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vandamme22

away problems - tactic check

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I am playing with fc bayern in my first season and overall I am doing ok but there is some inconsistency when I am playing away and I cant explain me what I am doing wrong.

The overall ok performance is unique to the defensive work but the offensive I am struggling a little bit (especially away). Could you please check my tactics:

This is my standard set-up with my first eleven players when everbody is available:

ddabd7a780fa8137dc01c948ce749e5b.png

When I am playing away against stronger teams or matches which are balanced: I change following things:

- Mentality to balanced

- Both wingbacks to fbs with the same duty

- cm to defend and dlp to support

- Tick in transition to counter when my team is winning the ball to start quick counters

Overall the players performance is good. Only my amc is not performing. 

ef0773d753034cec7d6ced7bcdd75528.png

So my problem is that when I am playing away I have problem with being dominant and create and get chances overall.

Here are the last three away game results against opponent where I have been the favourite:

c4b41fa923c93dfb32b1044a43abe63e.pngebb7b43a0c3e03ca8800b60d3c74a5f9.png

de37f8c1c06ceaad126dab59083ed022.png

0b50342335ee53631fc34f231253fdb5.png

f3602bbc730465da9d6e9158d02bd58a.png

8eec36881b663d4aa4046b5e2c0e6186.png

 

You will notice that I have very few chances and shots overall. I have no clou why??? I get more chances with the same tactic in home games.

Here are some other stats:

1147c53d4e894c53cfc02ad4d9f5e29d.png

bec33aeb9a668d6aecf8f905fb6fe6b2.png

de8c77636954d2adfe588719f622779d.png

b3be1f106ed4fb738be377835fb658bd.png

I would be very thankfull when you can analyze my tactic, I have no second tactic.

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In terms of roles and duties, there is nothing wrong with your tactic per se. Maybe just a couple of tweaks to roles - e.g. introducing an APM on support (either as AML or AMC). It would not disrupt the balance, but could add a degree of better organization in the final third . On the defensive side, you might consider changing the left back to FB on attack (instead of WBatt), but if you don't face defensive issues on the left flank, then it should not be necessary.

As for team instructions, I would suggest removing the "Lower tempo" TI and adding the "Work ball into box" instead. Maybe you could even try with a bit higher tempo (one notch above the medium), in order to move the ball quicker and thus make it more difficult for opposition to defend. Bayern players are good enough to play on a bit higher tempo without  much risk of losing possession.

In the transition phase, I would always use the "Counter" TI. But maybe you have some special reason for not using it?

24 minutes ago, vandamme22 said:

When I am playing away against stronger teams or matches which are balanced: I change following things:

- Mentality to balanced

- Both wingbacks to fbs with the same duty

- cm to defend and dlp to support

- Tick in transition to counter when my team is winning the ball to start quick counters

Overall the players performance is good. Only my amc is not performing. 

If you lower the mentality, I believe you don't need to change too many other instructions, because mentality automatically affects them all. You especially don't need to change the duties to the midfield two (DLPde and CMsu is a better combo than the opposite, because in the latter case you have two "holders" and no "runner" to support the front four). On the other hand, I agree that you should be a bit more cautious with the fullbacks when playing tougher games. I can give you just an example of how you may set up roles/duties in these tough games with very little change to your primary tactic:

PFat

IFsu     APsu      Wat

DLPde   BTB

WBsu    CD    CD     FBsu

SKsu

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thx for your reply.

I changed what you recommended me and play two matches.

First @home against leipzig:

2481b83cfdcafd69b3c4c3db008a9f5a.png

They dominated me like no opponent in my stadium. I managed to win, because I scored both goals with counter chances.

And the second match is really not accountable for me - please explain this to me:

I play against a opponent who didnt get a win in the last 6 league matches:

f8e52a0c9889d30b1e08c5f6d5bf026d.png

And they also dominated me: please look at this stats - its almost unrealistic.

51a94be005e00eb92d479f31782e1818.png

I had so much luck to get one point after such a bad play from my team. Is this a me phenomenon or my balanced tactic?

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8 minutes ago, vandamme22 said:

I changed what you recommended me and play two matches.

What particular changes have you made? Only team instructions, or roles/duties or both? If they dominated you in both home and away games, I guess you need to adjust your defensive (out of possession) section of the tactic and make it a bit more aggressive (higher LOE for example, and perhaps even a bit higher DL). I don't manage Bayern, so I don't know your players well enough to offer some more specific advice. I can only speculate what might be the problem. 

When I manage a team, I analyze each next opponent and watch all my matches in full, and always make tweaks to my starting tactic during a match based on what I see. And tweaks are sometimes needed even if the starting tactic works well, because the AI also adjusts their tactic, so you need to watch and react accordingly.

What I've noticed is that you dominated possession in both games, and against Leipzig you had 3 clear-cut chances while they didn't create a single one (plus, a vast majority of their shots were from distance - 11 out of 14). 

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You are conceding chances down the middle, and a suggestion of a BBM was given as a way to improve the team? I am not shocked the results were poor. You made your team more vulnerable down the centre, which I am not sure is a good thing to do. If you were going to use a BBM, then one of your FBs should be on defend to compensate for the potential loss of a defender when the opposition can counter. 

In terms of your away form. You are set up to play a patient possession game. Teams may be more willing to let you do this when you are at home, and so it works better. Away from home, teams are more likely to have a go at you. This means, in general, they are more likely to press you, and they will actually come out and attack you properly. You probably does not get very tested at home. This can account for why teams are quite even with you when you play away from home. 

The patient passing game will allow the opposition to get back into position and defend before you create chances. This is why possession based teams usually have a high block with closing down. Possession is a defensive technique when used a lone. It is not designed to create chances, it is designed to keep the other team off the ball so they cannot create chances. The high pressing aspect increases possession by decreasing the time it takes to recover the ball, and allows you to win the ball high up the pitch when the opposition is not set in defence. This is when you can easily exploit teams, and create chances. 

So my suggestions would be to either move away from the patient possession and try to be more direct or make your forwards much more aggressive with their pressing to try to create openings by winning the ball high up the pitch. 

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50 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

You are conceding chances down the middle, and a suggestion of a BBM was given as a way to improve the team? I am not shocked the results were poor. You made your team more vulnerable down the centre, which I am not sure is a good thing to do. If you were going to use a BBM, then one of your FBs should be on defend to compensate for the potential loss of a defender when the opposition can counter

Since I was the one that gave the suggestion of BBM, I have to say that I partly agree with your observation, especially as the AMR is (a winger) on attack. However, this does not necessarily have to be an issue. I assumed Bayern players are good enough to play a bit more risky. But if that particular area actually is his defensive problem, then the right back should be changed to defend duty (either a WBde or, preferably, IWBde). Alternatively, a carillero can be used instead of BBM.

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9 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Since I was the one that gave the suggestion of BBM, I have to say that I partly agree with your observation, especially as the AMR is (a winger) on attack. However, this does not necessarily have to be an issue. I assumed Bayern players are good enough to play a bit more risky. But if that particular area actually is his defensive problem, then the right back should be changed to defend duty (either a WBde or, preferably, IWBde). Alternatively, a carillero can be used instead of BBM. 

Bayern should be able to handle more risk, I agree. I'm just of a very different school of tactical thought, I think. I prefer to build around a rock solid defense, and work from there. Which is why my brain had kittens at the thought of only a single midfield player holding position so high up the pitch!

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5 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Bayern should be able to handle more risk, I agree. I'm just of a very different school of tactical thought, I think. I prefer to build around a rock solid defense, and work from there

Well, then you are actually of the same school of tactical thought as myself :D Strong and stable defense is my top priority when it comes to tactics, and I totally agree with your concept of building around a rock solid defense :thup:

However, given that most people asking for advice here prioritize attacking and do not care too much about defending, I am simply trying to "adapt" my advice to that in a sense :idiot:

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vor 21 Stunden schrieb sporadicsmiles:

You are conceding chances down the middle, and a suggestion of a BBM was given as a way to improve the team? I am not shocked the results were poor. You made your team more vulnerable down the centre, which I am not sure is a good thing to do. If you were going to use a BBM, then one of your FBs should be on defend to compensate for the potential loss of a defender when the opposition can counter. 

In terms of your away form. You are set up to play a patient possession game. Teams may be more willing to let you do this when you are at home, and so it works better. Away from home, teams are more likely to have a go at you. This means, in general, they are more likely to press you, and they will actually come out and attack you properly. You probably does not get very tested at home. This can account for why teams are quite even with you when you play away from home. 

The patient passing game will allow the opposition to get back into position and defend before you create chances. This is why possession based teams usually have a high block with closing down. Possession is a defensive technique when used a lone. It is not designed to create chances, it is designed to keep the other team off the ball so they cannot create chances. The high pressing aspect increases possession by decreasing the time it takes to recover the ball, and allows you to win the ball high up the pitch when the opposition is not set in defence. This is when you can easily exploit teams, and create chances. 

So my suggestions would be to either move away from the patient possession and try to be more direct or make your forwards much more aggressive with their pressing to try to create openings by winning the ball high up the pitch. 

OK interessting thoughts.

This means you have no standard tactic for home and away games? You play always like gegenpressing when I understand what you mean with pressing and  to be more direct.

vor 21 Stunden schrieb sporadicsmiles:

So my suggestions would be to either move away from the patient possession and try to be more direct or make your forwards much more aggressive with their pressing to try to create openings by winning the ball high up the pitch. 

How to reach that with my set-up? My board is expecting possession based style. So therefore I took the control possession tactic with some tweaks.

So I will show you my last away game with the tweaks which I made.

9d5f390a3b9f59bf6af7c23c419baaa3.png

You will notice that I was at the first half inexistent. Same picture as the whole other away agames. Opponent has a lot of long shots and I got nothing - create nothing.

My tweaks for this game:

  • switched wbl to fbl support
  • cm support to bbm
  • fbr s to wbr defend
  • higher pressing line and defence and pressing intensity to extremly urgent from urgent

What I watched when I conceded the goal, that my team isnt pressing like I set up. Here are the situation:

A throw in for the opponent in is own half.

e5cd59f92e855574a4edb77da6dcfc3a.png

They play back to the defender and then to the gk.

e945d303a6c159e495645dd42ce56a00.png

GK play out to the defender

b3e784f7d3a7c0ce5fd668c9c79dc25c.png

And he plays a long ball to the inside forward who can cut inside because the fb defend stays at his postion and the bbm is not in place.

4919cb4992f0f1d891786d8e66f51740.png

So what do you think?

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