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Deathmongrel

Cant get my striker to score in 4231 control possession

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Posted (edited)

In my standard control possession 4231 tactic I cannot get my striker to score for the life of me. I have 2 very good strikers with high CA (4 star and 4.5 star) and very good attributes that I rotate regularly. One of them even went 23 hours without scoring which suggests something is seriously wrong with my tactic even though I am dominating most teams I play home and away. Its my wingers who are doing all the work, Id say 70% of my goals and assists come from the wingers. My strikers by far have the lowest average ratings for my team every season, the rest of the team is playing well and contributing a lot to my wins.

 

Im using the standard control possession tactic set to positive mentality (changed to attacking mentality if I am dominating a game and sometimes go defensive when trying to keep a lead late on in the game) with no changes to team instructions.

GK - SK (Support)

LB - WB (Automatic)

LCB - BPD (Cover)

RCB - CD (Stopper)

RB - WB (Defend)

LCM - DLP (Defend)

RCM - MEZ (Support)

LW - IF/W (Attack)

CAM - AM (Support)

RW - W (Support)

ST - I have tried Advanced Forward/DLF/Complete Forward on attack and none of them seem to be able to score and regularly go through goal droughts.

The problem in my eyes seems to lie between the CAM and ST, they dont link up well at all. I have very good strikers and CAMs so Im wondering what would be the best combination of roles and duties to change them to, to get the best from both of them. Preferably without changing the rest of my teams roles and duties as the rest of my team is performing very well.

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Edited by Deathmongrel

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I had the same problems (though maybe not quite as bad as yours).  I was running a 4-2-3-1 Wide (2 DMs) and have now moved to a 4-3-3 wide (1 DM).  It seems to have helped, even playing my star AMC as a Mezzala.  I agree, it seems impossible to get the AMC and lone striker to play together.  The AMC bunches up near the box and the wingers (Even the wide one) clump the box meaning no space.  He and the striker also do almost no vertical movement, so no spaces are created.  The IF tended to get the most goals, mostly from crosses from the winger.  I tried pretty much every role for the striker and still ended up with long goal droughts.  The only thing that made him look somewhat useful was he'd occasionally have a big match and put in 3, typically 1 of them a long shot, one on a corner and one the break.

The various tactics I have read seem to use the strikers mostly as decoys to draw the defenders wide, rather as the primary goalscorer.

I know the most recent patch was supposed to improve striker movement but I haven't seen much improvement.

Maybe there's some magic ingredient that will make all this work but for now I've abandoned the AMC.

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I agree with you about the AMC. In my entire 12 seasons the AMC seems to have the least impact in my team playing in a 4231. I am not a tactical genius by any means and Im sure Im doing something wrong but my AMC seems to be creating more problems than anything. I bet if I played a 4123 or a 433, my striker would be banging in the goals as a complete forward and I would also have 1 less player to carry defensively, but I just have too many good AMCs in my team right now so I want to find out the best way to utilize them with my striker. Until I do they are pretty much going to be a burden.

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I've also wondered if that formation might work if both wingers were natural wingers rather than one as an IF.  The AMC basically is acting as a second deep-lying striker, and the two wingers are providing service, rather than one of them clogging the box.

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You could definitely have a point there but I think it also depends on the role of the AMC, maybe a shadow striker or an amc with an attack duty might get in the way of the inside forward but a deeper lying amc like an advanced playmaker support might not. Again as I said previously Im not a a tactical genius :lol: Well I just changed my amc to an advanced playmaker support and my striker to advanced forward and he just scored 5 goals in 3 games. Could be pure luck but Im gona keep going with this and see how it plays out.

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39 minutes ago, Deathmongrel said:

You could definitely have a point there but I think it also depends on the role of the AMC, maybe a shadow striker or an amc with an attack duty might get in the way of the inside forward but a deeper lying amc like an advanced playmaker support might not. Again as I said previously Im not a a tactical genius :lol: Well I just changed my amc to an advanced playmaker support and my striker to advanced forward and he just scored 5 goals in 3 games. Could be pure luck but Im gona keep going with this and see how it plays out.

Well I hope it works for you. I  had a couple streaks like that too.  I definitely used that exact pairing with your formation and while there were occasionally bursts of success, I still suffered from the long dry spells.

 

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I'm back to my strikers not scoring at all again.

 

My top striker has gone 636 minutes without a goal.  He has 49 shots, 20 on target, 3 goals.

My top 6 scorers are all midfielders and wingers.

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I have the same problem again lol. Im not sure if the game is just trolling me or I am doing something seriously wrong. My top scorers are my right winger with support duty and my mezzala support. I have some of the best strikers in the world at my club but they are acting like scapegoats, it doesnt matter what role or duty I play them as.

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I don't think it's a problem with your tactics but it's the game itself. you can see in youtube the pro ones who play, their strikers goal ratio is incredibly low. in my game most league top scorers are the wingers or the AMCs.

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This is just a personal preference and no means a fact or rule.  Personally I'm not a fan of style "control possession" with a 4231.  Not a great fit for that setup.  Like I said its just preference.

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im also struggling to get my strikers to score in almost any formation I set up. currently at Sevilla and can't get Ben Yedder any chances at all using an AF.

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I think all we can do at this point is wait for FM20 to come out because I don't think you can get strikers to work like in past editions which is really sad.

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It would be great if you posted a screenshot of your tactic, because the performance of your striker(s) - or any other player/role - depends on a lot more than just the quality of the player himself and/or roles/duties. There are team instructions and player instructions as well, so anything can be the cause of your tactical issues. I cannot currently check out what are the instructions for your preset tactic (control possession), because I play FM on another computer. What I can tell you is that many people have problems with a lone striker on attack duty, especially when they play him in AF role, because he tends to be isolated. However, this need not necessarily be the case. That's why we need to see a screenshot of your tactic, so that we could analyze it in all details. 

What I can tell you is that in a 4231 the lone striker on attack duty tends to work better when played in a role such as PF or DLF, and paired with a winger on attack and IF on support, but again - other factors also play an important role (including even your defensive TIs).

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

Personally I'm not a fan of style "control possession" with a 4231.  Not a great fit for that setup.

Let me expand.  Control possession for me is a weak version of tiki-taka.  It's kinda designed to protect a lead, keep the ball, see a game out without going to the more cautious/lower mentalities.  It looks to play out of defence slowly.  I don't like that with a 4231 as not only do I have no DMC player, but my wingers are a long from my defenders up in the attacking midfield strata.  I'm basically asking my defenders to try and play via my two-man midfield.  Not easy if we are being pressed and the ball has a long way to go still to my striker.  It can work obviously, you can still build slowly from back to front just I think its harder for this style to do it when set up in a 4231. 

4231 much more suited to Vertical Tiki Taka (exc. underlaps).  Again just my opinion.

Edited by Robson 07

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I've had some success recently with single striker formations.  Not amazing, but solid.  Considering my strikers are only very good and not world class, perhaps thats to be understood.

Two keys: 1) PF(A) seems to be the best role for single striker formations.  Not sure why, but I've tried everything and it succeeds the most. 2) Mentality is key.  Against defensive sides, I actually play Cautious most of the time.  If I see my possession numbers low I'll up my pressing and play counter-press.  Against bigger sides, positive mentality works better since they rarely go total defensive, and then switch to cautious or defensive with counter if I get the lead.

I realized that against defensive sides, if I play balanced or higher with my attackers on Attack, they will just dribble themselves into 3 defenders every time they touch the ball.  Thats why I switch to cautious.

 

 

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The problem with (some/most of the) preset tactics is, while they give you some basic idea of what a certain tactical style looks like, they in most cases need some tweaking to be better adapted to your players, i.e. their strengths and weaknesses.

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