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The Dude

19.2.1 : Team Performances Nosedive

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I wonder what goes into 'stability fixes'? 

I've gone from caning the league and cups pre 19.2.1 to an inexplicable series of poor results after installing the update.  

Anyone else having issues?

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Managing Villa. Before the update: out of seven matches, six wins, and one defeat (to PSG). On course for finishing 4th in the Prem. After update: four draws to poor teams, one defeat to a poor team, finished 6th. Tactics tried and tested for several seasons; now this.

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Stability fixes are fixes to make the game more stable, so fixes crashing issues, slow down problems and the like.

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Ah, okay. 

I'm blaming it on the Fix for Romanian U22 Homegrown Registration Rule  then.

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11 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Ah, okay. 

I'm blaming it on the Fix for Romanian U22 Homegrown Registration Rule  then.

Yep- that will be the issue for sure:D

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Just now, FrazT said:

Yep- that will be the issue for sure:D

I KNEW IT!

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Just now, The Dude said:

I KNEW IT!

Behind closed doors and dont even mention it to a soul, it is a known issue that the changes to the homegrown rules in Romania will certainly impact on your tactics in the Championship.;)

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1 minute ago, FrazT said:

Behind closed doors and dont even mention it to a soul, it is a known issue that the changes to the homegrown rules in Romania will certainly impact on your tactics in the Championship.;)

Dude, people can READ what you said.  The SI-Cops will be comin for ya.

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1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Dude, people can READ what you said.  The SI-Cops will be comin for ya.

I am the SI cops!

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Following the fix I went from winning roughly 2 points per game to less than 1 point per game. 

Players suddenly couldn’t finish and my team started shipping lots of goals. 

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1 hour ago, FrazT said:

I am the SI cops!

No, dude.  They TELL YOU you're the SI Cops.  You're not the SI Cops; you're just the front man for your crypto-fascist puppet masters.  

Jeez, it's like 1984 was never written! 

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38 minutes ago, Iutbsco said:

Following the fix I went from winning roughly 2 points per game to less than 1 point per game. 

Players suddenly couldn’t finish and my team started shipping lots of goals. 

It is bizarre that both your game and my game saw a nosedive at exactly the same time.  I accept nothing has changed on the ME, if that's what the Mods say, but I am flummoxed by what's happened with my team.  I mean, I know there are ups and downs and all kinds of complications - I have absolutely caned every version of the game since 97-98.  But it's like the team went off a cliff in the last few matches this season.  I haven't seen such a dramatic collapse since... well, many years ago when I was still learning the game. 

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Hmm.  I've just beaten WBA 3-1 in the FA Cup final.  Go figure. 

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2 hours ago, FrazT said:

There were absolutely no  changes to the ME in the latest update

Doesn’t have to be to affect performance. 

Changes to interactions between players, coaches manager could have an impact. Also, I’ve noticed a complete change in the advice my assistant gave when it came to team talks, suggesting something there has changed. 

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28 minutes ago, Iutbsco said:

Doesn’t have to be to affect performance. 

Changes to interactions between players, coaches manager could have an impact. Also, I’ve noticed a complete change in the advice my assistant gave when it came to team talks, suggesting something there has changed. 

Interesssting...

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32 minutes ago, Iutbsco said:

Doesn’t have to be to affect performance. 

Changes to interactions between players, coaches manager could have an impact. Also, I’ve noticed a complete change in the advice my assistant gave when it came to team talks, suggesting something there has changed. 

None of which changed either.

There's no conspiracy theory here, you've just latched onto a placebo.

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1 minute ago, forameuss said:

placebo

:seagull:

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1 minute ago, The Dude said:

:seagull:

Well it's not wrong.  It happens every single update.  People will see something happen that probably happened before, and suddenly it must've been something that has changed.  In larger updates, it could well have been, as the changelist probably won't cover everything.  But had they been tinkering with anything that goes into match play or the like, I'd expect it to be noted in a three line patch-note.

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For five seasons my assistant (the same guy and part of a very successful club) would normally suggest “for the fans” or some other form of encouragement. 

I loaded my save back up following an update, and i was in the middle of a great run of form. First match my assistant told me to not say anything. It was unusual as i was half way through the sixth season and i had never seen this before. 

From this point on i lost 15 Premier League games and drew 2. I won 2 PL games in the second of the season and avoided relegation on the final day.  Pre update i was 3rd. 

SOMETHING changed. Not my tactics, players or staff. Something definitely changed. 

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2 hours ago, forameuss said:

Well it's not wrong

"placebo".

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1 hour ago, Iutbsco said:

SOMETHING changed. Not my tactics, players or staff. Something definitely changed. 

You're right actually.  Sometimes updates happen, and the weirdest things change that seem to have nothing to do with what's supposed to be on the update.  For example, the disappearing nationalities on player profiles - what's that all about?

I don't know how to code, and I don't know how to engineer computer games, but I know people can sometimes hit a wrong key, and I know that in complex applications, sometimes mistakes occur, and sometimes intentional actions have unintended consequences. 

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2 hours ago, forameuss said:

Well it's not wrong.  It happens every single update.  People will see something happen that probably happened before, and suddenly it must've been something that has changed.  In larger updates, it could well have been, as the changelist probably won't cover everything.  But had they been tinkering with anything that goes into match play or the like, I'd expect it to be noted in a three line patch-note.

Sometimes updates happen, and the weirdest things change that seem to have nothing to do with what's supposed to be on the update.  For example, the disappearing nationalities on player profiles - what's that all about?

I don't know how to code, and I don't know how to engineer computer games, but I know people can sometimes hit a wrong key, and I know that in complex applications, sometimes mistakes occur, and sometimes intentional actions have unintended consequences. 

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2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

You're right actually.  Sometimes updates happen, and the weirdest things change that seem to have nothing to do with what's supposed to be on the update.  For example, the disappearing nationalities on player profiles - what's that all about?

I have had that problem throughout FM19's life cycle so far, and I am still none the wiser as to how to fix it (if indeed it can be fixed). It sometimes goes away temporarily when I clear my cache or preferences, but it always returns.

2 hours ago, Iutbsco said:

For five seasons my assistant (the same guy and part of a very successful club) would normally suggest “for the fans” or some other form of encouragement. 

I loaded my save back up following an update, and i was in the middle of a great run of form. First match my assistant told me to not say anything. It was unusual as i was half way through the sixth season and i had never seen this before. 

From this point on i lost 15 Premier League games and drew 2. I won 2 PL games in the second of the season and avoided relegation on the final day.  Pre update i was 3rd. 

SOMETHING changed. Not my tactics, players or staff. Something definitely changed. 

Having gone through something similar in FM17 (my Millwall team went from play-off contenders to barely staying clear of relegation in half a season), it could be down to how other teams perceive your side. Maybe they underestimated your team a bit in the first half of the season, but then they became more wary when you overachieved and consequently started playing more cautiously.

If not, it could perhaps have been a case of your team getting complacent or suffering some rotten luck. Look at what's happened to Hearts so far this season.

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1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Sometimes updates happen, and the weirdest things change that seem to have nothing to do with what's supposed to be on the update.  For example, the disappearing nationalities on player profiles - what's that all about?

I don't know how to code, and I don't know how to engineer computer games, but I know people can sometimes hit a wrong key, and I know that in complex applications, sometimes mistakes occur, and sometimes intentional actions have unintended consequences. 

Granted, but things are segregated into modules for many reasons, one of which would be to limit the chances of something like that happening.  

I'm not saying it's 100% impossible, nothing is, but too many people immediately throw their hands up and blame it on an update, which doesn't really help anyone.

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Just now, forameuss said:

I'm not saying it's 100% impossible, nothing is, but too many people immediately throw their hands up and blame it on an update, which doesn't really help anyone.

Yes mate, but both Iutbsco and I have been playing FM / CM intensively since 97-98.  We're not newbies, and we know how things go.  FM19 is the buggiest game yet - and I never thought anything could be buggier than FM18.  The only reason I'm still playing 19 is because I'm blogging about it.  When that project is finished, I'll probably go back to FM17 which  - as I often assert - was the pinnacle of FM so far. 

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2 hours ago, Iutbsco said:

For five seasons my assistant (the same guy and part of a very successful club) would normally suggest “for the fans” or some other form of encouragement. 

I loaded my save back up following an update, and i was in the middle of a great run of form. First match my assistant told me to not say anything. It was unusual as i was half way through the sixth season and i had never seen this before. 

From this point on i lost 15 Premier League games and drew 2. I won 2 PL games in the second of the season and avoided relegation on the final day.  Pre update i was 3rd. 

SOMETHING changed. Not my tactics, players or staff. Something definitely changed. 

Nothing was changed in the update that affects the way your team plays. Nothing. To try and pin the drop in form on a team talk option is embarrassing. 

Your team lost a couple of games, heads went down and they kept losing. It appears from the little information you've given that you don't have the skills to reverse it. Too many people think they're great at the game because their team wins every week. Reversing an alarming slump in form is way more difficult than picking a good team and steamrollering opponents. 

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4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Yes mate, but both Iutbsco and I have been playing FM / CM intensively since 97-98.  We're not newbies, and we know how things go.  FM19 is the buggiest game yet - and I never thought anything could be buggier than FM18.  The only reason I'm still playing 19 is because I'm blogging about it.  When that project is finished, I'll probably go back to FM17 which  - as I often assert - was the pinnacle of FM so far. 

And there goes any credibility...every single edition has had bugs, and there have been editions with far, far worse bugs than anything here.  FM12's ME balance made it incredibly easy, one of the CMs had Diablo, and there was one edition you couldn't even open at launch.  And this is the buggiest game yet?  Jesus...

It also doesn't make the blindest bit of difference whether you've played one edition, or if you've owned every edition since the invention of the microchip.  Your opinion - and that's all it is clearly - matters just as much as everyone else'.

Edited by forameuss

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9 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Yes mate, but both Iutbsco and I have been playing FM / CM intensively since 97-98.  We're not newbies, and we know how things go.  FM19 is the buggiest game yet - and I never thought anything could be buggier than FM18.  The only reason I'm still playing 19 is because I'm blogging about it.  When that project is finished, I'll probably go back to FM17 which  - as I often assert - was the pinnacle of FM so far. 

As if it really matters, I've been playing FM/CM since CM3 (so about as long as you), and I am also blogging about my FM19 career. Although I also think FM17 was the best of the previous titles, I reckon FM19 will surpass it in time.

Regarding FM19 being the "buggiest game yet", forameuss rightly says that every title - and indeed 99% of all computer software - has had bugs. Also, what might be a 'game-breaking' bug to one person might be at most a minor annoyance to another. In my opinion, despite noticing a few issues with Asian newgen faces and player movement, I've found FM19 to be more stable and have had more substance at this stage of its development than any previous title.

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32 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Nothing was changed in the update that affects the way your team plays. Nothing. To try and pin the drop in form on a team talk option is embarrassing. 

Your team lost a couple of games, heads went down and they kept losing. It appears from the little information you've given that you don't have the skills to reverse it. Too many people think they're great at the game because their team wins every week. Reversing an alarming slump in form is way more difficult than picking a good team and steamrollering opponents. 

Wow. Just... wow...

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11 minutes ago, Iutbsco said:

Wow. Just... wow...

I don't see what's wrong in what I said. You even admitted yourself you never changed your tactics. Why wouldn't you try and change something when on such a poor run of form? 

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4 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I don't see what's wrong in what I said. You even admitted yourself you never changed your tactics. Why wouldn't you try and change something when on such a poor run of form? 

Part way through the run I did, and although performances increased, results did not improve that much. 

I did win the FA Cup though. 

The arrogance that was dripping through your reply was astounding. 

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3 hours ago, Iutbsco said:

SOMETHING changed. Not my tactics, players or staff. Something definitely changed. 

 

7 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I don't see what's wrong in what I said. You even admitted yourself you never changed your tactics.

 

1 minute ago, Iutbsco said:

Part way through the run I did,

The story is getting less credible by the second. 

Anyway, the main point is, nothing that was changed in the update affected anything to do with the game engine. The developers confirmed this. 

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**** it. This forum is mental. 

Edited by Guest

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I had the exact opposite happen with the update. My crap team(hadn't won a game all year) went on a 20 game unbeaten run. So explain that...

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The "core issue" here may be one of perception.

There is also another one though.

There's a significant difference between winning and roughly knowing why you do. On any release since way back then. Actually, you can win Matches in sequences despite your side playing Pretty bad (having more shots and Possession in all of those also doesn't equal to playing good). That's the magic of footie, a Sports where despite dozens attacks per match over 90 minutes, but a couple seconds eventually settle winner and loser. Both the actual Football, andn the SI take on it.

I'd argue if there were more in-Depth Analysis by more intelligent assistants in the game, this wuold be adressed some. At the same time, SI may consider it spoon feeding if they do too much….

Edited by Svenc

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33 minutes ago, Svenc said:

I'd argue if there were more in-Depth Analysis by more intelligent assistants in the game, this wuold be adressed some. 

This.

I think a lot of the problem (because I've experienced it) is not really being able to tell why you've lost a game.  Some will be luck, some will be tactics, some will be bugs, but there's an ever decreasing number of reliable things to help people understand why games turn out the way they do.

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3 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Nothing was changed in the update that affects the way your team plays. Nothing. To try and pin the drop in form on a team talk option is embarrassing. 

Your team lost a couple of games, heads went down and they kept losing. It appears from the little information you've given that you don't have the skills to reverse it. Too many people think they're great at the game because their team wins every week. Reversing an alarming slump in form is way more difficult than picking a good team and steamrollering opponents. 

Thanks for pointing out a few things everyone already knows.  You missed the point though. 

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2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I don't see what's wrong in what I said. You even admitted yourself you never changed your tactics. Why wouldn't you try and change something when on such a poor run of form? 

I never change my tactics either.  Every iteration of the game, I take a lesser club, and turn them into the top team in Europe.  Every time.  I blog about it.  Winning matches isn't only about tactics, though.  It's not only about the match engine either.  You are talking to people who have smashed this game repeatedly, and have huge experience in it, and who have spotted that something changed.  

 

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

To try and pin the drop in form on a team talk option is embarrassing

That comment is embarrassing.  And shameful. 

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2 hours ago, oulzac said:

I had the exact opposite happen with the update. My crap team(hadn't won a game all year) went on a 20 game unbeaten run. So explain that...

I explain it as BS.

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2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

  You are talking to people who have smashed this game repeatedly, and have huge experience in it, and who have spotted that something changed.  

No, I'm talking to people who aren't as good at the game as they think they are. 

Because if they were, they would have spotted what was going wrong and fixed it, as opposed to throwing the toys out the pram and blaming the game. 

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1 hour ago, Svenc said:

There's a significant difference between winning and roughly knowing why you do

Classic passive-aggressive swipe via assumption of other people's understanding of the game. 

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2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

No, I'm talking to people who aren't as good at the game as they think they are. 

Because if they were, they would have spotted what was going wrong and fixed it, as opposed to throwing the toys out the pram and blaming the game. 

Brilliant!  A: You haven't got a clue how good these people are at the game.  B: We did spot the problem, which is kind of the point. But don't let facts get in the way of your opinions. 

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1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Classic passive-aggressive swipe via assumption of other people's understanding of the game. 

Yeah, because you 'smash the game repeatedly'. 

*cringe*

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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

*cringe*

More passive-aggression.  You're on a roll. 

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5 hours ago, Iutbsco said:

From this point on i lost 15 Premier League games and drew 2. I won 2 PL games in the second of the season and avoided relegation on the final day.  Pre update i was 3rd. 

 

 

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

  B: We did spot the problem, which is kind of the point. 

Oh dear, this really isn't going well for you, is it? 

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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

 

Oh dear, this really isn't going well for you, is it? 

Why would you think that?  I think it's going pretty well - we're all sitting around having a good laugh about your comments. 

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Dagenham Dave (?) has been proper triggered.  

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1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Why would you think that?  I think it's going pretty well - we're all sitting around having a good laugh about your comments. 

Never mind, Santa will be here soon. Maybe you'll get a new downloaded tactic in your stocking this year! 

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