Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '09

[micro-ice]

Gnarly!!

beautiful work guys. i have managed to make my own tactics based on this guide and so fa so good.

i just wanted to ask whether you could also show us how to set up coners and free kicks aswell; cos i am increasingly failing to

take advantage of the hight coner/ freeckick count in games.

[cyrus]

Can someone reup the file? The DOWNLOAD LINK doesn't work.

Thanks

[Ryds]

Thank you so much for this. I had no idea where to start or even how to evaluate why my own tactics were so terrible. This will help me improve/enjoy my game no end!

I've printed it off, hole-punched it and put it in it's own folder, my wife thinks I'm crazy!

[Ryds]

Can someone reup the file? The DOWNLOAD LINK doesn't work.

Thanks

About halfway down either this page or the 1st there's a new link, just right click, save as.

[spirre]

2nd link is dead aswell? or am I just slow?

Would someone who already have it dl'ed upload it to for example rapidshare or megaupload or something?, would save my week

[speed0811]

All the tactic are band of two system?

How can we konw the tactic of AI?There is no arrow to see in the formation screen.

[Guest]

Incredible! This should be on a sticky on the main page! Gonna start a new game now as was growing completely frustrated with my lack of understanding of what all the tactics did! Absolutely fantastic work!

[Justified]

I think I'm going to have a whirl at the Arsene Wenger way of setting up tactics seeing as it's probably the only theory I haven't tried out yet. To test this out I think I am going to test it with Monaco, one of the Frenchie's past clubs. However I think I am going to test it with a much wider scope of mentality but not too much to create gaps.

Ok been playing around for this for a few hours to see what it could produce. So far I've come to these conclusions. In an attacking strategy it worked really well to have all bar the MCd and DC's on the attacking role. The passing was crisp, the possession is really good too. Rearding FC's I've got them both on attacking role's however I tweak the FWRD runs depending on situation. If there's space behind the opponent FWRD's Often on FCa, if not then Mixed and Rarely on FCd. Having them on the same mentality seems essential in this framework so they are close together but you can tweak the FWRD Runs to give them diffrent roles.

In a more Standard framework the groupings became more apparent because I have to balance risk and reward. The MCd is unshackled from the DC's and is part of the Support grouping but has a Defend role. The only players in the attacking mentality grouping were the FC's but the wingers joined them in the attacking roles. In this framework I did try and see which was best. Having them all on the same mentality within their grouping or stagger the Support grouping according to their roles in the team. I think staggering them worked best ut I kept the defence and attack roles in the same mentality.

Never did test a Defend strategy as I don't "believe" in going deep in eitehr D-line or roles. I'd rather stick with a standard strategy, sub on another MCd and maybe even make them into DMC's with support functions. I think inviting the opposition is like saying "Here have a go, we'll try and counter you but not until you've had a pop". No, just plain no.

[spirre]

Would someone mail it to me since none of the links work? Pm me for mailadress, thx in advance

[Casta2]

Absolutely excellent piece of work here guys, much appreciated. However I think I've noticed a slight error in the tactics wizard. The support attacker has a higher mentality than the out and out striker. I also think you may have the creative freedom and passing the wrong way round on these positions too.

Here are the settings (4-4-2 standard RoO):

FC support:

ment pass cf

15 13 10

FC attack:

ment pass cf

11 7 15

I could be wrong but from my understanding of the guide these two should be switched.

[saberhagen83]

Fantastic stuff! This should be for some very interesting reading. Never really got a tactic working on FM09, defence looks good for me (fewest conceeded in league) but my attack is shockingly bad. Cannot seem to get in front of goal much, all my goals are from headers (crosses/corners/freekicks) or from way out. Maybe this will give me a good indicator as to what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for all the time you put into this and again, fantastic stuff!

[cyrus]

Can someone please reup the link, none of the link in here works. Please post at website like Megaupload or Rapidshare. Those sites keeps popular files for quite a long time.

DOWNLOAD LINK please.

[displaced_seagull]

This really is an epic document. Following the advice, I've just tried to develop a 4-4-2 Diamond using RO2. I'll let you know how it goes

[spirre]

Feel free to ignore us who havent been able to dl it

[Justified]

FM-Britain is down atm. As soon as it comes back up you'll be able to download it

[Rashidi]

It's good to see threads like this, cos it means I have less to write retirement definitely seems to be around the corner LOL

[Los_Culés]

wwfan & Millie

guys, you are legends!!

[godzilu]

Another download link? Would it be possible?

[davehanson]

http://rapidshare.com/files/164336300/TTF_Documents_Tactics.rar.html

On rapidshare, if it doesn't work let me know. If the mods don't want this link, I am sorry, feel free to edit/delete.

[supersaint]

If anyone have trouble downloading from FM Britain, you can try downloading from here

[twattyatkins]

Quite possibly the greatest thread and work in internet history, well done to all involved and thank you

[spirre]

thx a million davehanson and supersaint, appreciate the efforts

[geol13]

Rapidshare doesn't work

[VMX]

Question:

Has this been translated to other languages, such as Spanish?

I find this document really interesting, and even though I have not yet finished reading it (haven't even reached half of it ), I think I'd like to translate it to Spanish so that other people can have access to it.

Just want to make sure that this hasn't been done yet... hehe.

Do you know if it has?

[mattbuck]

Look what tactical theorems did for my squad, didn't buy any players just used the Bristol Rovers default squad, who are a mid table side. Using Attack, for games that i am a good or heavy favourite, using standard/defensive for games i am a small favourite,evens or slight underdog. Defensive for heavy underdog or if a major underdoh shut up shop. Control for the last 10 minutes if chasing a lead (note my control is more attacking than Attack, but still involves a slow and patient aprroach with maximum width, through balls and forward runs. And shut up shop for the last 10-15 minutes of every game, unless i am winning by more than 2 goals.

What i enjoyed the most was my mean defence.

[MartinH]

All links are dead, any chance someone can upload it one last time? Would be appreciated.

[MartinH]

If anyone have trouble downloading from FM Britain, you can try downloading from here

Nevermind, this works.. thanks.

[davehanson]

uploaded to my rapidshare account now, should stay active for a while:

http://rapidshare.com/files/164360034/TTF_Documents_Tactics.rar

[geol13]

davehanson,are these the tactics that mattbuck used?

edit:wow..too many?which are the ones of mattbuck?

[mattbuck]

davehanson,are these the tactics that mattbuck used?

edit:wow..too many?which are the ones of mattbuck?

Hi, the tactics Dave posted are the TTF tactics, i created my own using the guide posted by WWF, i just started a thread with mine here if you feel like trying them out.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=64672

[geol13]

Ok mattbuck..many thanks..will try 'em and let u know at the other topic;-)

[yonko]

Ok been playing around for this for a few hours to see what it could produce. So far I've come to these conclusions. In an attacking strategy it worked really well to have all bar the MCd and DC's on the attacking role. The passing was crisp, the possession is really good too. Rearding FC's I've got them both on attacking role's however I tweak the FWRD runs depending on situation. If there's space behind the opponent FWRD's Often on FCa, if not then Mixed and Rarely on FCd. Having them on the same mentality seems essential in this framework so they are close together but you can tweak the FWRD Runs to give them diffrent roles.

In a more Standard framework the groupings became more apparent because I have to balance risk and reward. The MCd is unshackled from the DC's and is part of the Support grouping but has a Defend role. The only players in the attacking mentality grouping were the FC's but the wingers joined them in the attacking roles. In this framework I did try and see which was best. Having them all on the same mentality within their grouping or stagger the Support grouping according to their roles in the team. I think staggering them worked best ut I kept the defence and attack roles in the same mentality.

Never did test a Defend strategy as I don't "believe" in going deep in eitehr D-line or roles. I'd rather stick with a standard strategy, sub on another MCd and maybe even make them into DMC's with support functions. I think inviting the opposition is like saying "Here have a go, we'll try and counter you but not until you've had a pop". No, just plain no.

I thought Band of two was Ferguson's framework and Wenger's was called something else. So which one are you testing? I guess you are playing 4-4-2....have you experimented with 4-3-3 on any framework?

I'm using this as Standard:

GK 7

DC 7/9 (defend)

FB 10 (support)

DM 9 (defend)

MCr 11 (support)

MCl 13 (attack)

AMrl 14 (attack)

FC 12 (support)

My Attacking/Defensive tactic is +3/-3.

I'm messing around trying different set-ups and watching if the effects reflect what I what to achieve - control possession, quality chances and restriction to opposition. I've found that the best way to make that is by assigning these roles:

DM = deep playmaker

MCr = box to box

MCl/AMR = advanced playmakers

AML/FC = complete forwards

Long shots are on rarely for everyone!

I'm open to suggestions though

[Justified]

Well atm yonko I'm putting it on hold as I am working on my ConDom (Control & Domination) tactic for FM09'. I decided to combine two theories to create these two tactics. The Nike Defence + Band of Two. The Nike Defence allows for low CF in the backline and DMC due to it's controlled theorem whilst the Band of Two offers more creativity. I am using a 4-3-3 (or 4-3-2-1 as it would be translated) to test this out.

GK - 16

DC - 12/14

FB - 16

MCd - 15

MCa's - 18

AMRL - 15

FC - 20

I guess your first question would be, why are my wingers on such low mentality. I'm testing to see how they would react in a support role rather then just pushing on towards the fullbacks where he would be marked out. The FC stays on a attacking mentality being a spearhead rather then someone who drops deep and gets involved in play. He still has hold up ball though because if he gets on the end of a clearence he can hold it um until those MCa's run up to support. I have a pushed up backline hence why it's called Domination to keep pressure in the opponents half.

[RT--]

Given that you guys advocate quite high closing down (or at least closing down that matches the mentality and then some), do you have any problems with conditioning?

I don't know if it's just because I'm still early in the season, or that I'm playing in the Conference and have players with fairly low stamina, but I play with fairly high closing down anyway and my wingers in-particular seem to get knackered quite quickly.

Have you found any problems with this?

[Guest roberto922]

I can't download the file, it comes up with an error message.

[stioegl]

Hi, i have been looking at the Excel TT&F wizard and i have noticed that changing the framework (ie 2-6-2, bands of two etc) does not change anything on the spreadsheet, changing the formation and variant changes the player settings but when I change the framework nothing happens. I am using office 2003 is this this problem or is the problem with the spreadsheet? Thanks

It only works on Office 2007 or office:mac and OpenOffice 3.0. Office 2003 doesn't have the functionality required to display everything correctly. If there was an error in the extraction/download, I'd try it again.

I experience the same thing, and I'm using OpenOffice 3.0. Nothing changes when changing the framework... Downloaded it twice!

[yonko]

Well atm yonko I'm putting it on hold as I am working on my ConDom (Control & Domination) tactic for FM09'. I decided to combine two theories to create these two tactics. The Nike Defence + Band of Two. The Nike Defence allows for low CF in the backline and DMC due to it's controlled theorem whilst the Band of Two offers more creativity. I am using a 4-3-3 (or 4-3-2-1 as it would be translated) to test this out.

GK - 16

DC - 12/14

FB - 16

MCd - 15

MCa's - 18

AMRL - 15

FC - 20

I guess your first question would be, why are my wingers on such low mentality. I'm testing to see how they would react in a support role rather then just pushing on towards the fullbacks where he would be marked out. The FC stays on a attacking mentality being a spearhead rather then someone who drops deep and gets involved in play. He still has hold up ball though because if he gets on the end of a clearence he can hold it um until those MCa's run up to support. I have a pushed up backline hence why it's called Domination to keep pressure in the opponents half.

So you are toying with the 4-3-3 formation! I knew it...I seem to remember back in FM 07 you had one very good 4-3-3 with Liverpool, your favorite team. Right?

Looks like you have a good plan there. But I've found that I don't need such attacking framework to dominate the opponent. I like them to come at me a little, take the ball in the middle third and catch them in transition.

But I will try you setting for the wingers. It could be usefull against teams that sit back....make my wingers cut inside earlier and run with the ball towards the defense.

Let me know it goes. I will test some things too and get back to you.

Ta ta

[Justified]

So you are toying with the 4-3-3 formation! I knew it...I seem to remember back in FM 07 you had one very good 4-3-3 with Liverpool, your favorite team. Right?

Looks like you have a good plan there. But I've found that I don't need such attacking framework to dominate the opponent. I like them to come at me a little, take the ball in the middle third and catch them in transition.

But I will try you setting for the wingers. It could be usefull against teams that sit back....make my wingers cut inside earlier and run with the ball towards the defense.

Let me know it goes. I will test some things too and get back to you.

Ta ta

I have a less attacking one (Standard) as well and I'll create a Control one once I come up against a team who park the bus. Basically the idea with the wingers came up when I figured I wanted me wingers to be my "unpredictables". The run, they cross, the thread through balls and are also my 2nd and 3rd strikers. So far they've been playing very well, the interaction between them and the fullbacks work well (if fullbacks are on FWRD Often, on Mixed only on occasion. ).

[PyramidHead]

Wow, after reading all that i am truly overhelmed and impressed by this...

First time im posting as i am more of a lurker on this forum, but this time I feel forced to show my gratitude to the persons who have taken their time to come up with this behemoth of a guide. I've been reading these theorems since the fm2006/fm2007 days and I must say that wwfan and all the others that has been working on these have surpassed themselves this time on a level far beyond my expectations. It has helped me enjoy and understand the tactical side (that can be very very frustrating, escpecially on FM08) of FM before and I am sure it will help me once again as I load up FM09 for the first time tonight. Thank you!

/back to lurkmode

[moj]

Superb thread but can you produce more tactics please? Some of the attacking tactics I got from this thread are insane, 5 strikers, etc, but they work and you can see why they work.

[treble_yell_:-)]

you guys are legends.

The effort you guys put into this is amazing , and pretty much why FM has the best community of any game ive ever played.

That and i now understand why my 4-3-2-1 wasnt working

[wwfan]

Links

Thanks to those that have covered the downloads with new links. I've edited them into to the opening post. FM-Britain is currently down and until we can contact the owner of the account, there is nothing we can do about it. Once (if) we can get it back up, I'll re edit in the FMB links. For those wishing to listen to the podcast (which is quite interesting in terms of how the guide originated), use iTunes and search for the Get Sacked podcast. Furthermore, if anyone can provide a working mirror then please PM me with the link and I'll edit it in. Thanks.

Translations

For anyone wanting to translate the guide, please PM me with the language you are covering and the site which will host it, so I can keep track of things. Thus far, it is being translated into Chinese, Romanian, Indonesian and Polish (and I have seen some Italian translation around as well). I'd love to get it translated into as many languages as possible.

[Millie]

A further note about the podcast - this is hosted on the FM-B servers also, so you may not be able to get it. We'll work as hard as we can to get this sorted ASAP.

[wwfan]

Given that you guys advocate quite high closing down (or at least closing down that matches the mentality and then some), do you have any problems with conditioning?

I don't know if it's just because I'm still early in the season, or that I'm playing in the Conference and have players with fairly low stamina, but I play with fairly high closing down anyway and my wingers in-particular seem to get knackered quite quickly.

Have you found any problems with this?

We suggest that closing down needs to be less at lower league level as players are neither disciplined nor fit enough to do it.

[lim]

Am i right in thinking that the defensive line should be set at the centre of the mentality range, like it was in 08?

btw i dont understand why direct passing should be applied to strikers in an attacking mentality, surely ull want them to pass to the nearest unmarked player.

[wwfan]

Am i right in thinking that the defensive line should be set at the centre of the mentality range, like it was in 08?

btw i dont understand why direct passing should be applied to strikers in an attacking mentality, surely ull want them to pass to the nearest unmarked player.

That is the opening assumption for defensive line. However, it can be changed dependent on the pitch size and the speed of the defenders.

The longer passing for strikers opens up their passing options. With short passing, the likelihood is only one player being in range, which limits attacking options. With longer passing, they can spray the ball to the flanks, which opens space.

[Elim]

I've always resorted to downloading user-created tactics, but this year I wanted to make the effort to develop my own. This guide is fantastic.

[displaced_seagull]

Ok, I'm managing Spurs, I've got a 4-4-2 Diamond set up with Ro2.

We are tight - actually quite impressive - at the back - but we just cannot seem to create chances (good chances).

Results so far this season (Competitive);

v Hull - Away - 2-0 defeat

v Portsmouth - Home - 0-0 Draw

v Man Utd - Away - 3-1 Defeat (Woodgate)

v Bolton - Home - 0-0 Draw

v Slovan Liberec - Home - 0-0 Draw

Using the 'Standard' Mentality settings, perhaps a little towards the defensive side if anything. Just can't seem to create at all.

[wwfan]

Working out how to score is tough (as it should be). If you give the wrong players the roaming instructions, everything will be disjointed. We also found Spurs problematic in testing as they made so many defensive errors due to a total lack of gelling.

Id' be looking at giving Bent Poacher settings and trying to work Pavlyuchenko into a supporting role (perhaps as a creative forward (i.e advanced Playmaker in an FCd role but without Playmaker being ticked (although I haven't checked if he is suitable)). Modric I'd use sparingly until he has picked up the language. I'd be looking at getting Lennon, Bentley and Jenas to do the creative stuff for the first 15 games, backed up with a spine of Dokora and Huddlestone, and then re-evaluate Modric and try to give him more game time.

[daleuk8]

how do you set the foward run that is tucked in?