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Karnack

Could use some help, not sure what to do with this tactic

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Hello,

I should start by explaining that there is some unrealistic input in this save, this is a team I created from scratch with zero players (I bought the entire team during pre-season), I also changed the entire Swedish league system. This will of course affect everything, the team not being very well gelled and so on.

I wanted to use an AM, having failed to get one to work succesfully since FM17. I wanted us to play possession football and probing the enemy defence. It worked quite well until, I guess, we claimed first place in the league with 9 points down to second and everyone started to play more defensively. We have now failed to score for 5 games and things are starting to look grim. Surprisingly (for me at least) we have been extremely solid at the back and the opposition rarely have more than 2-3 shots at goal while we usually have between 8 and 15 shots on goal.

My first response is rarely to go more attacking, Instead I've been trying to fall back and use counters once I notice that we will have the usual run towards a solid and regrouped defence and lose the ball or fire a pointless long shot. Despite having some of the quickest wingers in the league we have not succeeded with any counters so far.

At this point I just wanna see a goal (almost at the point where a goal from the oppo would be acceptable :P)

So, how do I proceed from here? How can I use my AM better? (Got a total of 4 goals and 4 assists from the AM position for the entire season and lately nothing at all. Constantly below 6.4 ratings).

 

Only PIs are AM (Take more risks)

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image.thumb.png.38bdf8c0bfa04f25f3705566665837a3.png

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I'd redistribute all the attacking midfield roles starting with the winger, don't think he's required.

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1 hour ago, Karnack said:

So, how do I proceed from here? How can I use my AM better?

I don't know any one of your players, including the AM, so I cannot tell you how you could or should use him (or anyone else for that matter). What I can tell you though is that 3 attack duties among the front 4 is a bit too much in a top-heavy system such as 4231. Two are quite enough.

You also need more penetration from deep. That's all the more reason to "sacrifice" one attack duty up front for one in a deeper position (more precisely - a fullback position).

As I said, I don't know your players, so it's impossible for me to tell you which exact role/duty you should give to any of them (and I don't even know if a 4231 is the right system for your team). I can only give you a possible example of how you could set up a 4231 to get some more penetration and variety:

PFat

IFsu          AMsu           Wat

DLPde      BBM

 

FBat     CDde    CDde    IWBde

GK/SK

Or something like this:

DLFsu

IFat             APsu             Wsu

BBM        DLPde

 

FBsu    CDde    CDde     IWBat

GK/SK

Or:

F9

APsu          SS              Wat

CMde      BBM

 

FBat     CDde    CDde     IWBde

GK/SK

And these were just a couple of possible setups of roles and duties (which need to be based on your players abilities). The next step is instructions. What combination of TIs would make more or less sense in a particular system. Do you want to play patient possession-based football, or maybe you want something faster and more concrete?

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11 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Do you want to play patient possession-based football, or maybe you want something faster and more concrete?

 

2 hours ago, Karnack said:

I wanted us to play possession football and probing the enemy defence.

 

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8 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:
2 hours ago, Karnack said:

I wanted us to play possession football and probing the enemy defence.

I know, but...

2 hours ago, Karnack said:

I wanted us to play possession football and probing the enemy defence. It worked quite well until, I guess, we claimed first place in the league with 9 points down to second and everyone started to play more defensively. We have now failed to score for 5 games and things are starting to look grim. Surprisingly (for me at least) we have been extremely solid at the back and the opposition rarely have more than 2-3 shots at goal while we usually have between 8 and 15 shots on goal.

My first response is rarely to go more attacking, Instead I've been trying to fall back and use counters once I notice that we will have the usual run towards a solid and regrouped defence and lose the ball or fire a pointless long shot. Despite having some of the quickest wingers in the league we have not succeeded with any counters so far

 

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8 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I don't know any one of your players, including the AM, so I cannot tell you how you could or should use him (or anyone else for that matter). What I can tell you though is that 3 attack duties among the front 4 is a bit too much in a top-heavy system such as 4231. Two are quite enough.

You also need more penetration from deep. That's all the more reason to "sacrifice" one attack duty up front for one in a deeper position (more precisely - a fullback position).

As I said, I don't know your players, so it's impossible for me to tell you which exact role/duty you should give to any of them (and I don't even know if a 4231 is the right system for your team). I can only give you a possible example of how you could set up a 4231 to get some more penetration and variety:

 

Thank you, a lot of good ideas. I can also add that the current choice of players is not the most "optimal" starting eleven, so in general my players are more suited to the roles chosen.

I played around with the AM in a supporting role but found that the BBM and the AM(S) often occupied the exact same area, this is not something you see when using support in the AM slot?

I want to play possession based football, but I don't think we really have the creativity, flair and dribbling skills right now to break down stubborn defences so that's why I started to play around a bit with countering, to try and get some more space for my very quick wingers fo work with.

I will try out your suggestions as soon as I get back to playing, thanks!

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7 hours ago, Karnack said:

I played around with the AM in a supporting role but found that the BBM and the AM(S) often occupied the exact same area, this is not something you see when using support in the AM slot?

They will occupy the same area in the sense that they will be close to each other most of the time, but there's nothing wrong in that per se, especially if you want to play a possession-based style. 

 

7 hours ago, Karnack said:

I want to play possession based football, but I don't think we really have the creativity, flair and dribbling skills right now to break down stubborn defences so that's why I started to play around a bit with countering, to try and get some more space for my very quick wingers fo work with

4231 is not quite an ideal system for counter-attacking football, though it can work with a proper setup of roles, duties and instructions. Btw, you can play a counter-attacking style on higher mentalities as well (as Rashidi for example has demonstrated a lot of times in his videos). I like to use the high-mentality counter-attacking football when I can't seem to break down defensive opposition in a "regular" way.

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This tactic seems to need minor tweaks only. If u get the AMA working let me know how! I never seem to get a riquelme role to work.

I would usually end up making that AM play as a pressing monster high up the field. Break up play and quickly make through passes.

With that high line of defence there's no space for the BBM or the AM to roam. Did you try  playing a deeper line? Think about Kaka in that great Milan team.

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