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sulljda

What is everyone elses opinion?

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This comment was posted by Neil Brock;

Finding the issues is a relatively easy process. The difficulty comes with being able to change the match engine code in such a way that it reflects football in a more realistic way, whilst still outputting matches which have accurate scorelines and match stats compared to real life. All within what is a very is an extremely detailed and incredibly complex system. If it was easy to fix every issue raised, the match engine would have been in perfect state for FM05, not still being improved for every version like it is now

it is a long never-ending road to perfection. What we have now is the closest simulated representation of real life football - but still one that absolutely can be improved in the future

It was posted it the topic - 

 

 

Now. I am interested to see what people think about this comment because i think the detail of it is part of the issue for me now and my appreciation of the game.

I have always viewed FM as a game, something for enjoyment. Over the last few releases i, sadly to say have started to have less and less fun. And maybe the above explains it.

Football manager is not a game anymore.

I am not playing football manager to try and create match states comparable to real life, what is the point in that? To me that is boring. I play games to do something different, have fun and do something that you cant normally do.

I dont want to create real life stats. I want to create a tactic and build a team that defies normality. 

I dont think Pep or Ferguson ever created tactics or bought players to play football to create accurate scorelines or mimic general real life statistics. Their intention was never simulate real life football. They created football, a winning culture no one had seen before. Their tactics did not conform and they set trends and blazed trails for other managers to follow.

Why am i playing a so called game where the actual details now appear to me to be pre-determined due to the match engine attempting to replicate real life stats. Im not saying the scoreline is already determined and its "fixed" but how does the match engine replicating real life stats affect my game?

Is this why i see players make constant aimless 1 -2s to each other to impact on passing stats and numbers? Is this why i see players regularly squander 1vs1 chances to maintain accurate to life shot conversion rates? Is it why there have been constant issues with central play this release so that real life stats are met at the detriment of what we are actually trying to create with our tactics?

Maybe i have got this wrong but i am interested to see others points of view. I dont want a simulation engine that is trying to mimic real life stats, i want a game that we can create something never seen before on, be a new Pep

 

 

 

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for me its about 70% SIMULATION 30%FUN/DEFYING ODDS.

I'm not a fan of people getting back to back promotions to the premier league and winning the champions league with Doncaster within 5 seasons

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3 minutes ago, lex311085 said:

for me its about 70% SIMULATION 30%FUN/DEFYING ODDS.

I'm not a fan of people getting back to back promotions to the premier league and winning the champions league with Doncaster within 5 seasons

pretty much where im at.

In your example above, if people were honest with themselves they'll have cheated the game to some degree (and thats OK!) if thats what it takes to enjoy it, its only a game. Whether it be a flat out editor or just replaying the odd match.

Reality is back to back promotions and huge success rarely comes in that time frame.

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1 hour ago, sulljda said:

I am not playing football manager to try and create match states comparable to real life, what is the point in that? To me that is boring. I play games to do something different, have fun and do something that you cant normally do.

I dont want to create real life stats. I want to create a tactic and build a team that defies normality. 

I think you have the wrong end of the stick here. Neil was explaining that when we make changes to the match engine code we have to keep an eye on the impact that change has on the match stats. For example, a change to the code could potentially see every team scoring/conceding an extra 20 goals per season. We need to ensure the changes we make to the code are still producing sane results.

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OP, it just sounds like you've reached a point where you're way over-analyzing everything. Every year I don't consider buying FM in the month or two after release because it has issues every year. Just download the game every Dec/Jan and play to enjoy. I'm not worried about what it's trying to be or any of that stuff you mention. It's a fun game that is close enough to real life to make it immersive. If it's not, just go play something else.

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I do appreciate being constrained somewhat to within reality, in part because that's the measuring stick for "how well are we doing."

If the game lets me dominate it by attempting some off the wall tactic that, in real life, could be easily countered by a human manager, I don't consider that to be particularly interesting. So exceptions and new shifts are always a bit slow on the uptick in a video game. As another example, the NBA 2k staff typically doesn't let people consistently make 3 point shots 10+ feet beyond the 3 point line, even if they are ace 3 point shooters. But Steph Curry came along and they made a special patch to allow him to do so because hey, they were trying to simulate reality somewhat and that is what Steph was able to consistently do a few years ago.

Also @Simon Tipple's explanation details that there's a load of knock on effects that can be wholly unanticipated is more what Niel is talking about. It is something I can corroborate (I work in game dev too, but not SI, and sometimes the way things can impact other systems is very surprising).

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