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Vanarama National Playoffs - Season 2 (2020-21)

With disappointment still ringing in our ears, we turned our gaze forward and to the forthcoming playoffs; For the uninitiated, the playoffs for the Vanarama leagues have changed in recent years with 6 teams (2nd - 7th) entering. The teams finishing 2nd & 3rd (us & Crewe) receive a bye through to the semi finals, but we'd have to watch who else would make it from Dover, Billericay, Bromley and Wrexham.

Of the teams we could possibly face, Crewe had been the toughest opponents we faced all season - so I was really keen to avoid them - and we'd also failed to beat Wrexham, drawing the home game and losing away. We'd picked up positive results against all of the other sides throughout so I was optimistic if not unnerved by our inconsistencies over the latter half of the year.

Before the playoffs could get underway, the league got in touch to tell us that we'd won the consolation prizes of both Manager and Player of the Month. Yay. I joke and obviously don't mean to be an ungrateful asshat, but in the whole scheme of things these two awards will have more negative connotations than good! The fact that these were the first time we received either of these awards this year (we picked up two young player awards) speaks volumes about the quality of our overall performances this year (if not necessarily our results). Naturally the guy getting the award had to be Nicky Platt - funny how with his contract running down I haven't seen him in the 'idiot trainers' list for a while either?;

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Getting back to the playoffs, the first round kicked off with Billericay playing Bromley, and Dover taking on Wrexham - the games are now also only 1 leg as opposed to the more traditional two which makes the higher finishing teams home advantage an incredible leg-up. If you'd have asked me prior, I'd have tipped Billericay and Dover but that just proves why you shouldn't take any notice of what I say! :) 

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With the teams decided it was time for the draw; I was so preoccupied with how we might beat Crewe should we have to come up against them I hadn't realised that for finishing second I was also guaranteed a home tie. I'm not certain if it was reflected in game but the official rules suggest I couldn't have played Crewe at this point because they were also guaranteed a home tie so in essence the draw was to see which of the other 2 teams we'd both play. All four teams were visible on the draw screen so maybe something was happening under the hood, or maybe I wasn't 100% paying attention (I was kind of zooming through at this point, mind elsewhere!).

It seemed a long time since I'd had to give Billericay serious thought given their mid-season drop off, but it's a funny old game and sure enough we were paired up with our early season sparring partners. Now we'd beaten them twice this season both Home & Away which afforded me confidence, but I was also aware that both of those games were incredibly tight. Us playing at home was obviously a big advantage, but anyone who plays FM for more than 1-2 seasons will surely notice the general difference in approach that AI teams have in cup/one off games? This would actually be the first playoff fixture I've played in 19 so I was questioning myself a fair bit before the game, trying to decide whether to go with what had worked previously and attack, or whether to expect them to do the same and sit deeper & counter. It was a given for a game of this importance that I'd play on 'full game'; like many I play on 'key highlights' for the majority of the season, switching to more details during bad runs or if making serious tactical changes - I also find the extra information can be valuable in cup games too and these would certainly be no exception. In some ways it can be worse as you prolong the agony, but it's worth it as you can spot the subtle changes in flow which admittedly the ME can sometimes struggle to convey to the user on any detail level below (the shot counter I find is your otherwise best friend this year!).

The media had us pencilled in as the underdogs which was a little odd given form/respective league positions, but as we are still only a semi-pro club I guess our reputation speaks volumes?

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Heading into the game, I was a bit surprised that I didn't get any of my usual scout reports or data analysis so I decided to play slightly safer than I maybe would have previously and watch the game unfold; we were still missing our main striker so after what going back and forth on the decision I handed the starting spot to our newest potential superstar (Fraser Meaney - 21A) who - I'm delighted to say - didn't disappoint!

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The own goal (naturally - we couldn't just enjoy the game right?) made things pretty nervous late on, but despite conceding the majority of possession we were pretty comfortable and kept them at arms length. I don't enjoy playing as defensively as we did in the second half, but sometimes needs must and many an FM manager comes a cropper (myself included) by twisting when they should stick!

Absolutely delighted with the result but there were ramifications there that I wasn't aware of at the time, namely Morgan James enjoying further disciplinary issues and receiving a ban for what was his 15th yellow card in the league, ruling him - our top scorer and probably best player - out of the final, which we learned shortly after is against Crewe. Not awesome.

 

Bend it like Beckham...

Somewhat irritatingly, the final was scheduled 2.5 weeks after the semi-final, which to most teams would be great news - anyone (and i suspect that will mean almost everyone reading this!) who's ever managed a semi-pro team though will realise that match sharpness can (and often does) drop like a stone between games so I was (quite rightly as it turned out) concerned. As mentioned, we received confirmation through about Morgan James' suspension, meaning we were missing two of our best MC's for the game, Nicky Platt also banned for the game for his sending off 2 games back;

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In the build up to the game, Leon Wilson (20H) underwent one of those 'life changing events', with our HoyD telling me his determination had improved overnight - sadly I think at just 2 stars potential his future may already lie elsewhere, but the stat increase is not to be sniffed at & moved him up to 15 which means I'll happily keep him around a bit longer and see how he gets on - he did play two games earlier this season during an injury crisis and did ok after all?

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As the game drew closer I asked myself the question that I'm sure many of you have asked over the years, "do we really want to get promoted this year?", the logic being that maybe it's better to wait a few years until better prepared etc. I've asked myself that question a lot over the years when playing and I always come to the same conclusion that if it's on offer, you take it as who knows if you'll get the chance again? By and large when playing the game your squad will generally improve, but in a challenge like this or other similarly restricted saves there's no guarantees, and it may even take 4-5 season which is an awfully large amount of hours to play/spend wondering what could have been; going up may mean a pummelling every week but if you can survive, then things can get just that little bit easier, inch by inch, with increased funds/potentially facilities.

Having been promoted last year and finding myself challenging again this year you'd be forgiven for asking why I'd even be thinking like that; it's not so much pessimism, more this feeling of 'no control' in this save as I'm completely at the mercy of the FM gods as to who I get to play with. Whereas in any lower divisions it can be tricky, with full transfers it's possible (although far from guaranteed of course) to overachieve, and do so relatively quickly too, here there's a natural progression that no matter how tactically able or astute the manager, you're unable to completely ignore; signing 16 players/abusing the loan market and giving yourself a big CA/PA bump isn't possible here so even though we've made a great start, there's a CA ceiling heading our way fast, and seeing us struggle against the more capable teams in this division then I expect we'll hit it very soon, not to mention that for the most part I'm not sure the quality gap is all that big between the Vanarama North/South, more that you face a lottery as to which 'relegated/clearly above other sides' teams you find yourself up against? Go back a few posts and compare Leyton Orients leading scorer attributes to my starting STC and you'll clearly see what I mean (my own coaches label our guy as a 'decent backup' to hammer the point home!

With the game coming up fast, thankfully we did get some scouting reports in and to no great surprise they were expected to line up in the same manner they had when beating me previously. 

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I hate playing defensively and I'm not too fond of changing formation for the start of a game either, but doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of... ignorance? Impotence? I don't know, something like that, irrespective, having tried and failed with my regular approach this year it was clear I needed to do something a little different. Ability wise they're clearly above me, as proven in-game and just by looking at their players in general. I suspect a large part of my problems when playing them is the presence of their high quality DM shutting down my MC's (specifically the more attacking of the two). As my main guy was suspended for this game then perhaps it was a good time to change that role down a little and focus on their apparent weakness (and admittedly strength) to crosses and push my wide midfielders just a little further forward, or even change their role to wingers and make them just a little more attack minded, exploiting the flanks instead of coming up against a superior quality brick wall in the centre? Irrespective, if any game was made for regroup and counter then this was it, I also think reducing our FB's mentality, playing a little narrower and defending a little deeper may help us keep the ball out of our net - it may have reduced our chances of scoring too, but we need to still be in the game towards the latter stages rather than leaking an early goal and leaving ourselves open as we press for an equaliser etc. (NB:My use of tense is/may be all over the place in this post, I started writing it before the games, then decided to play the first one, then thought I'd wait and blah blah blah - basically I changed my min fifty times so it's a combination of planning AND reflection!) :D 

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So what happened next...?

Well the game was a disappointingly drab affair, largely down to me and my negative approach. One thing in our favour playing like that is that we were able to keep the ball very well. When I've tried that in league games I've often found we've been kicked off the ball, largely as a result - I expect - of hard tackling and what I believe in this year's ME to be tackling that's just a little too effective (look at your individual player tackling stats each game as opposed to the overall average and you'll see what i mean)? Irrespective, chances were few and far between with just three shots on target the entire game;

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If you're struggling to work out who won from that, don't worry, so were the supporters who woke up when the referee blew his final whistle; no extra time needed, final score;

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A single free kick from one of my favourite, most underrated players was enough to win the game and with it our third successive promotion (admittedly just the second with me at the helm)! Now, we're really going to be up against it - time to start nagging the board about making some investments!

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Great results in the playoffs! Good luck in the big boys league!

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Now that you made the "League" will you go Professional?

I think in terms of training and match sharpness Vanarama is as far as a Semi-Professional team can compete.

Also It will allow you to keep your better players.

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7 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Hey @optimusprimal82

First of all apologies. I used to get round all of the Youth Development threads pretty regularly but it seems I don't even have time for reading anymore. 

I loved your opening post. :applause:

The 1 bit of feedback I would give you is about the above though. 

I don't really agree with your conclusions regarding the different types of personality, but I think you touch on it in the description under "average" - "may be significantly flawed". If they are significantly flawed, then I'm sure you would agree that they are in the avoid bracket rather than the average bracket. 

I also don't agree with some of the descriptions you suggest are "highly desirable" and that you would "sign without worry". I fear you may have to change your thinking somewhat with regards to this type of challenge. If you are doing the Youth Challenge properly, (and I have no reason to doubt that), then there is absolutely no question of not signing your highest potential player from an intake just because he has a poor personality, (even an awful personality). You don't have the ability to get players from elsewhere so your hands are tied. You need to suck it up and hope beyond hope that on Youth Intake Day each season you don't see the words Casual, or Slack beside your best players. 

I'm not going to go through all the personalities one by one, but the one I often talk about is "Balanced". People class it as a middle of the road, average, middling, standard personality simply because of the name. In fact it's nothing of the sort. It's a negative personality, (in my opinion). Forget about the name and look at what actually makes a personality as in the building blocks that re the hidden attributes? The truth is we don't know. (At least we don't know exactly what they are now, but we do know what they used to be and this acts at least as a guide). 

Balanced Pro 1-14, Det 1-14, Amb 1-14, Loy & Spo 1-14

I look at the above as a description, (ignore the word balanced), and I don't think that's average or middling at all. I think that's pretty rubbish. Forget Loyalty and Sportsmanship for a minute and even let's put Ambition to one side. Just concentrate on Pro and Det. We know that they absolutely cannot, under any circumstances be higher than  14, (remember we are assuming that the old values are still accurate here), and they could in fact be as low as 1. So the range is 1-14 which gives you an average attribute of 7-8. If you look at a player and are told that he has Pro and Det values of 7-8, (and we are calling that as an average here), then is that a "middling", "average", "standard" or "medium" personality? My personal opinion is that it absolutely isn't, it's a negative one, but you will have to make your own mind up about that. What I would say however is that things in FM are not always absolute and what I mean by that is that despite my negative opinion on the "Balanced" personality, it's possible that a player will have Pro of 14 and Det of 14 and even Amb of 14 and this would be a far more attractive proposition.

I guess what I'm saying is that you shouldn't get caught up in the names of the personalities. They can be misleading. 

It works the other way too though. You have classed "Very Ambitious" as a "highly desirable" personality and I'm wondering why? 

Very Ambitious Amb 20, Loy 1-9, Det 1-17

While "Very Ambitious" sounds good, what does it actually mean? Well, (again, using the old values which are slightly out of date). what it actually means is above. We know the Amb value, (20), and we also know that the Loyalty will be low, (but not how low), but with regards to Det for example, we don't really know much of anything. 1-17 is quite a big range and while 1 would be rubbish, 17 would be great, so it's a label that can be misleading. When I see templates like this, I wonder what the personality is that it would "pop" to if the player was Very Ambitious but his Det increased from 17, (within range), to 18, (outside range). I also wonder what would happen if the Amb value was only 19 for example or the Loyalty value was 10. 

1. If the Det value pops to 18 then Very Ambitious becomes Driven. This old template suggests that Driven is only triggered with Det of level 20, (but we know it's out of date). This also states that Amb has to be 10-20 and in this case it's just under at 9 and it's still triggering the Driven template. 

Driven Det 20, Amb 10-20

2. If the Loyalty value pops to 10 then Very Ambitious becomes Fairly Determined. (If we look at this though, there are other "triggers" here though that won't be met in all cases. The F.Det template also requires that the Sportsmanship and Pressure attributes are at certain values.  

Fairly Determined Det 15-20, Pro 1-14, Spo 5-20, Pre 1-16

3. If the Amb value drops to 19 then Very Ambitious becomes Ambitious.

Amibitous Amb 16-19, Loy 1-9, Det 1-17

In previous issues of the game, Tutoring was easy and I have had whole squads literally full of Model Pro and Resolute players. The new Mentoring system is far harder to manipulate though. I think that's more realistic though and a significant improvement. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, (much as it pains me), we need to relax a little about player personalities and to a certain degree except the players, "warts n all", for what they are. We are never going to see a whole squad full of M.Pro players again like I have had in the past, but what you can do is maybe take the really rough edge off a player just by rounding it just a little bit. 

The other thing to consider of course, (and this will be my last comment because I know I'm waffling on), is that while Ambition may be a trait that you want to see in a player, what does a high Ambition attribute actually do in the game? One of the things it does it drive the player to better himself, so if he comes through at a piddly little club such as...... Hyde Utd for example, then he might go to some lengths to get a move to a bigger club at a higher level. He will put himself before the club, (obviously depending on his Pro value). This might be fine in a normal save, but you aren't playing a normal save anymore. You are playing a Youth Only save and you can't just go out and sign a replacement. If a 1st choice player leaves because he is ambitious and wants to play at a higher level, then it is likely to leave a gaping chasm in your squad that is not easy to fill. 

Where as Ambition was previously good, maybe loyal is more what you are looking for now. 

Anyway, apologies for writing so much in response. Hope you are loving the save and good luck. :thup:

Absolutely no need to apologise and thank you for the kind words! I started this thread as something of a 'crutch' for what is my first ever 'academy only' challenge - given the restrictions, I expect(ed) there will be dark times when I can't buy a win and knowing that I'd likely lose a little motivation, I suspected having this here as a sounding board would help me get through; the fact that anyone at all has found it enjoyable/made the time to stop-by/read/reply is a very welcome bonus! :D

It's a fair cop with regard to the personality stuff; my 'traffic light' diagram was something I drew up not so much for me/experienced players, more for people new to the game - when helping out a few friends/guys over on an FM Discord I contribute to, I realised how many of (what I would consider) the basics people don't get/understand with regard to recruitment & how some people are only even mildly aware of personalities and the impact they can have? Helping them, only to discover that some of them struggle even to use proven download 'game-breaking' tactics, but wanting to get better at the game and maybe start making their own creations to only to grow confused at so many variables, constantly putting  square bricks in round peg holes and unable to fathom what exactly they were doing wrong etc? Consequently I created a few data sheets (example below - appropriately enough called 'the basics') to help with some of that, under the guidance that a lot of it is based on my own opinion, experience and is not a definitive guide.

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Admittedly looking at the examples you've mentioned I agree that including Ambitious (or any of it's very/fairly derivatives) in the desirable is maybe pushing it a touch, but I did mainly because it's such an unknown quantity (at least for me) & as it was - at the time - more of a guideline, to get them thinking more about personalities in general and some of the sites I was reading suggested (which I hate - I often find suggestions with little evidence that it's accurate) it now played a more important part in player development (secondary to professionalism & Determination). Naturally I would hate to perpetuate some dodgy information (as we all know forums can have a habit of doing) so I'll look to address it I think, but would be good to know for certain what/how much effect ambition actually has? I actually mention a few posts back (screen shot below) when looking at my first intake that of all the hidden stats, Ambition is maybe the biggest mystery/most ambiguous for me as it can be both a good and bad thing?

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As you suggest, loyalty largely crosses over/covers what I'd always understood ambition to mean within the game so either I/the sources I read have placed way too much emphasis on it, or it really is a useful stat now? Is a player that wants to win every single cup/championship in his career any more/less ambitious than the guy who wants to make as much money as possible? Not in my book, and whilst I'd always prefer the first guy, ambition wise alone it's just perhaps their motivations that are different? Perhaps looking at the the Fickle & Mercenary personality types, maybe it is the single worst of the hidden attributes (ignoring injuries/consistency etc)? If 'high ambition + low loyalty = asshat' then maybe having unambitious players with high Determination & Professionalism is the sweet spot?

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It's certainly interesting and gives much food for thought regardless...

As for the groups themselves, ideally I would maybe have had 5-6 groups but for the sake of simplicity I stuck with just 3, but absolutely as you've highlighted the middle group can definitely be dodgy. I believe the stats have changed now as you've mentioned, but I believe with the new ones (which you can read here if you've not seen this list) that the idea was that balanced is a bit more helpful because if any of the core contributing stats falls below a certain threshold (believe it's 5-6 for most of the stats) the personality should change to a negative. Now 6 for everything is still atrocious, but that's indeed why I mention the possibility of significant flaw(s) - my general advice to people when I refer them to this is that when buying players, green is good for all ages (obviously take on board your point about ambition etc though), amber is ok for 16-20 year olds (within reason) and reds are always avoid.

As for one of your first concerns, yep I'm absolutely having to just 'get on with it' as part of the challenge, you're absolutely right and I learned very quickly that I have no wiggle room whatsoever to be fussy with this lot's personalities. I may not like it but holy heck, if they can kick a ball better than the next guy then they're playing, irrespective if they sulk because the club don't get them a birthday cake! My best player/top scorer has a determination stat of 2 with this side which is normally unthinkable for me - but I'm enjoying the loss of control and the fact the save is forcing me to go against what I believe to be right/has worked so well for me for so long - obviously reading so many posts/careers here I'm already aware, but it's still reaffirmed to me 100% that my way may definitely work, but there are absolutely other approaches that can bring success, which is incredibly rewarding! :) 

Edited by optimusprimal82

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5 hours ago, XaW said:

Fraser Meaney

For me, his future would be as a midfielder. I don't see him as a striker because of the low finishing and not much of neither pace nor jumping.

Also a good midfielder, and getting two players such as those, I would at least see if a tactic with an AM is something that could be done with the rest of the squad.

Very close league! Good luck in the playoffs!

 

3 hours ago, XaW said:

Great results in the playoffs! Good luck in the big boys league!

Thank you - support has been a big help on the way and lord knows we'll need it next year, know I said that at the last promotion but i'm expecting to hit a wall next year! :D

Agree wholeheartedly about Fraser Meaney (21A) and in an ideal world I'd totally want him as an AMC/MC, but we are really (really) struggling for strikers and it's making the squad unhappy now with the majority of them complaining about a lack of depth in attack. Stephen Wells (20A) is the only other prospect of note, but his PA is only on par with my current first choice so it's a compromise I'm going to have to make for now at least, especially as we're so well stocked in MC already. In an ideal world, whilst we fight relegation etc for the next few years, I'll play this guy up front whilst other youngsters develop/we recruit more and organically we get stronger, I can begin to play more offensively & i can move him - and indeed Ged - back to their natural positions.

 

2 hours ago, Hootieleece said:

Now that you made the "League" will you go Professional?

I think in terms of training and match sharpness Vanarama is as far as a Semi-Professional team can compete.

Also It will allow you to keep your better players.

Geezus, I'd have gone professional when we got promoted last year if I'd been able - it nearly cost us the promotion this year I believe as our fitness just lagged behind and punished us around the Christmas period! I'll be back in the game shortly and rest assured it will be the first thing I ask for - I did try and blackmail persuade them into it earlier in the year but they slapped my request away and (in my head at least) laughed me out of the room! :) 

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13 minutes ago, optimusprimal82 said:

 

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Do you mind if I ask where you are getting those templates from? 

Are they new or homemade or just living somewhere where I haven't noticed them? 

No real argument with anything you have said. So much of this game is down to subjective opinion rather than cold hard facts, (because that's the way that SI want it). 

I remember that for ages I believed that as far as young player development, Pro ruled all and that Det was largely an "on-field" modifier. It turns out that I was wrong and that both Det and Amb, (and something else I think), were deemed by the powers at be to be "equally responsible for the development of young players. I thought it was wrong at the time but have since come around to that way of thinking with Det, but I must admit that I struggle to see the effects of Amb impacting in the same way as Pro & Det, and none of the experiments that I have done or seen suggest otherwise. That being said, SI make the game and not me so there is at the very least some nagging doubt there in my mind. (I can't remember what the 4th attribute was but I remember at the time thinking that it was ridiculous and must have erased it from my memory in silent protest. 

Something else I noticed, (in older versions of the game), is that "Leader" doesn't always have positive connotations. Certainly his leadership value is high, but where as this was once linked to either Pro or Det or both, now it seems to be s standalone template in which both positive and negative personalities have been "hidden" by the "Leader" template. 

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The current definition doesn't suggest any negative connotations, so either I am wrong or it has changed since I saw it last. 

I went looking in the manual earlier while replying to your post and noticed the updated definition of Determination. 

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This is significantly different to the very much on-pitch definition that used to be given.

For me personally, I think of Pro and Det as working in tandem in the same way that I used to think that Pro worked, and despite the fact that I know SI have stared that Amb is on an equal footing, It trails long behind in importance to me.  

 

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5 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Do you mind if I ask where you are getting those templates from? 

Are they new or homemade or just living somewhere where I haven't noticed them? 

No real argument with anything you have said. So much of this game is down to subjective opinion rather than cold hard facts, (because that's the way that SI want it). 

I remember that for ages I believed that as far as young player development, Pro ruled all and that Det was largely an "on-field" modifier. It turns out that I was wrong and that both Det and Amb, (and something else I think), were deemed by the powers at be to be "equally responsible for the development of young players. I thought it was wrong at the time but have since come around to that way of thinking with Det, but I must admit that I struggle to see the effects of Amb impacting in the same way as Pro & Det, and none of the experiments that I have done or seen suggest otherwise. That being said, SI make the game and not me so there is at the very least some nagging doubt there in my mind. (I can't remember what the 4th attribute was but I remember at the time thinking that it was ridiculous and must have erased it from my memory in silent protest. 

Something else I noticed, (in older versions of the game), is that "Leader" doesn't always have positive connotations. Certainly his leadership value is high, but where as this was once linked to either Pro or Det or both, now it seems to be s standalone template in which both positive and negative personalities have been "hidden" by the "Leader" template. 

620e79a77fd97ee078e08c58eb23168d.png

The current definition doesn't suggest any negative connotations, so either I am wrong or it has changed since I saw it last. 

I went looking in the manual earlier while replying to your post and noticed the updated definition of Determination. 

ab64314d30d0e5174851b2531d5375d5.png

This is significantly different to the very much on-pitch definition that used to be given.

For me personally, I think of Pro and Det as working in tandem in the same way that I used to think that Pro worked, and despite the fact that I know SI have stared that Amb is on an equal footing, It trails long behind in importance to me.  

 

Apologies, I put the link in my last post but realise that hyperlinks are coloured so darkly on these forums that they're difficult to spot -  I should have made it clearer but you can see the full list here, some helpful soul posted it in GD a few months back; it even has the media handling style's which is how I've determined some of the professionalism levels of my guys (obviously no idea of the value, just that as a lot of them are 'level headed' then they should be >13 which is reasonable enough - 14 has always been my 'low sweet spot' with mental stats). I am led to believe from the original thread that he tested these fully but I'll attach my usual healthy dollop of 'it doesn't come from SI so beware' sauce to it just to be safe, hate to give anyone a bad steer!

I hadn't realised that SI had actually ever confirmed ambition played a big part, but it makes sense as there were three different sites all listing ambitious personalities as favourable - I did the naughty sheep thing of believing it because it was consistently captured but it's reassuring to know for (sort of) sure? Although like you, I've never really paid it much attention and have done just fine using Prof & Determination over the years? I guess if model citizen has high ambition then it's good enough for me, but also interesting to note it has the lowest base threshold of all of the contributing stats so possibly the least important? Pure conjecture at this point now anyway I guess, and the proof of the pudding and all that!

There have definitely been tweaks to determination over the years but i've not always been across the changes myself; I had one of those random in-game events on my previous save where the players determination dropped by 10 overnight, when discussing it on the Discord chat someone suggested

"That has been in since last years FM when they made determination less important to development. It can now go up as well as down. Those messages tell you when they do. Not like pre FM18 when it was fixed and essential to development" 

When pushed for an elaboration/reference, none was sadly forthcoming which had me scratching my head for a bit as I don't ever remember seeing anything suggesting it was less important, but it would potentially go along with your thinking that Prof was the key stat? I touch on it in another of my posts here that I always thought Professionalism was the most responsible stat for a players training performance, yet I have a guy who's always 'in the red' yet has a media style of 'level headed' and has professionalism listed as one of his strengths under coach report. His determination however is dreadful at just 2 (yes, two!) so Determination (or perhaps ambition? or both?) must also play a part?

It's definitely a tricky area because the more they document about it, the easier it becomes, but I certainly think at times the ambiguity can be unhelpful, particularly when effect/meaning can/may change under the hood and the only real way we have of becoming aware is the occasional tooltip? I know the last thing people want to hear when they're asking you for help is "i think" but again, for the most part what I do know/assume/understand seems to work pretty well - as it clearly does for you - so I take small comfort knowing I'm (probably) more right than wrong? :D 

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3 minutes ago, optimusprimal82 said:

I know the last thing people want to hear when they're asking you for help is "i think" but again, for the most part what I do know/assume/understand seems to work pretty well - as it clearly does for you - so I take small comfort knowing I'm (probably) more right than wrong? :D 

I think this is one of the most important things to remember with regards to the internet in general, (and particularly across the political landscape at the moment), that just because someone prepares a nice pretty blog or a colourful leaflet, doesn't make it any more true than something scrawled in poo on the back of a toilet door. People believe what is written, especially if it is well -presented and I think it's important to differentiate between what we think and what we know.

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I enjoy reading how different people play the game , my way of playing is pretty basic , even playing basic its very easy to win everything in the game though , but once you win everything it can get boring , so i tend to read pages like this because they are so interesting , i'm currently giving Optimusprimals way of playing a go because its so well written and gives me something else to to think about when buying and picking players 

 

If there are any Newbies out there or wanting a different way of playing the game during matches i can very highly recommend using his mentality guide :

 

 

MentalityMasterplan.png.a321ac930449a091645ac890a2635956.png

Edited by coolestrock

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