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Burbian De Bay

Poacher in a flat 4-1-4-1 formation (counter attack)

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Excuse my English.

I always start a save being unemployed without any experience. I read a lot about FM-tactics, but I never download or set up a tactic based on others success.

Now I've got a lower league job, and the tactic below are actually working with my team:

                  DLF(s)

W(s)     CM(a)    CM(s)    IW(a)

FB(d)    CB(d)    CB(d)    FB(s)

                   GK

Mentality: Balanced

In posession:
Shorter passing
Play out of defense
Low crosses

In transition:
Counter-press
Hold shape

Out of possession:
Standard or lower defensive line
Standard or lower LOE

What I want to achieve:
possession based football, create width in the oppositions half and exploit the space created by FB(s) and W(s).

Here is the question(s):
I do not have much time for experimenting, and as mentioned, I always start as unemployed, which means I do not have any pre-season in the beginning.

Now, the above tactic somehow works for my rubbish team. I am now into a month facing better oppositions, and I'm thinking of playing more direct football, using counter attacks. I am using the 4-1-4-1 flat formation above, as I do not have any players who can play AMR or AML (according to the pies). I also have no "target man" strikers in my squad, they are all quick and have good OFT attributes.

What I want to achieve:
Win the ball as soon as possible, play quickly to wingers or poacher who hopefully will be one-by-one with the opposition GK.

Will the below formation leave the poacher all by himself, playing a flat 4-1-4-1, or does it makes sense to have an attacking poacher in a counter-attacking 4-1-4-1 system? I know I should just try the tactic myself, but I am wondering if it looks totally idiotic, or if someone has experience with the same tactics.


                   P(a)

W(s)    DLP(s)    CM(s)    W(s)

FB(d)    CB(d)    CB(d)    FB(s)

                   GK

 

Thanks!

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3 hours ago, Burbian De Bay said:

Will the below formation leave the poacher all by himself, playing a flat 4-1-4-1, or does it makes sense to have an attacking poacher in a counter-attacking 4-1-4-1 system? I know I should just try the tactic myself, but I am wondering if it looks totally idiotic, or if someone has experience with the same tactics.


                   P(a)

W(s)    DLP(s)    CM(s)    W(s)

FB(d)    CB(d)    CB(d)    FB(s)

                   GK

Yeah, the poacher will be too isolated, and unless he is a world-class player - he's going to struggle to make an impact. Btw, you omitted the DM in 4141. Assuming that your DM is primarily responsible for screening the defense (anchor or standard DM on defend duty), you can play one of the CMs on attack duty in order to reduce the lone poacher's isolation. And in this system I would prefer a PF on attack to a poacher. An example:

PFat

IWsu     DLPsu    CMat      Wsu

ACM/DMde

FBsu        CD      CD       FBde

GK

Player instructions for the lone PFatt - move into channels and roam from position, to encourage as much movement from him as possible.

Btw, what mentality and team instructions do you plan to use for this counter-attacking system?

Edited by Experienced Defender

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Thank you @Experienced Defender, it is much appreciated. And yes, I forgot my DM/ anchor man in the lineup (I blame the beer).

I was planning to play with cautions mentality, and with TI's counter press, direct passing, clear to flanks and hit early/low crosses, as my simple plan was to quickly play the ball to my wingers, and let them hit low crosses to my quick poacher, who could end up one-on-one against the opposition GK (if their defense is high up the field). But your set-up makes more sense, as the IWsu, CMat and PFat will "link together", and the Wsu and FBsu will create some space for them. Maybe I should just stick with shorter passing and only change the mentality against much better oppositions.

I read Cleon's "the art of counter attacking", and he did not use any TIs'/ PI's on FM15/ 16. I guess FM19 is different though.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice (and training).

Edited by Burbian De Bay

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1 hour ago, Burbian De Bay said:

I was planning to play with cautions mentality, and with TI's counter press, direct passing, clear to flanks

Counter-press or counter? I guess you confused the two?

And there is not the "Clear to flanks" team instruction in FM19 (it's unfortunately gone).

If I was to play a counter-attacking football with a 4141, my basic team instructions would likely include the following (along with the Cautious mentality):

- In possession: more direct passing, higher tempo, slightly wider attacking width (and occasionally pass into space and/or hit early crosses)

- In transition: counter, regroup (distribution would depend on the keeper's relevant attributes)

- Out of possession: standard DL, lower LOE (other instructions including pressing intensity would depend on analysis of my players' defensive abilities in relation to opposition strengths and weaknesses).

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On 10/02/2019 at 21:20, Experienced Defender said:

Counter-press or counter? I guess you confused the two?

And there is not the "Clear to flanks" team instruction in FM19 (it's unfortunately gone).

Yes, I am mixing the TI's as I just switched from FM17 to FM19. I meant counter-press and distribute to flanks.

I may have misunderstood the counter-press TI. I guess you would use regroup instead of counter-press to invite the opposition to your own half, and quickly hit them on the counter? 

Thanks.

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5 hours ago, Burbian De Bay said:

I meant counter-press

But if you want to play counter-attacking football (as you said in an earlier post), then the counter TI in transition is a more than logical choice. You can use counter-press as well if you want, but it's not necessary.

 

5 hours ago, Burbian De Bay said:

I may have misunderstood the counter-press TI. I guess you would use regroup instead of counter-press to invite the opposition to your own half, and quickly hit them on the counter? 

I use instructions depending on the style of play I want to implement and my players' general qualities (strengths and weaknesses). For counter-attacking football, I'd rather use regroup than counter-press, though you don't have to use either. Regroup means your players will look to get back into their defensive positions as soon as the ball has been lost, while counter-press instructs them to press opposition immediately and try to win the ball back (which is a more risky option because your defensive shape and balance will be disturbed to some extent).

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6 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I use instructions depending on the style of play I want to implement and my players' general qualities (strengths and weaknesses). For counter-attacking football, I'd rather use regroup than counter-press, though you don't have to use either. Regroup means your players will look to get back into their defensive positions as soon as the ball has been lost, while counter-press instructs them to press opposition immediately and try to win the ball back (which is a more risky option because your defensive shape and balance will be disturbed to some extent).

Thanks again for taking your time to comment. Some of the questions I know should have been in the stupid questions thread. Anyway, now I have have the knowledge I need to conquer the FM19-world!

Having said that, when managing a useless team in the lower league, it is not easy to implement a playing style based on players strengths and weaknesses. All quality I have is a striker who cannot do anything but running fast, but I will find a way to use him based on the information you provided above.

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