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jackannes

Long range screamers

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Reading through some posts on here, I see that when the game was released there was an issue with a lack of variety in goals scored, namely long range goals.

I've only recently bought the game, but I've noticed a ridiculous amount of them. It started in my friendly games, where it was one of my players who scored a few belters against weaker opposition. Even at that point I was thinking it was a bit silly. Now I'm playing league games, I am the victim of these long rangers. It's not just my own opinion either, the commentary reflects the nature of the goals with the usual 'Ooooh what a goal!' remarks. This is genuinely happening to me at least once every 2 games, but more often than not every game. It's really putting me off playing the game, notably as it has meant I have drawn 5 out of 8 league games so far. 

Is this a common experience? I'm thinking maybe they tried to rectify early concerns about a lack of screamers and have subsequently gone too far the other way. 

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Yes, I notice this too. Long shots are what I use to score goals against teams that park the bus. It is so successful, that I dont need to break through their defense. 

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1 hour ago, jackannes said:

I'm thinking maybe they tried to rectify early concerns about a lack of screamers and have subsequently gone too far the other way. 

No-one knows for sure, but it certainly looks that way.

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14 hours ago, rdbayly said:

These injury time 35 yard free kick winners are getting real old, real fast.

Especially when you have 35 shots with 18 on target, to their 3 with 1 on target :seagull:

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Yeah there's probably too many...its made Andreas Pereira one of the most deadly players in the game imo because he has high free kicks, technique, long shots and flair. But before it seemed almost impossible to break teams down. I guess this is kinda half-way between still not being able to break teams down, and completely ruining defensive football (like all previous FMs I've played where it seemed like you couldn't play defensively, the best way to a clean sheet seemed to be sterile possession football).

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Lots of people posted about it. Clearly an issue within the game. Not a peep from any of the SI team though. Means they most likely won’t fix it until next FM. 

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Seems like something you'd be able to counter by closing down the opposite teams long-range threats? Tight marking, force unto weak foot, close down more - something like that? 

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22 hours ago, Baodan said:

Seems like something you'd be able to counter by closing down the opposite teams long-range threats? Tight marking, force unto weak foot, close down more - something like that? 

Perhaps? I generally have more of an issue of I feel like I score too many, and I play a reasonably intense pressing system (Attacking mentality) with a high rep team (Man Utd), so we face teams that tend to sit trying to soak up pressure, which opens up opportunities for my CMs and WP to unload from the edge of the area. When I do concede them they tend to be as part of counter-attacks, i.e. turnover, ball goes down one wing, diagonal towards the opposite edge of my box, guy takes a touch and curls it in rather than being closed down. Much as it frustrates me to concede like that, you do see something similar in real life - if the GK is the only man between them and goal and it seems easier to bend it round them from distance rather than dribble in, I'm sure I've seen Anthony Martial do it. 

I do worry that there might be a perception bias with long shots though - they're more memorable by default than headers off crosses so we feel like they make up a higher proportion than they do.

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On 06/01/2019 at 11:22, zlatanera said:

Yeah there's probably too many...its made Andreas Pereira one of the most deadly players in the game imo because he has high free kicks, technique, long shots and flair. But before it seemed almost impossible to break teams down. I guess this is kinda half-way between still not being able to break teams down, and completely ruining defensive football (like all previous FMs I've played where it seemed like you couldn't play defensively, the best way to a clean sheet seemed to be sterile possession football).

Don't think the attributes matter... I'm 10 games in... My two rbs playing iwb rotating both have 3 in 7 from long shots... My bwm with ppm looks for pass and has 8 in long shots has 4 in 7 all long shots... My bbm has a couple, my iw has a couple... And my striker has a few from long shots and a few from rebounds of long shots. 

I'm RBL playing on attacking also with high line and urgent press. Seems like 70% or more of my goals are a square pass and then one touch spank in the corner. Or half volleys after a cross is headed out. 

The other 30% mostly consisting of pens, corners and dfk. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

Don't think the attributes matter... I'm 10 games in... My two rbs playing iwb rotating both have 3 in 7 from long shots... My bwm with ppm looks for pass and has 8 in long shots has 4 in 7 all long shots... My bbm has a couple, my iw has a couple... And my striker has a few from long shots and a few from rebounds of long shots. 

I'm RBL playing on attacking also with high line and urgent press. Seems like 70% or more of my goals are a square pass and then one touch spank in the corner. Or half volleys after a cross is headed out. 

The other 30% mostly consisting of pens, corners and dfk. 

Extremely negative AI mentality is leading to inflated numbers of goals from distance. First season in the championship with Leeds, the AI parked the bus in about 90% of matches, leaving oceans of space just outside the area. I scored 40 goals from long range! As you rightly say, the majority of goals originate from: throw-in -> square ball -> short diagonal dribble -> missile into top corner.

My first season in the Premier League and teams are attacking me. This has fundamentally changed how I can use space, meaning I'm scoring most of my goals from sweeping counter attacks rather than from distance. AI mentality is the key variable here.

I had doubts from day 1 that the AI would make effective use of the new tactical tools; this is felt most acutely with how it employs defensive shape. 

 

Edited by rdbayly

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1 minute ago, rdbayly said:

AI mentality is the key variable here.

Agree. 

But that variable should be the number of long range efforts. 

Still seeing crazy goals from players that A shouldn't be shooting due to role, ppm, ti, pi... And B shouldn't score even if they had 50 attempts from 30 yards as they don't have the attributes (technique, composure, long shots, finishing etc) 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Agree. 

But that variable should be the number of long range efforts. 

Still seeing crazy goals from players that A shouldn't be shooting due to role, ppm, ti, pi... And B shouldn't score even if they had 50 attempts from 30 yards as they don't have the attributes (technique, composure, long shots, finishing etc) 

Shot in the dark - When the default AI behaviour is to retreat deeper and narrower to such extremes, central play and the penalty area become unlikely sources of goals. At this point, FM has painted itself into a corner. For example, let's say FM has calculated under the hood that the result is a 3-0 win. The game has to show 3 goals being scored, so what are its go-to maneuvers? I'd argue: 1) non-existent defending from set pieces 2) goals from long range. 

I'm perhaps being facetious, but this is what it feels like from a user's perspective.

 

Edited by rdbayly

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5 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

Don't think the attributes matter... I'm 10 games in... My two rbs playing iwb rotating both have 3 in 7 from long shots... My bwm with ppm looks for pass and has 8 in long shots has 4 in 7 all long shots... My bbm has a couple, my iw has a couple... And my striker has a few from long shots and a few from rebounds of long shots. 

I'm RBL playing on attacking also with high line and urgent press. Seems like 70% or more of my goals are a square pass and then one touch spank in the corner. Or half volleys after a cross is headed out. 

The other 30% mostly consisting of pens, corners and dfk. 

"Seems like" is the key thing here. I think we all need to go into our games and look at the stats...although as a Mac user I have the issue of never having goals outside the box show up on that section in tactics that shows where they come from.

Lax defending off throw-ins might be a separate issue exacerbating it - you tend to see a lot where it goes throw -> short pass -> square pass -> edge of the box screamer as the defence just stands completely still. If the defending was better, that would reduce the opportunity for the long shot there. 

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I started a thread a while ago about the lack of long range goals scores for or against me, I think they have rectified it to the point where it is too overpowered now. Such is life

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1 hour ago, zlatanera said:

Seems like" is the key thing here. I think we all need to go into our games and look at the stats

The stats are misleading to an extent. The goals and assists panel simply doesn't tie up a lot of the time

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I had a bit of a spat in a thread prior to one of the updates where someone had complained that it was near on impossible to break down defences and score from central positions. I said they were wrong as my team was doing so regularly and therefore saw no problem with the game. 

Since the last update however, it seems like 75% of goals i'm seeing are from outside of the box. I'm currently playing in the Vanarama South and some of the goals are incredible. Not to say there's no quality goals at that level, but players seem able to strike a ball as well as any elite level player several times an in-game month. 

I don't know the details of the last update and what changed, but I certainly think that SI made changes to accommodate the people moaning about breaking down defences and it's lead to the current state of play. I don't think it's game breaking at the moment, but it's certainly starting to wear a bit thin.

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18 hours ago, wattzy said:

I had a bit of a spat in a thread prior to one of the updates where someone had complained that it was near on impossible to break down defences and score from central positions. I said they were wrong as my team was doing so regularly and therefore saw no problem with the game. 

Since the last update however, it seems like 75% of goals i'm seeing are from outside of the box. I'm currently playing in the Vanarama South and some of the goals are incredible. Not to say there's no quality goals at that level, but players seem able to strike a ball as well as any elite level player several times an in-game month. 

I don't know the details of the last update and what changed, but I certainly think that SI made changes to accommodate the people moaning about breaking down defences and it's lead to the current state of play. I don't think it's game breaking at the moment, but it's certainly starting to wear a bit thin.

Totally agree, even worse in the lower leagues. You should see some of the free kicks. 5 games in a row, crisp precision! 

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I think a lot of the issue has to do with defending and closing down. Most of the long shot goals I see come from defenders giving attackers way too much room to run up and take a crack. It's possible that if defenders were this poor at shutting down shooting lanes IRL you'd see just as many long shot goals.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, headshothitman said:

Totally agree, even worse in the lower leagues. You should see some of the free kicks. 5 games in a row, crisp precision! 

Yeah I've been following some YouTube creators and their non-league below Conference North/South sides appear to be deadly outside of the box (although maybe these games are on Key Highlights.. and don't show all the poor/missed attempts? I might have to try watching on Comprehensive/Full Game)

Edited by Dan_987

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Posted (edited)

I haven't seen that many scored against my team, but I have scored a few more than I would have suspected.  It's obvious to me that it happens when my opponent is sitting back with a deep defensive line.  I usually tick the box on my B2B midfielders to take more shots as well.  I get about 12 shots 20 yards out or further a season.  That doesn't seem out of the ordinary quite yet.  I almost never surrender them, but my midfield has very good positioning, aggression, and acceleration.  I also rarely play with a deep defensive line.  I'm playing as Fiorentina in Italy and only in my 3rd season.

Edited by Enos

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6 hours ago, Dan_987 said:

 (although maybe these games are on Key Highlights.. and don't show all the poor/missed attempts? I might have to try watching on Comprehensive/Full Game)

This might be important - I'm averaging 30 shots a game with my current tactic against weaker sides, with about 20 of those from outside of the box and at least 1 will end up going in. So similar to last FM except then more of them were shots from a crossing position which is what frustrated us all.

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Funny thing is that after I wrote my post yesterday I had a Champion's League match against PSG and they beat me 2-1 on a last minute screamer from 30 yards!  I hadn't seen that yet.  I set myself up for it.

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Hello all,

Not forum active usually but this year seems to have unloaded a whole host of interesting queries on the tactics front, especially combined with the training overhaul...

I HAD this same problem, hoping this might help - always coming through games with 30 - 40 shots / 20 on target to opposition 3 - 4. I solved this by slowing highlights to full match and noticed my tactics were to blame. I was trying to play high pressing attacking, almost tiki-taka football.... the issues was I got the forwards and ATM roles incorrect which resulted in just a player congestion in the box. Players knocking it around with striker covered in 3 - 4 defenders and no room between defence and keeper for through balls. Speed the play up and 1 - 2 forwards isolated against defence, at this point I am raging....

The forward roles I had were too similar with similar player types - resulting in Ball going to 1 or 2 CM's on edge of box for most of nearly all games just hammering shots - nothing wrong with the game although it looks like there is if you only watching short highlights (you don't see the problem). After watching full game, and changing 2 IF's to 1 attacking AP, his movement and positions are different on both sides, pulling defences out of shape better. The final bit blew my mind.... By dropping my 10 and adding a DM - the formation pushes so high, the DM as Registra sits in the middle of opposition half and works as passing pin for team, CM's have a 3rd option to pass and switch play whilst defence is changing shape... the results are phenomenal - around 12 games unbeaten, most assists from short passes in the area! - Total shots down to 5- 9  per game in matches I dominate, opponents down to normal as well. Scoring really good goals and mostly through a single AF!

I believe problem stems as if you have 40 shots from 30 yards.... one or two are going in as long as the players are even half decent... don't forget the are all professional players!

So happy with outcome I posted tactic on steam workshop ( https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1622673126

Please take a look and by all means adapt/change and let me know your thoughts and results, really hoping this helps you guys as well as I was close to uninstall and been playing since FM2010 A LOT (2000+ hours some years)


 

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