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1 hour ago, Hywel said:

Hi all, I'm in the market for a new laptop and any help is greatly appreciated!

Ideally I want a very thin and lightweight laptop as I'll be taking it to uni most days. Will be using it for work, streaming football, netflix etc. and playing FM occasionally. Happy to play on low/mid end settings but keen to have a high end quality screen (preferably not touch) and good quality build and aesthetics.

Budget is upwards of £800.

Been looking around and found all sorts, this one seems good specs for the price (~£765 after student discount and cashback). https://uk-store.acer.com/acer-swift-5-ultra-thin-touchscreen-laptop-sf514-54gt-zilver

From what I gather it is similar to other high-end ultrabooks like the XPS 13 but with better specs? 

Any other recommendations will be great, also looked at the asus zenbook versions but can't get a student discount there.

AMD is superior to Intel on the current generation for both performance and battery life, so I'd definitely go with a Ryzen 4000 based laptop if you can. This also comes in a higher specification but I couldn't find one available in the UK currently and it's really not necessary for what you'll be using it for. 

Lenovo are currently offering their Yoga Slim 7 at a smidge over £800 with a Ryzen 7 4700u processor (far more powerful than the one in the Acer you're looking at) and boasting a decent screen (100% sRGB) and battery life (14 hours quoted). The main problem that I can see is that they are only offering it in purple currently.

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11 hours ago, Gangor said:

Not sure where you get this from. The 9700F provides slightly better single- and multi-core performance (ref https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-9700F-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3600X/m816132vs4041) and the 1660ti is a higher tier part than the 1660S. 

As I said though the difference isn't great so price should be the deciding factor.

Operates at a faster base clock speed
Less cores - but more threads available
More than double the L2+L3 Cache


 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Gangor said:

AMD is superior to Intel on the current generation for both performance and battery life, so I'd definitely go with a Ryzen 4000 based laptop if you can.

*I've edited this post.

Yes - this is correct in terms of the slim laptops - I hadn't realised this was specifically in relation to Slim laptops and it's true, Ryzen 4700u is a better solution to the intel processors for slim laptops. 

Crazy how well they have done this.

Edited by Smurf
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10 hours ago, Hywel said:

 

8 hours ago, Gangor said:

Lenovo are currently offering their Yoga Slim 7 at a smidge over £800 with a Ryzen 7 4700u processor

I know we are talking about thin laptops - so PC Specialist have a very decent one with a higher end processor

https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/FusionIV-pro-15/

It weighs about 1.0 kg.

Just putting it out there as an option - what do you think @Gangor

With a faster base speed and faster turbo speed. I know it has a higher TDP which means it needs more cooling solutions... but just an idea.

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10 minutes ago, Smurf said:

 

I know we are talking about thin laptops - so PC Specialist have a very decent one with a higher end processor

https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/FusionIV-pro-15/

It weighs about 1.0 kg.

Just putting it out there as an option - what do you think @Gangor

With a faster base speed and faster turbo speed. I know it has a higher TDP which means it needs more cooling solutions... but just an idea.

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They're two different classes of processor. The intel one uses a lot more power which will result in much worse battery life. Performance benchmarks are surprisingly pretty much neck and neck though with the i7 having the edge on single core with the Ryzen being better at multicore. For his use case I'd recommend the Ryzen all day.

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9 minutes ago, Gangor said:

They're two different classes of processor. The intel one uses a lot more power which will result in much worse battery life. Performance benchmarks are surprisingly pretty much neck and neck though with the i7 having the edge on single core with the Ryzen being better at multicore. For his use case I'd recommend the Ryzen all day.

I know they are different classes - that's the point of recommending it.

TDP doesn't necessarily mean more power... that's a misnomer.  A higher TDP will provide more in terms of performance, but can draw more electricity from the power supply unit. TDP has no measure to how much power it draws, it's a basic indicator though. And Windows powermanagement is pretty good in this regard. With a higher TDP you'll need better cooling solutions - to maximise performance.

But in general the 10750H is better. 

Plus with college work - handling large databases, large files, etc. the TDP at a lowerpoint is actually a disadvantage. 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Operates at a faster base clock speed
Less cores - but more threads available
More than double the L2+L3 Cache

Untitled.thumb.png.3c10f0aac5fa1b6843b35e4c0d40e9cf.png

 

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Link? I know the Userbenchmark reviews are generally wildly biased towards Intel, but I've not noticed bias in the actual benchmarks before. Indeed, they often contradict the reviews. 

In any case, a glance at the FM20 benchmarking thread shows that predecessors to the 9700F outperform the 3600x for FM, so presumably this will continue for the 9700F. 

I still think what I said stands - price should dictate the choice. 

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2 minutes ago, Gangor said:

Link? I know the Userbenchmark reviews are generally wildly biased towards Intel, but I've not noticed bias in the actual benchmarks before. Indeed, they often contradict the reviews. 

In any case, a glance at the FM20 benchmarking thread shows that predecessors to the 9700F outperform the 3600x for FM, so presumably this will continue for the 9700F. 

I still think what I said stands - price should dictate the choice

You can find the links yourself. I don't rely on one source of info, for example. And I try to take into account number of samples.

FM20 benchmarking thread doesn't have enough samples to be useful.

And budget dictates the choice, once it's in the users budget. Then that's the best choice. 

I'm typically on the side of Intel - but on this occassion I'm on the AMD side for this one.

To draw a line under it ----- I think  both will be more than acceptable for FM.

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1 minute ago, Smurf said:

I know they are different classes - that's the point of recommending it.

Sorry, I was highlighting the point to our less knowledgeable readers. 

1 minute ago, Smurf said:

TDP doesn't necessarily mean more power... that's a misnomer.  A higher TDP will provide more in terms of performance, but can draw more electricity from the power supply unit. TDP has no measure to how much power it draws, it's a basic indicator though. And Windows powermanagement is pretty good in this regard. With a higher TDP you'll need better cooling solutions - to maximise performance.

Yes, except since it runs at a higher base clock it will be drawing more power than a U processor at idle, or when doing normal college tasks like word processing. The battery life will absolutely be a lot worse for an H processor vs a U processor of either brand.

1 minute ago, Smurf said:

But in general the 10750H is better. 

When gaming or doing demanding tasks, yes. In all other circumstances no. In my experience college means a lot of sitting in libraries typing into a word processor or IDE. Also laptops with H processors tend to have ridiculous colours and RGB lighting which would make you look stupid in a college library.

1 minute ago, Smurf said:

Plus with college work - handling large databases, large files, etc. the TDP at a lowerpoint is actually a disadvantage. 

Not enough to outweigh the advantages.

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2 minutes ago, Gangor said:

Yes, except since it runs at a higher base clock it will be drawing more power than a U processor at idle, or when doing normal college tasks like word processing. The battery life will absolutely be a lot worse for an H processor vs a U processor of either brand.

You're hellbent on battery life. We're talking about a laptop suitable for FM.

I'm offering a better processor - regardless of your thoughts on the brands - the 10750H is better processor for FM. And in general.

2 minutes ago, Gangor said:

When gaming or doing demanding tasks, yes. In all other circumstances no. In my experience college means a lot of sitting in libraries typing into a word processor or IDE.

Do you know what course he's doing?

2 minutes ago, Gangor said:

Also laptops with H processors tend to have ridiculous colours and RGB lighting which would make you look stupid in a college library.

That's not true. Not true at all.

Gaming laptops do have this - no matter what the processor model ... not sure where you're getting that from at all?

A quick search https://www.box.co.uk/2ZC56EAABU-HP-ZBook-15v-G5_2367677.html

 

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17 hours ago, Gangor said:

AMD is superior to Intel on the current generation for both performance and battery life, so I'd definitely go with a Ryzen 4000 based laptop if you can. This also comes in a higher specification but I couldn't find one available in the UK currently and it's really not necessary for what you'll be using it for. 

Lenovo are currently offering their Yoga Slim 7 at a smidge over £800 with a Ryzen 7 4700u processor (far more powerful than the one in the Acer you're looking at) and boasting a decent screen (100% sRGB) and battery life (14 hours quoted). The main problem that I can see is that they are only offering it in purple currently.

Great suggestion! At first glance I really didn't like the look of it, but having watched a review video it's a really good looking laptop, they should probably change the website pictures. EDIT: On the education store I can grab it for £726 as well... very tempting! I had a look into the Ryzen 7 4700u processor last night and it really does appear to blow any other processors in the category out the water (i7-10510u, i5-1035g1, i7-1065G7 etc.). I've tried to find other alternatives with the same processor, but they seem few and far between in the UK right now.

An ASUS Vivobook for £750 here: https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/asus-vivobook-m431ia-14-laptop-amd-ryzen-7-512-gb-ssd-silver-10208144-pdt.html?istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istFeedId=4d7eb93e-055f-499d-8ee5-1cdcc50d67d1&istItemId=iliqwrxpr&istBid=tztx&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~1011+(PLA)+Windows+Laptops+and+Convertibles+-+Adaptive~1011+(PLA)+Windows+Laptops+And+Convertibles+ad+group~Exact&mctag=gg_goog_7904&kwid=GOOGLE&device=c&ds_kids=92700027234655884&tgtid=1011+(PLA)+Windows+Laptops+and+Convertibles+-+Adaptive&=--present--&gclid=CjwKCAjw0_T4BRBlEiwAwoEiARX5aR-xOkqex4x5PeyYHy6n-h8fMKZhxcHVPmNH8QwVHxfpbeLXFxoC9M8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

A Dell Inspiron for £700 here: https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops/new-inspiron-14-5000/spd/inspiron-14-5405-laptop/cn54503

One question I do have - is a better processor, such as the above mentioned, worth the trade off of having no dedicated GPU in my case?

9 hours ago, Smurf said:

 

I know we are talking about thin laptops - so PC Specialist have a very decent one with a higher end processor

https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/FusionIV-pro-15/

Sorry, I failed to say I'd rather not go larger than 13-14" and I really can't go above £850.

To give more context, I'll be undertaking a project in computational/quantum chemistry. This will involve running a fair few things simultaneously - putty connection to a supercomputer, python, excel, word, visualisation software such as VMD.

I do have time on my side as my current laptop is still running relatively well after 5 years, however it's getting extremely hot and the cores are constantly running at 90 celsius so isn't particularly reliable. So I can wait for price drops, new releases etc.

Most of the discussion you guys have had has gone over my head but I really appreciate it!

Edited by Hywel
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4 hours ago, Hywel said:

Sorry, I failed to say I'd rather not go larger than 13-14" and I really can't go above £850.


To give more context, I'll be undertaking a project in computational/quantum chemistry. This will involve running a fair few things simultaneously - putty connection to a supercomputer, python, excel, word, visualisation software such as VMD.

Some visualtion software have a minimum screen resolution tolerance - so with a 13-14 inch screen you might not be able to run your VS.

For this you might need Open GL - and I don't think AMD are great at this in fact I don't think they have it integrated into their CPUs at all

Intel have since their 4th gen processors (on 10th now), 

If you can get back to us on the VS and VMD you are using we'd have a better idea if it's suited or not. 

But I reckon you'll need some sort of Open GL support, so you'll be looking at Raedon 5000 in their dedicated GPU, if you decide to go that way.

But for open gl I'd being with Intel based processor and Nvidia, to be fair.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Hywel said:

Great suggestion! At first glance I really didn't like the look of it, but having watched a review video it's a really good looking laptop, they should probably change the website pictures. EDIT: On the education store I can grab it for £726 as well... very tempting! I had a look into the Ryzen 7 4700u processor last night and it really does appear to blow any other processors in the category out the water (i7-10510u, i5-1035g1, i7-1065G7 etc.). I've tried to find other alternatives with the same processor, but they seem few and far between in the UK right now.

An ASUS Vivobook for £750 here: https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/asus-vivobook-m431ia-14-laptop-amd-ryzen-7-512-gb-ssd-silver-10208144-pdt.html?istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istFeedId=4d7eb93e-055f-499d-8ee5-1cdcc50d67d1&istItemId=iliqwrxpr&istBid=tztx&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~1011+(PLA)+Windows+Laptops+and+Convertibles+-+Adaptive~1011+(PLA)+Windows+Laptops+And+Convertibles+ad+group~Exact&mctag=gg_goog_7904&kwid=GOOGLE&device=c&ds_kids=92700027234655884&tgtid=1011+(PLA)+Windows+Laptops+and+Convertibles+-+Adaptive&=--present--&gclid=CjwKCAjw0_T4BRBlEiwAwoEiARX5aR-xOkqex4x5PeyYHy6n-h8fMKZhxcHVPmNH8QwVHxfpbeLXFxoC9M8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

A Dell Inspiron for £700 here: https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops/new-inspiron-14-5000/spd/inspiron-14-5405-laptop/cn54503

I'm sure they are great laptops. One thing you give up as you look at cheaper models of laptop is the quality of the screen. I've not seen reviews for these models but as that was something you particularly mentioned I would definitely do some checking on that before buying.

5 hours ago, Hywel said:

One question I do have - is a better processor, such as the above mentioned, worth the trade off of having no dedicated GPU in my case?

 

It depends on what you're doing. For FM if you're choosing a Ryzen processor it's definitely reasonable because their integrated GPUs are not bad and should be able to run the match engine just fine. For your college work I don't think the GPU would matter much apart from maybe the virtualisation software. If there are community forums for that it might be worth asking there also. One thing I can say is that the iGPU in the Ryzen is going to be better than pretty much any laptop GPU from 5 years ago, so if your current laptop can run it this definitely can.

There is also an upside to consider when you don't have a dedicated GPU - better battery life. 

 

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So I got this (but via HP direct) https://ao.com/product/133w8eaabu-hp-laptop-black-75691-251.aspx in the end, and I've refound my love for standard FM. 

Gone are the days of taking an hour to proceed a week! (so it felt like..) Gone are the days of stuttering 3D.

Thank you to all for your advice, especially @Smurf and @Gangor for all your patience and hardwork.

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1 hour ago, Malicious Penguin said:

So I got this (but via HP direct) https://ao.com/product/133w8eaabu-hp-laptop-black-75691-251.aspx in the end, and I've refound my love for standard FM. 

Gone are the days of taking an hour to proceed a week! (so it felt like..) Gone are the days of stuttering 3D.

Thank you to all for your advice, especially @Smurf and @Gangor for all your patience and hardwork.

Nice one - thanks for the feedback! 

If you get a chance to post in the FM20 benchmark thread. 

Could be good for others looking :)

 

 

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4 hours ago, Malicious Penguin said:

@Smurf I've just downloaded the files!

seen this one you have bought on amazon for 650 mate. was going to post asking for some advice on here as have a budget of 600-700 pounds and looking for something that would load plenty of leagues and nations and handles no problem..current laptop is just about bareable for but looking at the benchmark tests of something similar to mine would be coming out at around 40 minutes for test C. yours under 10 very impressive and has me tempted.

@smurf is this as good as it gets at this price? Thanks.

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13 hours ago, mozza79 said:

seen this one you have bought on amazon for 650 mate. was going to post asking for some advice on here as have a budget of 600-700 pounds and looking for something that would load plenty of leagues and nations and handles no problem..current laptop is just about bareable for but looking at the benchmark tests of something similar to mine would be coming out at around 40 minutes for test C. yours under 10 very impressive and has me tempted.

@smurf is this as good as it gets at this price? Thanks.

I'll go blind on this one and say that I've looked just in your price range and not comparing to another find earlier in the thread.

Best I can find for graphcis and processor - hard drive a bit on the small side.
https://www.box.co.uk/NH.Q8LEK.001-Acer-Aspire-7-Gaming-A715-75G_2934861.html

 

This is a bit more expensive
https://www.box.co.uk/FX505DD-BQ121T-ASUS-TUF-FX505DD-BQ121T_2902781.html

But it has a larger hard drive.

Graphics card not as good but fine for FM.

 

I've only checked one website.

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23 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I'll go blind on this one and say that I've looked just in your price range and not comparing to another find earlier in the thread.

Best I can find for graphcis and processor - hard drive a bit on the small side.
https://www.box.co.uk/NH.Q8LEK.001-Acer-Aspire-7-Gaming-A715-75G_2934861.html

 

This is a bit more expensive
https://www.box.co.uk/FX505DD-BQ121T-ASUS-TUF-FX505DD-BQ121T_2902781.html

But it has a larger hard drive.

Graphics card not as good but fine for FM.

 

I've only checked one website.

thanks for that. 

which would you recommend over the bottom one you picked there for 650 and the one i can get that malicious penguin bought as both same price.

i am mainly looking for process speed and able to handle match engine to decent level. only use mainly for FM and small tasks so Hard drive not a big concern.

thanks again for the help. 

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Just now, mozza79 said:

thanks for that. 

which would you recommend over the bottom one you picked there for 650 and the one i can get that malicious penguin bought as both same price.

i am mainly looking for process speed and able to handle match engine to decent level. only use mainly for FM and small tasks so Hard drive not a big concern.

thanks again for the help. 

From what I see from the Ao site is that they are out of stock. 

The 3550H is bit of a step down from the 4600H.

I'd wait.

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1 minute ago, Smurf said:

From what I see from the Ao site is that they are out of stock. 

The 3550H is bit of a step down from the 4600H.

I'd wait.

it is on amazon for 650 mate.

if that is the better one i will invest. thanks.

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10 minutes ago, mozza79 said:

it is on amazon for 650 mate.

if that is the better one i will invest. thanks.

Link?

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22 hours ago, Malicious Penguin said:

@Smurf I've just downloaded the files!

Cheers for doing the test, every one really helps us get an idea of how each system performs, hopefully with enough samples recommending will be easier

@Smurf Thanks for linking to the thread

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Hi,

looking at purchasing this laptop this week

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-Pavilion-15-ec1001na-Gaming-Laptop/dp/B0877L4KMD?tag=georiot-trd-21&ascsubtag=trd-gb-8150257581319843000-21&th=1

and wondered if there was anything in the one below that would justify the extra cost involved apart from larger hard drive

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Acer-AN515-44-Gaming-Display-Windows/dp/B089BJY21X/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=UKO7O2O49HVU&dchild=1&keywords=acer%2Bnitro%2B5&qid=1595937253&s=computers&sprefix=acer%2B%2Ccomputers%2C131&sr=1-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQTlVWUlSQTRHUFQ4JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjQwODUxMUlSQ05XTU01RjBWRSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDMwOTM1MjlMRTRPMUhUVFg2QSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

I had also seen this one but someone had mentioned that they had bad thermals and ran really hot under load.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-Wide-View-GeForce-Graphics-Windows/dp/B085P2921Y/ref=pd_vtp_147_3/262-1081147-1563756?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B085P2921Y&pd_rd_r=2bfa2295-21ba-4355-980a-6b4a942e7bb6&pd_rd_w=CLHui&pd_rd_wg=aM9Fw&pf_rd_p=d9372598-6033-49ea-b94e-b8f16bc59396&pf_rd_r=Q3SXH3Q33Y509S9BRHNY&psc=1&refRID=Q3SXH3Q33Y509S9BRHNY

Again there is also this but not sure if the graphics card is as good?

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/msi-bravo-15-15-6-gaming-laptop-amd-ryzen-5-rx-5500m-256-gb-ssd-10206090-pdt.html

 

Obviously if there is a better option let me know top end of budget is £750.

Thanks again for all your help

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1 hour ago, lofty20000 said:

Hi,

looking at purchasing this laptop this week

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-Pavilion-15-ec1001na-Gaming-Laptop/dp/B0877L4KMD?tag=georiot-trd-21&ascsubtag=trd-gb-8150257581319843000-21&th=1

and wondered if there was anything in the one below that would justify the extra cost involved apart from larger hard drive

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Acer-AN515-44-Gaming-Display-Windows/dp/B089BJY21X/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=UKO7O2O49HVU&dchild=1&keywords=acer%2Bnitro%2B5&qid=1595937253&s=computers&sprefix=acer%2B%2Ccomputers%2C131&sr=1-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQTlVWUlSQTRHUFQ4JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjQwODUxMUlSQ05XTU01RjBWRSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDMwOTM1MjlMRTRPMUhUVFg2QSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

I had also seen this one but someone had mentioned that they had bad thermals and ran really hot under load.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-Wide-View-GeForce-Graphics-Windows/dp/B085P2921Y/ref=pd_vtp_147_3/262-1081147-1563756?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B085P2921Y&pd_rd_r=2bfa2295-21ba-4355-980a-6b4a942e7bb6&pd_rd_w=CLHui&pd_rd_wg=aM9Fw&pf_rd_p=d9372598-6033-49ea-b94e-b8f16bc59396&pf_rd_r=Q3SXH3Q33Y509S9BRHNY&psc=1&refRID=Q3SXH3Q33Y509S9BRHNY

Again there is also this but not sure if the graphics card is as good?

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/msi-bravo-15-15-6-gaming-laptop-amd-ryzen-5-rx-5500m-256-gb-ssd-10206090-pdt.html

 

Obviously if there is a better option let me know top end of budget is £750.

Thanks again for all your help

I'd go with your link https://www.amazon.co.uk/Acer-AN515-44-Gaming-Display-Windows/dp/B089BJY21X/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=UKO7O2O49HVU&dchild=1&keywords=acer%2Bnitro%2B5&qid=1595937253&s=computers&sprefix=acer%2B%2Ccomputers%2C131&sr=1-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQTlVWUlSQTRHUFQ4JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjQwODUxMUlSQ05XTU01RjBWRSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDMwOTM1MjlMRTRPMUhUVFg2QSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

 

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Purchased an Alienware M15 R2 a couple of weeks ago and wish I had done more research. 

Specs;

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 6GB GDDR6
RAM 16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4
Intel Core 9th Generation i7-9750H Processor (6 Core, Up to 4.50GHz, 12MB Cache, 45W)

 

FM is the only gaming I do. After about 45 minutes - 1 hour, the fans will run faster & louder and power will be drawn from the battery, as the CPU requires more power than the 240W power pack can supply. I posted this issue at the Dell/Alienware forums and apparently there's nothing that can be done about it. 

One response:

Quote

What I suspect is happening is that Intel is releasing one set of specifications to manufacturers, who design the boards around them, and by the time Intel releases that generation of CPUs, it becomes clear they need more power to hit their performance numbers.  Redesigning the power circuitry would be expensive (particularly if the masks for the board have been made and the parts ordered for the SMT lines), so the battery is called into use to balance the rest.

We've seen this before a couple of times when Intel couldn't keep up with its competitor from Sunnyvale, which has a much more power-efficient, lower die size CPU that's more than competitive not just in the desktop market, but now in the notebook market -- just not to this extreme.

And if recent news is any indication, the situation may get worse before it gets better.

I think it also explains in good measure why Apple will begin phasing out Intel CPUs this year.  If AMD can get Zen 4 out the door by year's end, Intel will be in even more serious trouble than it is now.  One time, AMD's notebooks could be used as space heaters, while Intel's barely broke a sweat.  The tables have completely turned - and it remains to be seen how reliable the noteooks are when 100 C isn't an extreme any longer -- it's common.

After one hour of playing FM, the M15 is too hot to keep on my lap & about 8-10% of the battery is drawn. Happens every time. Was looking forward to getting an Alienware but this is unacceptable. My Inspiron 15 has been pretty dependable for 7+ years, except for a busted hinge. At the rate the M15 is burning, don't see it lasting more than 2 years.

A 21 day return policy from Dell Outlet so I needed to make a decision. I requested a Return Authorization and sent the laptop back today. 

Very upset with how this has turned out and still in the market for a gaming laptop

About $1,300-1,400 US. Ryzen based since after what I experienced, Intel would be a no no.  

 

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54 minutes ago, lofty20000 said:

Hi @Smurf can i pick you brains for what it was that made the Acer above better that the HP linked below, so I can get a better understanding of what to consider in future many thanks again for all your help so far. you and the others on here do a fantastic job of helping people make informed choices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-Pavilion-15-ec1001na-Gaming-Laptop/dp/B0877L4KMD?tag=georiot-trd-21&ascsubtag=trd-gb-8150257581319843000-21&th=1

Both laptops got the same CPU, GPU and RAM but Acer got bigger SSD and much better display (brighter (300 nits)with better colours (72% NTSC) + 144hz) where HP display is not quite bright with 250 nits and just 45% NTSC.

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3 hours ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:

Purchased an Alienware M15 R2 a couple of weeks ago and wish I had done more research. 

Specs;

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 6GB GDDR6
RAM 16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4
Intel Core 9th Generation i7-9750H Processor (6 Core, Up to 4.50GHz, 12MB Cache, 45W)

 

FM is the only gaming I do. After about 45 minutes - 1 hour, the fans will run faster & louder and power will be drawn from the battery, as the CPU requires more power than the 240W power pack can supply. I posted this issue at the Dell/Alienware forums and apparently there's nothing that can be done about it. 

One response:

After one hour of playing FM, the M15 is too hot to keep on my lap & about 8-10% of the battery is drawn. Happens every time. Was looking forward to getting an Alienware but this is unacceptable. My Inspiron 15 has been pretty dependable for 7+ years, except for a busted hinge. At the rate the M15 is burning, don't see it lasting more than 2 years.

A 21 day return policy from Dell Outlet so I needed to make a decision. I requested a Return Authorization and sent the laptop back today. 

Very upset with how this has turned out and still in the market for a gaming laptop

About $1,300-1,400 US. Ryzen based since after what I experienced, Intel would be a no no.  

 

You might try undervolting your CPU. That would reduce the amount of power it uses. It would also affect performance slightly, but it sounds like it might be worth it.

Edit: Hah, should have read the whole post first. You could get something pretty decent for that price. Is portability important or will you mostly just play at home?

Edited by Gangor
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2 hours ago, lofty20000 said:

Hi @Smurf can i pick you brains for what it was that made the Acer above better that the HP linked below, so I can get a better understanding of what to consider in future many thanks again for all your help so far. you and the others on here do a fantastic job of helping people make informed choices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-Pavilion-15-ec1001na-Gaming-Laptop/dp/B0877L4KMD?tag=georiot-trd-21&ascsubtag=trd-gb-8150257581319843000-21&th=1

Almost none of the recommendations on this thread are personal, @lofty20000 The laptops you've linked will all perform very similarly since they have the same basic configuration of CPU, GPU and RAM. Details (usually) not covered in spec lists include things like how usable are the keyboard and trackpad, can you upgrade RAM or storage, how bright or colour accurate is the monitor, what is the build quality like etc. That's not to say that you have to be uninformed - the internet holds a plethora of laptop reviews if you take a few minutes to look. I find video reviews from Youtube particularly helpful as you'll get to see different angles of the device and the reviewer will likely demonstrate things like how much can the screen (or laptop itself) flex or how it feels to use the keyboard. The other benefit of Youtube is that you can get an idea of reputability from the number of subscribers.

Different laptops are likely to have different pros and cons and it's a good idea to figure out which pros are most important to you and which cons you can live with. 

Edited by Gangor
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Thanks for that @Gangor i have looked a lot online, and like you said before the ASUS TUF laptops have lots of issues with cooling, have seen reviews on the ACER which mentions fans can be noisy. and i understand that at my price point some sacrifices have to be made, but would imagine that any other them would be a massive improvement on my current laptop that is a i5 5200u with integrated graphics and 8gb of RAM, so all advice is greatly appreciated. and with regards to RAM and storage can add more down the line when funds allow, and as I only really play FM and perhaps something like broken sword. and thanks again for your help and patience.

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Just now, lofty20000 said:

Thanks for that @Gangor i have looked a lot online, and like you said before the ASUS TUF laptops have lots of issues with cooling, have seen reviews on the ACER which mentions fans can be noisy. and i understand that at my price point some sacrifices have to be made, but would imagine that any other them would be a massive improvement on my current laptop that is a i5 5200u with integrated graphics and 8gb of RAM, so all advice is greatly appreciated. and with regards to RAM and storage can add more down the line when funds allow, and as I only really play FM and perhaps something like broken sword. and thanks again for your help and patience.

Beware not all gaming laptops (especially the cheap ones) allow you to upgrade RAM or even storage.

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14 hours ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:

Purchased an Alienware M15 R2 a couple of weeks ago and wish I had done more research. 

Specs;

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 6GB GDDR6
RAM 16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4
Intel Core 9th Generation i7-9750H Processor (6 Core, Up to 4.50GHz, 12MB Cache, 45W)

 

FM is the only gaming I do. After about 45 minutes - 1 hour, the fans will run faster & louder and power will be drawn from the battery, as the CPU requires more power than the 240W power pack can supply. I posted this issue at the Dell/Alienware forums and apparently there's nothing that can be done about it. 

One response:

After one hour of playing FM, the M15 is too hot to keep on my lap & about 8-10% of the battery is drawn. Happens every time. Was looking forward to getting an Alienware but this is unacceptable. My Inspiron 15 has been pretty dependable for 7+ years, except for a busted hinge. At the rate the M15 is burning, don't see it lasting more than 2 years.

A 21 day return policy from Dell Outlet so I needed to make a decision. I requested a Return Authorization and sent the laptop back today. 

Very upset with how this has turned out and still in the market for a gaming laptop

About $1,300-1,400 US. Ryzen based since after what I experienced, Intel would be a no no.  

 

Your issue isn't with Intel it's with Dell/Alienware - it wasn't a particularly good computer build for FM.
Alienware are built as gaming laptops - as where FM is a game - it's different to other games - it's more of a database processing game. 
Other games rely heavily on good graphic cards - and the processor doesn't have to be the holy-grail.

The heat you experience is probably due to the build of the gaming laptop - giving less preference to a cooling solution for the CPU and concentrating that on the graphics card. 

The heat you experienced as you said was on your lap - and that means the fans underneath  the laptop are sucking up the dust and debris from your lap/couch/bed etc and clogging fans. 
I'd highly recommend using a laptop cooling pad - this will keep the fans up from the surface and blow cool air into them to assist.

Intel - in my honest opinion (and proved on the FM benchmark threads over the years) are better for FM than Ryzen, although Ryzen have made great strides in the last year or two.

It's up to yourself - but your build was very good - it just wasn't a good build for FM.

13 hours ago, lofty20000 said:

Hi @Smurf can i pick you brains for what it was that made the Acer above better that the HP linked below, so I can get a better understanding of what to consider in future many thanks again for all your help so far. you and the others on here do a fantastic job of helping people make informed choices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-Pavilion-15-ec1001na-Gaming-Laptop/dp/B0877L4KMD?tag=georiot-trd-21&ascsubtag=trd-gb-8150257581319843000-21&th=1

The only reason I picked the one I choose for you was it had a larger SSD drive. 

10 hours ago, lofty20000 said:

Thanks for that @Gangor i have looked a lot online, and like you said before the ASUS TUF laptops have lots of issues with cooling, have seen reviews on the ACER which mentions fans can be noisy. and i understand that at my price point some sacrifices have to be made, but would imagine that any other them would be a massive improvement on my current laptop that is a i5 5200u with integrated graphics and 8gb of RAM, so all advice is greatly appreciated. and with regards to RAM and storage can add more down the line when funds allow, and as I only really play FM and perhaps something like broken sword. and thanks again for your help and patience.

 

10 hours ago, Gangor said:

Beware not all gaming laptops (especially the cheap ones) allow you to upgrade RAM or even storage.

Typically most have access ports at the base of the laptop. It's worth checking out if it can.

Perhaps notebooks or slim laptops are built with a solid base that makes it difficult to get into.

But generally - a lot of laptops have access ports to the hard drive (SSD) and RAM. 

 

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1 hour ago, davie1987 said:

Would a laptop with the following graphics card and processor run football manager ? 

 

Graphics: Intel UHD Graphics 600

Processor: Intel Celeron N4020

It would run it but very poorly. It might be suitable to play the game via Stadia?

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1 hour ago, davie1987 said:

Or can anyone recommend a decent ish laptop for about £350 

Not brand new. Keep an eye out for a 2nd hand i5 8th gen based laptop maybe? New laptops in this price range tend to be terrible at anything but basic tasks.

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Interested on what people think this would be able to handle FM-Wise - just bought a new PC..

Intel I5 9400F 4.1GHz Six Core;
Nvidia GTX 1650 4GB SUPER; PC
Memory Upgrade Dual DDR4 : 16GB (2x8GB) 3200Mhz DDR4
Crucial BX500 240GB SSD
Seagate 1TB Barracuda Drive
I think the motherboard is a Z390

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8 hours ago, Doiggy_2007 said:

Interested on what people think this would be able to handle FM-Wise - just bought a new PC..

Intel I5 9400F 4.1GHz Six Core;
Nvidia GTX 1650 4GB SUPER; PC
Memory Upgrade Dual DDR4 : 16GB (2x8GB) 3200Mhz DDR4
Crucial BX500 240GB SSD
Seagate 1TB Barracuda Drive
I think the motherboard is a Z390

It will run FM very well. As a note, the 9400F is a locked CPU, so having a Z390 motherboard (the purpose of which is overclocking) is pointless. You may as well have a B360 and save a few £

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43 minutes ago, Gangor said:

It will run FM very well. As a note, the 9400F is a locked CPU, so having a Z390 motherboard (the purpose of which is overclocking) is pointless. You may as well have a B360 and save a few £

Thanks Gangor - appreciate it! 3D match engine should run fine on that shouldn’t it?

Wasnt really my choice, PC is being built by AWD-IT and they said the motherboard that was in as standard (H310M I think) wouldn’t support the RAM I’d chosen, so they gave me a free upgrade!

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5 hours ago, Doiggy_2007 said:

Thanks Gangor - appreciate it! 3D match engine should run fine on that shouldn’t it?

Wasnt really my choice, PC is being built by AWD-IT and they said the motherboard that was in as standard (H310M I think) wouldn’t support the RAM I’d chosen, so they gave me a free upgrade!

The 9400F means that it requires (F) an discrete graphics card as there is no gpu built into the CPU. 

But you have a good dedicated graphics card so this isn't a problem.

The Turbo boost is 4.1ghz and you'll get that in a single core boost - which is good for FM.

Turbo boosting to all cores will yield a speed of about 3.9ghz.

But this can be bypassed if you look up how to do this - it can be done, so you get a turbo boost of 4.1ghz on all cores. 

I'd highly recommend not doing this - but it can be done - and the extra speed won't be noticeable. 

 

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