Set Piece Approaches

[Saintmat]

Hi all,

I'm interested in starting a discussion about everybody's approaches to set pieces. It's an area of the game I consider to be important, but don't really understand how to make the most of them. Some of the things I am curious on hearing are:

1. Do people bother setting up routines? If so, which ones?

2. Do people respond to AI strategies with set pieces?

3. How much tactical flexibility do AI managers have with regards to setting up set pieces? What factors affect this?

4. Do people feel that their players follow routines that are set up? What factors affect AI player behaviour regarding this?

5. How should I go about setting up routines? Any rules of thumb?

Personally I always make sure to set up corner routines (defensive and attacking) but really can't be bothered with all the other ones. That is mainly the result of frustration of not understanding them!

I also think with the way set pieces are implemented at the moment makes them difficult to engage with, and perhaps it would be good to hear some thoughts on how SI could improve this part of the game? (I realise that is typically a discussion for another forum however!)

Not necessarily expecting answers to every point, but would be interested to hear what other players think about any of the questions above.

Thanks all!

[Snorks]

3 hours ago, Saintmat said:

Hi all,

I'm interested in starting a discussion about everybody's approaches to set pieces. It's an area of the game I consider to be important, but don't really understand how to make the most of them. Some of the things I am curious on hearing are:

1. Do people bother setting up routines? If so, which ones? -  Corners and Free Kicks. Sometimes throw-ins but only if I have a great long-throw artist.

2. Do people respond to AI strategies with set pieces? - Pre--match report, I look at their delivery of corners/free kicks. If the prefer a certain type of delivery I might move my defenders around so the best headers/strongest players are in the area I expect the ball delivered to.

3. How much tactical flexibility do AI managers have with regards to setting up set pieces? What factors affect this? - No idea

4. Do people feel that their players follow routines that are set up? What factors affect AI player behaviour regarding this? -  My players  are usually fairly close to the instructions.

5. How should I go about setting up routines? Any rules of thumb? - For corners, I rend to go for inswingers to the near post with my best headers all set to that area. Far post the same. Penalty Spot delivery as well with headers spread around the box. I have four 'important' players in mine, the top three headers will 'Attack post' 'Stand on post' and 'Attack ball from deep' my fourth is the best long -range shooter, he 'Lurks outside the box'. I'll keep two back and the rest are positioned to make a pain of themselves in the area - Mark Keeper etc.

Defending corners, I don;t have anyone on the posts - in ten years I have never seen them do anything. five zonally marking the six-yard box, a couple to mark tall -player or their best header. My paciest players, and those with higher Vision/Flair are positioned for second ball and break-away counters.

Personally I always make sure to set up corner routines (defensive and attacking) but really can't be bothered with all the other ones. That is mainly the result of frustration of not understanding them!

I also think with the way set pieces are implemented at the moment makes them difficult to engage with, and perhaps it would be good to hear some thoughts on how SI could improve this part of the game? (I realise that is typically a discussion for another forum however!) - I agree, I hate the current set-piece creator.

Not necessarily expecting answers to every point, but would be interested to hear what other players think about any of the questions above.

Thanks all!

 

[djpdavey]

Quote

2. Do people respond to AI strategies with set pieces?

Yeah I look at the opposition last 2 games match analysis to see where they lump their corners and free kicks and I'll move my best jumpers and headers to those places accordingly.

[Saintmat]

On 29/01/2019 at 19:00, Snorks said:

Pre--match report, I look at their delivery of corners/free kicks. If the prefer a certain type of delivery I might move my defenders around so the best headers/strongest players are in the area I expect the ball delivered to.

 

4 hours ago, djpdavey said:

Yeah I look at the opposition last 2 games match analysis to see where they lump their corners and free kicks and I'll move my best jumpers and headers to those places accordingly.

Hadn't realised this was available! Is that the scout report or the data analyst team one?

On 29/01/2019 at 19:00, Snorks said:

For corners, I rend to go for inswingers to the near post with my best headers all set to that area. Far post the same. Penalty Spot delivery as well with headers spread around the box. I have four 'important' players in mine, the top three headers will 'Attack post' 'Stand on post' and 'Attack ball from deep' my fourth is the best long -range shooter, he 'Lurks outside the box'. I'll keep two back and the rest are positioned to make a pain of themselves in the area - Mark Keeper etc.

Defending corners, I don;t have anyone on the posts - in ten years I have never seen them do anything. five zonally marking the six-yard box, a couple to mark tall -player or their best header. My paciest players, and those with higher Vision/Flair are positioned for second ball and break-away counters.

Penalty box strats never seem to pay off for me, but will give your setup a go.

Interesting approach with defensive. I tried with no-one on the posts in my last game, but found that the opposition simply crowd the keeper out and that causes all sorts of havoc.

On 29/01/2019 at 19:00, Snorks said:

I agree, I hate the current set-piece creator.

It's terrible certainly, but one of my key issues with it is access. I wonder if it would help to have a quick-click link to it on matchday. So often I forget to check the setup I have in place and it will cause all sorts of mad **** to happen, like keeping my tallest CB up front when defending corners...

[Snorks]

5 hours ago, Saintmat said:

 

Hadn't realised this was available! Is that the scout report or the data analyst team one?

Penalty box strats never seem to pay off for me, but will give your setup a go.

Interesting approach with defensive. I tried with no-one on the posts in my last game, but found that the opposition simply crowd the keeper out and that causes all sorts of havoc.

It's terrible certainly, but one of my key issues with it is access. I wonder if it would help to have a quick-click link to it on matchday. So often I forget to check the setup I have in place and it will cause all sorts of mad **** to happen, like keeping my tallest CB up front when defending corners...

Not at my game computer at the moment  and can't for the life of me remember how I get to the set-piece analysis .  I think  it's in Data Analysis, and through the individual stats from a previous game. I can see the screen in my head. lol.

Without anyone on the posts when defending, you do need to crowd the six-yard box with bodies set to zonal marking. Have your players with Vision, Flair and /or passing set to close down taker and/or on the edge of the box - pacey guy stays up top. If second ball drops to one of your guys there's a fair chance of a solid counter attack. 

I don;t want your expectations raised too far though, corners haven;t had an 'exploit' in them for a while, and I will concede as many as I score - there is no golden ticket to this AFAIK - but a decent set up defending will give you the chance to break quickly.

 

[Snorks]

17 hours ago, Snorks said:

 

 

22 hours ago, Saintmat said:

 

Hadn't realised this was available! Is that the scout report or the data analyst team one?

 

From your Data Analyst pre-match report click on the result of their last match. Go to the Analysis drop-down menu and select 'Team'.

Select which team you want to look at on the pitch, and you have all manner of stats and info you can look at from that game. 'Set Pieces' will show you where their corners are delivered to.

[Saintmat]

On 31/01/2019 at 00:59, Snorks said:

Without anyone on the posts when defending, you do need to crowd the six-yard box with bodies set to zonal marking. Have your players with Vision, Flair and /or passing set to close down taker and/or on the edge of the box - pacey guy stays up top. If second ball drops to one of your guys there's a fair chance of a solid counter attack. 

I don;t want your expectations raised too far though, corners haven;t had an 'exploit' in them for a while, and I will concede as many as I score - there is no golden ticket to this AFAIK - but a decent set up defending will give you the chance to break quickly.

Interesting, why that attribute set for closing down taker? Have tended to find they aren't all that effective also.

And yeah not looking for an exploit, but more just how to maximise set piece results. 

On 31/01/2019 at 18:46, Snorks said:

 

From your Data Analyst pre-match report click on the result of their last match. Go to the Analysis drop-down menu and select 'Team'.

Select which team you want to look at on the pitch, and you have all manner of stats and info you can look at from that game. 'Set Pieces' will show you where their corners are delivered to.

Thank you! In pre-season now but I will keep in mind ahead of the next friendlies

[Snorks]

9 hours ago, Saintmat said:

Interesting, why that attribute set for closing down taker? Have tended to find they aren't all that effective also.

 

I'm not really looking for them to do anything on the corner,  but more to gather up any second balls that get cleared. Good vision/passing can then set off a quick counter (with pacey players also poised on edge of box/stay forward).

[pervertwithapurpose]

I've never been able to get a dangerous corner set up working, even in the version that had the "corner exploit" (except for those times when I had some really outstanding talent). Defending corners I do keep a man on the near post, yeah they don't seem to do much but I noticed without one it seemed like a lot of junk goals were getting in on rebounds and such. Then I use a mixture of zonal and man marking depending on my players. It seems to work quite well.

I've had more success with throw ins, making them short to players with strength , first touch, and passing ability. I seem to get a lot of nice goals out of that.

[Snorks]

1 hour ago, pervertwithapurpose said:

 

I've had more success with throw ins, making them short to players with strength , first touch, and passing ability. I seem to get a lot of nice goals out of that.

I might look into that - never really used throw-in routines unless I had a long thrower.

[djpdavey]

On 30/01/2019 at 19:50, Saintmat said:

Hadn't realised this was available! Is that the scout report or the data analyst team one?

I go to the oppositions schedule, click on thier last 2 results, got to the match analysis, expand the set pieces section, check corners.

[keysi]

On 29/01/2019 at 16:06, Saintmat said:

Hi all,

I'm interested in starting a discussion about everybody's approaches to set pieces. It's an area of the game I consider to be important, but don't really understand how to make the most of them. Some of the things I am curious on hearing are:

1. Do people bother setting up routines? If so, which ones?

2. Do people respond to AI strategies with set pieces?

3. How much tactical flexibility do AI managers have with regards to setting up set pieces? What factors affect this?

4. Do people feel that their players follow routines that are set up? What factors affect AI player behaviour regarding this?

5. How should I go about setting up routines? Any rules of thumb?

Personally I always make sure to set up corner routines (defensive and attacking) but really can't be bothered with all the other ones. That is mainly the result of frustration of not understanding them!

I also think with the way set pieces are implemented at the moment makes them difficult to engage with, and perhaps it would be good to hear some thoughts on how SI could improve this part of the game? (I realise that is typically a discussion for another forum however!)

Not necessarily expecting answers to every point, but would be interested to hear what other players think about any of the questions above.

Thanks all!

1

1. I try to create at least one a routine for every set pieces available. One of my most favourite is Short routine for corners and throw-ins (several variations of a short throw-in routine are my most favourite). It was great also for free kicks in the past, mainly in FM17 for me but I was not successful with it too much in FM18 & FM19. Mainly due to not all players were in the roles/positions where I wanted them.

2. It's very easy to analyse & identify AI strategy within set pieces thanks to Analysis screen and when you find their most common approach, it's also easy to defend it. The best example are FM19 routines with Far Post delivery. 

3. I'm not sure about this and I don't know exact numbers but I would say the flexibility of AI teams set pieces is very low. I usually played about 20-30 seasons within previous five or six versions of the game and I never noticed something new by AI clubs, there was a lack of creativity and it's absolutely the same within FM19.

4. It's hard to talk about this during FM19 as set pieces are very bad this year and there many issues about people from SI know but they were unable to fix it. For example, players in the wrong roles/positions etc. If you will go to Bugs Forum/Match Engine, I'm sure you will several topics with set pieces issues. For example this one...

5. For me, the best rule for set pieces is to select the right players to the right roles. It's super easy as you can see the key attributes for (almost) all selected roles within set piece creator.

[dsb85]

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this but I can't seem to find any answers on it. Does anyone know if you can find out how many direct free kicks a particular player has scored in the season? I know you can see how many a team has scored but I can't seem to find the stat for players. I've scored 16 over the course of the season and I use 3 separate takers, and I wish to compare the figures but can't seem to find it. It's not even in the players stats section. I find it funny that it would show how many penalties they've scored and even how many crosses they've completed, but not how many free kicks they've scored.

If anyone knows whether there is a place to find this info and I'm just being thick, then please let me know.

Thanks.

[keysi]

4 hours ago, dsb85 said:

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this but I can't seem to find any answers on it. Does anyone know if you can find out how many direct free kicks a particular player has scored in the season? I know you can see how many a team has scored but I can't seem to find the stat for players. I've scored 16 over the course of the season and I use 3 separate takers, and I wish to compare the figures but can't seem to find it. It's not even in the players stats section. I find it funny that it would show how many penalties they've scored and even how many crosses they've completed, but not how many free kicks they've scored.

If anyone knows whether there is a place to find this info and I'm just being thick, then please let me know.

Thanks.

I think I know this game very well and I'm 99,9% sure it's not possible to find this. You would have to check all matches retrospectively and count it by yourself. 

[zlatanera]

@dsb85 I've been looking and can't seem to find a way, I think @keysi is right that there's no way of doing it. Perhaps should make a post in the feature request section. 

[dsb85]

21 hours ago, zlatanera said:

@dsb85 I've been looking and can't seem to find a way, I think @keysi is right that there's no way of doing it. Perhaps should make a post in the feature request section. 

yeah I believe @keysi and yourself are correct. It seems to be a bit of an oversight by FM. Seems like a fairly obvious thing to include, compared to a lot of other stats they track. Cheers for your replies.

[IndyManager]

Dumb add on question to this topic, but on throws in, if I don't want someone to try a long throw, do I just do nothing? For my takers I just select the guy I want taking a throw that would sustain my shape (usually left and right backs). Do I even need a routine?

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, IndyManager said:

if I don't want someone to try a long throw, do I just do nothing? For my takers I just select the guy I want taking a throw that would sustain my shape (usually left and right backs). Do I even need a routine?

You can tell the taker(s) to throw it short, and set 2-3 players to come short. That's what I do. For example, if I play a 4231, for the right side throw in I set it up this way:

taker - throw it short

AMR, ST and MCR - come short

AMC - lurk outside area (edge of the box)

AML - go forward

others - stay back

The same goes for the left side, only inversely.

[keysi]

On 15/02/2019 at 20:55, IndyManager said:

Dumb add on question to this topic, but on throws in, if I don't want someone to try a long throw, do I just do nothing? For my takers I just select the guy I want taking a throw that would sustain my shape (usually left and right backs). Do I even need a routine?

If you don't set your own routine or if you don't change throw-in delivery to short (as @Experienced Defender mentioned) it will stay mixed so it means there will still by long throws time from time. If your selected player will have a high Long Throws attribute the possibility of long throws with Mixed delivery will be higher.

[IndyManager]

@keysi and @Experienced Defender - thanks much.  Upon setting it to short and then watching it in action, I realize there are times when I DO want the throw to be long, such as in my own end, traveling along the touch line. I'll keep tweaking the routines. Thanks again.

 

[keysi]

@IndyManager Keep tweaking it and keep experimenting with it. That's probably the best way within set pieces despite not everything works well and some things could be confusing, for example, different players positions in comparison with how it looks in the set piece creator.

The short throw-in routine is my most favourite and I'm using it and have several versions but I'm sure you can see long or longer throw despite the delivery is set to short. It depends on other players and their role. Like, if you will have only one player set to "offer short option" it's possible you will lose the ball or taker will throw it longer to a different player.