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Torminator

Playing less talented players over High rated ones

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Hi all,

I currently have a striker which, according to my scouts, is a world beater and awesome player 4 out of 5 stars already yellow and the 5th star is black to improve to (still only 20 years old, worth 50ish million already). His stats look absolutely insane! I also have a striker which i picked up in the early years of my save for about 750K with 3 yellow stars and no further potential.  Bother players have the postiive trait about being constant. And the cheaper player dislikes big matches.

The issue i have is that the less talented player keeps consistently banging them in while the awesome new ronaldo guy often does not show up. However, for some reason I have issues with playing the cheaper player over the talented one hoping that for some reason the more talented player will start scoring more.

 

Do you guys also have issues with playing less talented players over more expensive higher rated players eventhough they perform better? Probably some silly issue i have but it really takes all my will to select the more effective player over the better one (stats wise).

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Does the lower rated player fit better into your tactics than the higher player?

Having talent doesn't count for much if youre playing tactics that don't suit their style of play. Morale also has an effect

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Nope, i've got the same exact thing and i play 'Sir goals a lot' - I'll take form any day of the week over a coach report!

Might be hidden stats on the lesser starred guy are better or something - don't know, don't care, when it comes to the big games, the guy who scores 20+ goals a season gets in, not Mr-4-stars :D

I've actually start playing them together regularly for the first time this season and it's been fun so far!!

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@optimusprimal82 Why don't you post screenshots of both players, your tactics and the role that they play and see if the forum can help?  The game is full of players who fit in to formations and roles better than others, think Pogba as a Mourinho player and as a Solskjaer player - they are night and day.  I'd always go with players that work for you rather than what a scout says...Like the games says - you're the boss!

Edited by Geordieboy52

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You are all certainly welcome to see them! :D 

This is the 'lesser' of my two guys - signed for an amazing 450k! Goals dried up a little second half of last season as we came to grips with 19.3.0 & he's been injured for the majority of the current (13 games in) but he's already back in the groove with my new system;

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And his partner in crime - he was a bit more pricey at 12.25 million! He's come to life a lot more this season now I've changed up to 2 strikers, just wouldn't put my house on him in a 1v1 like my other guy - he tends to score more hat tricks/multiples whereas the other guy is a ultra-consistent beast (both are noted as consistent performers in their coach report btw, one of my pre-reqs along with personality)! Part of the issue with this guy in the last couple of years is I think his insistence on dribbling/coming deep due to his traits (something I'm still working to get rid of);

image.thumb.png.b60bff1ffdeaf491418e88d6cb54f845.png

image.thumb.png.6a8366b11003556b02be1b8244632617.png

 

Stand by my original point, I'll always always play a player in form/based on past form over one rated higher - attributes and CA only tell half of the story (but also doesn't mean i won't persevere with a guy to get him to fit!) :)

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I would have rated them quite similar in ability, only looking at those attribute pages, @optimusprimal82. Both also described as an "elite striker". Being left footed only would put me off though, if I have to choose between the two and especially if I'm running a lone ST formation. It's less of an issue in a 2 man setup, imo.

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Being better at the weak foot is definitely a huge advantage in the ST position as the striker will often find himself in tight spaces and limited time to put in a shot

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1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

I would have rated them quite similar in ability, only looking at those attribute pages, @optimusprimal82. Both also described as an "elite striker". Being left footed only would put me off though, if I have to choose between the two and especially if I'm running a lone ST formation. It's less of an issue in a 2 man setup, imo.

It's odd you say that, I've also got a massive preference for right footers over left when it comes to strikers and FM19 - at least in my save - is the first FM where I've noticed that there is an abundance of left footers too - most of the MC's I come across are lefties?!? :D Obviously being good with both is the holy grail but yep, for a single STC I often choose right, on the odd occasion I use an asym setup I even build it around that! 

They are both currently very similar my two strikers - attributes wise i'd say the second gut (scores less) just shades it but the other guy is more prolific for sure. For 'quick pick' the second guy always gets chosen, it's no contest, and the kicker too is they reckon he'll get another star better whereas they think the other guy is at max potential. Compared to the guys I had in my first season (Vanarama North) I guess it's a nice luxury, although being a sentimental old fool I do still have the first striker I signed on my books (albeit he's out on loan) - think you can see why he doesn't get a game now;

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33 minutes ago, optimusprimal82 said:

It's odd you say that, I've also got a massive preference for right footers over left when it comes to strikers

I do not think it is a question of left vs right. It is the fact that the second guy you showed cannot use his right foot at all, whilst the first guy, while preferring his right, can use his left at a pinch. It means in a lone striker formation he will almost always try to do everything with his left foot. This can be a problem if he is consistently doing the wrong thing because he wants to use the left foot. He would not be good at receiving through balls from his right, for instance, as he would want the ball to come across his body and strike with the left, whereas it would be better to hit it with the right. Two footed strikers are great for lone striker positions (if you can find them) because they can really show variation with what they do in the box.

With situations where one player is not performing, I will just go with the guy who is playing best. It does not matter to me if he is rated worse - although I echo the opinion there is not much between these two players. If I have a player really struggling for form, I will give him a bit of reserve football. Get the confidence up, get him scoring some goals, get the form going, and then reintroduce him to the first team squad.

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They're both similar ability with their favourite foot (though the first guy is better at beating an opponent, and the second better at finishing) but the first guy is considerably better when he has to use his weaker foot, which is likely to be quite a lot if he's a lone striker in the Premier League.

You're probably also right about the PPMs - comes deep to get the ball and runs with ball often is going to make a very exciting player but less of an out and out goalscorer

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I had similiar problem Rodrigo who is real player 32y.o. in game now and Adrian (newgen) who is 19.

 

Both playing as Pressing Forward sometimes i try to set change position with the other if I can't score.

 

Tactic mirrored 2xBBM, 2x IW same duty etc 2xBPD, 2x CWB same duty each side etc and Rodrigo is scoring more than twice more goals

rodrigo stats.jpg

rodrigo stats 1.jpg

rodrigo stats 2.jpg

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I had the same issue. I ended up selling the 'better' one because he wasn't producing.

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6 hours ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

I had similiar problem Rodrigo who is real player 32y.o. in game now and Adrian (newgen) who is 19.

 

Both playing as Pressing Forward sometimes i try to set change position with the other if I can't score.

 

Tactic mirrored 2xBBM, 2x IW same duty etc 2xBPD, 2x CWB same duty each side etc and Rodrigo is scoring more than twice more goals

 

Really not enough information there, but I would guess Adrian is inconsistent. Just looking at the attributes, there's not much between them unless your system produces more chances that suits one foot more than the other.

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Traits probably playing a big role. Scoring player seems to have a strength and dribbling advantage. Are any of these useful to your striker's role in the team? 

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On ‎21‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 21:58, LukasZ_VCF said:

I had similiar problem Rodrigo who is real player 32y.o. in game now and Adrian (newgen) who is 19.

 

Both playing as Pressing Forward sometimes i try to set change position with the other if I can't score.

 

Tactic mirrored 2xBBM, 2x IW same duty etc 2xBPD, 2x CWB same duty each side etc and Rodrigo is scoring more than twice more goals

rodrigo stats.jpg

rodrigo stats 1.jpg

rodrigo stats 2.jpg

How many goals does Rodrigo score as the results of headers? 

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IHaving the same issue with Juventus. I play Ronaldo on my left so Higuain and Mandzukic are my two strikers. Despite having better stats Higuain always struggled to perform. I know he doesn't like big matches thus I only play him against weaker opponents in the league. However after 10 games he had no goals or assists and a lower than team average rating. Since Mandzukic was a lot more productive  Higuain was left on bench. Then he came complaining. Any solutions to this?

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Is it me, or in FM19 strikers (especially in 1-striker formations) are really erratic, almost no matter what?

I've rotated through at least a dozen strikers over a few seasons, without having found a reliable one. Some games it's a hat-trick and a great performance, then it's a 5-games drought with a SoG ratio of 30%.

Maybe consistency is low for many of those strikers, but they feel completely out of the game more than just having a night off.

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On 22/02/2019 at 05:55, HUNT3R said:

Really not enough information there, but I would guess Adrian is inconsistent. Just looking at the attributes, there's not much between them unless your system produces more chances that suits one foot more than the other.

I checked and...

Rodrigo: 10 &10 form stability and important matches

Adrian : 17 form stability 12 important matches ...

 

 

Don't know where to find how they scored goals by head

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I tend to know players score headers by watching the highlights, but there doesn't seem to be an aggregate season stat for individual players 

you can see if your team as a whole is scoring headers by going to the "analysis" section of the tactics screen and selecting "goal types", and you can see if players individually are winning many of their headers on lots of different screens.

Either way, it's quite obvious that a striker with a jumping of 14 should be able to outjump a lot of defenders and a striker with a jumping of 9 won't.

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On 24/02/2019 at 05:52, RBKalle said:

Is it me, or in FM19 strikers (especially in 1-striker formations) are really erratic, almost no matter what?

I've rotated through at least a dozen strikers over a few seasons, without having found a reliable one. Some games it's a hat-trick and a great performance, then it's a 5-games drought with a SoG ratio of 30%.

Maybe consistency is low for many of those strikers, but they feel completely out of the game more than just having a night off.

Dead on.  After getting consistent 6.4 ratings for about 8-10 strikers (with every post game analysis saying they didn't factor in the game), I broke the bank, courted an absolute stud and landed him.  Outside of penalty kicks, guy never scores and regularly gets 6.4s just like every high or low skilled striker before him.  I use 3 different formations and none of them give me decent ratings for my strikers.  I think this game engine just doesn't know how to include them.

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2 hours ago, chemik said:

Dead on.  After getting consistent 6.4 ratings for about 8-10 strikers (with every post game analysis saying they didn't factor in the game), I broke the bank, courted an absolute stud and landed him.  Outside of penalty kicks, guy never scores and regularly gets 6.4s just like every high or low skilled striker before him.  I use 3 different formations and none of them give me decent ratings for my strikers.  I think this game engine just doesn't know how to include them.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with the match engine, it is most definitely the players or your tactics. 

I’ve been bouncing around the lower leagues and failed to win promotion despite coming close a few times. I’ve almost always been let down by not having a striker on form, as all my goals have come from the wingers or midfielders. But at my current club my striker has almost banged in 30 goals as I’ve found his strengths and built a formation around him. It can happen but it’s hard. Unfortunately in every league there’s only 3/4 players who are good enough to consistently score throughout a whole season, and that’s reflected in FM.

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There is something influencing the behaviour - or more importantly - the prolificacy of strikers and as it's so difficult to pin down I'm surmising it's (unsurprisingly) a combination of all things (tactics/form/morale/attributes)...!

The two guys I posted right at the top of this very thread have both had great seasons - statistically and otherwise - the anomaly is that whilst both are classed as Elite Strikers, the game classes the second guy as a better player in pretty much every single way;

  • Higher CA stars (they were pretty much level previously)
  • Additional PA star (first guy is close to/at max, second guy can still improve a little apparently)
  • Second guy is always, always selected if I use Quick Pick with any type of STC role
  • First guy's value is 60 million, second's is 71
  • The attributes most noted for strikers are all higher/almost equal

Thing is, I don't agree with the game or my ass man for the very real reason that - attributes be damned - the first guy is just consistently (and they're both noted as being consistent performers) better at putting the ball into the net with '1 chance = 1 goal' being the norm as opposed to my other guy - who is still a great striker - needing 3-4! To be fair to Mr 2nd, he's a tiny bit younger & now he's playing regularly as part of a 2, he's performing and scoring much better, but he is still more of a '3 goals in a game & then nothing for 2' kind of player which against super stodgy defense's can be something of a hinderance!

 

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Those are the full comparisons - based on the information the game gives me the few main possibilities I have are

Players preferred foot - both guys are classed as 'weak' with their secondary foot, but the 'better' players one-footedness is highlighted as a negative in his report suggesting the more prolific guy is better there, possibly helping him with chances either side as a lone striker (as someone suggested already above)

Traits - the 'better' guy has quite a few, including 'comes deep to get ball' & 'moves into channels'; I've long since suspected these are counter productive for him as a lone frontman but getting rid has proved impossible - ironically they're now likely helping him as part of a two pronged attack!

Hidden attributes - always the murky grey area! Neither are mentioned as struggling under pressure or important games, but given his personality type is 'Fairly Determined' and Media Handling style is 'Level Headed' - neither of which have any value associated with Pressure attached (see below) then the stat may not be terrible but it may be just average? He wasn't prolific when we weren't title chasing though and I'd expect to have spotted an issue with body language in-game too if this was a thing;

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All that aside, they are both great strikers and it feels churlish to complain, I can just empathise with the feeling of thinking you have every box ticked but the player doesn't quite live up to expectations and you can't fully put your finger on why! Seems history is set to repeat itself too - after switching to 2 strikers I brought in two younger guys for rotation/backup, both great prospects but the lesser of the two has hit an incredible 20 goals (so only 3 less than either of the main two plus 7 assists!) despite having worse attributes and being rated at 2.5 stars CA as opposed to the 3 star CA/5 star PA who's scored just 4. Both are classed as wonderkids (but let's face it, this far in who isn't? Every team seems to have 3-4 of them!) and rated very similar, same as the other two, just the guy - again - with slightly worse stats overall is a machine... Very odd, but also that's football (remember Forlan!?) :)

Edited by optimusprimal82

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23 hours ago, chemik said:

Dead on.  After getting consistent 6.4 ratings for about 8-10 strikers (with every post game analysis saying they didn't factor in the game), I broke the bank, courted an absolute stud and landed him.  Outside of penalty kicks, guy never scores and regularly gets 6.4s just like every high or low skilled striker before him.  I use 3 different formations and none of them give me decent ratings for my strikers.  I think this game engine just doesn't know how to include them.

Ok, forget everything I wrote.  After typing this yesterday, I played 4 games and my stud striker scored 7 goals and consistently rated very well.  Not sure what happened overnight but I'll take it.

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On ‎24‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 10:52, RBKalle said:

Is it me, or in FM19 strikers (especially in 1-striker formations) are really erratic, almost no matter what?

I've rotated through at least a dozen strikers over a few seasons, without having found a reliable one. Some games it's a hat-trick and a great performance, then it's a 5-games drought with a SoG ratio of 30%.

Maybe consistency is low for many of those strikers, but they feel completely out of the game more than just having a night off.

I've heard this but have always had high scoring strikers in single striker formations in FM19.

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Am ‎21‎.‎02‎.‎2019 um 23:14 schrieb Deisler26:

I had the same issue. I ended up selling the 'better' one because he wasn't producing.

I had a game wher eno matter what striker i used i just couldnt get them to score , i had a whos-who of top strikers and couldnt get any of them to score whatsoever. I remember getting a top striker of Leverkusen (Volland, dont remember for 7 Million and having to sell him on for 8 Million because he jsut couldnt hit the braod side of a barn. I thought the solo striker System in FM 19 was broken beyond repair.Then stumbled upon a 32 year old cast-off Mariano and he suddenly netted like 30 goals for me out of the blue. What i learned is especially the stirker in a solo formation in this game really needs to fit the system. Cant say thgouh what the deciding factors really  are.

Edited by GerdMuller

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On 27/02/2019 at 14:44, chemik said:

Ok, forget everything I wrote.  After typing this yesterday, I played 4 games and my stud striker scored 7 goals and consistently rated very well.  Not sure what happened overnight but I'll take it.

Funnily enough, after I responded disagreeing with what you said my striker completely stopped scoring and I’ve ballsed up a 7 point lead at the top! Playoffs it is :D

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On 21/02/2019 at 07:48, Torminator said:

Hi all,

I currently have a striker which, according to my scouts, is a world beater and awesome player 4 out of 5 stars already yellow and the 5th star is black to improve to (still only 20 years old, worth 50ish million already). His stats look absolutely insane! I also have a striker which i picked up in the early years of my save for about 750K with 3 yellow stars and no further potential.  Bother players have the postiive trait about being constant. And the cheaper player dislikes big matches.

The issue i have is that the less talented player keeps consistently banging them in while the awesome new ronaldo guy often does not show up. However, for some reason I have issues with playing the cheaper player over the talented one hoping that for some reason the more talented player will start scoring more.

 

Do you guys also have issues with playing less talented players over more expensive higher rated players eventhough they perform better? Probably some silly issue i have but it really takes all my will to select the more effective player over the better one (stats wise).

It's never as simple as "who has the higher star rating", "who has the most expensive value" or even "who has the best current form".

There are many many things that need to be taken into account when choosing a starting XI for any particular match.

 

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