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Solskjaer tactic at Manchester United

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Anyone tried or had success recreating OGS tactic at Manchester United?
Started to thinking about it and decided to share my view so you can give me some feedback and spot any incoherences that I might have.

Team instructions:

  • Attacking
  • Slighty shorter passing
  • Higher tempo
  • Focus play down left
  • Play out of defense
  • Be more expressive
    (Perhaps shoot on sight?)
  • Counter-Press
  • Higher defensive line and much higher line of engagement
    (Perhaps standard defensive line and higher line of engagement?)
  • Prevent short GK distribution
  • Press slight more urgently

OI:

  • Fullback and wingbacks - pressing and direct to center (funnel inwards pressing)
  • Side midfielders and wingers - pressing and direct to line (funnel outwards pressing)
  • Central (defenders, defensive midfielders and midfielders) - marking

My intention is to force play through the sides, in defense the opposition would clear away or, if ball is played to the center of the field I would gain advantage due to marking and start a counter on the most dangerous zoneof the pitch.
On attack, I still want to force play through the sides but forcing the play to the line, cause the middle of the pitch would be the most dangerous zone - in this scenario - for my team.

Player roles:

De Gea - GK ( D )
Valencia - CWB ( S )
Baily and Lindelof - BPD ( D )
Shaw - WB ( S )
Matic - DLP ( D ) (on the center or at the DMCL spot?)
Herrera - CAR ( S ) at MCR spot or SV (S) at DMCR spot?
Pogba - MEZ ( A ) or CM ( A ) at CML spot?
Lingaard - AM (A) or AM (S) with get further forward at AMCR spot?
Martial - IF ( A )
Rashford - AF ( A )

So, anyone wanna join the discussion? I would appreciate your suggestions/feedback.
And I'm sorry in advance if something wasn't clear enough - I don't have all the answers, full of questions marks - and I don't play the game in english so I might fail some words here and there...

Edited by davidbarros2
Text formatting

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34 minutes ago, davidbarros2 said:

Matic - DLP ( D ) (on the center or at the DMCL spot?)
Herrera - CAR ( S ) at MCR spot or SV (S) at DMCR spot?
Pogba - MEZ ( A ) or CM ( A ) at CML spot?

What's your formation actually?

34 minutes ago, davidbarros2 said:

Baily and Lindelof - BPD ( D )

I don't think Bailly is a BPD. Lindelof probably is, but Bailly... umm

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This is my effort to start with. I have just beaten Chelsea 3-0 in my first game of the season, with my tactic creating 4 clear cut chances (And to be honest, there were more that the game didn't count. Martial missed 2 one on ones which was annoying).

2143403103_UnitedTactics.thumb.jpg.afe3cc5ef8d7d5b25c18431000e59d55.jpg

I am still in the process of building this tactic, so I might tweak things as I go. But I found in the game against Chelsea that Martial really pinned the defence back against the edge of the box, and even got played through twice with through balls. Mata dropped into pockets of space, almost becoming a 4th Centre mid at times, but it let Darmian scoot forward down the right into space time after time. If I had a better full back available then we might have scored more. Pogba played in a manner similar to how he does now, moving forward to the left hand side of the box and giving me a natural overlap with Tierney going outside and Sanchez running in, again with Martial pushing the Chelsea CB's deep.

 

Defensively I limited them to one CCC, and 5 shots on target, most of which were Hazard cutting inside and trying his luck from the edge of the box. As I was up against Hazard I kept Darmian on Fb (Su) just to make sure that he didnt have free reign, but didnt give him any other instructions. De Ligt was excellent in a BPD cover role, helping ensure that balls over the top were well dealt with. Herrera was a great pivot, but I can't wait to get Matic in there as he will be more reliable while I get full tactical familiarity.

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Pogba has mostly played as a no.10, with a free role which sees him drift to the left. So the shape is more of a 4-2-3-1.

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Resources such as whoscored.com can be a good starting point.  For example this is the match report for ManU vs Bournemouth.  Also worth checking Cleon's 4231 thread.

Lots of tabs to flick through to give you an idea of how they played, or to look at other matches.  I'm not sure about using the attacking mentality however, especially when combined with some of those TIs.

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On 12/01/2019 at 10:41, howard moon said:

Pogba has mostly played as a no.10, with a free role which sees him drift to the left. So the shape is more of a 4-2-3-1.

Ironically, he did play on the left of a 3 yesterday as OGS matched up against Tottenham’s system. 

Im still on FM17 so doubt I could replicate his role from yesterday as my best guess would be that he was a MEZ (a). 

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What role would you select for the fullbacks? I’m tempted to go for Shaw as a CWB-S, and Young as a FB/WB-A. 

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19 minutes ago, Codename47 said:

 

No disrespect herne as I 100% personally agree with you, but have a look here at this thread:

https://community.sigames.com/topic/465062-won-every-league-game-38-0-0/

Makes a mockery of the game.


 

I know and we can always find such tactics.  Throw enough **** at the barn and eventually some of it sticks ;).

However, personally I like the freedom of choice we have - we can choose to play the game in a sensible, logical manner or we can choose to simply try to beat the game by whatever means possible.  It may mock or not reflect real life, but not everyone wants that.  Different people play the game in different ways.  The issue is one of advice - you'll only tend to see people here offer advice on the former type of gameplay, because the advice is aimed at helping people understand tactics.  I guarantee you nobody understands how the latter type of tactic works (apart from my barn quote above :D).

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2 hours ago, jc577 said:

What role would you select for the fullbacks? I’m tempted to go for Shaw as a CWB-S, and Young as a FB/WB-A. 

Do you mean against Spurs? If so, I’d say Young WB (s) and Shaw FB (s). 

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2 hours ago, howard moon said:

Do you mean against Spurs? If so, I’d say Young WB (s) and Shaw FB (s). 

No I was referring to the 4/5 games before the Spurs game. Although that would be interesting to look into tactically as well.

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In my opinion against Spurs it was a strikerless system, a 4-3-3.

I'd have to try the formation in game but something like this would be my starting point

                                         DDG (GK-D)

Young(WB-S) - Jones (CD-D) - Lindelof (CD-D) - Shaw (FB-S)

                                      Matic (DLP-D)

        Herrera (not sure maybe RPM) - Pogba (Mez)

       Rashford (IF-A) - Lingard (F9 or AM-A) - Martial (W-S)

 

TI's

Pass Into space, Play out of defense, Distribute to full backs

Counter, counter press

Get stuck in.

 

Maybe a few more added when I see the match played out

 

 

Edited by Trevomac

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I’ve been thinking about this and I think the hardest thing to replicate is the positions of the front four (Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Lingard). 

Lingard plays from the right but moves inside and plays very central. Martial stays wide left whilst Rashford and Pogba gravitate to the left side. It leaves the team quite lop-sided which I’m not sure can be reproduced in the ME without playing an assymetric formation (which I’m always nervous of using as it feels like cheating. I know it’s not necessarily but because the AI doesnt use formations like this, it feels unfair).

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4 hours ago, howard moon said:

I’ve been thinking about this and I think the hardest thing to replicate is the positions of the front four (Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Lingard). 

Lingard plays from the right but moves inside and plays very central. Martial stays wide left whilst Rashford and Pogba gravitate to the left side. It leaves the team quite lop-sided which I’m not sure can be reproduced in the ME without playing an assymetric formation (which I’m always nervous of using as it feels like cheating. I know it’s not necessarily but because the AI doesnt use formations like this, it feels unfair).

The AI does use asymmetric formations from time to time and occasionally even goes strikerless.

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12 hours ago, VinceLombardi said:

The AI does use asymmetric formations from time to time and occasionally even goes strikerless.

I’ve not come across either sadly. It would make a change from 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-2-3.

As for the assymemtry in Solskjær’s tactics, I’m thinking of not having a right winger, but instead that player being an AMCR. In the 4-2-3-1 variant, Pogba would be an ACML. 

My worry would be that, as it’s not a ‘natural’ formation used by the AI, it could lead to unusual behaviour and could accidentally exploit AI teams by creating overloads that it’s not programmed to deal with. 

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Personally I wouldn't over complicate things.  A 4231 or a 433 (4141/4123 whatever it's bloody called these days) with Rashford up top, Pogba at AMC with licence to roam, Martial on the left who'll cut inside, Lingard right for some width and/or central support, 2 holding midfielders and supporting fullbacks.  Or for a 433 simply pull Pogba back to MC to make his runs forward from deep.

Whilst clearly not a traditional Trequartista, the combination of that role with Pogba's attributes would be pretty interesting...

Remember: when looking to recreate tactics don't think about how a team "usually" plays as they always play differently and thus everyone will have different opinions.  Focus in on one match - or even a part of one match - to get inspiration :thup:.

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I have attempted myself to create a set of tactics based on the three formations United have used so far under Solskjaer: 4-2-3-1, 4-1-2-3 and 4-1-2-1-2.

I'm not at my laptop right now (work getting in the way of FM as usual ...) but from the top of my head I have lined up as follows:

4-2-3-1 (Positive):

                                                      De Gea - GK (De)

Young - WB (Su)     Lindelof - BPD (De)     Jones - CD (De)     Shaw - WB (Su)

 

                               Herrera - BWM (De)     Matic - DLP (De)

Lindard - IF (Su)                           Pogba - AP (Su)                       Martial - IF (At)

                                                    Rashford - AF (At)

4-1-2-3 (Balanced):

                                                      De Gea - GK (De)

Young - WB (Su) ... Lindelof - BPD (De) ... Jones - CD (De) ... Shaw - WB (Su)

                                                     Matic - DLP (De)

                                Herrera - BWM (Su)   Pogba - MEZ (At)

Lingard - IF (Su)                                                                             Martial - IF (At)

                                                   Rashford - PF (At)

PIs: Lingard - Stay narrower and Martial - Stay wider

4-1-2-1-2 (Cautious):

                                                      De Gea - GK (De)

Young - WB (Su) ... Lindelof - BPD (De) ... Jones - CD (De) ... Shaw - FB (Su)

                                                     Matic - DLP (De)

                                Herrera - BWM (Su)   Pogba - MEZ (Su)

                                                    Lingard - SS (At)

                                 Rashford - PF (At)     Martial - PF (At)

PIs: Rashford and Martial - Stay wider and to mark the fullback on their side

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3 hours ago, herne79 said:

Whilst clearly not a traditional Trequartista, the combination of that role with Pogba's attributes would be pretty interesting...

Very much agree with this :thup:

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6 hours ago, herne79 said:

Personally I wouldn't over complicate things.  A 4231 or a 433 (4141/4123 whatever it's bloody called these days) with Rashford up top, Pogba at AMC with licence to roam, Martial on the left who'll cut inside, Lingard right for some width and/or central support, 2 holding midfielders and supporting fullbacks.  Or for a 433 simply pull Pogba back to MC to make his runs forward from deep.

Whilst clearly not a traditional Trequartista, the combination of that role with Pogba's attributes would be pretty interesting...

Remember: when looking to recreate tactics don't think about how a team "usually" plays as they always play differently and thus everyone will have different opinions.  Focus in on one match - or even a part of one match - to get inspiration :thup:.

When you say ‘holding midfielders’ do you mean in the DM or CM strata?

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3 hours ago, howard moon said:

When you say ‘holding midfielders’ do you mean in the DM or CM strata?

Either, whatever balances with how you see Utd playing.  If using the DM strata, one role could perhaps be a little more aggressive to help link up with the front 4.  The Herrera role is probably the key.

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Here is how I would interpret Solskjaer's starting tactic in the game against Arsenal this evening (talking specifically about this particular match, not his tactic in other games).

Roles and duties:

DLFsu

TQ               SS            WTMsu

DLPde       BBM

 

WBsu       CD      CD       WBde

GK

Mentality - Balanced

In possession - higher tempo, shorter passing, work ball into box, be more expressive

In transition - counter, distribute quickly (and just occasionally counter-press)

Out of possession - higher LOE

Player instructions:

ST - DLFsu (Rashford) - roam from position

AML - WTMsu (Lukaku) - sit narrower

Ergo, very simple and effective :)

 

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(versus Arsenal) I don't think Utd played a 9 & 10 or even two no.10s.  Lingard had a forward role; Pogba was playing in the standard midfield strata.  No one played a Treq role.  In fact there's not a lot I agree with @Experienced Defender :D however it's very subjective.  Formation may have been 4312 with split forwards.  Very similar to Spurs game.  In the other games under Ole I don't think they've wandered too far away from what is now 4141 with wide players in advanced positions.  Would need to have a think about but don't think I've seen any 4231 under Solsjkaer.

Edited by Robson 07

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It's quite possible I'm wrong. The starting tactic (formation) seemed to me like a 4231. In the second half tough, OGS changed it at some point to a 433 (4141dm wide in FM19), and in the finishing stage of the game - after Jones came in - he even switched to a 3/5 back-line (I think 5-2-3wb wide).

As for the analogy with the Spurs game, I think Utd were defending a lot better against Arsenal. Against the Spurs, it was De Gea that saved the day.

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i would say it was just his normal 4-3-3 tbh just he swapped roles for both Spurs and Arsenal games. overall i feel this is his normal rough go to and he allows the front 3 complete freedom which with the usual Rasford,Lingard and Martial that all life to move around works well. Pogba is Mezzila on attack hes playing the same role he was given at Juventus allowing him to link up with the front 3 but is dominantly more on the left side of the attack. against the earlier teams Rashford was closer to an advanced forward but i still feel his role was similar to an F9 as he did drop to allow the wingers into space.

one thing i would say is all 3 of the front no matter who is playing is told to run into channels

             GK

WBs CB BPD WBs

          DLPd

   Carillo Mezzila(attack)

IFa                      IFs

              F9

 

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1 hour ago, shadowraiden90 said:

 one thing i would say is all 3 of the front no matter who is playing is told to run into channels

 

Blessed be the fruit.

Wingers and IFs can't be told to move into channels, but otherwise I agree with the train of thought.

In general I think people are overthinking roles and formations in this thread. There are three core principles in OGS tactics:

1. Run at defence: At Molde, Cardiff and United, this is key and one of the inherited traits from his Fergie days.
2. Be more expressive. See above.
3. Shoot when you have the chance: Do not tick "work ball into box". There is a cool clip circulating on Twitter where he rips into his Molde players for being too passive in front of goal, do a google search and you'll find it.

I just simulated a full season with my interpretation and won the league, FA Cup and CL using different versions of this one:

                                     GK

WB(s/a)          CD(d)            BPD(d)           WB(d/s)

                                    DLP(d/s)

                  BBM/BMW(s)      AP(s/a)

W(s)/RMD/AP(s)                                             IF(a)

                                      DLF(a)

Team instructions are very basic, other than the previously mentioned non-negotiable traits I have added counter, distribute to centerbacks, distribute quickly. OOP; higher defensive line and LOE, more urgent and use offside trap. There are a few player instructions mixed in, but more related to individual players, i.e. Lingard will have different sets than Mata etc. Matic will be more supportive against inferior sides and the wingbacks more supportive as well.

Different instructions for tougher away games of course, like we saw against Arsenal and Tottenham - more conservative but not defensive.

The key is the Herrera role and balancing a super aggressive left hand side.

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6 minutes ago, CommanderWaterford said:

Blessed be the fruit.

Wingers and IFs can't be told to move into channels, but otherwise I agree with the train of thought.

In general I think people are overthinking roles and formations in this thread. There are three core principles in OGS tactics:

1. Run at defence: At Molde, Cardiff and United, this is key and one of the inherited traits from his Fergie days.
2. Be more expressive. See above.
3. Shoot when you have the chance: Do not tick "work ball into box". There is a cool clip circulating on Twitter where he rips into his Molde players for being too passive in front of goal, do a google search and you'll find it.

I just simulated a full season with my interpretation and won the league, FA Cup and CL using different versions of this one:

                                     GK

WB(s/a)          CD(d)            BPD(d)           WB(d/s)

                                    DLP(d/s)

                  BBM/BMW(s)      AP(s/a)

W(s)/RMD/AP(s)                                             IF(a)

                                      DLF(a)

Team instructions are very basic, other than the previously mentioned non-negotiable traits I have added counter, distribute to centerbacks, distribute quickly. OOP; higher defensive line and LOE, more urgent and use offside trap. There are a few player instructions mixed in, but more related to individual players, i.e. Lingard will have different sets than Mata etc. Matic will be more supportive against inferior sides and the wingbacks more supportive as well.

Different instructions for tougher away games of course, like we saw against Arsenal and Tottenham - more conservative but not defensive.

The key is the Herrera role and balancing a super aggressive left hand side.

yeah i was more just in general saying that he likes his forwards to attack the channels. cant set wingers/IF's with the instructions but generally they will do it in game.

 

i agree on alot of the people overcomplicating the roles and setup, hes trying to make it simple in order for the players to express themselves, he knows he has alot of talented players so why complicate things with too many instructions to players and i feel thats where Van Gaal and Mourinho was struggling they was trying way too much to control every single player and get rid of the player's ability to think for themselves and express themselves but issue is that may work with hard working but technical limited players it doesnt work when you have a team that is actually quite flair and technique focused like the United side is. a commentator put it well Mourinho was trying to play defensive with a very offensive built squad and it just doesnt work and ultimately cost him his job because he wasnt willing to adapt his setup to the players he had at that time(shame because at Inter and Madrid he did adapt to play a more expansive game at times especially Madrid where they played some breath taking football on road to breaking records)

 

overall Ole has gone back to basics. well trained defensive work and allowing the players to express themselves when they have the ball, its clear hes absorbed huge amounts from his time under Ferguson both as a player and then a coach.

its not ground breaking but i feel in the modern age where too many managers try to complicate things it could be a breath of fresh air in the long run seeing players given freedom to do what they do best.

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Could I replicate these tactics on FM18 ?

 

I see some of whats been posted mention OOP which I cant see as an option in FM18.

Edited by User0912

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43 minutes ago, User0912 said:

Could I replicate these tactics on FM18 ?

Absolutely!

43 minutes ago, User0912 said:

I see some of whats been posted mention OOP which I cant see as an option in FM18.

OOP = Out of possession. It denotes defensive team instructions in FM19 (d-line, line of engagement, pressing level, marking, tackling, offside trap and prevent short GKD). Except for the line of engagement, the rest exist in FM18 as well.

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2 hours ago, CommanderWaterford said:

Blessed be the fruit.

Wingers and IFs can't be told to move into channels, but otherwise I agree with the train of thought.

In general I think people are overthinking roles and formations in this thread. There are three core principles in OGS tactics:

1. Run at defence: At Molde, Cardiff and United, this is key and one of the inherited traits from his Fergie days.
2. Be more expressive. See above.
3. Shoot when you have the chance: Do not tick "work ball into box". There is a cool clip circulating on Twitter where he rips into his Molde players for being too passive in front of goal, do a google search and you'll find it.

I just simulated a full season with my interpretation and won the league, FA Cup and CL using different versions of this one:

                                     GK

WB(s/a)          CD(d)            BPD(d)           WB(d/s)

                                    DLP(d/s)

                  BBM/BMW(s)      AP(s/a)

W(s)/RMD/AP(s)                                             IF(a)

                                      DLF(a)

Team instructions are very basic, other than the previously mentioned non-negotiable traits I have added counter, distribute to centerbacks, distribute quickly. OOP; higher defensive line and LOE, more urgent and use offside trap. There are a few player instructions mixed in, but more related to individual players, i.e. Lingard will have different sets than Mata etc. Matic will be more supportive against inferior sides and the wingbacks more supportive as well.

Different instructions for tougher away games of course, like we saw against Arsenal and Tottenham - more conservative but not defensive.

The key is the Herrera role and balancing a super aggressive left hand side.

I’d agree with this except for the Matic role and the centre forward.

I don’t think Matic is a playmaker, more of a generic DM (defend or support), and the forward moves wide a lot - perhaps a complete forward on support?

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1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Absolutely!

OOP = Out of possession. It denotes defensive team instructions in FM19 (d-line, line of engagement, pressing level, marking, tackling, offside trap and prevent short GKD). Except for the line of engagement, the rest exist in FM18 as well.

Thanks

Can you tell me what on earth LOE stands for ?

Edited by User0912

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2 hours ago, User0912 said:

Thanks

Can you tell me what on earth LOE stands for ?

Line of Engagement which influences how deep (or high) play will be before they start to press.

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10 hours ago, howard moon said:

I’d agree with this except for the Matic role and the centre forward.

I don’t think Matic is a playmaker, more of a generic DM (defend or support), and the forward moves wide a lot - perhaps a complete forward on support?

Agreed. Matic really just provides coverage for the backline. And Rashford does a lot more than occupy the CBs and hold up the ball. He likes to drift, and take on defenders. I think he'd work as either an advanced forward or a complete forward.

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15 hours ago, howard moon said:

I’d agree with this except for the Matic role and the centre forward.

I don’t think Matic is a playmaker, more of a generic DM (defend or support), and the forward moves wide a lot - perhaps a complete forward on support?

watching the games i disagree Matic actually does move the ball forward as well as covering the back line which is essentially a deep lying playmaker on defence. doesnt mean hes one doing throughballs but he does have some control of the tempo especially against the weaker teams.

 

also the Deep Lying forward will move wide alot with the PPI to move into channels which is what Rashford does. 

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I've tried a few different variations to try and achieve what OGS is doing. 

The best I could come up with was a 4-3-3 formation utilising a Fluid-Counter Attacking (Attacking Mentality). Its still early stages but I've had some success replicating the style in a way. 

PF - At

Rashford

IF - Su                                                                           IF - Su

Martial                                                                          Lingard

DLP - De          AP - At           DLP - Su 

Matic               Pogba          Herrera

 

WB - Su            CB - De           BPD - De          WB - Su

Shaw                Jones              Lindelof              Young

 

SK - Su

De Gea

 

In Possession:

Slightly Shorter Passing

Pass Into Space

Run At Defence

Higher Tempo

 

In Transition:

Distribute Quickly

Counter

Counter-Press

 

Out of Possession:

Defend Narrower

Lower Line of Engagement

More Urgent

Get Stuck In

Use Tighter Marking

 

I've seen quite a few instances already whereby my players (especially the 3 forwards) were able to hit on the break. The reason why I actually use a Lower Line of Engagement is because I'm trying to draw the opposing defenders out so that there is space for my forwards to break in from behind. 

 

I'm still experimenting to see though. The 2 positions that I'm uncertain about is actually Pogba's and Herrera's. Pogba I had him in the middle as AP(At) in the hopes that he will get the ball and break through the middle or provide through passes to the forwards but he doesn't seem to be doing it regularly enough. Hoping to see if he's able to arrive into the box late for cut backs and such but although I've seen a couple of instances, the balls did not reach him thus far. Another is Herrera's. A DLP (Su) is probably not ideal, but I'm not too keen on using him as a BBM because I've attempted it before and it became rather lopsided in that he was breaking forward far too much. Might probably attempt to do so with him as a normal CM (Su) but will have to see. I'll probably have to check Be More Expressive aswell as to increase the passing range to be a little more direct. 

 

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On 31/01/2019 at 09:06, Euzio said:

I've tried a few different variations to try and achieve what OGS is doing. 

The best I could come up with was a 4-3-3 formation utilising a Fluid-Counter Attacking (Attacking Mentality). Its still early stages but I've had some success replicating the style in a way. 

PF - At

Rashford

IF - Su                                                                           IF - Su

Martial                                                                          Lingard

DLP - De          AP - At           DLP - Su 

Matic               Pogba          Herrera

 

WB - Su            CB - De           BPD - De          WB - Su

Shaw                Jones              Lindelof              Young

 

SK - Su

De Gea

 

In Possession:

Slightly Shorter Passing

Pass Into Space

Run At Defence

Higher Tempo

 

In Transition:

Distribute Quickly

Counter

Counter-Press

 

Out of Possession:

Defend Narrower

Lower Line of Engagement

More Urgent

Get Stuck In

Use Tighter Marking

 

I've seen quite a few instances already whereby my players (especially the 3 forwards) were able to hit on the break. The reason why I actually use a Lower Line of Engagement is because I'm trying to draw the opposing defenders out so that there is space for my forwards to break in from behind. 

 

I'm still experimenting to see though. The 2 positions that I'm uncertain about is actually Pogba's and Herrera's. Pogba I had him in the middle as AP(At) in the hopes that he will get the ball and break through the middle or provide through passes to the forwards but he doesn't seem to be doing it regularly enough. Hoping to see if he's able to arrive into the box late for cut backs and such but although I've seen a couple of instances, the balls did not reach him thus far. Another is Herrera's. A DLP (Su) is probably not ideal, but I'm not too keen on using him as a BBM because I've attempted it before and it became rather lopsided in that he was breaking forward far too much. Might probably attempt to do so with him as a normal CM (Su) but will have to see. I'll probably have to check Be More Expressive aswell as to increase the passing range to be a little more direct. 

 

Hi do you have any particular instructions set up for the players ?

Thanks

Edited by User0912

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I'm still playing fm18 ,  to replicate Solskjaer's tactic below just my 2 cents

4-1-2-3

 

TI'  - 

Attack  - attack is too aggressive either in game or irl , I would use control instead. 

Short passing - I don't think they are playing short , mix imo . 

High tempo - as I use control , the default tempo is good enough . 

Focus play down left - once I have Pogba and Martial on left , the team is already focus down to left . This TI is not necessary .

Play out of defense - they are not building up from back .

Be more expressive - I only use this when I try to knock down the bus . 

Counter press - don't have this option since I'm still on fm18 .

Higher defensive line - not really necessary , and I only use offside trap . 

Prevent GK - agreed . 

Press slight - don't have this option since I'm still on fm18.

 

* FM18 / TI what I'm using  -  prevent GK , pass into space , work ball into box , offside trap .

 

Player roles - 

I will only point serval players here . 

CB  - Man utd is not playing 2 BPD , 1 is good enough . 

Pogba -  APa is more fit to him since I'd like to see him use the ball often and become the key player .

CMa or MEZ is attacking the space , for sure will increase his goal but the ball is not building around him then .

Herrera -  he is BBM or BWM depends on the opponent

Rashford - CFa imo , because he drops deep to bring the ball up . 

 

Edited by z464

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On 06/02/2019 at 20:14, User0912 said:

Hi do you have any particular instructions set up for the players ?

Thanks

Only shoot less often for the 3 midfielders. 

 

That said though, I've run into trouble when facing opposition who defend very deep and look to control possession. And my midfielders still take pot shots way too often rather than go for the more obvious pass. I tried to experiment by switching Herrera to a BBM and Pogba as an AP-A on the left of the three instead. They end up taking way more shots than all of my 3 forwards combined.... Herrera especially, when I experimented with him as a BBM, he ended up having 18 shots on goal (barely any on target and none went in obviously). I'm still having major issues with the forward movement as well. PF, AF and CF doesn't seem to work out consistently with Rashford usually not being involved enough in the build up play. Will probably try him as a DLF-A to see if it can help but I doubt given the way Strikers in general behave in this years FM. 

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6 hours ago, Euzio said:

Only shoot less often for the 3 midfielders. 

 

That said though, I've run into trouble when facing opposition who defend very deep and look to control possession. And my midfielders still take pot shots way too often rather than go for the more obvious pass. I tried to experiment by switching Herrera to a BBM and Pogba as an AP-A on the left of the three instead. They end up taking way more shots than all of my 3 forwards combined.... Herrera especially, when I experimented with him as a BBM, he ended up having 18 shots on goal (barely any on target and none went in obviously). I'm still having major issues with the forward movement as well. PF, AF and CF doesn't seem to work out consistently with Rashford usually not being involved enough in the build up play. Will probably try him as a DLF-A to see if it can help but I doubt given the way Strikers in general behave in this years FM. 

Rashford has the PPM ‘tries to beat offside trap’ (from what I remember) so playing him with an attack duty will mean he won’t get involved in the build up. Instead he’ll always be looking to play on the shoulder of the last defender which is almost impossible against deep defensive lines. 

He needs to be on a support duty, with roaming and moves into channels enabled. 

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26 minutes ago, howard moon said:

Rashford has the PPM ‘tries to beat offside trap’ (from what I remember) so playing him with an attack duty will mean he won’t get involved in the build up. Instead he’ll always be looking to play on the shoulder of the last defender which is almost impossible against deep defensive lines. 

He needs to be on a support duty, with roaming and moves into channels enabled. 

This.

But even on support, he still plays on the shoulder of the last defender, though he is will to drop a little deeper in the build up. I've tried to unlearn that but he is not willing to.

Herrera will always shoot when he has a chance, so I got him playing BWM/CM-D.

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Rashford’s PPM means he’ll be deadly against any team that plays a high line. Against a deeper defence, the build up needs to be different as through balls will be less effective. This is where the width provided by Martial and the full backs becomes important. 

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For what it’s worth, my interpretation of the roles is something like this in a 4-1-2-3:

De Gea: GK

 

Young: WB (s) - stay wide

Lindelof: BPD (d)

Jones/Bailly: CB (d)

Shaw: WB (s)

 

Herrera: CM (s)

Matic: DM (d)

Pogba: Mez (s/a) (I am still on FM17 so have never used this role, but to me it describes Pogba’s current role perfectly, on 17 I’d go with AP (a) or CM (a) with roaming)

 

Lingard: TQ (a) (again, I can’t use this role in FM17 but it should give the best approximation of Lingard’s movement)

Rashford: CF (s)

Martial: IF (s/a)

 

With the diamond formation, Rashford and Martial would be IF (a) (or maybe Ramdeuter for Rashford) with Lingard as a F9.

Edited by howard moon

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I think things stylistically are becoming a bit clearer under Ole and it's a sea-change really in comparison to Mourinho's time at the club.  One of the more obvious things yesterday against Fulham is that the strikers (Martial, Lukaku & Mata) didn't really track back at all.  They let their men go and stayed high up the pitch awaiting for a turnover in possession and a counter attack opportunity.  In FM terms that probably all three using an "attack" role.  Attack roles as part of a positive/attack system.

Clearly under Jose, and I think part of Martial almost sulking or not playing under him, the wide forwards were made to track back and double up defending on the flanks.  They were being given support roles in a defensive/counter system.

The response in the players to this contrast in style is fascinating just as it is when applying such things to FM.

Other things that Utd are doing which fit an Attack Mentality are tempo, speed of transition to attack, risk and looking for chances rather than just holding possession.  Fulham submitted to this approach pretty quickly which hasn't happened to Utd a great deal in quite a while.  The interesting thing as we all know is to see whether the same approach is viable against the better teams starting with PSG.

Fulham match was something like:

GK defend

WB support x 2

CD defend x 2

Defensive mid defend

Box to Box support

Mez attack

Advanced PM attack

Inside Fwd attack

Advanced Fwd attack

Team Mentality - Attack.

 

 

 

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In other words something like this (ignore a couple of names in the lineup e.g. Mata not Lingard).  Also I'm aware most people prefer a Mez underlapping a Winger but for me it was the roles used in that game.

226123824_ManchesterUnited_Overview-3.thumb.png.55c9d084ad22af532455de5b06df5f7b.png

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On 08/02/2019 at 18:13, MadOnion said:

This.

But even on support, he still plays on the shoulder of the last defender, though he is will to drop a little deeper in the build up. I've tried to unlearn that but he is not willing to.

Herrera will always shoot when he has a chance, so I got him playing BWM/CM-D.

 

Actually I quite like the fact he plays on the shoulder of the last defender. He has scored crucial goals against the other top teams in alot of my games because we hit them hard on the counter. But I'll try him on support duty. Think given his real life playstyle, it fits in as well. 

 

On 08/02/2019 at 18:35, howard moon said:

Rashford’s PPM means he’ll be deadly against any team that plays a high line. Against a deeper defence, the build up needs to be different as through balls will be less effective. This is where the width provided by Martial and the full backs becomes important. 

Agreed. But I do find that midfielders in this game still take too many pot shots from range even though they could and should be holding off and making the pass. Its like in this game, there is barely any situation in which they attempt to play passes to the forwards feet. Instead, they'll just let fly from range. Pogba in my game scores a fair amount of goals but when compared to the ratio of the amount of shots he's taking, its very inefficient. He can sometimes easily account for more than half the shots my entire team takes. 

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p.s.

I have used the Solsjkaer tactic I posted above and with Utd it works very well indeed.

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@zlatanera about a season and a half.  It won the Champions League.  Pogba from Mez got bucket loads, so too Martial from IF and Rashford up top.  Lingard from the right the main provider of assists.  Put in your own set pieces and it's a pretty strong FM tactic, at least with a big side.  Also fairly Solsjkaer style.:thup:

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59 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

@zlatanera about a season and a half.  It won the Champions League.  Pogba from Mez got bucket loads, so too Martial from IF and Rashford up top.  Lingard from the right the main provider of assists.  Put in your own set pieces and it's a pretty strong FM tactic, at least with a big side.  Also fairly Solsjkaer style.:thup:

Cool, might give it a try at some point! I like my 442 I made a thread about, but there's just something glorious about Anthony Martial cutting in off the left wing and curling one in the far corner, whether in real life or "a glorified spreadsheet". Also it was very much geared towards getting the most out of the two forwards and wingers - Pogba only cracked 10 per season due to penalties. 

 

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Below is half season of 2021/22.  Wouldn't normally play as Utd although a fan but I had a little go when Mourinho was doing so badly irl and then changed to a Solsjkaer replica tactic shortly into last season and kept it going as I was interested in how it would perform.

Last season Pogba scored 19 league goals in 27 games.  This season it's Martial's turn, in all games to date he has scored 20 from 29 games, plus 14 assists.

46248709_MarkHanson_Home.png.2f623e22f7799d98ff84a8ffda3239aa.png

Our goal difference (56), above, is made from 68 scored and 12 conceded.  In this particular tactic there are no PIs or OIs and I have played with it regardless of home or away etc.

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