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lim

need help with stoke tactic to get promotion

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Hi all,

Currently started a new game on FM19 with my beloved Stoke city. The aim is to get them promoted to the premiership, we are odds on favorites to do so and with a team like stoke which has some premiership quality players shouldn't be a problem. However I am 6 games in and struggling to score/make chances for my forwards.

 

Below is my tactic and some stats from matches, if anyone could shed some light see if anything is obviously wrong with it that would be a great help/advice to me.

 

I am trying to ping through balls into afobe to latch onto and score...But also want to revolve the play around Bojan as i believe he is one of the most technically gifted players I have.

 

tactic.jpg

match stats.jpg

match stats 2.jpg

Edited by lim

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Before I could give you any meaningful advice, I need to ask a couple of questions:

- why have you set attacking width to wide, given that your formation is already lacking bodies in the central midfield area (plus your both wide mids are wingers, which is the most attack-minded role in that position and also tends to use the widest areas of the pitch)?

- what's the idea behind the following instructions: higher tempo, more direct passing, counter-press and lower LOE? Neither of these is either right or wrong in and of themselves, just want to learn more about your tactical reasoning.

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42 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Before I could give you any meaningful advice, I need to ask a couple of questions:

- why have you set attacking width to wide, given that your formation is already lacking bodies in the central midfield area (plus your both wide mids are wingers, which is the most attack-minded role in that position and also tends to use the widest areas of the pitch)?

- what's the idea behind the following instructions: higher tempo, more direct passing, counter-press and lower LOE? Neither of these is either right or wrong in and of themselves, just want to learn more about your tactical reasoning.

 

The reason I set it to wide is so that it benefits my wingers, i guess three a cross the midfield leaves big gaps?

 

Higher tempo and direct passing go hand in hand right?, and LOE and counter press so that we can hit teams on the break fast

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3 hours ago, lim said:

The reason I set it to wide is so that it benefits my wingers, i guess three a cross the midfield leaves big gaps?

If you played a standard (flat) 442, then playing wide with the classic winger roles would make more sense. But in this case it can be counter-productive, not least because the wingers could often end up a bit isolated from the rest of the team. Just one example of how a decent setup of roles & duties in a wide 4312 system may look:

AF     PFs

TQ

IWs         CMd       WPs

 

FBs     CD     CD      FBa

3 hours ago, lim said:

Higher tempo and direct passing go hand in hand right?

Yes. If you want to play a simple and fast attacking / counter-attacking football, and provided your players are capable of playing such a style. I personally prefer such a type of football than a slow and patient possession game.

 

4 hours ago, lim said:

LOE and counter press so that we can hit teams on the break fast

The lower LOE coupled with more urgent pressing is a good idea for that style of football, but counter-press may well not be, and for 2 reasons: one is the defensive risk caused by too many players rushing into pressing at the same time; the other is that by using counter-press, you are actually reducing the opportunity for your team to play counter-attacks (because you need to draw the opposition onto you before winning the ball back and launching a quick counter, rather than trying to win possession as soon as you've lost it).

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On 29/12/2018 at 19:47, Experienced Defender said:

If you played a standard (flat) 442, then playing wide with the classic winger roles would make more sense. But in this case it can be counter-productive, not least because the wingers could often end up a bit isolated from the rest of the team. Just one example of how a decent setup of roles & duties in a wide 4312 system may look:

AF     PFs

TQ

IWs         CMd       WPs

 

FBs     CD     CD      FBa

Yes. If you want to play a simple and fast attacking / counter-attacking football, and provided your players are capable of playing such a style. I personally prefer such a type of football than a slow and patient possession game.

 

The lower LOE coupled with more urgent pressing is a good idea for that style of football, but counter-press may well not be, and for 2 reasons: one is the defensive risk caused by too many players rushing into pressing at the same time; the other is that by using counter-press, you are actually reducing the opportunity for your team to play counter-attacks (because you need to draw the opposition onto you before winning the ball back and launching a quick counter, rather than trying to win possession as soon as you've lost it).

Ok I think I got it. 

 

 If I wanted to play a lone striker, does he need to be on a support duty to link up play with the rest of the team? 

I'm thinking of playing a possession based system. 4-2-3-1.

 

Something like this :

 

Fb s.                    Winger a

CD d.    BWM S

Gk                            treq a.       AF A

CD d.   Dlp D

Fb a.                   WP s

 

The reason I ask is afobes best position is advanced forward so would make sense to play your best attacking player in his best role? 

 

Edited by lim
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32 minutes ago, lim said:

The reason I ask is afobes best position is advanced forward so would make sense to play your best attacking player in his best role? 

Is it his "best" role according to the game (the green circle) or based on his attributes and traits? On that score, could you post a screenshot of his player profile?

 

34 minutes ago, lim said:

I'm thinking of playing a possession based system. 4-2-3-1.

 

Something like this :

 

Fb s.                    Winger a

CD d.    BWM S

Gk                            treq a.       AF A

CD d.   Dlp D

Fb a.                   WP s

You mean a standard 4231 (with 2 CMs and 3 guys behind the lone striker) or an asymmetric one? I am asking because WP is a wide midfield role, not available in AMR/L positions.

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8 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Is it his "best" role according to the game (the green circle) or based on his attributes and traits? On that score, could you post a screenshot of his player profile?

 

You mean a standard 4231 (with 2 CMs and 3 guys behind the lone striker) or an asymmetric one? I am asking because WP is a wide midfield role, not available in AMR/L positions.

 

Yea what i meant was Advanced play-maker in the AMR strata.

 

I have attached Afobes player profile

AFOBE.jpg

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1 hour ago, lim said:

 

Yea what i meant was Advanced play-maker in the AMR strata.

 

I have attached Afobes player profile

AFOBE.jpg

Afobe can play as an AF based on his attributes, though I would rather use him as a DLF on attack in a possession-based 4231 you want to play.

 

10 hours ago, lim said:

Something like this :

 

Fb s.                    Winger a

CD d.    BWM S

Gk                            treq a.       AF A

CD d.   Dlp D

Fb a.                   WP s

It's not recommendable to have so many attack duties up front in a top-heavy system like 4231, and particularly not if you want to play possession football. Having an APM on the flank is a good idea, provided you have a suitable player for the role. However, if you want to use a trequartista, I would rather play him on the other flank (AML) than in the middle (AMC). 

Potentially, a possession-based 4231 with Afobe as the lone striker and an APsup and TQ on the flanks could be set up in this way:

DLFat

TQ         AMsu         APsu

DLPde    BBM

WBsu    CD    CD     FBsu 

GK/SK

But this is just one of various possible options. You can also use Afobe as a PF (either on support or attack) for example. Everything depends on what types of players you have in different positions. 

And what's your idea on team instructions and mentality? 

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15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Afobe can play as an AF based on his attributes, though I would rather use him as a DLF on attack in a possession-based 4231 you want to play.

 

It's not recommendable to have so many attack duties up front in a top-heavy system like 4231, and particularly not if you want to play possession football. Having an APM on the flank is a good idea, provided you have a suitable player for the role. However, if you want to use a trequartista, I would rather play him on the other flank (AML) than in the middle (AMC). 

Potentially, a possession-based 4231 with Afobe as the lone striker and an APsup and TQ on the flanks could be set up in this way:

DLFat

TQ         AMsu         APsu

DLPde    BBM

WBsu    CD    CD     FBsu 

GK/SK

But this is just one of various possible options. You can also use Afobe as a PF (either on support or attack) for example. Everything depends on what types of players you have in different positions. 

And what's your idea on team instructions and mentality? 

Thanks I was thinking positive mentality. 

 

Why would you play the treq on the wing rather than down the middle? 

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7 minutes ago, lim said:

Why would you play the treq on the wing rather than down the middle?

In this system I would rather play him on the wing because you said you want to play possession-based football. So a TQ on the flank would be a better choice than a winger (assuming you want to use a TQ as a role anyway). Of course, you don't have to use a TQ and can instead use an IF. But the point is that wingers tend to isolate themselves by running wide, which generally does not go hand in hand with a possession tactic.

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2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

In this system I would rather play him on the wing because you said you want to play possession-based football. So a TQ on the flank would be a better choice than a winger (assuming you want to use a TQ as a role anyway). Of course, you don't have to use a TQ and can instead use an IF. But the point is that wingers tend to isolate themselves by running wide, which generally does not go hand in hand with a possession tactic.

Thanks for that... You mention about having too many attack duties which will make it a top heavy system. How many is too many exactly? 

 

In terms of defensive line and loe I was thinking a standard defensive line and lower loe so that when my team wins the ball back they can counter and hit balls over the top to afobe to run onto is this a good way of thinking? 

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1 hour ago, lim said:

You mention about having too many attack duties which will make it a top heavy system. How many is too many exactly?

No, you misunderstood me. Attack duties will not make it top-heavy, because it's already top-heavy (in terms of formation). My recommendation is to use no more than 2 attack duties for the front four players in 4231, and no more than 3 overall. For example, you can have AMR and AMC on attack, but AML and ST on support. Or AML and ST on attack, but AMR and AMC on support. And so on. But you need to set roles and duties logically, not randomly. If you want to play possession football, then more support duties are recommended. In 4231 specifically, none of the 2 CMs should be on attack duty, because there is no defensive cover behind them and because there aren't other players in that line of the team.

 

1 hour ago, lim said:

In terms of defensive line and loe I was thinking a standard defensive line and lower loe so that when my team wins the ball back they can counter and hit balls over the top to afobe to run onto is this a good way of thinking? 

That's more suitable for counter-attacking football. But for a possession style, you generally need higher lines. Again, depends on your players and their qualities (i.e. strengths and weaknesses). Apart from Afobe, I don't know your other players, so cannot tell you what would be a good setting for your team.

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