Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '09

[Jay1992]

I used to know but I forgot, how do the sliders work with the tactics?

Is the slider on the far left = 1 or = 0?

[Millie]

Four posts up.

[Jay1992]

Four posts up.

Oh haha, didn't see that, thanks for pointing that out!

[AcidBurn]

I have two quick skillful strikers in my 4-4-2, the wingers are the next most attacking but have cross ball rarely. They have alot of through balls played from the MCa and the MCd aswell as the two wingers, would it be best to have a high defensive line or a low one to try and create the space for them two to run into? Would it be of any benefit to have one set to run onto ball targetman or ball to feet?

The players are Rossi and Bojan.

[Adrian]

I have two quick skillful strikers in my 4-4-2, the wingers are the next most attacking but have cross ball rarely. They have alot of through balls played from the MCa and the MCd aswell as the two wingers, would it be best to have a high defensive line or a low one to try and create the space for them two to run into? Would it be of any benefit to have one set to run onto ball targetman or ball to feet?

The players are Rossi and Bojan.

For a 2-man strike partnership,I find that having a Run Onto ball target man isn't the best option.A fast target man works with lone striker formations

One option is to use a target man with supply 'To Feet':

For example Rossi:

no FwR

RwB often

LS rarely

TTB often

Cross ball often/from byline

Cross aim:Far post

And the most important: HUB and high CF.Obviously a lower mentality

Also,use Free Roles wisely.It can transform your play dramaticaly

[NSF]

Hi everyone. I've been playing every version of CM/FM since 1999, but truth is I never had much patience for experimenting/tweaking tactics in my games. In older versions it was easier, but as time passed I just gave up wasting too much time with it, and would just implement some of my ideas in my tactics by sliding 3 or 4 bars and not touching the others. Eventually (and waiting for some time for the tactics to get inside my player's) I woud get it right, and would just use that tactic for long times, sliding the team mentality bar defensive/offensive according to the game, or ticking counter-attack, or trying some other superficial stuff like that.

So this week I started playing FM 2009, and started a brazilian season with Flamengo. After I got 24 wins, 2 draws and no losses playing the weak competitions of the season's first half, using some random tactic I liked, I just realized I had no idea what I was doing in the tactics screen, and how pathetic I was, after all these years.

I then came to this forum, and looked for some topics about tactics. Having spent half of my workday reading posts here, and studying every page of the TTF manual, I just thought: "now I get the hang of it, it's time to play for real". So I lost miserably 1-0 to Santos, my first defeat in the year, with my team creating only a few chances and Santos scoring a late goal after going 4-2-4 (just when I thought I woud crush them by using my defensive, counter-attacking formation). Things didnt't go well in the next games too, with my team underperforming even in home games (didn't lose at home, though).

So I want to ask some questions (if this is the right place):

When setting a new tactic, and assuming it is supposed to work well (not saying mine is), how much time does it usually take for your players to learn and get used to it? Is it important to have good tactics training coaches? In older versions I know it took some time until a tactic started working right, but i dont know much about this adaptation curve (not even if it is real). The game I started now doesn't count for this, because the teams i face in state championships with Flamengo are just pitiful.

I'm playing a 4-4-2 (the same dot's layout I was using before), with a defensive line of 4, 2 MCS, a AML and a AMR in front of them and 2 strikers. I set mentality according to bands of two, and usually play with offensive wingers, FB's support/attack (when tactics is not defensive), one striker more up front and one in the right closer to midfield). I have Adriano as CFa in very good form (til the changes), good wingers (even though not all good crossers), and a good team, in general, for the brazilian league (haven't evaluated all the right stats for all the players to work with my tactics yet, but it's a good team overall). I can give more details if anyone wants to know, but my question is: how hard can it be for me to make this formation work, considering the use of wingers is not usual for brazilian teams? Can it be I'm going too far away from my country's footballing culture by playing wingers alongside offensive FB's? Also, what others changes can I make to adapt the tactics for Brazilian leagues, besides lowering tempo and width (it's too hot here)?

How best can I play (especially in defence) against brazilian 4-4-2 tactics (classic brazilian style uses 2 DM's and 2 CM's, forming a square in midfield, and FB's running forward)?

I'll ask much more, but I wrote too much already. Thanks for wwfan and Millie for the great work, and everyone posting here for helping me understand all this s*** I never cared for before (I only got the time to read like 2-3 pages, but whatever).

Thanks in advance.

[Jamie543]

Been reading this guide followed a few tips etc and tried using some tactics which has so far yielded me a 4-1 lose to tottenham and a game im going to get batterd by aston villa which i refuse to play as i know whats coming and not a thing i do can stop it. Im so frustrated with this game now i completed a whole season which was great and the 2nd season starts i struggle for wins drawing 4 games on the trot against teams i should be winning against but i still manage to get my self to 6 and now all the sudden i get lots of injuries in games. I get around 3 knocks pern game maybe more and at least 1 players go out injured after 2 games. I also notice the AI tends to tar into my players if im winning and they seem to just get away with breaking my players arms legs etc without a card the injuries only seem to occur if im winning

[saab693]

Hi gents (and ladies where applicable!)

I'm going to build a set of tactics using the bible and would like to go through it with you guys as I go along. I'm hoping this will ensure my approach is correct and may also help others who find the whole 50 page document a bit too much to take in!

By way of background, I am playing with FC United in the Blue Square Premier.

I have started at the beginning of the document and have reached page 13 - mentality frameworks and management style.

Having reviewed the comments on Authoritarian v Libertarian manager styles, I'm of the opinion that my side does not possess the creative nouse to pull off one of the Libertarian approaches and as such I shall choose a more Authoritarian method. The perfect fit seems to be Rule of One, where we are told that Martin O'Neill has achieved success with limited talent by limiting creativity.

Would everyone agree that this is the most suitable fit?

Just one query, on page 12, we are told that Libertarian methods can work with players operating at "the higher end of the divisional level." Are we interpret this as players who are excellent within the BSP, or players who can compete in the Premiership?

Thanks for any input

saab693

[drevil1969]

saabo i would like to see what you come up with, i tried using the simpler ttf but found myself confused and alot of my tactics had conflicts, even tho i read the thing a few times. I Tried doing a RoO as i say but i just could not totally understand it fully. Im desperate to make my own tactics as its not the same using someone elses and im finding fm a bit boring now.

[hhage]

Hi.

I tried searching, but without success.

Hope it haven't been posted too many times before...

I have used "TT&F Wizard.xlsx"

Formation: 4-4-2

Variant: Standard

Framework: 2-6-2 Theory

I get these values:

Position Role Mentality

GK Defend 8

DR Support 10

DL Support 10

DC Defend 8

DC Defend 8

MR Attack 11

ML Attack 11

MC Defend 10

MC Support 12

FC Support 15

FC Attack 11

But I read in the Crip Sheet that 2-6-2 have these values:

Position 2-6-2 Theory

GK 8

DC 8

FB 11

MCd 11

ML/R 11

MCa 14

FCd 11

FCa 14

Now I'm unsure what to think.

Can anyone elaborate please?

[LEEMOD]

I wonder how these theories can be used in FM16?

I wonder if someone could explain for me how you would create different mentality settings?

It's just hard to understand when we have Fluid -Structured?

How would you differ them between players, just via duty?

[herne79]

Leemod, I know you have been pinging around recently trying to decide how to get into FM16, but necroing a seven year old thread that extends for well over 1000 posts and asking someone to translate it into FM16 for you is a bit much.

There are plenty of sticky guides at the top of the forum for you to get your teeth into.

[LEEMOD]

Huh?

I searched for it and found it, I am just wondering how stuff like 'rule of one' etc could be implemented, if it even can?

Is there a problem with me asking? Like I said, I found a copy of it and read through it and it made sense, especially things like passing settings in various set ups which I haven't seen covered. 7 years of 7 minutes I would have asked about it anyway. I'm not sure what the issue is with me asking?

For example, it got me thinking to the TC we're faced with today and got me thinking:

1) In attacking systems do you think it's best to place defenders on short passing and attackers on more direct passing?

2) Vice versa, is the opposite true for defensive systems?

Also, are direct passes more direct in attacking systems than they are in defensive systems or is a direct pass the same no matter what?

Apologies for asking but I thought that's what this forum was for? It got me thinking because it helps me to see it clearer especially things like how to set up duty in various settings, for example they say that in an attacking system your duties ought to be 3 defend / 2 support / 5 attack

Does this kind of theory still ring true for FM?

[Rashidi]

This is pre-tactical creator and out of date.

[LEEMOD]

Ok no worries, it just piqued my interest.

Would you say that passing frameworks can still work?

If so, how would you implement them? I read somewhere for your WBA side in FM15 you had the wingbacks on direct passes as you wanted to bypass the midfield.

I think what I found easier to understand was the defend/support/attack distribution within certain frameworks, it helped paint a picture in my head when setting up my own tactics (or my lame attempt at one).

In your view Rashidi - what would be the defend/support/attack distribution in say a defensive mentality compared to say a control or attacking one or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Rashidi]

You are on the wrong planet

[herne79]

You're right, this forum is for discussion and asking questions.

But nobody is going to answer questions or have discussion about something that is over 7 years old and, as Rashidi points out, "is out of date".

LEEMOD - you're distracting and confusing yourself with things that you really don't need to be getting involved in.

Thread locked.