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Mr U Rosler

FM19.3 - ‘Steadfast’ v2 – A flat 4141 for FM19.3

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**Please see latest post for details**

Latest version is Steadfast v2

 

Greetings all,

 

Whilst I had no intention of doing a tactics thread this year, the bug bites once you start playing the game and I really fancied having a good crack at the flat 4141, the Holy Grail of formations for me.

I attempt this to a lesser or greater extent each year only to fail to score enough goals to meet my demands. Defensively, it’s just solid, getting enough goals is always the issue.

This year’s results have been encouraging, winning the league with Spurs, a top half finish for Cardiff (Season 1/Original Squads) as well as an automatic promotion spot with Stockport in League 2 confirming lower league viability.

 

Formation Overview

 

Often the de rigueur choice for difficult away games, particularly employed by European teams for the away leg of Champions League/Europa League knockouts the 4141 and its brother the 451 offer a solid platform for controlling the midfield with easy possession whilst defensively being difficult to play through.

When deployed with ambition, as we do here, the wide players are thrown forward creating a 433 when attacking.

True counter-attacking is difficult as your lone Striker has to do much of the work himself, so instead we rely on a ‘delayed counter’ with some incisive flank play to get us in behind where we can feed balls to our Striker, opposing Winger and our midfielders with their late runs into the box.

20181208183952-1.jpg

 

Here, the Poacher looks a bit isolated but as it’s the only attacking striker role which doesn’t have ‘move into channels’ hard coded into it we are stuck with it. In reality with the Box to Box midfielders being highly mobile this year they get into the box quickly even with their support duty.

Opposing Wingers (those on the opposite flank to the ball during attacks) also come quite narrow into the box to became auxiliary strikers, so in other words, we get enough players into the box quickly enough for us to attack effectively.

As mentioned earlier, our defensive shape is solid assuming we can get into it before we are hit, so the main weakness is counter attacks. This year even normal and deep defensive lines are vulnerable to the ball over the top so we might as well commit fully to the high line and the obligatory high press. We are fairly careful in possession without resorting to ‘work ball into box’, so we don’t lose the ball in dangerous positions too often.

The defensive issues in having dual attacking duties on the flanks are mitigated by the very fact that we have 2 players on each flank, both fairly deep in the formation (no AMR/AML). Between them there is sufficient cover.

 

Getting the upper hand

Aside from just throwing together some roles & duties I like to try and create an ‘effect’ or combination of effects which yields results noticeably better than when that ‘effect’ is absent.

An obvious example is combining a high line with an urgent press. Whilst both instructions are useful in isolation, when combined their positive effects are amplified.

Normally there are gains to be had from encouraging some sort of central overload, but interestingly, not this year.

 

Instead, these are some of the ideas I’ve tried to implement into the tactic.

 

The ‘False 6’

 

The use of a Half Back has a number of ‘knock on’ effects which to my mind allows for the safest yet most incisive way to play out from the back.

Whilst we might have a romanticised vision of our Half Back breaking up play before pinging pin point diagonals up the pitch, the true value is in the ‘passive’ effects his presence creates.

As well as splitting the Centre Backs as described below, he tends to get heavily pressed when on the ball. In fact we want him pressed as this opens up midfield and he will always have a couple of easy lateral passes available to the Split Centre backs who should now have multiple options in front of them, more often than not up the line to his near sided wingback or he may even bypass him and go straight for our Winger.

Whilst no more effective than an Anchor Man or Defensive Midfielder in the defensive phase, the true benefit of our Half Back is in building attacks. His triggering of formation changes set in motion positive effects which help us play through the thirds hopefully resulting in a chance for us to score.

 

Overloading the flanks early

The effect of the Half Back coming deep, the Centre Backs splitting, the Wingbacks pushing up the flanks putting them in close proximity to our Wingers gives us a very early overload on both flanks.

This is a dangerous situation for our opponent with only an astute pass or 1-2 seeing one of our wide players in open space running in behind our opponents defence. Better yet, as the defence is drawn to the ball this leaves our opposing Winger in acres of space and available for a spectacular long diagonal pass seeing him with even more space to attack.

Rest assured our Poacher is on it and is moving centrally towards the penalty spot, pulling defenders with him creating yet more space for our Box to Box guys to run into on the edge of the penalty area.

 

Coup de Grace – The Late Overlap

Nothing utterly undo’s a defence like the late overlap. With all defenders committed this see’s our man suddenly with time and space to deliver a cross or pass into the 6 yard box for a tap in or towards the penalty spot for our midfielders to run onto and finish. The Death Blow.

So, the overriding idea this year, in the absence of strong central play, is both the early and late over loading of the flanks feeding a lone Striker and late runners into the box.

 

Whilst obviously not all goals are scored like this I’ve found allowing/encouraging (not forcing) a wide overload, combined with the use of ‘overlaps’ is worth an extra 10 – 15 goals a season.

 

Results.

 

Cardiff - Weakest team in Premier - no issues here.

20181208184039-1.jpg

 

Tottenham - Title outsider. Squeezed past City

20181208184004-1.jpg

 

Stockport - Predicted 14th. Solid return in lower leagues

20181208184200-1.jpg

 

 

 

Corners – the routine is set up for your Right Back to take corners, just set your 1st & 2nd choice as takers however if you have a preferred taker its worth tweaking the routine.

 



SUITABILITY

Would suggest usage for Underdogs, Mid Table & Upper Mid table teams Home & Away.

Elite teams should probably use something more attacking although this should still be effective, especially for Away fixture

 

TRAINING THREAD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steadfast 4141 v2.fmf

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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oh ***** I wish I saw this before my 1st season in the Serie A with Pro Vercelli after back to back promotions.

 

I went down after not being able to make my 442 work effectively and actually my own rendition of a 4141 flat was very solid vs top sides. Gonna use it for my Serie B campaign and hopefully bounce back up.

 

btw I know in past you always stick to the tactic no matter what, is that the same still, no tweaks when leading or playing as a like favorite or underdog in big matches ?

 

also you happen to have an attribute guide for each position like usually ?

Edited by johangod

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Great read again mr .,Used many of your tactics and idea,s in the past.

Soooo glad temptation got the better of you!!!!

 

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Great work as always Rosler.

Just turned Pro in the Vanarama National and this tactic combined with your training schedules is seeing so good results and improvements across the board! 

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So I just wrapped up the 3rd season using this tactic. I am on FMT19 and I holiday or instant results most games, so I don't really touch the tactic just try to get the right personnel to do the job.

 

The first 3 seasons of this save game I was at Pro Vercelli, Italian Serie C side. They were predicted to finish 3rd in the first season after having been relegated from Serie B. I managed back to back promotions to the Serie A, in hindsight that was a little to fast but I still decided to tell the board I could survive my Serie A season and when I didn't I was sacked. I used my own version of a 442 where I tried to mimic Diego Simeone, the tactic seemed a little more attack heavy  and my tinkering during the Serie A season just couldn't save me.

I really didn't get a lot of rep for back to back promotions and the only teams that wanted to hire me were in the Serie C, so I went to Vitebese Castrense  applied the tactic and have tried to better the squad as I go along. I came in being predicted to go 18th in my first season. We got 16th and survived, our squad was very lackluster but has improved steadily.

In the second season I was predicted 14th and ended up finishing 2nd, qualifying for playoffs. The Italian 3rd tier has a very broad playoff setup, the tier is split into 3x 20 league divisions, winner of each gets Serie B promotion and 2nd thru 10th are entered into a huge playoff, with seeds being given based on final position, 2nd placed teams go straight to quarters, 3rd place goes round of 16, 4th round of 32 and etc.

So despite finishing 2nd and getting right into the Quarters I lost there, just had one of those ties where I didn't finish my chances and got pegged to hard.

 

Third season I really thought we had the quality to win our league and get promoted, it however wasn't solid and consistent enough so 4th place was the result, I went into playoffs feeling quite confident and it seemed to be warranted. I thrashed my opponent, mind you I had to play 3x home/away ties and ran most of my opponent ragged as the screenshots will show. I get a finals spot and play Benevento, one match at a Neutral ground to decide the promotion. What follows is a wrench in the heart and is on display here below. Following that are some screenshots that show my league record and such using this tactic and only really building the squad and sometimes choosing a preferred starting 11 before holidaying a month or two.

 

killingblow.thumb.jpg.267635b159a099ee2d3f2d7d51d148a5.jpg

 

s1.thumb.png.ea57aa33e7a2442e8d4588a623224b4e.pngs2.thumb.png.833375964e2d4748aceb615c74c2837a.pngs3.thumb.png.b6c21ee8260fb690e3a131e689fcaaee.png  

 

If the next seasons doesn't net me promotion I'll move on to something else, probably start a new game and use the tactic from the get go so I can have my own squad more suitable sooner.

Again I'd love it if you had like an attribute guide or suggested player style. I sort of have an idea for them, you usually have these types of B2B that are really more advanced players that bang in goals and assist a lot with and wide players that pose a huge goal threat so I've tried to go for those types of players and my best players are one of my winger and one of my B2B but it's still so helpful when trying to find suitable players to have an attribute guide especially this type of lower league management as you don't know any players really.

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Hi Johan,

Thanks for the post.

You've been unlucky for sure.

It's a shame you instant result as you are unable to use a couple of items in your tool box, good use of substitutes and half time team talks.

This is a physical approach, we seem to get a few lethargic 1st half performances which are sorted by getting stuck into the team at half time.

Your goal difference when you finished 16th is interesting.

I've got some clear ideas on player requirements, I will post them today although I'm doing an academy challenge and I have limited control myself.

I'm top of League 1 following promotion from League 2 based on a strong defensive record so I'm confident in the tactic.

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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Did some initial testing with teams like Bayern, Inter and Real Madrid by going on vacation. Results where really solid, especially Inter conceded extremely few goals. 

Decided to try it out for real (no vaycay) using swedish top team Malmö FF and right now ive played 9 league games, scoring 22 goals and conceding 1 (ONE), despite the fact that my first choice gk is out injured for 2 months and one of my top cbs is long term injured so neither has yet to  feature. Very, very solid. 

This is not a classic possession style tactic ( I assume), you dont get crazy amount of possession, but its enough. And the passing isnt indicating either that this is a possession based style. 

The HB-role isnt generating a good rating in any of the teams that ive tested the tactic with. Casemiro averaged 7.00, which is decent, but Hummels and Gagliardini hade around 6.80. Same thing with Malmö and my HB Lewicki with a 6.88 rating after 8 games. Not sure if this means anything, the HB role might just as well be crucial for the tactic and that the rating system doesnt acknowledge that due to it being too stupid.

 

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Thanks for the feedback Mutumba.

Re the Half Back, as mentioned in the post, our Half Back doesn't do anything spectacularly different to any of the other DM roles when defending/attacking etc but its his passive effect, splitting the the Centre Backs etc which we are after allowing easy play out from the back. Rating are still heavily weighted to goals/assists which will see our DM miss out on high ratings. 

 

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For Johan and anyone else, my thoughts on players roles/types below.

 

Before we start, its worth discussing some salient points on team building, whilst we have 2 wingers with identical roles and instructions, James Milner will play this role differently than Raheem Sterling who will play it differently than Bernardo Silva (who will cut inside with the ball an awful lot).

Same goes for the Box to Box midfielders, Eric Dier will play this role a lot differently than David Silva and this is not purely down to PPM's, the whole balance of attributes contributes to player behaviours on the pitch.

So an additional level of thought can be applied to squad building about 'complimenting styles', whilst David Silva is one of the best midfielders in the world and Bernardo Silva is in great form and is accomplished in central midfield, would we want to play them together? Or would we rather play one of them and have Fernandinho or Delph alongside them with different qualities.

We've all heard stories of great players who cant play together.

I've suggested a couple of 'types' for most roles to help you think along those lines. 

 

POACHER

Our Striker doesn't operate like a traditional Poacher, in fact he's very much a link player, collecting the ball with back to goal, laying it off before then operating a bit more like a normal advanced striker.    

As such pace/acceleration are not a must, but a bonus.

He will only occasionally run in straight on goal instead he'll attack crosses with using his strength/movement  to get in front of defenders.

I envisage a couple of types of striker, a big,powerful Target Man type in the mold of Lukaku, Giroud, Ibrahimovic, Dzeko, Gomez, Costa or at a slightly lesser level Tosun, Slimani, Rondon, Llorente. You can adjust the attributes to find alternative or lower league versions.

Alternatively you can go with a technical striker more in the False 9 mold, going back, Sheringham, Berbatov, Rooney, Tevez, Van Persie would have been nice, now Messi, Firminho, Suarez. Cavani, Aguero (Peps version) etc, as before you can adjust the attributes to find alternative or lower league versions.     

Target Man Type - Strength, Aggression, First Touch, Composure, Finishing 

Technical/False 9 Type - Technique, Finishing, Composure, First Touch, Flair  

Once you hit Elite level as a team you should have a Complete Forward encompassing most of the above, Kane, Lewandowski, Neymar if you coach him in that role.

 

WINGER

Again, we have a couple of 'types' to consider here, the Classic Winger, agile, quick, dribbler who can get past his man, Sterling, Sane, Pedro, Neymar (if you coach him there), Bale, Salah, Mahrez etc.

The alternative is a Wide Midfielder, perhaps lacking the raw pace to beat his man but a quality passer who links play from the flank and offers additional defensive cover in midfield, James Milner, Sigurdsson, Lemar, Aaron Ramsey, often natural Central Midfielders who are accomplished out wide.   

Whilst i'm not saying you can't play with 2 out and out Wingers, 1 of each type offers a nice balance.

The other consideration is the 'cuts inside with ball' PPM which is very influential here, having one of your wingers with this PPM is fine adding variety to play , but you wouldn't want this on both flanks.

 

Classic Winger Type - Acceleration, Dribbling, Flair, Agility, Technique 

Wide Midfielder Type - Passing, Vision, Team Work, Composure, Work Rate   

 

BOX TO BOX MIDFIELDER

Here we have the engine of the team. Again, whilst we have identical roles we can think about the type of players we field here, or to be more precise the combination of players.

The full spectrum of midfielders can be employed here from the more defensive like Kante, Fernandinho, Matic, Jorginho, Casemiro, to the classic Box to Box player like Paulinho, Bonaventura, Khedira, Deli Ali, Hamsik to the magicians Isco, Messi, David Silva, Ericksen, Neymar, Coutinho.

Your pairing can be varied according to the opposition, tough away match perhaps a Box to Box combined with a more defensive player is the way to go, strong favourites at home, then maybe an attack minded magician with a box to box.

Some players are hybrids of 2 of these types of players, great ones can encompass all 3.

 

Defensive type - Team Work, Marking, Tackling, Passing, Aggression

True Box to Box - Work Rate, Stamina, Determination, Passing, Team Work

Attacking/Magician - Flair, Passing, Technique, Vision, Dribbling 

 

HALF BACK

Our main defensive shield. A couple of options here, you can use a ball playing Centre Back here, David Luiz, John Stones, Hummels, Bonucci etc. Most will have some familiarity with the DM position but if not retraining will be fine. This type of player brings good tackling, marking, heading to this position along with decent distribution.

The alternate is more you traditional DM, perhaps not as strong in the air but highly mobile with good distribution, Torreira, Kante, Fernadinho, Jorginho, Biglia etc.

Notice that i've not gone for the play maker type here (Pirlo, Kroos, Banega, Rakitic etc), in this set up they would be better served playing in the Box to Box role where they can be more influential in attacks.

 

Converted Centre Back - Marking, Tackling, Jumping Reach, Composure, Passing

Traditional DM - Tackling, Aggression, Work Rate, Marking,Passing

 

WING BACKS

We are looking for good all round athletes here, they will do the most running out of anyone in the team. A balanced blend of attacking and defensive attributes are required under pinned by strong physical aspects.

I'd look for; Work Rate, Stamina, Tackling, Passing, Crossing

 

CENTRE BACKS 

Nothing out of the ordinary here, however there has to be an emphasis on speed as our main vulnerability is balls over the top. We shouldn't neglect other areas though.

I'd look for; Acceleration, Positioning, Anticipation, Marking, Tackling

 

GOAL KEEPER

We don't require the modern distributing keeper as we don't launch pacy counter attacks very often, distribution from our keeper amounts to simple passes to defenders.

We can concentrate on bread and butter attributes, like; Reflexes, One on One's, Aerial Ability, Handling, Command of Area 

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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Thanks for that clarification of the roles and players to use, really helps when trying to scout for players and it also sort of helps me see how some of my combinations might have been a hindering in doing better.

I got promoted the following season by winning the league and then stayed up in Serie B, predicted 17th and ended up 12th.

One tidbit, because I was such a relegation candidate and seemed to concede so hard using Attacking I played around with only changing to stuff like Positive and Balanced and it seemed to be more efficient in grinding out results so that's something to know.

Also since I'm on Touch I don't get half-time talks even so it's only really the subs that I am missing out on but I'm mostly using this team as a stepping stone to something bigger as they really don't seem to have the means to grow except by doing it very slowly so blitzing the seasons is more satisfying at the moment.

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I have been using this tactic with Aston Villa with great success.  Will screen shot half way through the season and at the end. 11 games in and won 7, drawn 4. Sitting top by 2 points. Highest scorers in the league (23) with 9 against. Villa have some fantastic attacking options in the squad, but are thin on the ground at LB and CB so it's pleasing to see them relatively solid at the back. 

I have been rotating players in the HB position as I wasn't sure who to use. Last 3 games I have settled on McGinn who seems to be doing a decent job. Grealish loves the BBM role alongside Hourihane. Special mention to the young Jake Doyle-Hayes though. He starts the game in the U23's, but I promoted him to the first team after selling Jedinak and getting a couple of injuries. He is a monster in this tactic and is very close to being in the starting XI. He's just won young player of the month and already has 3 goals from 4 starts. 

Tammy Abraham up top is too good for the Championship. He has 7 goals so far, but I'm happy that the goals appear to be shared out between him, the BBM and wingers. Only player I can't seem to get going is Bolasie. I've dropped him in favour of Adomah who seems more adapt in that role. 

Noticeable win was 1-0 against Soton in the League Cup. Considering I made 10 changes to the starting XI I absolutely dominated the game. 

Very promising so far. 

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Match Engine has updated.

I'll run a couple of tests.

 

Cardiff under new ME.

20181211203825-1.jpg 

 

Ran this twice, first time was 13th with 45 points, although not bad was a bit concerned we'd lost our edge, ran it again and got a better result than the original test.

Natural variance, tactic looks fine, i'll run it with Tottenham.

 

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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This is just some more numbers to help you, I played the last season on the old updated ME - ended up in the 9th spot after being predicted 16th.

 

This season I'm actually bottom of the table 31 games in, I've played most of the season on positive so there is that tweak on my end but I did do some Attacking games and it seemed to leak even harder. No idea what's causing it just giving you some extra data if you want to include it. The literal only change I make when adjusting is just the mentality, now I know that can alter the tactic very hard but just letting you know.

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Ok,

So you finished 9th on the old ME, updated the ME and are now bottom of the same league?

My Spurs testing has been a bit off, but not that much.

I'm running some tweaks.

Thanks

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Yeah, mind you I did play with going from Positive, Attacking and two or three on Balanced but it never seemed to drastically change either the results or the in-game stats. I did this for all of my Serie B seasons also, below are the league stats.

s3.thumb.jpg.641efea22f39b39aec415c6e6de2d7f9.jpgs1.thumb.jpg.011ab1a149721532d9cf78f232b9bfe0.jpgs2.thumb.jpg.3ba2a1fc0b3f5033449a02f6ecbc4b9b.jpg  

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Updated version for 19.2 added to opening post and here.

Same formation and player roles, updated TI's, it plays out differently on this ME so will need to update opening post.

Cardiff result with new tactic below. In top half all season, positive goal difference. Pretty satisfied we are back to pre-update levels.

Right Backs to take corners.

20181213084008-1.jpg

 

Will update post with new TI's etc later. 

 

Steadfast 4141 19.2.fmf

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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12 minutes ago, JohnShepard said:

Too many conceded goals.

It's Cardiff, not Man Utd.

Less than Newcastle, Wolves, West Ham, Fulham and Huddersfield.

Also scored more than Man Utd, Chelsea and Everton.

I think finishing 12 places higher than media prediction is ok.

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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36 minutes ago, Mr U Rosler said:

Here you go.

20181213191730-1.jpg

A lot of assists coming from the right hand side. What influenced that?

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Excellent tactic. I have had trouble getting defensive formations like that to work properly, but this gave me some valuable insight into how to approach it. Have been trying it out with Leverkusen, which is loaded with good central midfield players for this tactic (the Bender twins make excellent half backs). And once I got the young wingers (Bailey and Brandt) familiar with the slightly lower non-AM positions, they performed really well.

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Ok,

This is interesting, a few things were bothering me about the tactic, namely a bit lethargic, i've increased tempo, passing range, closing down.

As we're playing through the middle i've tucked in the Wingers  as well moving them to wide midfielders.

The Poacher was isolated on 19.2, the False 9 also had 'move into channels' removed which i like so i've changed the role.

The result was really good with Tottenham.

 

20181214223030-1.jpg

 

New Formation

20181214223020-1.jpgupload picture and get link

 

Harry Kane - Really interesting, only 9 Premier League goals but 18 assists, ALL from open play.

20181214223301-1.jpg

 

Harry, basically a massive creative force teeing up the 4 midfielders for them to smash in.

Running a Cardiff test now but excited about this.

Latest version is 19.2a

 

Set Right Back to take corner

Set Right Back to take right throw ins, Left Back to take Left Throw ins.

 

Steadfast 4141 19.2a.fmf

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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I've been using 19.2a since the 2-1 defeat to Leicester in the League Cup. Apart from the last 2 games it has been highly impressive. West Brom game was a dull affair. Got a player sent off early doors in the Stoke game but dominated for 90 minutes. They had 2 shots on goal and scored from a wonder strike. It was just one of those games where nothing went in. Still, 1 defeat in 22 games is not to be sniffed at. 

Since switching to 19.2a the opposition rarely get a sniff at goal. I can go a game where they only get 1 or 2 shots on goal! The defensive aspect is very impressive. Also, the BBM seem to be chipping in with more goals as well which is nice to see. Grealish is fantastic in this position. McGinn and Bjarnasson rotate the HB position. 

Last 3-4 games I've been rotating the WM and and central midfielders more due to fatigue and players in need of a rest. I have a feeling that may have contributed to the slight drop in form last 2 games. 

2018-12-15-3.png

2018-12-15-5.png

2018-12-15-4.png

 

Will post when the season is finished. 

Edited by Bigsi

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19.2a Cardiff result is in.

20181215080905-1.jpg

 

20181215081010-1.jpg

 

20181215081027-1.jpg

 

 

Can't really argue with 54 points and a +10 goal difference.

Playing through Kane is one thing, Zohore another but he's done ok and proven to be a good foil for Ralls and Arter to operate as goal scoring midfielders.

 

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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Bigsi,

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the False 9.

As much as i enjoy the effect of playing through him, i'm slightly unsure about using a lone striker as a foil/creator rather than the main Goalscorer.

I'm wondering if a Trequartista might be a better option, operating a bit higher up the pitch but still bringing the midfield into play whilst carrying more of a goal scoring threat themselves.

Can't really argue with the results 'as is' mind, but i think we're a couple of tweaks away from something really, really good.

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I do think it's the one position that is a slightly weak link in otherwise a fantastic tactic.  Abraham (and Kodjia to a larger extent) disappear for large periods of play.  13 goals in 20 games for Abraham is a good return having said that. 

I've got a 12 point cushion and an hour to kill. Lets see the Trequartista gets on. 

Edited by Bigsi

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You could be on to something here. Abraham was linking up the play further up the field, and in a far more dangerous area of the pitch. Tended to do most of his business in or around the 'D'. Dragging defenders laterally, it was enabling the 4 midfielders to advance into space in the final third.  Leeds were on a 9 match unbeaten run as well I might add. 

 

2018-12-15-6.png

Edited by Bigsi

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Some more data on the 19.2 updated tactic from me.

Little back story on the save game, This was the 14th season in my Luasanne-Sport save that I started some time ago. I am a complete powerhouse in the Swiss league, I started in the 2nd tier, won that got promoted and have since won the title 11 times - missing out on the first season in the top flight and then a blip in 2022/23 when Young Boys snagged it. I have also won the cup 8 out of the last 9 seasons, so as you could guess I have by far the best squad in Switzerland but it's of course always about European glory.

 

I've been playing with a plethora of tactics mostly from the forums from knap but I've tried other peoples, it doesn't really seem to matter in the league as I thrash it most of the times but CL glory has really been fleeting. below are screenshots of my CL and EL runs.

 

cl.thumb.png.b4713c1f07096d6eee38d62731d821bd.pngel.thumb.png.4ec709ddf2b2d160a2a22e0bedf1cd16.png 

 

This was the first season that I used your tactic, and something to mind is my squad was not really built for a 4141 as I'd been playing a 3412 most of the time so my squad was more suited for that, I did however have a good budget so I was able to assemble a squad that was just fine. As you can see I did manage a CL Final run, where I even was up 2-1 at half time but Man City proved to good - unsurprisingly really.

Here are my results, mind you I read this thread before starting and actually swapped my ST to Treq right away, but did use a F9 for some of the later CL stages, I'll post my main ST stats and the squad stats with the Starting XI selected to help.

 

league.thumb.png.20c7b0ce8088100ddc912394ac47962a.pngcomps.thumb.jpg.3c314dc2022c972bad6c0da6aa965a9b.jpg 

 

 

squad.thumb.jpg.5b13a9e0addfc15b202378cc4acb5eaf.jpgguebbles.thumb.jpg.32b6f320c99cd51e3fdb4899818a8abe.jpg  

 

I'll be happy to provide more details if wanted. I'm going to run it for two or three more seasons and see if I can finally get my CL title.

For some odd reason I can't delete  the duplicate screens of my ST

guebbles.jpg

Edited by johangod

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Would you say its preferable to have a big, strong player as F9 in this tactic (Zohore, Kane)? Perhaps even with a  "plays back towards goal"-PPM? As he drops deep and shields the ball in order to bring the midfielders into play? 

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Thanks for the feedback Johan,

I run with the False 9 now, whilst the Trequartista scores more, he contributes less than the False 9 overall, including defensively.

But you're getting good results so the Treq is an option for strong teams.

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Mutumba,

It was envisioned as a 'back to goal' type player, likely a big, target man type in the lower leagues or a technical player in the top league.

Kane would be the archetype forward, the 'Complete Forward' is what you're aiming for once your a Champions League team.

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Quick update while I'm sat at the vets. 

I've reverted back to 19.2 and using Abraham as a Poacher and results have picked up. He went 11 games without scoring. Coupled with some key players out injured (Grealish, Bolasie, Tuanzebe), we lost form. I also sold Hutton who asked to leave, and Elmo who went to Genoa for 2.1 Mill. 

We've still only lost 1 game all season coming into March which is fantastic. I was struggling to draw games and not creating very much at all. 

Since switching back to 19.2 and having the defensive line a little deeper we've won 3 and drawn 1 with Abraham back amongst the goals. The 'over the top ball' was doing me game after game, hence the defensive line sat deeper. 

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3 hours ago, Bigsi said:

Quick update while I'm sat at the vets. 

I've reverted back to 19.2 and using Abraham as a Poacher and results have picked up. He went 11 games without scoring. Coupled with some key players out injured (Grealish, Bolasie, Tuanzebe), we lost form. I also sold Hutton who asked to leave, and Elmo who went to Genoa for 2.1 Mill. 

We've still only lost 1 game all season coming into March which is fantastic. I was struggling to draw games and not creating very much at all. 

Since switching back to 19.2 and having the defensive line a little deeper we've won 3 and drawn 1 with Abraham back amongst the goals. The 'over the top ball' was doing me game after game, hence the defensive line sat deeper. 

Hi Bigsi,

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm still confident 19.2a is the way to go.

After some testing i'd suggest the Trequartista tweak for top teams (in the top 4 of your division), False 9 for everyone else.

As Villa in the Championship you probably qualify as a top team. When you get promoted to the Premier league i'd go with the False 9 for sure.

I holidayed a season with Man City to see how a top team would handle the basic False 9 set up, although they won the league, only losing 3 games all season, they had 10 draws, a sure sign that the default False Nine set up is not quite attacking enough for top teams.    

 

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@Mr U Rosler

I also use a 4141 similar to yours , but I play with 1 Mezzala and an Anchorman.

Also the Tis are quite similar ,but I like to focus play down the left and right.

Results are very good but I have a strong side.

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9 minutes ago, roggiotis said:

@Mr U Rosler

I also use a 4141 similar to yours , but I play with 1 Mezzala and an Anchorman.

Also the Tis are quite similar ,but I like to focus play down the left and right.

Results are very good but I have a strong side.

Yep, its solid.

19.1 i liked the wide play, 19.2 i'm enjoying playing through the middle.

What role do you use for the Striker by the way?

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F9 ( I told you all the other roles r the same ) ,sometimes If I want to be more attacking I play with 2 Mezz

Edited by roggiotis

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6 hours ago, Mr U Rosler said:

Hi Bigsi,

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm still confident 19.2a is the way to go.

After some testing i'd suggest the Trequartista tweak for top teams (in the top 4 of your division), False 9 for everyone else.

As Villa in the Championship you probably qualify as a top team. When you get promoted to the Premier league i'd go with the False 9 for sure.

I holidayed a season with Man City to see how a top team would handle the basic False 9 set up, although they won the league, only losing 3 games all season, they had 10 draws, a sure sign that the default False Nine set up is not quite attacking enough for top teams.    

 

I've just been promoted with 5 games to go. Stoke have been the only team to beat me (Home and Away). Abraham and El Ghazi (MR) are joint top scorers with 19 each. I'll switch back to 19.2a now the title is wrapped up. Got all my players back now so it shouldn't be an issue. 

Although results picked when I switched to 19.2, it was a bit Kevin Keeganesque. High scoring draw's or winning 3-2, 4-3 etc. I guess that's a true replica of Villa IRL. At least with promotion to the Prem, and around 50 mill to spend, I'll be able to tailor my needs to the tactic. 

Only losing twice all season, in a tough league is not to be sniffed at. 

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my first season into Vanarama (i dont really like 2 test tactics with Top EU team) with ofc FC United :)

 

predicted last (22th):

wpga4U.jpg

 

final placement:

wE1dMb.jpg

 

my focus is to get promoted to premier league playing with this 4141...

 

btw it happens even this:

pzjxRi.jpg

feelsbadman:onmehead:

 

by now gg!

 

Edited by Sirraf

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just finished 2nd season after promotion into vanarama league and here the results:

 

LEAGUE TABLE:

YJ2mV6.jpg

 

MY SQUAD VALUE:

hNw6l8.jpg

 

GOAL ASSISTS:

e7MGC8.jpg

 

 

GOAL TYPES:

jMVLX0.jpg

 

 

@roggiotis sorry for late but i could not take first season stats ç_ç but only the last season... but as u can see my squad still remains really bad compared to other teams

Edited by Sirraf

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Good job Sirraf :applause: ,good luck in league 2 now.

95 goals very impressive, first in the league with Tranmere , post the top 3 goalscorers,

the defense did ok also ,3rd in the league.

Where will you strength your team now ?

I intended to start with a team of media prediction 22 in Vanarama in England but you were faster than me :)

Maybe I ll start with Oxford City in Vanarama South

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Looking at a 442 for when you're one of the stronger teams in the division as the 4141 gets a bit 'grindy' with a few too many draws.

Needs a bit of work but that is a load of goals and a massive goal difference. 

20181220222139-1.jpgscreen shot

Will see if i can tighten things up little.

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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14 ore fa, Mr U Rosler ha scritto:

Looking at a 442 for when you're one of the stronger teams in the division as the 4141 gets a bit 'grindy' with a few too many draws.

Needs a bit of work but that is a load of goals and a massive goal difference. 

20181220222139-1.jpgscreen shot

Will see if i can tighten things up little.

well... what the most i like of your 4141 is your defense... i hope this 442 could be the same :P

 

Il 20/12/2018 in 07:42 , roggiotis ha scritto:

Good job Sirraf :applause: ,good luck in league 2 now.

95 goals very impressive, first in the league with Tranmere , post the top 3 goalscorers,

the defense did ok also ,3rd in the league.

Where will you strength your team now ?

I intended to start with a team of media prediction 22 in Vanarama in England but you were faster than me :)

Maybe I ll start with Oxford City in Vanarama South

i think i had to take all the best because my team really sucks respect others xD

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