagol

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hace 1 hora, smeagol dijo:

Maybe someone else who plays fm18 could try your save to see if they experience the same (I don't). 

It happens in every save, with any team, any players, any tactic. It's completely predictable when the downturn starts and when it ends. Suddenly, my players refuse to act like human beings and perpetrate typical of simian perfomances.

All of sudden, they remember they are footballers and we win matches again.

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2 hours ago, mrgoal100 said:

It happens in every save, with any team, any players, any tactic. It's completely predictable when the downturn starts and when it ends. Suddenly, my players refuse to act like human beings and perpetrate typical of simian perfomances.

All of sudden, they remember they are footballers and we win matches again.

It's the only suggestion I have. 

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En ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2019 a las 1:48, smeagol dijo:

It's the only suggestion I have. 

I offered to post matches. If anyone would do me this favour...

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maybe game wants you to start using instructions? just maybe?

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How about you follow your own advice?

This thread is close to being locked.  Lots of people have tried helping you and really you're just throwing it back at them and having a moan.  Be open to ideas, feedback constructively and you'll have a much better time.

Anyway Looping there's really nothing new to tell you that hasn't already been said plenty of times before.

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hace 11 horas, herne79 dijo:

How about you follow your own advice?

This thread is close to being locked.  Lots of people have tried helping you and really you're just throwing it back at them and having a moan.  Be open to ideas, feedback constructively and you'll have a much better time.

Truth be told, my overall results are more than aceptable. Problem is I'm too often outplayed (and beaten) by weak teams I should easily win or better teams simply destroy me.

My judgement is good enough to know there is something I could and should be doing better but not enough to find out what.

Now, you are right this thread is going nowhere, at least until today. I'll try to use a different approach in the future.

Feel free to lock this thread if that's your judgement or keep it open if you think we/I can bring it to something constructive. I Will eventually open a new one  or post again in here. In any case, with a different approach.

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Looping I think it's about time you took a long hard look at yourself and what this game is making you do.

This forum is not just some online resource which you can take from whenever you feel the need.  It's a community of people who willingly give up their own free time to discuss issues and help others.  Can you understand that?  People who willingly give up their own free time.

That is not something to use and abuse.  And over a number of years and literally hundreds of posts that is precisely what you do.  But more than that now, because you have been permanently banned from this forum you are creating other accounts, not telling people who you really are, and continuing to selfishly take their free time.  That's deceitful, underhanded and shows absolutely no respect for those people.  If that is what this game is now making you do, stop playing the game and move on with your life.

All you do is take take take but add nothing.  Selfishly abusing people's good will and doing it deceitfully is a new low for you.  So when you state:

9 hours ago, mrgoal100 said:

I Will eventually open a new one  or post again in here

No, you won't.  This account will of course be banned, but if you have a shred of decency and respect left for the people of this community, please don't.  I ask on their behalf - please - move on.

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En ‎28‎/‎04‎/‎2019 a las 10:18, herne79 dijo:

Looping I think it's about time you took a long hard look at yourself and what this game is making you do.

This forum is not just some online resource which you can take from whenever you feel the need.  It's a community of people who willingly give up their own free time to discuss issues and help others.  Can you understand that?  People who willingly give up their own free time.

That is not something to use and abuse.  And over a number of years and literally hundreds of posts that is precisely what you do.  But more than that now, because you have been permanently banned from this forum you are creating other accounts, not telling people who you really are, and continuing to selfishly take their free time.  That's deceitful, underhanded and shows absolutely no respect for those people.  If that is what this game is now making you do, stop playing the game and move on with your life.

All you do is take take take but add nothing.  Selfishly abusing people's good will and doing it deceitfully is a new low for you.  So when you state:

No, you won't.  This account will of course be banned, but if you have a shred of decency and respect left for the people of this community, please don't.  I ask on their behalf - please - move on.

First time I came here i had just one purpose: tackle my issues with FM. Three years later, despite all kind of efforts, I'm more or less at the same point. No progress. I guess this sums up.

After a while in this fórums, my purpose changed. I wasn't only interested in tackling my issues, I wanted to be part of the community. I wanted to contribute with my opinions, participate in discussions, offer my view… But in order to do that, I had to gain knowledge because I felt my understanding was far away the mínimum level needed.

@herne79 you must remember this because I specifically told you several times. I just wanted to be part of the communtiy. The last time, you banned me. I even offered you not to post, start from scratch.. It was a long message. Your answer was a ban. Permanent.

I don't have particularly anything against you @herne79. Even when you know what happened that was non intended for my eyes… If you don't remember, I do. It was only one month after signing up here and you already wanted me to leave. Something broke that day and I think is the root cause of everything. It feels very bad when you want to be part of something and people are forcing you away not because you are doing something wrong on purpose but because you don't understand.

I know people tried to help me and I've repeated many many times how thankful I am but unfortunately nothing worked to make me understand things. What you want me to do? I can't do it better.

Ok, giving up is an alternative. I could have stopped posting and giving up playing but I really wanted to be part of the community. I find this site fantastic and discussions are amazing. I wanted to be able to follow them. I couldn't. That lead me to frustration and sometimes it made me act and look like someone who I'm not.

Add to this the language. You closed a thread because I didn't understand a sentence. 2 years later I still ignore what I missunderstood. Do you know how difficult is for me to communicate? It's not easy to follow a written discussion with many people participating in a language you struggle to communicate. It's not an excuse, it's a fact.

I felt very very ofended when people said I was ignoring advice. I never ignored anything, never, never. I did everything I was told. People just didn't believe I couldn't see or understand certain things. I couldn't do better but I never ignored anything.

You say I only take take take. I tried to add, I really tried but you among others told me to shut up because everything I said was wrong. It was completely ad hominem. I tested it. I repeated one piece of adviece you gave someone and when you saw I said it you immediately told everyone how wrong I was. For saying the same you did.

I can understand saying the same things over and over can be tiring and repetitive but what can I do if my questions remain the same? My teams collapse, always, invariably. It's what happens despite @Svenc theory it's just me restarting. It really doesn't matter if I restart or not: my team collapses and being unable to turn things around it's caused by my total unability. I don't care about winning I want to learn. If I deserve the sack, I sack myself, I don't care what the board thinks.

Sure I made mistakes and I apologize again if anyone was ofended. I did my best, I couldn't do it better, not because it was not posible but because I don't have the ability. I'm really disappointed when you think about @looping it comes to your mind words like words like deceitfull and selfish. I can't fit in my mind how things went so terribly wrong here. It's really sad.

I'm really sad I couldn't be part of this community. It feels very bad when you want to be part of something and people are forcing you away but there is nothing I can do now.

At the end, like Groucho said, I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.

I wish you all the best in all paths of life. I hope next time I'll do it better.

 

 

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