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Ciderarmy

Losing its realism

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Morning sorry to moan but I feel in love with fm around the 05 series and I was hooked almost obsessed as I had to pack in playing due to a serious injury and this was the next best thing 

At the moment and I hate to say it but I feel the game is starting to be unrealistic 

I posted about my sacking with Bristol City so I won't bang on about that but it's happening again with my new team 

After being sacked with Bristol City I moved on to Leeds united and I took over with ten games to go and the situation was pretty desperate bottom of the table and looking doomed 

I somehow managed to survive the drop on the last game of the season and in my next 2 seasons managed to finish 11th and 6th and qualified for Europe 

Onto this season and we are sitting 12th with ten games to go about 16 points away from the bottom 3 and about 8 points away from the top ten 

Were in europa 2nd round and reached the league quarterfinals losing on pens to Arsenal and the only disappointment was losing in the fa cup third round to Brentford 

The board wanted me to finish top half and we are predicted to finish 11th

We are 1 million pounds under our wage budget and we have 44 million pounds in the bank but after consistent improvements I am faced with the sacked if I don't win my next game 

Now I know fm isn't real life but in all previous editions it has always been semi realistic but honestly in the real world would any manager be facing the sack after all these improvements and don't forget this is Leeds and not one of the big boys and for me it's runining the game when you put hours into the game 

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This does sound like an unrealistic assessment with the board. Having said that it could also be unique to your save. For instance, I seem to have a pretty relaxed board with Torino where i do a lot of my sim testing. Here i set a tactic and holiday mode each season, and so far it's been fun we have managed to get into europe and the ecc each time. While their expectations have gone up, whenever we underperform I don't normally get the sack rightaway, instead when i check the board reactions, i usually surmise that if my assman doesn't turn things around i could get the sack. Then I sack the assman and take over till I get another in.

So while it seems that my personal DOF challenge seems to be going quite well with a realistic board, yours on the other hand seems a bit out of whack. Here I would raise this in the bugs forum and tag the post as Unrealistic board expectations. These kinda saves do pop up once in a while

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Leicester sacked Ranieri the season after winning the league with Leicester. Di Matteo was sacked after winning Chelsea's first ever European Cup. Capello sacked by Real Madrid (twice) after winning the league. What about van Gaal's stint at Bayern? Won the league and cup and got to the Champions League final. Sacked the next season. Football is littered with managers who've been fired following unsympathetic chairmen, unable to grasp the success that the departing manager has brought them in recent history.

All that to say, I disagree with Rashidi, your experience sounds realistic to me.

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Hi GillsMan sorry I have to disagree with you 

Yes Ranieri won the title but his Leicester side the next we're heading for the drop as teams had worked them out 

With Di Matteo he was never the boards first choice and they made it clear that they wanted a big name so he was always going to be sacked no matter what he did as his face didn't fit 

As for Madrid and Bayern when was the last time they were consistent with their managers 

You honestly believe that a team of Leeds reputation in real life would sack a manager who has managed to get to 11th and 6th and qualified for Europe 

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About Real Madrid, there was a time where if you was Real Madrid, you must not only win, but win playing attacking football. That's the main reason Capello was sacked.

At the first Capello years, Ronaldo's Barca was so much more enjoyable. 

Same for Brazil 1994 WC winner: you cannot play like european if you were Brazil.

 

(It would be beautiful if the club's philosopy have bigger importance - and if there would be a similar thing in National teams)

Edited by FlorianAlbert9

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1 hour ago, NabsKebabs said:

not sure why this is in the tactics forum

Me also ;).

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3 hours ago, Ciderarmy said:

Hi GillsMan sorry I have to disagree with you 

Yes Ranieri won the title but his Leicester side the next we're heading for the drop as teams had worked them out 

With Di Matteo he was never the boards first choice and they made it clear that they wanted a big name so he was always going to be sacked no matter what he did as his face didn't fit 

As for Madrid and Bayern when was the last time they were consistent with their managers 

You honestly believe that a team of Leeds reputation in real life would sack a manager who has managed to get to 11th and 6th and qualified for Europe 

If they had made it perfectly clear to the manager that they expected a top half finish and the manager was looking likely to fall comfortably short of that then yes, I can completely imagine them sacking their manager over that.

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Wow mack4ever I wouldn't want to be your manager 

If I was a Leeds fan I would be over the moon if we finished 11th and 6th in the premier league surely you would agree 

Take my beloved Bristol City in real life last season we had a record run of defeats dropped from 2nd at Xmas to 12th 

This season the board wants us to finish 10th or higher and there's no way we are going to achieve that we're playing the worst football in a decade the manager has spent almost 40 million pounds and our average gates have dropped by almost 4,000 and still the manager hasn't been sacked you still think this years fm is still realistic 

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8 hours ago, Ciderarmy said:

Hi GillsMan sorry I have to disagree with you 

Yes Ranieri won the title but his Leicester side the next we're heading for the drop as teams had worked them out 

With Di Matteo he was never the boards first choice and they made it clear that they wanted a big name so he was always going to be sacked no matter what he did as his face didn't fit 

As for Madrid and Bayern when was the last time they were consistent with their managers 

You honestly believe that a team of Leeds reputation in real life would sack a manager who has managed to get to 11th and 6th and qualified for Europe 

Would be interested to see know much you have increased Leeds' reputation by.

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18 hours ago, GillsMan said:

Leicester sacked Ranieri the season after winning the league with Leicester. Di Matteo was sacked after winning Chelsea's first ever European Cup. Capello sacked by Real Madrid (twice) after winning the league. What about van Gaal's stint at Bayern? Won the league and cup and got to the Champions League final. Sacked the next season. Football is littered with managers who've been fired following unsympathetic chairmen, unable to grasp the success that the departing manager has brought them in recent history.

You're also forgetting that unlike in-game, boards on occasion tend to sack the Manager "Just cause" or to "bring a new face in", not at all always when they perceive the club to be stagnating, but not meeting unrealistic short-term demands. Honestly, you can tell any board who doesn't have a clue about sports if they overvalue short-term targets to hit such as "mid-table positions," etc. As during any one season, the role of purely chance is friggin huge. Good boards think about the long-term. No idea where that idea ever came from that perceived "luck" and "bad luck" would even out over merely 30-40 matches. In particular in such an Ultra low scoring sports as football, but there ya go. :D 

In other words, the more "realistic" the game, the less "fun" it may be -- whether that be board dealings, sackings, shot to goal ratios, the dreaded injuries (already nerfed to 80%) or anything. :D FM tends to be the only game historically that even tries to Bridge that gap. For some players better, for some worse. THe above individual Leeds case would need investigating for possibly issues still.

 

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I am having mixed feelings about this. It has to do with my own experience from my first season in FM19.

 

I managed Panathinaikos in Greece, a team plunged in 44 mil debt, only 2 mil in the bank, a year-long embargo of signing anyone over 23 years old and -6 points for financial mismanagement. Their expectations were that we finish on top half of the table. Logical till here.

16th of September, a tycoon from Egypt puts 94 mil in the team and gets us to 0 debt and 50 mil in the bank. Superb. However, his expectations suddenly changed. He now wanted us to qualify for the Champions League!! Meaning I would have to win the league or finish second and go to the play-offs!!! And I ask: How on earth could I do that, since a) I can't sign anyone over 23 years old and b) Even if I could sign players, he bought the team on the 16th of September!! After the free transfer window closed!!!

I understand that some things can be frustrating because they seem illogical. I don't know who is right or wrong in these situations, but I do know that FM lacks the option to explain things to the board and try to get them to see things your way, which is what would happen in real life.

Edited by Lamias

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Hi lamias totally agree with you it would be great to have more interaction with the board as so many things can happened in a season like your star player getting injured etc

Its just frustrating when you spend a lot of your free time sorting pre season out so you have a chance of progressing only to be 25 games into the season that Leeds should in the top ten of the toughest league in the world 

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27 minutes ago, Ciderarmy said:

Its just frustrating when you spend a lot of your free time sorting pre season out so you have a chance of progressing only to be 25 games into the season that Leeds should in the top ten of the toughest league in the world 

A league you finished 6th in the year before. 

The situation you've posted about isn't unrealistic in the slightest.  The board would have been looking at you to build upon that 6th place finish, particularly given how strong your finances are. To that end, you've failed miserably. That's football. 

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Hi Dagenham Dave crikey can you tell our chairman of my beloved Bristol City that our manager is failing miserably see above and may be you could get him sacked 

In all seriousness on the flip side do you not think if this was real life Leeds would of massively over achieved by finishing 6th and coming very close to the top ten is a great result 

Can you honestly say ranieri failed at Leicester just because he struggled the next season after winning the prem

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I also disagree with this. Finishing 6th doesn't automatically mean that you will finish in the top 5 the next season. If he managed a strong team I would accept it, but Leeds in the Premier League?

 

And I don't think their finances matter. He surely doesn't have neither the finances nor the reputation of the top 5 PL teams, so signing good players would be massively easy for the likes of Chelsea, MCU, MCI and harder for Leeds.

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5 minutes ago, Lamias said:

I also disagree with this. Finishing 6th doesn't automatically mean that you will finish in the top 5 the next season. If he managed a strong team I would accept it, but Leeds in the Premier League?

 

And I don't think their finances matter. He surely doesn't have neither the finances nor the reputation of the top 5 PL teams, so signing good players would be massively easy for the likes of Chelsea, MCU, MCI and harder for Leeds.

No, finishing 6th doesn't automatically mean that. But that's not the point, the point is what the board expects, and if the board has unrealistic expectations, it doesn't really matter what you or I think is a good league position (nor what anyone else thinks for what it's worth either), they expect a good position in the league, if you can't deliver, then, I'm sorry to say, it's actually your problem (in their eyes). Likely, any other manager will struggle to please the board, but unfortunately, they're the ones who are in position to judge you on your achievement, they decide what's good enough and what's not.

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Hi Makka I agree with you but in real life do you honestly think a board of a club like Leeds would honestly expect there manager to achieve a top 6 finish and wouldn't be satisfied with a europa semi final and a league cup quarter final and a 12th placed finish for me this is where I feel fm has now become a little unrealistic 

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I think it's the board that has unrealistic expectations, but not necessarily that it's lack of game realism that makes them have such. It's happened before, IRL, and I'm pretty sure it'll happen again. I'd say you caught some bad luck with the board, but I don't think it qualifies as an example of bad coding or bugs or anything.

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On 09/12/2018 at 05:48, Ciderarmy said:

I posted about my sacking with Bristol City so I won't bang on about that but it's happening again with my new team 

 

seems to be a recurring thing for you, might be a good idea to look at what you are doing,. may not be the game. all i can go by is what ive seen in the game and ive never been fired nor had a board ultimatum (im also not real good) and ive used every crap club in the game. worth taking a look at your rep in game versus the team rep, etc.   as far as your save, if you finished 6th and you are looking at finishing 12th, you have failed and depending on what your rep is and the clubs rep, you might have a shorter rope to work with.  

In all honesty im not sure why you think you have all this cache stored with the club,. you finished 6th, its not like you won the league or are a club legend.

Edited by Ross Ingersoll

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Ross I think you have missed my point I was trying to say I feel the game doesn't feel realistic and you're right I'm not a club legend but how realistic in the game is it to expect a club like Leeds to consistently finish top ten in the prem

Yes I have 40 million in the bank but I'm also maxed out on the ffp and cannot compete with the likes of the big clubs 

For example I have scouted all the players that would come to Leeds and the highest club a player would come from is the likes of Ajax,middle of the prem teams so how is it realistic to expect a team like Leeds to be consistently in the top ten 

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Forget about, "but in real life", because often in these cases it's a pointless endeavour.  You're talking about Leeds as a club based on how they are in real life, and comparing it to several years into a save that ceased to be realistic the first day you clicked continue.

The game struggles with a lack of context across a number of modules, and it's no different here.  It's a pretty simple formula - if you don't achieve expectations, you will be under pressure.  Nothing about the original post strikes me as particularly unrealistic, all that's lacking is a slight sense of perspective based on your time at the club as a whole.  But even given that, you've led continuous improvement over a few seasons, and then underachieved once the board - presumably - has started to expect more.  None of that is even remotely unrealistic.

Edited by forameuss

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IRL Leeds sack their manager every 5 minutes - why wouldn't they do it in game if they are falling short of the current season's expectations?

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Have a to agree with the OP here.

A similar example would be when Newcastle finished 5th under Alan Pardew only to then finish 16th the season after. Yet he still kept his job a couple more years.

So did Mike Ashley lower the expectations of his manager? Or was he being realistic in thinking the club cant compete with the other bigger spending clubs?

Edited by Bondz

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3 hours ago, Bondz said:

Have a to agree with the OP here.

A similar example would be when Newcastle finished 5th under Alan Pardew only to then finish 16th the season after. Yet he still kept his job a couple more years.

So did Mike Ashley lower the expectations of his manager? Or was he being realistic in thinking the club cant compete with the other bigger spending clubs?

What that tells you, is that Mike Ashley is patient, or even reasonable, compared to the Leeds board in the future in the OP's save.

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