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Mitja

102 Crosses by Liverpool in One Match

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30 crosses by Walker and 19 by Mendy alone. 

City real life avarage is 19 per game.

- ML/R & AML/R need to mark fullbacks properly no metter the duty, they have too much time and space on the wings.

- in real football fullbacks don't dribble down the line nearly close compared to FM. they are crossing machines in FM.

- forwards are not involved in play (check passing stats in pkm), they offer no support in wide area once the ball is in final third. Walker has more crossing attempts than Sane and Aguero passing attempts combined!!! 

 

Crystal Palace v Man City.pkm

Edited by Mitja

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Thank you for posting this and providing PKM's. 

We will look further into this. Feel free to keep posting PKM's with extreme amounts of crosses. 

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fullbacks attacking positioning is far too advanced, looks at how deep the ball is and where FBs stand. if they loose the ball there's 3 on 2 situation, such situation wouldn't happen to pro players especially not on both sides. in FM it happens all the time. those FB are on support duty not attack!!!

c845931e0c419aa67f6d6c198683ea5f.png

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3 minutes ago, Mitja said:

fullbacks attacking positioning is far too advanced, looks at how deep the ball is and where FBs stand. if they loose the ball there's 3 on 2 situation, such situation wouldn't happen to pro players especially not on both sides. in FM it happens all the time. those FB are on support duty not attack!!!

c845931e0c419aa67f6d6c198683ea5f.png

Are you using Full-Backs or Wing-Backs?

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this is AI with ball, i'm using wingbacks support and it's like that more or less. imho all support duty DR/Ls need to be behind opposition wide player, only attack should be allowed to constantly get behind him. they shouldn't allow 2 on 3 situation if they loose the ball, that's the key. it was like that on FM17 i believe.

Edited by Mitja

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Are your wingers / IFs on support or attacking?

It's normal for teams to leave markers and one free at the back (i.e. 2v1, 3v2 etc). In fact, that's what coaches teach youth players. 

The issue IMO is the IFs not doing their job well enough to track back. Unless you've left them on attacking. 

Edited by pauly15

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what's the most important thing here is that such situation (being exposed for counters like that) wouldn't happen often irl, especially not both FB leaving their markers like that. only if team is chasing the score but then i would excpect both FBs being on attack duty. in current ME such situation happens very often and is probably one of the most important reasons why there are too many crosses imo. who's defending too deep or attacking too aggressive it's debatable, imo all wide forwards defend until the box irl and FBs usually don't let their team being exsposed like that.

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wide forwards could at least try to get to the correct defensive positions. counter attack never happens. blocking passing lanes to FBs is the only job they should do once defense is settled.

8d6ee196e8c8ff16efa8e902df7738f3.png

Edited by Mitja

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8 hours ago, Mitja said:

wide forwards could at least try to get to the correct defensive positions. counter attack never happens. blocking passing lanes to FBs is the only job they should do once defense is settled.

8d6ee196e8c8ff16efa8e902df7738f3.png

100% agree with this. Even when IFs (on support or attack) are in position to defend the run of a FB, they don't. 

This is more the issue than the FB and WB behaviour, which is as the manager is requesting.

The other cause if this is obviously the central play issue. If IFs dont track back and CMs and AMs can't play centrally... The result is the obvious one we've got. 

For me, the way to fix this ties in to 95% of the problems with the ME:

- players can't be coded to just move to a particular line or spot in the pitch then become static. This is the case with IFs, strikers, and even FBs when the ball is lost.

- no tweak to wide play (attacking or defensive) will resolve an ME where AMs and CMs can't play central through balls, and strikers don't make runs once the ball has advanced higher up the pitch.

Edited by pauly15

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My opinion is that the Wide attacking midfielders (mainly wingers and IFs) should behave the same in defence, regardless of their duty. They should make sure to block passing lanes and press the fullbacks. Their duty should only influence what will they do when possession is gained. Support duty, should get closer to the play and look to get a pass at his feet. Attack duty should bomb forward into space(while still taking into account the team's final third instructions) the moment possession is gained.

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5 hours ago, Vali184 said:

My opinion is that the Wide attacking midfielders (mainly wingers and IFs) should behave the same in defence, regardless of their duty. They should make sure to block passing lanes and press the fullbacks. Their duty should only influence what will they do when possession is gained. Support duty, should get closer to the play and look to get a pass at his feet. Attack duty should bomb forward into space(while still taking into account the team's final third instructions) the moment possession is gained.

i agree in everything. but stll fullbacks can't play constantly as advanced as in FM. it's not posible for players to run that much. in FM in every attack they are on the edge of the box. plus they are too early positioned that way which meens they run even more when ball gets intercepted.

last patch made AI to use even more attacking FBs. and use more width. :seagull:

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actually there's one thing i don't agree. players like messi, ronaldo, hazard, salah they don't play defense and imo the game should reflect that too. the only option left and it looks last patch made such changes, that AI doesn't use more than one AML/R with attack duty. but then even bigger problem arises where to put another few attack duties. and unfortunatly FB position along with FC is natural choice then. i'd consider limiting number of attack duties, there's no need for too many attack duties especially not when using more aggressive mentalities. i remember on fm17 AI changed striker duties depending on your tactics.  you played without DM or MCd support role, when you used that they employed attack role. in that respect i wouldn't expect attack duty FB on side where such quality wide forwards play - FBs need to provide cover first. 

Edited by Mitja

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1 hour ago, Mitja said:

actually there's one thing i don't agree. players like messi, ronaldo, hazard, salah they don't play defense and imo the game should reflect that too. the only option left and it looks last patch made such changes, that AI doesn't use more than one AML/R with attack duty. but then even bigger problem arises where to put another few attack duties. and unfortunatly FB position along with FC is natural choice then. i'd consider limiting number of attack duties, there's no need for too many attack duties especially not when using more aggressive mentalities. i remember on fm17 AI changed striker duties depending on your tactics.  you played without DM or MCd support role, when you used that they employed attack role. in that respect i wouldn't expect attack duty FB on side where such quality wide forwards play - FBs need to provide cover first. 

How much they drop to aid the defense should be reflected by their work rate attribute. I never saw a difference between a wide forward with high or low work rate. They would never try to block the fullback. The moment I told them to man mark the fullback, they were running like madmen, no matter what their work rate were. I don't know Hazard's or Salah's work rate attribute, but Messi's is very low. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but the match engine is bad from it's core, and not only in this version. It will never replicate how real football is played (but I still play FM).

Edited by Vali184

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yeah i guess you are right and there's actually wide trequartista role which could be implemented it doesn't defend deep. poor defending of wide area seems like being the major issue why that many crosses happen in some games. the other is defenetely that FBs are too attacking all the time. crossing and dribbling desire could be toned down on attacking mentalities too.

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I think long passes should be harder to make and long passes from side to side should easily be read out by the defense or middlefield. At the moment def is too static and passing/Vision is overtuned especially under pressure.

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Increase time and space player needs to get cross out. How many times in real life ball bounces from block over backline and not sideline or is lost? Thats why in real life theres no point try to cross that often and risk losing possession or get countered.

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Defending from A.I and FM needs improving

I've talked about AML/AMR defending responsibilities in the past.. SI doesn't agree

It has been an issue for years what makes FM users think it will be fixed now

 

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Edited by kingking

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