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dannysheard

Urgent: only post in here if you agree FM is far too easy

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25 league games in as Liverpool in first season: started tactic from scratch; unbeaten; 13 points clear at the top; six goals conceded; £90m in profit on transfers; wage bill down by £20m per year; beat Bayern home and away in group stage of CL; in League Cup final.

This is definitely not showing off by the way, as this forum is full of people who are doing just as well, if not better.

Edited by dannysheard

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it's the first time i agree not maybe difficulty levels but there could be two versions like touch and normal for long term guys or LL managers and guys who want more realistic and tactical game. seems impossible to satisfy both groups now.

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15 minutes ago, iMan said:

Go manage a crap team if you want something more difficult.

LLM is just as easy this year. Something is off about this years game. Its just way too easy to win.

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28 minutes ago, iMan said:

Go manage a crap team if you want something more difficult.

when clubs like Liverpool become hardest to manage then we'll have hell of the game.

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The only 'difficulty' setting in the game is how you create your manager, with no coaching and playing experience, you will have zero support especially when managing a big club until after the first few months and you start producing results.  Thats the only difficulty level, as nobody wants to see artificial difficulty in a simluation like this.

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you haven't even finshed a season yet with one if not the most overpowered team on the game and your calling the game to easy.....i honestly don't think FM is the game for you, there's so many different variables at play here.

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Try managing Liverpool with the lowest coaching badge and your past playing experience as Sunday League Player. Then come back to us. ;)

That's about as close as you'll get to having a difficulty setting in FM. Having official Easy/Moderate/Hard difficulty settings that would make Fulham play like Man City (or vice versa) just because you're playing against them would make FM feel more arcadey than a proper simulation.

Edited by CFuller

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56 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

25 league games in as Liverpool in first season: started tactic from scratch; unbeaten; 13 points clear at the top; six goals conceded; £90m in profit on transfers; wage bill down by £20m per year; beat Bayern home and away in group stage of CL; in League Cup final.

This is definitely not showing off by the way, as this forum is full of people who are doing just as well, if not better.

Haha... The title made me chuckle. You know im an advocate of making the game harder. I dont think they will or should make 'levels' it should just be as realistic as possible.

In the perfect solution the ME represents real life football and player attributes are accurate (i still believe the range needs increasing 10 fold or more to really show the difference in class between worlds best (top 5-10), elite players, top league players, good players, low league players, part time players...1-200 even at the extreme cannot compare messi to a 40 yr old overweight reserve gk/coach who eats pies on the subs bench).... [but dont let svenc hear me say that, he thinks its a very fine line between the two and messi is just a bit lucky].... So the players impact on the match sufficiently more so than just tactics... 

Then organically the game becomes harder. 

I. E. Through balls, ball retention (waring the opposition out more, and it having a tangible effect) etc are just as powerful in the ME as in real life.. And we might see Man City beat a team like Burnley who play deep and direct. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Nacaw said:

By choosing to start with Liverpool, you've selected the difficulty level of "Rookie". If you support Liverpool and want to manage them, how about starting at the bottom and work your way up to earn that job? That's a different difficulty level. 

How is starting as a team that finished 20+ behind another team in the league last season and hasn't won a trophy for years and has the 4th/5th budget in their league 'rookie' level?

It plays as 'rookie' level on FM because the game isn't set up properly to provide a challenge for good players, which is the point of this thread, to highlight the fact that if you're half-decent at the game and you manage any of the top six teams in a league, you are likely to win that league the vast majority of the time.

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3 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

How is starting as a team that finished 20+ behind another team in the league last season and hasn't won a trophy for years and has the 4th/5th budget in their league 'rookie' level?

It plays as 'rookie' level on FM because the game isn't set up properly to provide a challenge for good players, which is the point of this thread, to highlight the fact that if you're half-decent at the game and you manage any of the top six teams in a league, you are likely to win that league the vast majority of the time.

Then go play online and stop moaning about it, you can have a fantastic season in FM, build the best team ever and still fail the following the season, ive played FM for as long as i can remember and what am telling you is a fact.

Edited by iAlwaysWin

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5 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Try managing Liverpool with the lowest coaching badge and your past playing experience as Sunday League Player. Then come back to us. ;)

That's about as close as you'll get to having a difficulty setting in FM. Having official Easy/Moderate/Hard difficulty settings that would make Fulham play like Man City (or vice versa) just because you're playing against them would make FM feel more arcadey than a proper simulation.

That's like saying if you find a FPS game too easy, rather than wanting the game to be harder, you should swap your gun for a potato.

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9 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Haha... The title made me chuckle. You know im an advocate of making the game harder. I dont think they will or should make 'levels' it should just be as realistic as possible.

In the perfect solution the ME represents real life football and player attributes are accurate (i still believe the range needs increasing 10 fold or more to really show the difference in class between worlds best (top 5-10), elite players, top league players, good players, low league players, part time players...1-200 even at the extreme cannot compare messi to a 40 yr old overweight reserve gk/coach who eats pies on the subs bench).... [but dont let svenc hear me say that, he thinks its a very fine line between the two and messi is just a bit lucky].... So the players impact on the match sufficiently more so than just tactics... 

Then organically the game becomes harder. 

I. E. Through balls, ball retention (waring the opposition out more, and it having a tangible effect) etc are just as powerful in the ME as in real life.. And we might see Man City beat a team like Burnley who play deep and direct. 

 

I think I'm just venting my frustration at how easy the game is.

Coming on here is a bit like going to the zoo after a hard day at work and throwing peanuts at monkeys.

Edited by dannysheard

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7 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Try managing Liverpool with the lowest coaching badge and your past playing experience as Sunday League Player. Then come back to us

I get what you and others are saying (danny and i have answered this line of thought in a couple of other threads) 

The game is sold as simulation and realism trumps 'arcade/gaming/fun'... So yeah there are a few things you can do to make it harder... But its not natural/realistic. No sunday leaguer with zero badges would manage a club like Liverpool... Likewise no international coach with all the badges should manage roys rovers. I think the badges/profile is there to add realism not difficulty. So you should setup according to the club you manage. 

Im absolutely of the opinion, with that consideration, that managing a top teams should still be a challenge. A. I controlled city, chelsea, liverpool, arsenal, utd should, more often than not (allowing for the odd random querk to make each save different), post consistently good pts totals. 

Seeing several of those teams fail more often than not and not post title challenging points... And sack their manager... Is not a good simulation. Take the human out of it... Yes we can squad build far better and create better tactics...the AI significantly underachieve with big clubs... Too frequently. 

They cannot adapt... Pretty much the whole GD community is aware by now that playing possesion based central attacking play is 'broken' we can adapt... AI pep cant... Hes pretty much hard coded to play a certain way. 

Fix the ME and knock on effect should be far reaching

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He actually hasn't mentioned anything about realism, he just wants the game to be harder, there's many ways to make this happen, but he seems to be refusing to go any other team because apparently he supports Liverpool, which is quite ridiculous to begin with.

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Its not just the coaching badges though is it mate? If your being honest, you switched off attribute masking, you gave yourself the highest ratings in motivation etc, you then read the latest guides on all the worldwide wonderkids and bought all of them, etc etc...

Then the game is too easy lol.

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1 minute ago, iAlwaysWin said:

He actually hasn't mentioned anything about realism, he just wants the game to be harder, there's many ways to make this happen, but he seems to be refusing to go any other team because apparently he supports Liverpool, which is quite ridiculous to begin with.

Person walks into game developer: "I've got an idea for a football management game... it'll sell loads... the only problem is it isn't really suitable for anyone that wants to play as Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Real, Barca, Atletico, Juventus, Inter, AC Milan, Napoli, Roma, Lazio, Bayern, Dortmund, PSG or Monaco or any other big team for that matter... would that be a problem with sales?"

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It's Liverpool though.

 

The first FM I played, I played with Arsenal who I support. I wasn't very good, and had a poor season, but was nowhere near being sacked....

 

Because my poor season was easily getting top four. Unless you really screw with tactics, you should not be getting lower than top four so these saves are always easy.

 

It's more fun managing in other countries or lower league

Edited by theonets

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31 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Try managing Liverpool with the lowest coaching badge and your past playing experience as Sunday League Player. Then come back to us. ;)

That's about as close as you'll get to having a difficulty setting in FM. Having official Easy/Moderate/Hard difficulty settings that would make Fulham play like Man City (or vice versa) just because you're playing against them would make FM feel more arcadey than a proper simulation.

That is not very true either. I actually tried this with Arsenal on FM18. I still easily got top four, even if players did not like me at all, and kept creating trouble.

 

Within two seasons, my reputation was high enough that players wanted to play for me, and I won the league. 

 

That said, any save starting with Liverpool/Arsenal is unrealistic. Even most world stars won't get that as their first job (Eg: Henry at Monaco first)

Edited by theonets

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Just now, theonets said:

It's Liverpool though.

 

The first FM I played, I played with Arsenal who I support. I wasn't very good, and had a poor season, but was nowhere near being sacked....

 

Because my poor season was easily getting top four. Unless you really screw with tactics, you should not be getting lower than top four so these saves are always easy.

 

It's more fun managing in other countries or lower league

Point taken. I thought it might be more fun playing as the team I support, but you're right.

Anyway, must dash; I'm going round to the neighbour's house to play with their children rather than my own for a few hours.

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Someone needs to tell Klopp how easy he should win the league IRL. Apparently... Manage Liverpool = obviously win title

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6 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Im absolutely of the opinion, with that consideration, that managing a top teams should still be a challenge. A. I controlled city, chelsea, liverpool, arsenal, utd should, more often than not (allowing for the odd random querk to make each save different), post consistently good pts totals. 

You are asking for something that fundamentally goes against the idea of FM. The game has always been about treating the human player and the AI completely the same. Other games have difficulty levels by giving the AI boosts, or disadvantages to the human player. Do you really want a match engine that favors the AI by 20%, or reduce your players attributes by 5/10/? %? Because that's the only solution to create what you are asking for.

Top clubs underperforming has nothing to do with needing difficulty level, you can't just boost certain clubs and not others. It's possible big clubs are underperforming, but that is a GAME ISSUE, and something that should be solved in the game. Not something ramping up the difficulty level helps with. 

 

3 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Real, Barca, Atletico, Juventus, Inter, AC Milan, Napoli, Roma, Lazio, Bayern, Dortmund, PSG or Monaco or any other big team for that matter... would that be a problem with sales?"

These are the very best clubs in football. This game is based on bigger clubs = less of a challenge to manage. As for sales, FM has done quite well, don't you think? 

 

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2 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Someone needs to tell Klopp how easy he should win the league IRL. Apparently... Manage Liverpool = obviously win title

But Klopp, Emery don't start with 50-60 million ON TOP of the players they bought, like we do in FM. 

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@Nacaw i said the opposite... Im opposed to difficulty levels. All im saying is if the ME was realistic, and player attributes had sufficient impact within the ME... Then teams like City would naturally be more competitive. As they have the best players. Why do they currently not challenge Danny (take him out of it... They are 13 pts behind!!)? Its because the ME does not favour the preferences hard coded into Peps profile.. Fix the ME or make the AI managers more dynamic, and make player attributes more meaningful 

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3 minutes ago, theonets said:

But Klopp, Emery don't start with 50-60 million ON TOP of the players they bought, like we do in FM. 

Please see my point about £90m in profit on transfers after the January window (first window was switched off).

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2 minutes ago, theonets said:

But Klopp, Emery don't start with 50-60 million ON TOP of the players they bought, like we do in FM. 

The budgets are set based on fairly accurate information about the clubs finances. So... Yeah they probably did. 

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Just now, westy8chimp said:

The budgets are set based on fairly accurate information about the clubs finances. So... Yeah they probably did. 

Yes, but a lot of that budget is reserved for January. 

 

Also, Klopp does not make the signings. Neither does Emery. In FM, we have unprecedented control over things. Try playing the same with a DOF.

1 minute ago, dannysheard said:

Please see my point about £90m in profit on transfers after the January window (first window was switched off).

I think the Major issue is that FM can't simulate for Pep again breaking 100 points. 

 

If City had a normal season, Liverpool would be top.

 

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4 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

@Nacaw i said the opposite... Im opposed to difficulty levels. All im saying is if the ME was realistic, and player attributes had sufficient impact within the ME... Then teams like City would naturally be more competitive. As they have the best players. Why do they currently not challenge Danny (take him out of it... They are 13 pts behind!!)? Its because the ME does not favour the preferences hard coded into Peps profile.. Fix the ME or make the AI managers more dynamic, and make player attributes more meaningful 

Do you mean competitive like this?

Screenshot-8.png

 

As i said to many variables at play here, anyone who said's FM is to easy doesn't understand how FM works.

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@dannysheard these threads are always more frustrating than constructive! Too many people either **** at the game or believe they are genius'...

Pretentios snob 1: yeh but play as village fc and let the dof do everything and dont play a gk and the game is difficult choff choff choff

Pretentious snob 2: let your dof sign 8 wbs whilst selling all your strikers and only use your u18s choff choff choff *chokes on artichoke burger*

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4 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

@dannysheard these threads are always more frustrating than constructive! Too many people either **** at the game or believe they are genius'...

Pretentios snob 1: yeh but play as village fc and let the dof do everything and dont play a gk and the game is difficult choff choff choff

Pretentious snob 2: let your dof sign 8 wbs whilst selling all your strikers and only use your u18s choff choff choff *chokes on artichoke burger*

I know :lol:

I shouldn't really come on here, but it's just so much fun. Micky, luv, what's the capital of France? WINE!

 

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15 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

@Nacaw i said the opposite... Im opposed to difficulty levels. All im saying is if the ME was realistic, and player attributes had sufficient impact within the ME... Then teams like City would naturally be more competitive. As they have the best players. Why do they currently not challenge Danny (take him out of it... They are 13 pts behind!!)? Its because the ME does not favour the preferences hard coded into Peps profile.. Fix the ME or make the AI managers more dynamic, and make player attributes more meaningful 

Liverpool leading the league by 13 points in one out of millions of simulations does not bother me, nor does it require any explanation. Liverpool has a great team right out of the gate, it's a fairly realistic outcome & I would be worried if no user could manage this. 

Edited by Nacaw

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1 minute ago, Nacaw said:

Liverpool leading the league by 13 points in one out of millions of simulations does not bother me, nor does it require any explanation. Liverpool has a great team right out of the gated, it's a fairly realistic outcome & I would be worried if no user could manage this. 

:Bowen:

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Play the game with some LLM rules (no downloaded tactics, no checking any databases or guides, no unrealistic scouting, no unrealistic transfers, can only hire staff who apply for jobs, etc.). Or else start unemployed and earn the Liverpool job.

Liverpool are one of the ten best teams in the game; of course it's easy to win with them.

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36 minutes ago, Double Indemnity said:

Liverpool are one of the ten best teams in the game; of course it's easy to win with them.

So if Danny was City instead of Pool... He should expect to come second... Because the Ai would win so easily with Liverpool right? 

Klopp has global rep, good attributes.. And doesnt need to read cleons guide on the game.. Because HE IS THE GAME...so easy peasy. 

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2 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

So if Danny was City instead of Pool... He should expect to come second... Because the Ai would win so easily with Liverpool right? 

Klopp has global rep, good attributes.. And doesnt need to read cleons guide on the game.. Because HE IS THE GAME...so easy peasy. 

Maybe or maybe not, all second guessing in a simulation that can take one hundred turns for the best or the worse in the blink of an eye, very subjective am afraid.

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I’m finding it very hard. 

I don’t understand the tactics this year. I think it’s finally got too involved for me. 

I play as arsenal, and I’m 10 games in, 2nd in the league but my matches have been very laboured. 90% of crosses blocked and no real confidence in any tactic. 

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We had already more than one such thread. 

People who think the game is too easy should post in the bugs forum, if they think something is wrong in their game.

There is also a feature request forum, if you think there should be difficulty levels or whatever would make the game harder for you.

But just accept, that this game is made for a lot of people who are playing it in many different ways. 

As others stated, if it becomes to boring to manage a top club, why don't you try some other challenges with a club in a lower division in a league you never heard before? 

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