Transfer mechanics frustration

[cseyoum]

the transfer activity does not in fact represent reality, I have Mbappe which i bought for 210 million winning ballon d'ors. Real madrid have made him their primary target, i dont think they offered more than 120 million, its completely unrealistic. I remember in 2017 there would be some large offers at least, i remember getting offers for 170 million. Sad that the game has decreased in realism. 

[raizen]

1 minute ago, cseyoum said:

the transfer activity does not in fact represent reality, I have Mbappe which i bought for 210 million winning ballon d'ors. Real madrid have made him their primary target, i dont think they offered more than 120 million, its completely unrealistic. I remember in 2017 there would be some large offers at least, i remember getting offers for 170 million. Sad that the game has decreased in realism. 

i do see some big transfers. dybala to ManUtd for £144m is the biggest one i've seen, and some 100-120m for average players (moise kean, rodrygo, jesse lingard). but i've never seen any big offer for MY players, unless i do the loan trick then i get ridiculous amount for back up players

[raizen]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

Please report issues you find, ideally with a save game that reproduces the issue. That's the best way to get it looked into and fixed.

sure.  http://www.mediafire.com/file/b1v57b2dkyu4wwk/exploit+upload.fm

recall rulli and leno from their loans. then offer to club and set mandatory fee £140mil, dortmund will offer to buy both of them. some people will argue it's not a bug, just unrealistic, but you can go look at my transfer history and see a lot of players sold for ridiculous amounts and dozens of players on loan for £300k/month each season

[HUNT3R]

Just now, raizen said:

sure.  http://www.mediafire.com/file/b1v57b2dkyu4wwk/exploit+upload.fm

recall rulli and leno from their loans. then offer to club and set mandatory fee £140mil, dortmund will offer to buy both of them. some people will argue it's not a bug, just unrealistic, but you can go look at my transfer history and see a lot of players sold for ridiculous amounts and dozens of players on loan for £300k/month each season

Please report bugs or issues in the bugs forum. When you do, be clear on what exactly the reported issue is and how to reproduce it so that SI can look into it.

Here for transfers/contracts: https://community.sigames.com/forum/662-transfers-contracts-and-scouting/

[LukasZ_VCF]

1 hour ago, raizen said:

sure.  http://www.mediafire.com/file/b1v57b2dkyu4wwk/exploit+upload.fm

recall rulli and leno from their loans. then offer to club and set mandatory fee £140mil, dortmund will offer to buy both of them. some people will argue it's not a bug, just unrealistic, but you can go look at my transfer history and see a lot of players sold for ridiculous amounts and dozens of players on loan for £300k/month each season

But you can do it with only Dortmund or any club ? How come they don't bankrupt ?

[The Dude]

I'm not shy about complaining about daft things in FM - I even have a special section on my blog devoted to it.  But I don't have many problems with the transfers negotiating system, and I've caned every version of the game since the 97-98 iteration.

Just picking out a couple of the general themes from comments made on this thread so far - I'm not sure if these observations will apply to you, but they might:

• If you pay over the odds for a player, don't just expect other clubs to accept he is now worth that much.  They will offer what they want to offer (regardless of the "value'' figure on his profile).  They might start off with unrealistically low bids initially - that's how it works - but even when they offer what they feel is a realistic bid, it might be well below what you paid.  This is a really common error players make.
• Paid loans do accurately reflect real life football - some players are loaned out for huge amounts of money: Mbappe, Rodriguez, Robinho spring to mind.  Even lesser players can be the subject of comparatively expensive loan deals due to supply and demand.   

As another contributor suggested, you can exploit the transfer market just as easily as the AI. 

As you progress in a game, your transfer activity will affect the rate of inflation in your game.  And remember, if you are at a major club, spending lots of money, you will have a more profound effect on your game's rate of inflation.  This too reflects real life.  we've seen it happen as a result of splurges from Chelsea, Man City and PSG. 

Also, as in real life, if you sell a player for, as an example, £40 million, and you go to buy your replacement who is valued at £25 million, you might find the selling club suddenly want oh, roughly £40 million for him.  Sneaky, annoying, and totally realistic.      

[raizen]

33 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I'm not shy about complaining about daft things in FM - I even have a special section on my blog devoted to it.  But I don't have many problems with the transfers negotiating system, and I've caned every version of the game since the 97-98 iteration.

Just picking out a couple of the general themes from comments made on this thread so far - I'm not sure if these observations will apply to you, but they might:

• If you pay over the odds for a player, don't just expect other clubs to accept he is now worth that much.  They will offer what they want to offer (regardless of the "value'' figure on his profile).  They might start off with unrealistically low bids initially - that's how it works - but even when they offer what they feel is a realistic bid, it might be well below what you paid.  This is a really common error players make.
• Paid loans do accurately reflect real life football - some players are loaned out for huge amounts of money: Mbappe, Rodriguez, Robinho spring to mind.  Even lesser players can be the subject of comparatively expensive loan deals due to supply and demand.   

As another contributor suggested, you can exploit the transfer market just as easily as the AI. 

As you progress in a game, your transfer activity will affect the rate of inflation in your game.  And remember, if you are at a major club, spending lots of money, you will have a more profound effect on your game's rate of inflation.  This too reflects real life.  we've seen it happen as a result of splurges from Chelsea, Man City and PSG. 

Also, as in real life, if you sell a player for, as an example, £40 million, and you go to buy your replacement who is valued at £25 million, you might find the selling club suddenly want oh, roughly £40 million for him.  Sneaky, annoying, and totally realistic.      

no matter what happens in the game someone will twist and turn it trying to make it seem "realistic".

many people post pics of man city and PSG etc go out and spend 80 millions to get a random play then sell them off after 1 season for 1/10 the price and never letting them play a single match. "oh it happens"

explain to me how the MOST you can get for loaning out messi is the same as loaning out shane long, £300k/month

also your point about "They will offer what they want to offer (regardless of the "value'' figure on his profile)", using this logic you can justify any and all crazy actions the AI does. say, in my save liverpool wanted to buy insigne from napoli for ridiculous amount, so i offered them jadon sancho, a young english player who plays the same position as insigne, but better, who also happened to be unhappy so his wage should be affordable. couldn't make them go over 35m (the player's value is 60m), then they proceeded to pay 80m for insigne.

i'm sure you can come up with some weird explanation to justify this behavior too

oh and also even tho they wouldn't go over 35m for jadon sancho, if i negotiate it into a short term loan with mandatory fee, then they're ok with paying 70m for him after a half season loan

[The Dude]

32 minutes ago, raizen said:

many people post pics of man city and PSG etc go out and spend 80 millions to get a random play then sell them off after 1 season for 1/10 the price and never letting them play a single match. "oh it happens"

 

I'm not sure what you mean with this, but if you mean sometimes expensive players flop and move on for little or nothing - it DOES happen.  google it. 

 

32 minutes ago, raizen said:

 explain to me how the MOST you can get for loaning out messi is the same as loaning out shane long, £300k/month

 

I don't own Messi on my game, but I don't see why the loaning fee should only be £300k per month.  On my game, if I wanted to loan out Reiss Nelson, if I wanted, I could (try to) charge nearly £9 million per month (see screenshot).  Have you checked you PA settings for loan values?

 

32 minutes ago, raizen said:

then they proceeded to pay 80m for insigne.

Maybe that was to do with their AI recruitment policy.  The game won't (and shouldn't) do what you want it to just because you want it to. 

 

32 minutes ago, raizen said:

oh and also even tho they wouldn't go over 35m for jadon sancho, if i negotiate it into a short term loan with mandatory fee, then they're ok with paying 70m for him after a half season loan

Interesting, but it could just be to do with cash flow. Difficult to say without me seeing the game live.   

[LukasZ_VCF]

When I started game I wanted to loan some bench players like Vezo, Piccini, etc and I coudn't even get them to agree to 100% wage paid so I just can't belive how they will agree to 100% and fee...

 

Even now after almost 2 seasons they offer me some % like 10-40% and without fee ;O

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

When I started game I wanted to loan some bench players like Vezo, Piccini, etc and I coudn't even get them to agree to 100% wage paid so I just can't belive how they will agree to 100% and fee...

 

When I loan players out I almost always demand a fee of 25% value, and 100% wages.  I'll let the fee go if it's a youngster who hasn't really played competitively before.  Example screenshots to prove.

[raizen]

7 hours ago, The Dude said:

I'm not sure what you mean with this, but if you mean sometimes expensive players flop and move on for little or nothing - it DOES happen.  google it. 

 

I don't own Messi on my game, but I don't see why the loaning fee should only be £300k per month.  On my game, if I wanted to loan out Reiss Nelson, if I wanted, I could (try to) charge nearly £9 million per month (see screenshot).  Have you checked you PA settings for loan values?

 

Maybe that was to do with their AI recruitment policy.  The game won't (and shouldn't) do what you want it to just because you want it to. 

 

Interesting, but it could just be to do with cash flow. Difficult to say without me seeing the game live.   

seems like you haven't messed around with the game enough to know how it works. if you have tried to min/max your income by loaning out players then you would notice the most any team would pay for ANY player is £300k/month, but the thing is the AI is very willing to pay that same amount to a low tier player who transfer value is even lower than the loan fee. so you can get 300k/month for any unneeded player but that's also the capped amount, so you can't ask for more loan fee no matter how good the player is

for the last point, you're amusing me with how hard you're trying to defend the game's realism. everyone knows the game behaves based on the outlines that it was programmed in, if A happens, do X, if B happens, do Y. bugs will always exist, the game will never be perfect, but we're discussing the bugs here to keep trying to improve the game. but there's always guys like you who believe the game can do no wrong and everything in it makes sense if you look hard enough

here's an example: the AI club won't agree to pay 40m for a player in multiple installments over 2 year, but they will pay 140m straight up if you negotiate it through a loan.

go ahead, i'm actually curious to see what ******** reasoning you're coming up with to justify these transfers that i managed to get

[HUNT3R]

@raizen stop with the hostility. If you have issues to report, please do so in the bugs forum.

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, raizen said:

here's an example: the AI club won't agree to pay 40m for a player in multiple installments over 2 year, but they will pay 140m straight up if you negotiate it through a loan.

That is a really interesting example, actually, and I'm stuck for an answer to it.  Have you got any screenshots of that particular negotiation, for the rejected sale and the accepted loan?  I'd love to cast my eye over it to see if I could make sense of it.  It's not something I've come across myself, so I'm genuinely interested.   

[The Dude]

1 hour ago, raizen said:

40m for a player in multiple installments over 2 year, but they will pay 140m straight up if you negotiate it through a loan

Something just occurred to me, and it might be way off, and I've not gone into detail with it, but...   

What would the buying / loaning club have paid out in total for each of those deals (the loan vs the full transfer) if you include player wages over the full term of the transfer (IE the length of the contract the player would have had in a full transfer), and if you included the signing on fee and clauses in a full transfer, not to mention agent's fee in a full transfer?  Would that have potentially taken the full financial package way over the £140 million spent on the loan + wages for the loan period?  

If so, you could of course still argue it wouldn't make much financial sense... unless the buying / loaning club were expecting that having the player would have a dramatic impact on how much league / champions league prize money would be earned. 

I'd like to think that the AI algorithm would not only include calculating the full package cost, but would also factor in how likely a given club / chairman is to gamble.

Like I said, I haven't thought it through too much, but it could have something to do with the overall cost of the package through the full term.   

[raizen]

6 hours ago, The Dude said:

Something just occurred to me, and it might be way off, and I've not gone into detail with it, but...   

What would the buying / loaning club have paid out in total for each of those deals (the loan vs the full transfer) if you include player wages over the full term of the transfer (IE the length of the contract the player would have had in a full transfer), and if you included the signing on fee and clauses in a full transfer, not to mention agent's fee in a full transfer?  Would that have potentially taken the full financial package way over the £140 million spent on the loan + wages for the loan period?  

If so, you could of course still argue it wouldn't make much financial sense... unless the buying / loaning club were expecting that having the player would have a dramatic impact on how much league / champions league prize money would be earned. 

I'd like to think that the AI algorithm would not only include calculating the full package cost, but would also factor in how likely a given club / chairman is to gamble.

Like I said, I haven't thought it through too much, but it could have something to do with the overall cost of the package through the full term.   

you're roleplaying too much. the AI clubs have programming rules and guidelines that it follows in the transfer market, and you can exploit those to make unrealistic profit, much like RPG bosses have their own attack patterns, and once you learn those patterns you can defeat the boss easily. they don't have an actual brain that plans things through in a realistic and logical way

and you didn't read my post properly, i've said again and again the MAXIMUM MONTHLY FEE you can get from a loan is £300k A MONTH, no matter how good the player is. but you can put in a clause called "MANDATORY FEE" which means the buying club is REQUIRED TO BUY the player at the end of the loan period, and this mandatory fee is BUGGED, you can set it way higher than what a club would normally pay for your players. check my previous post i included a save file in which you can loan out 2 goalkeepers with clauses to force the other club to pay you £140m at the end of the loan period

 

i don't know why i even have to explain this over and over

[The Dude]

11 hours ago, raizen said:

you're roleplaying too much

No, I was thinking about the maths.

 

11 hours ago, raizen said:

but you can put in a clause called "MANDATORY FEE" which means the buying club is REQUIRED TO BUY the player at the end of the loan period, and this mandatory fee is BUGGED

Yeah, you didn't really make that clear before, but now I get you.  And it does appear to be a problem on the face of it.  I'm going to do some playing around with it on my game. 

[Gee_Simpson]

On 19/12/2018 at 18:28, raizen said:

seems like you haven't messed around with the game enough to know how it works. if you have tried to min/max your income by loaning out players then you would notice the most any team would pay for ANY player is £300k/month, but the thing is the AI is very willing to pay that same amount to a low tier player who transfer value is even lower than the loan fee. so you can get 300k/month for any unneeded player but that's also the capped amount, so you can't ask for more loan fee no matter how good the player is

for the last point, you're amusing me with how hard you're trying to defend the game's realism. everyone knows the game behaves based on the outlines that it was programmed in, if A happens, do X, if B happens, do Y. bugs will always exist, the game will never be perfect, but we're discussing the bugs here to keep trying to improve the game. but there's always guys like you who believe the game can do no wrong and everything in it makes sense if you look hard enough

here's an example: the AI club won't agree to pay 40m for a player in multiple installments over 2 year, but they will pay 140m straight up if you negotiate it through a loan.

go ahead, i'm actually curious to see what ******** reasoning you're coming up with to justify these transfers that i managed to get

Yeah man that's clearly a bug. Get it posted