Help my tactic with aston villa

[gelegelo2]

my aston villa team can play both possession and direct style same for the pressing style they capable of both , so i choose mostly balance with team instruction

what i'm asking is, how can i improve goal from striker or goal as a team?
i play mostly 1-1 or 1-0 or even lose with bottom of the table team

[slipperyjohns]

On first glance I think Tammy Abraham is maybe a bit wasted as a Target Man on support! He is very fast and should be making darting runs in behind. Perhaps an Advanced Forward on Attack and drop Bolasie to Support duty?

[gelegelo2]

Just now, slipperyjohns said:

On first glance I think Tammy Abraham is maybe a bit wasted as a Target Man on support! He is very fast and should be making darting runs in behind. Perhaps an Advanced Forward on Attack and drop Bolasie to Support duty?

i have tried that in multiple occasion, but tammy always got low rating when i play him as advance forward but when i play him as targetman he got standard rating.

i like bolasie, he's lightning fast that's why i play him on attack duty

maybe a role change in midfield can make an advance forward more alive?

[slipperyjohns]

2 minutes ago, gelegelo2 said:

i have tried that in multiple occasion, but tammy always got low rating when i play him as advance forward but when i play him as targetman he got standard rating.

i like bolasie, he's lightning fast that's why i play him on attack duty

maybe a role change in midfield can make an advance forward more alive?

Hmm I'm not sure then, I actually like your roles in midfield. I think there's good balance.

Perhaps change your style to Vertical Tiki-Taka or Direct Counter Attack, similar to what you have now..
 

Watch a few games then see how you could improve it?

[pheelf]

It appears that a lot of people are struggling with getting this formation to work. Maybe it's down to the tactic in FM not being comparable to how it actually operates in real life so when people are bringing real-life concepts and trying to apply them in the tactical creator they are getting problems.

Part of the confusion stems from this formation only being like this in the defensive phase but becomes very different once your team has the ball. Sometimes it helps if you draw an attacking formation for the different thirds of the pitch and where your players are likely to be positioned. I think the problem you are experiencing with a lack of goals stems from a number of issues:

1) Using a Sweeper Keeper without adopting a high line who will occasionally play direct when counter-attacks are on which is not ideal when you expect him to pass the ball to your central defenders.

2) Using 2 Ball Playing Defenders who will also play more direct even though you have the Play Out Of Defence TI on. The reason why this is so important is that one of the key cogs in the system is the number 6 (DM) who should be the one orchestrating things from deep and be the defensive pivot that links your defence to the midfield. If you are struggling to get the ball to him because he is being bypassed by the central defenders who want to play direct, creative passes then you are going to struggle to dominate the central midfield which is not good given that one of the main strengths of playing this formation is to do that. 

3) Your central midfield isn't balanced from my perspective. You need a creator, a holding player and a runner. As it stands, you have one holding player and two off the ball runners. As well as a defensive pivot you also need an attacking one which links your central midfield to your attack. Your wide players (AML/R) can't provide this consistently and it's not really their job. Playing with two support duties in the central midfield is really conservative and I think unnecessary given you have the insurance of the DM who is going to sit behind them at all times. If I were setting up this tactic I'd have a defend duty, a support duty and an attack duty in the defensive triangle.

4) The tactic is congesting the central areas quite badly. This is not good because by doing this you are not disrupting the defensive shape of the opponent (horizontally). You need to make life uncomfortable for the opposition defenders by pulling them about as much as possible. You might counter by saying that you have wingbacks but the width they provide will arrive late and often after the attack has concluded especially as you are fielding a Target Man. You should look to set up a chain reaction which creates space for your other players.

For e.g. say you change your AMR to a winger (support) and your MCR to a central midfielder (attack). When your winger gets the ball the opponents LB is left with a dilemma. He has to confront the winger as that is his job but because the winger is going to run wide with the ball in order to challenge him he also has to run wide. Assuming they are playing a back 4 then this forces their DCL to make a decision. Does he stay in position and leave the newly created channel completely open which the MCR will attack or does he move across to try and shrink the space. Whatever choice he makes is a losing one. If he stays in position then the MCR is given space in a very dangerous area of the pitch. If he moves, that frees up space for the ST in an equally dangerous area. You need to look to create a tactic which forces these sort of situations as much as possible and if you can you'll find that the quality of chances you create will improve.

5) A target man (support) isn't a good choice as a lone striker. In my opinion, target men need players in close proximity to them to get the best out of them. They work best in 10/9 partnerships with a mobile #9 around them to feed off their flick-ons and to compensate for their lack of mobility. If you want to keep the False 10 (Inside Forward, Attack) then I'd use a False 9 as the lone striker. I also can't see how a Target Man who is a ball magnet is supposed to work with an Advanced Playmaker, your AP can't be seeing enough of the ball in this setup.

6) Some of your TIs don't make sense. How are you going to prevent the GK from distributing short with only 1 striker? Why are you playing the offside trap without a high line? 

If you think about tactics more as a whole then I think you will make improvements.

Best Regards

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, slipperyjohns said:

On first glance I think Tammy Abraham is maybe a bit wasted as a Target Man on support! He is very fast and should be making darting runs in behind. Perhaps an Advanced Forward on Attack

 

4 hours ago, gelegelo2 said:

i have tried that in multiple occasion, but tammy always got low rating when i play him as advance forward

Most people that use the lone striker as an AF face this sort of issues, simply because he gets too much isolated, which is quite logical, given that AF is the most attack-minded/forward-positioned of all striker roles. So if you want the lone striker on attack duty, I would suggest either a DLFatt or (perhaps even better) a PFatt. AF in a lone-striker system may sometimes work, but more likely with a counter-attacking tactic that defends with a low block and looks for direct and quick counter-attacks, but even than the player needs to be really good and able to do a lot of job on his own (keep the ball until support arrives or even finish the whole action himself). 

Also, if playing with the lone striker on attack duty (not necessarily AF) in this 4141dm wide system, it's advisable that one of your CMs also be on attack. Which one it would be depends on the type of players you have, but I personally prefer APM on attack. Of course, that usually requires a couple of tweaks with other roles and/or duties.

[gelegelo2]

4 hours ago, pheelf said:

It appears that a lot of people are struggling with getting this formation to work. Maybe it's down to the tactic in FM not being comparable to how it actually operates in real life so when people are bringing real-life concepts and trying to apply them in the tactical creator they are getting problems.

Part of the confusion stems from this formation only being like this in the defensive phase but becomes very different once your team has the ball. Sometimes it helps if you draw an attacking formation for the different thirds of the pitch and where your players are likely to be positioned. I think the problem you are experiencing with a lack of goals stems from a number of issues:

1) Using a Sweeper Keeper without adopting a high line who will occasionally play direct when counter-attacks are on which is not ideal when you expect him to pass the ball to your central defenders.

2) Using 2 Ball Playing Defenders who will also play more direct even though you have the Play Out Of Defence TI on. The reason why this is so important is that one of the key cogs in the system is the number 6 (DM) who should be the one orchestrating things from deep and be the defensive pivot that links your defence to the midfield. If you are struggling to get the ball to him because he is being bypassed by the central defenders who want to play direct, creative passes then you are going to struggle to dominate the central midfield which is not good given that one of the main strengths of playing this formation is to do that. 

3) Your central midfield isn't balanced from my perspective. You need a creator, a holding player and a runner. As it stands, you have one holding player and two off the ball runners. As well as a defensive pivot you also need an attacking one which links your central midfield to your attack. Your wide players (AML/R) can't provide this consistently and it's not really their job. Playing with two support duties in the central midfield is really conservative and I think unnecessary given you have the insurance of the DM who is going to sit behind them at all times. If I were setting up this tactic I'd have a defend duty, a support duty and an attack duty in the defensive triangle.

4) The tactic is congesting the central areas quite badly. This is not good because by doing this you are not disrupting the defensive shape of the opponent (horizontally). You need to make life uncomfortable for the opposition defenders by pulling them about as much as possible. You might counter by saying that you have wingbacks but the width they provide will arrive late and often after the attack has concluded especially as you are fielding a Target Man. You should look to set up a chain reaction which creates space for your other players.

For e.g. say you change your AMR to a winger (support) and your MCR to a central midfielder (attack). When your winger gets the ball the opponents LB is left with a dilemma. He has to confront the winger as that is his job but because the winger is going to run wide with the ball in order to challenge him he also has to run wide. Assuming they are playing a back 4 then this forces their DCL to make a decision. Does he stay in position and leave the newly created channel completely open which the MCR will attack or does he move across to try and shrink the space. Whatever choice he makes is a losing one. If he stays in position then the MCR is given space in a very dangerous area of the pitch. If he moves, that frees up space for the ST in an equally dangerous area. You need to look to create a tactic which forces these sort of situations as much as possible and if you can you'll find that the quality of chances you create will improve.

5) A target man (support) isn't a good choice as a lone striker. In my opinion, target men need players in close proximity to them to get the best out of them. They work best in 10/9 partnerships with a mobile #9 around them to feed off their flick-ons and to compensate for their lack of mobility. If you want to keep the False 10 (Inside Forward, Attack) then I'd use a False 9 as the lone striker. I also can't see how a Target Man who is a ball magnet is supposed to work with an Advanced Playmaker, your AP can't be seeing enough of the ball in this setup.

6) Some of your TIs don't make sense. How are you going to prevent the GK from distributing short with only 1 striker? Why are you playing the offside trap without a high line? 

If you think about tactics more as a whole then I think you will make improvements.

Best Regards

wow thank you for the insight, that's more knowledge than i understand this ME

1) for the SK i want him to sweep the line when defender got caught and it's pair with rushing out attribute

2) my 2 defender has bring ball out of defence trait, so what i thought was they will dribble with the ball a lot into midfield and it's actually work, bypassing pressing from opp striker, play out of the defense is intentional, i want opp striker to press us from goalkick and GK will find space at front, that why i got 2 BPD to dribble  through them and pass it to open teammates

3) that's better config for midfield i suppose, apart from halfback, 2 other midfield need to be tweak because i need halfback to split the DC for build up purpose

4) good advice too

5) every role i tried on striker nothing works except for targetman on supp, either they got isolated or shooting off target, guess i'll try your advice

6) what i understand is preventing GK to short pass to DC, as for offside trap defender always in the same line no matter what, my idea behind the TI was to play counter but i dont know why we have all the possession instead

 

[gelegelo2]

36 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

Most people that use the lone striker as an AF face this sort of issues, simply because he gets too much isolated, which is quite logical, given that AF is the most attack-minded/forward-positioned of all striker roles. So if you want the lone striker on attack duty, I would suggest either a DLFatt or (perhaps even better) a PFatt. AF in a lone-striker system may sometimes work, but more likely with a counter-attacking tactic that defends with a low block and looks for direct and quick counter-attacks, but even than the player needs to be really good and able to do a lot of job on his own (keep the ball until support arrives or even finish the whole action himself). 

Also, if playing with the lone striker on attack duty (not necessarily AF) in this 4141dm wide system, it's advisable that one of your CMs also be on attack. Which one it would be depends on the type of players you have, but I personally prefer APM on attack. Of course, that usually requires a couple of tweaks with other roles and/or duties.

thanks, i'll try your advice 

[mseel82]

As a Small Heath Alliance fan, i'd recommend that you take your keeper and put him up front in an unprecedented 4-1-2-2