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Cant get stabile results.
WHat I really wanted is to get use of Ozils pass and Abumayangs pace. But at this point I am open for everything. Get just draws

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If you want to get the best out of Ozil you should be looking to play him centrally as an AMC or MC especially if adopting a shorter passing style, that way he has a far greater scope for where he can pass. On the wing, his passes can only go two ways and that is either inside or backwards.

As for exploiting Aubameyang's pace, I'd consider using him as an IF on the attack duty as an AML but given the rest of the tactic, I think you are going to struggle to create situations where you can consistently exploit that aspect of his game.  

In my opinion, you are being rather passive with your players and they aren't really functioning as a coherent unit. You don't need 2 defend duties in the central midfield and you can afford to be more aggressive with the forward movements of one of your fullbacks given you have a DM who will sit back and cover when they go high up the pitch. You can also be more aggressive with Ramsey and play him on an attack duty so that he gets up the pitch and offers more close support to your lone striker which you need.

What are you observing in the games that you are drawing when you think you should be winning?

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17 minutes ago, pheelf said:

If you want to get the best out of Ozil you should be looking to play him centrally as an AMC or MC especially if adopting a shorter passing style, that way he has a far greater scope for where he can pass. On the wing, his passes can only go two ways and that is either inside or backwards.

As for exploiting Aubameyang's pace, I'd consider using him as an IF on the attack duty as an AML but given the rest of the tactic, I think you are going to struggle to create situations where you can consistently exploit that aspect of his game.  

In my opinion, you are being rather passive with your players and they aren't really functioning as a coherent unit. You don't need 2 defend duties in the central midfield and you can afford to be more aggressive with the forward movements of one of your fullbacks given you have a DM who will sit back and cover when they go high up the pitch. You can also be more aggressive with Ramsey and play him on an attack duty so that he gets up the pitch and offers more close support to your lone striker which you need.

What are you observing in the games that you are drawing when you think you should be winning?

Thanks! very spot on.

1. we are to passive in the game, and dont create enough.
2. have a hard time fitting Abu in the style , if I yuse him as a inside forward, he is great on counter but else he loses the ball.

Changed to this one and helped somewhat, am winning tgames more and Ozil is assisting. Buy still I think need more to win EPL

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16 minutes ago, Nima2708 said:

Thanks! very spot on.

1. we are to passive in the game, and dont create enough.
2. have a hard time fitting Abu in the style , if I yuse him as a inside forward, he is great on counter but else he loses the ball.

Changed to this one and helped somewhat, am winning tgames more and Ozil is assisting. Buy still I think need more to win EPL

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Few things I would experiement with if I was you -

a) Do you need Work Ball Into Box?

b) Why not Pass Into Space if you want to utilize Auba's pace?

c) Up the tempo one notch to circulate the ball quicker?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nima2708 said:

Thanks! very spot on.

1. we are to passive in the game, and dont create enough.
2. have a hard time fitting Abu in the style , if I yuse him as a inside forward, he is great on counter but else he loses the ball.

Changed to this one and helped somewhat, am winning tgames more and Ozil is assisting. Buy still I think need more to win EPL

arsenal.thumb.JPG.7468f00f157d11894047ba2347a95e33.JPG

There are a few things you might want to think about when trying to balance the tactic.

1) Do you really need a player from central midfield (BBM) trying to run into the box? What happens when the play breaks down in the opposition's final third and you only have Torreira back to delay counter attacks? I think you need a player which is a bit more conservative alongside your defend duty MC to help him.

2) You have two number 9s and two number 10s in this system, you need to pick one partnership and utilize the other two players in a way which creates space for them to work. Players who operate out wide such as wingers create space centrally by dragging opposition defenders out wide, similarly players who operate inside such as Inside Forwards create space out wide by pulling defenders narrower. You need to find a balance.

3) Why not play Torreira in the RCM position and give Bellerin an attack duty to give better width on the right flank?

4) I'd also think about not having both my fullbacks playing as wingbacks given you have no DM in the system. I don't think Monreal or Kolasinac is well suited to being wingbacks anyway so perhaps look to play them as more defensively oriented fullbacks instead?

5) Alternatively, if you aren't averse to changing formations again why not try a narrow/wide diamond and have Aubameyang and Lacazette upfront as the strike partnership with Ozil as the AMC and Torreira as the DMC?

Edited by pheelf

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Posted (edited)

The patch version is very adverse against playing with wingers high up the pitch, just as it is against playing with wing-backs. I advice you to play the wingers in midfield. Play Özil on the left of midfield. I have him playing there and he broke the PL assist record in january. 

Edited by smeagol

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14 minutes ago, smeagol said:

The patch version is very adverse against playing with wingers high up the pitch, just as it is against playing with wing-backs. I advice you to play the wingers in midfield. Play Özil on the left of midfield. I have him playing there and he broke the PL assist record in january. 

If that's what you've found to fit in best with your system, fair enough.  However rest assured using players in the AML/R positions or using Wingbacks is perfectly fine in other systems and the current patch isn't adverse to or against these things :thup:.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, herne79 said:

If that's what you've found to fit in best with your system, fair enough.  However rest assured using players in the AML/R positions or using Wingbacks is perfectly fine in other systems and the current patch isn't adverse to or against these things :thup:.

Ok, that's my experience then. Maybe it is because I prefer a direct passing style. Maybe wingers high up the pitch works better with a more short passing style. My experience with wing-backs is that the opposition will continually send through balls into the space that the wing-backs leave behind when they attack or join midfield. 

Edited by smeagol

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Maybe this thread could be of some help. I created the tactic specifically for the current Arsenal team, but haven't tested it. It's based solely on my analysis of players. And it's not a plug-and-play tactic, so it would likely need some tweaking here and there occasionally.

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If you want Ozil’s creativity and Aubameyang’s pace, why don’t you drop off and let the opponent come at you more? At the moment you press & push high up the pitch so you’re likely to play in the opponent’s half so how is Aubameyang pace going to be useful in those situations?

Just giving you a slightly different idea.

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8 minutes ago, Armistice said:

If you want Ozil’s creativity and Aubameyang’s pace, why don’t you drop off and let the opponent come at you more? At the moment you press & push high up the pitch so you’re likely to play in the opponent’s half so how is Aubameyang pace going to be useful in those situations?

Just giving you a slightly different idea.

The problem with dropping off is that you give the opposition time to make a considered pass, as opposed to sometimes a panicked pass when pressed. You also give the opposition the chance to waste time. If you play a high defensive line and give the opposition time to make considered passes, you become vulnerable to long through balls. My personal experience with low defensive lines are bad, but maybe it works for others.

Aubameyang's pace is great when you use him in a high pressing game. Sometimes he wins the ball high up the pitch, but most of the times he helps in making the opposition lose the ball because of bad decision making. If you don't win the ball back with counter-pressing, you get plenty of chances to hit the opposition on the break when they lose the ball in midfield or attack. That's when a direct passing style comes in handy.

Emery is also a fan of intense pressing high up the pitch after having lost the ball, even if it doesn't always show in real life at the moment. 

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27 minutes ago, smeagol said:

The problem with dropping off is that you give the opposition time to make a considered pass, as opposed to sometimes a panicked pass when pressed. You also give the opposition the chance to waste time. If you play a high defensive line and give the opposition time to make considered passes, you become vulnerable to long through balls. My personal experience with low defensive lines are bad, but maybe it works for others.

I think @Armistice was referring to LOE, not d-line.

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1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

I think @Armistice was referring to LOE, not d-line.

Yes, I know that, I'm only saying not pressing high while holding a high defensive line might open you up to long through-balls, hence the alternative is holding a deeper defensive line. 

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1 hour ago, smeagol said:

Yes, I know that, I'm only saying not pressing high while holding a high defensive line might open you up to long through-balls, hence the alternative is holding a deeper defensive line. 

You don't need to use high (more or extremely urgent) pressing as a team instruction when playing on a high d-line (because it can be extremely risky). Instead, you can tell your 3-4 front players to maximize their pressing intensity in their player instructions (which Rashidi calls "split press" or "split block").

With a deeper d-line you are inviting too much pressure from the opposition, so your players need to be very good at defending.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

You don't need to use high (more or extremely urgent) pressing as a team instruction when playing on a high d-line (because it can be extremely risky). Instead, you can tell your 3-4 front players to maximize their pressing intensity in their player instructions (which Rashidi calls "split press" or "split block").

With a deeper d-line you are inviting too much pressure from the opposition, so your players need to be very good at defending.

Yes, I have been trying to do that myself, but it can leave lots of space between attack and midfield if the opposition manage to get through the first "pressing line". If there are available passing options after that, there's a bigger chance of being hit on the break than if you had been pressing every line. But every theory has it's faults. For example, high pressing demands a lot from the players stamina wise, and can lead to jadedness more often.

Edited by smeagol

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15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

With a deeper d-line you are inviting too much pressure from the opposition, so your players need to be very good at defending.

So what’s bad in that? Arsenal should have more than enough to defend against the likes of Bournemouth or Newcastle.

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2 hours ago, Armistice said:

So what’s bad in that? Arsenal should have more than enough to defend against the likes of Bournemouth or Newcastle.

I was not talking about Arsenal but a general principle. And my comment was a reply to smeagol's comment, not yours. 

Btw, while Arsenal should be able to defend against teams like B'mouth or N'castle, the question is why would a top team play defensively against obviously weaker sides than themselves?

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5 hours ago, smeagol said:

Yes, I have been trying to do that myself, but it can leave lots of space between attack and midfield if the opposition manage to get through the first "pressing line". If there are available passing options after that, there's a bigger chance of being hit on the break than if you had been pressing every line. But every theory has it's faults. For example, high pressing demands a lot from the players stamina wise, and can lead to jadedness more often.

Everything - including pressing levels, DL, LOE etc... - depends on how good (or bad) your players are in different aspects of the game, what system (formation) you use, how you set up roles and duties and so on.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I was not talking about Arsenal but a general principle. And my comment was a reply to smeagol's comment, not yours. 

Btw, while Arsenal should be able to defend against teams like B'mouth or N'castle, the question is why would a top team play defensively against obviously weaker sides than themselves?

Dropping off a bit doesn’t mean you play defensively.

Edited by Armistice

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1 hour ago, Armistice said:

Dropping off a bit doesn’t mean you play defensively

Of course it doesn't. But you yourself wrote this:

5 hours ago, Armistice said:

Arsenal should have more than enough to defend against the likes of Bournemouth or Newcastle

Btw, defending is not just about where you will set the def-line. It's a lot more complex.

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