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Bigpole

Question to (SI) people responsible for Pre-game editor

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I hope they will become more loyal to their content in the time they make unnecessary YouTube videos.

There's a typo on the panel or there's a phrase you need to leave behind.Users solve the bug, play the game,I really want them to wake up.

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I really hope they fix whatever is making the editor's job harder.

Football is so global now, and with the rise of social media and new communications you broaden your horizons so much about the game. I want to play in Africa, Asia, Central America and such to see how it feels like, and I need claassen for that!

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6 horas atrás, Bigpole disse:

...

I share the same thoughts as you. I am the editor of a Brazilian update, the best known for users in Brazil, and since it was not enough that we were faced with the licensing of clubs and competitions, and not selling the game in our country, now it has made our work in the editor difficult .


I have never had so many problems, as much headache as I am now having to solve all the errors that are coming up and, however much I post them all (which I have already done), I will hardly have an answer from SI.


And I fully agree: It was time to release a guide, a manual explaining each editor's details in detail, even to encourage new editors.


Finally, my project is stopped at the moment, because an error has appeared that is impossible to identify, since, in this version, the error messages are not specific, as in the previous versions and, so far, they have not given me a solution, nor have fixed the various bugs that the publisher has this year.

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9 hours ago, Bigpole said:

I just want to ask few questions to people who make this editor (which is horrid this year unfortunately)

1. DO YOU EVEN LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY?

How many features ACTUALLY WANTED by community was implemented? If editor is unpopular, why hundreds of people WAITING TO PLAY specific addons (I'm talking about @claassen and @Dan BHTFC mainly). They spent massive amount of time in editor and because of bugs they have problems with releasing their projects.

 

2. Is editor actually tested before releasing? 

 

3. Is there possibility on release day (or patch day) to give us a list with NEW FEATURES to the editor and FIXED BUGS?

 

4. Who is responsible for editor that is actually helpful? I'm lurking in editors hideaway for a few years and HAVEN'T SEEN a SI employee on this forum. I see mods like @KUBI but I bet he's not oracle and doesn't have the full knowledge. There's official topic monitored by SI people and guess what - they respond if there's something problematic. 

 

5. Why won't SI give the people some manual for editor? I saw few 'official' guides and they are ridiculous because almost everyone can activate a league, CREATE A PLAYER or CREATE A TEAM. Why no advanced rules tutorials like playoff tutorial (prom/releg) that include different competitions. Why no tutorial about what are the STAGES, what is HIDDEN STAGE, how to properly set up FATES? The transition between basic rules and advanced rules is too big and intimidating for 80-90% of the people using the editor. In editor in about column there's: To find out more about editing, please visit Editors Hideaway. Yeah but what for? To ask a question that will not be replied because we're not familiar with editor? Yeah, right.

 

My enjoyment is dropping every year because of activity here (or rather lack of it). If you give us a powerful tool to create our own mods (which is supercool because you can actually modify certain aspects of the game) give us the knowledge or the people with knowledge. If somebody sees that creating leagues and 'tailoring' to their own needs will be an easy job - they will try do it and 'spread the word' and make the game more popular (because you can recreate some minor league with 100% accuracy).

I'm here to discuss so I hope that there will be some response.

I totally agree with you at 110%.

I would also someone with knowledge from SI help out people at Simple Questions Thread.

Also like to ask Kubi small suggestion thread to Editors Hideaway. A permanent and pinned Editors Wishlist Thread. The Most Wanted Editor feature thread was brilliant and I think should be permanent. If it is not up to you Kubi, may pass along this small request for this part of the forums.

Edit: I also waiting for editor fixes, for my personal edits. I have this interesting idea for fantasy leagues and its size makes me reluctant to do it on the editor. There should be more of community and SI close interactions. Future changes to FMF files should be considered has a lot people move their databases files from one version to the next.

 

Edited by grade

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There is a whole feature request forum and personally I think it would be better to post all feature requests for both, in-game and pre-game editor there, with a editor tag. 

It's usually better to have one idea/one thread instead of one thread that becomes difficult and time consuming to read after a while. 

https://community.sigames.com/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests

 

 

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

There is a whole feature request forum and personally I think it would be better to post all feature requests for both, in-game and pre-game editor there, with a editor tag. 

It's usually better to have one idea/one thread instead of one thread that becomes difficult and time consuming to read after a while. 

https://community.sigames.com/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests

 

 

I will do that in the future. :)

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I think some of you overestimate the resources they have for coding the editor. There is no editor department at SI. 

But maybe they will invest some more time and resources for the next release with the feedback that comes from the community.

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Let's hope so. I have to say though when seeing the many changes SI made on FM19 I was not surprised the editor got less attention.

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10 hours ago, Bigpole said:

I just want to ask few questions to people who make this editor (which is horrid this year unfortunately)

1. DO YOU EVEN LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY?

How many features ACTUALLY WANTED by community was implemented? If editor is unpopular, why hundreds of people WAITING TO PLAY specific addons (I'm talking about @claassen and @Dan BHTFC mainly). They spent massive amount of time in editor and because of bugs they have problems with releasing their projects.

 

2. Is editor actually tested before releasing? 

 

3. Is there possibility on release day (or patch day) to give us a list with NEW FEATURES to the editor and FIXED BUGS?

 

4. Who is responsible for editor that is actually helpful? I'm lurking in editors hideaway for a few years and HAVEN'T SEEN a SI employee on this forum. I see mods like @KUBI but I bet he's not oracle and doesn't have the full knowledge. There's official topic monitored by SI people and guess what - they respond if there's something problematic. 

 

5. Why won't SI give the people some manual for editor? I saw few 'official' guides and they are ridiculous because almost everyone can activate a league, CREATE A PLAYER or CREATE A TEAM. Why no advanced rules tutorials like playoff tutorial (prom/releg) that include different competitions. Why no tutorial about what are the STAGES, what is HIDDEN STAGE, how to properly set up FATES? The transition between basic rules and advanced rules is too big and intimidating for 80-90% of the people using the editor. In editor in about column there's: To find out more about editing, please visit Editors Hideaway. Yeah but what for? To ask a question that will not be replied because we're not familiar with editor? Yeah, right.

 

My enjoyment is dropping every year because of activity here (or rather lack of it). If you give us a powerful tool to create our own mods (which is supercool because you can actually modify certain aspects of the game) give us the knowledge or the people with knowledge. If somebody sees that creating leagues and 'tailoring' to their own needs will be an easy job - they will try do it and 'spread the word' and make the game more popular (because you can recreate some minor league with 100% accuracy).

I'm here to discuss so I hope that there will be some response.

Asked something similar years ago mate

Good luck with it hope you get some joy

SI response was as usual it's why many of us who did a lot here just walked away and long term editors all realize now thre is no point until the new year too buggy and when the update comes it can bugger files made earlier in the editor

On the point SI do not have the coders a certain ige is run by 1 man his product can do 79 more things than the official one that says it all

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Editor have low priority so dont bother and waste your time. Lack of time is crucial here - game like fm should be released every 2 yearsbif you want to have 2-4 months for bug solving and enough time for preparation for next version. 

Now we have only 8-10 months to play the game- with some big bugs or without.

In this chaos (lack of staff and time) you really expect some serious progress related to editor?

They dont have enough time to make tutorial or to solve some 5 years old bugs. And its not their fault. They are simply too busy. 

End of story.

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2 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

Editor have low priority so dont bother and waste your time. Lack of time is crucial here - game like fm should be released every 2 yearsbif you want to have 2-4 months for bug solving and enough time for preparation for next version. 

Now we have only 8-10 months to play the game- with some big bugs or without.

In this chaos (lack of staff and time) you really expect some serious progress related to editor?

They dont have enough time to make tutorial or to solve some 5 years old bugs. And its not their fault. They are simply too busy. 

End of story.

correct its not the staff's fault who are working on this totally agree, but surely they can resolve some of these issues if not man up and say it cant be addressed as year in year out I buy a product hoping bugs will be resolved and they are still there there should be clear feedback we both know we have given up reporting some bugs there is no point

 it is SI's approach that is wrong we have tried engaging with them for years and been mostly ignored or poorly treated(once again not having a go at the staff working on the bugs here etc)

The bottom line is they have no competition with the game/pre game editor and can do what they like, releasing a product that isnt fully patched until 4 months later is ok occasionally and there always will be bugs

 but this the accepted norm now and that simply isnt good enough, hows about making it a 2 year release or at least skipping a year to iron out the bugs add requested features the community want rather than superfluous changes which just appears as tokenism and putting out a comprehensive guide for use with both editors 

Edited by kingrobbo

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2 hours ago, kingrobbo said:

correct its not the staff's fault who are working on this totally agree, but surely they can resolve some of these issues if not man up and say it cant be addressed as year in year out I buy a product hoping bugs will be resolved and they are still there there should be clear feedback we both know we have given up reporting some bugs there is no point

 it is SI's approach that is wrong we have tried engaging with them for years and been mostly ignored or poorly treated(once again not having a go at the staff working on the bugs here etc)

The bottom line is they have no competition with the game/pre game editor and can do what they like, releasing a product that isnt fully patched until 4 months later is ok occasionally and there always will be bugs

 but this the accepted norm now and that simply isnt good enough, hows about making it a 2 year release or at least skipping a year to iron out the bugs add requested features the community want rather than superfluous changes which just appears as tokenism and putting out a comprehensive guide for use with both editors 

:D

 

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I loved Football Manager because of the editor and being able to create custom leagues and editing the database. I have been buying it every year since Championship Manager. FM 2016 was my last purchase because of the obvious lack of care by SI to its editing community. They used to care back in the day, but not anymore. We do not represent the masses that bring in the big money. Should be obvious to everyone by now. My only hope now is that a competitor will make something decent and make it customizable. I hope I am wrong, and one of these releases, SI will give the editor community some love, but I don't think I am wrong here.

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This is really make me wonder why do even bother with the latest versions on release. I'm officially going to move to March schedule. Meaning I will buy future FMs in March after the final patch is release.

Going back to FM18.

Edited by grade

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The game itself is already very good and stable. I guess the editor needs one patch that fixes the most annoying bugs, like random error messages.

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Why the FM18 editor and previous was perfect and work very well while the FM19 editor is really bad with all these errors ?

It's the same base, they did not change the editor considerably, I don't understand ..

And unfortunately, I'm not sure they fix the editor because they don't respond to any bugs message or almost .. For them, everything must be normal or it"s us who don't know how to use it.
But since the time, I have some experience of the advanced editor and these fonctions but with the FM19 editor, I break my head ..

Edited by claassen

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1 hour ago, KUBI said:

The game itself is already very good and stable. I guess the editor needs one patch that fixes the most annoying bugs, like random error messages.

If the editor was on the top of the priority list and it was that easy of a fix, they would have release it by now. But the editor isn't a priority and to be fair sometimes I get the feeling that at times it is a nuisance. These "fixes" shouldn't be needed in the first place. But we are in age of good enough seems to be the norm. The FMF changes that makes former versions to be undetected by 19 Editor, making us going through a process that wasn't need because the new file system would make our lives easier. And if I could fix them... well, I can't... because the failed changes list doesn't show up and it is incredibly hard to understand it. Makes me incredible frustrated and it makes me incredibly angry with the prospect if I have to redo my entire database from scratch. I'm at a point that SI doesn't have a meaningful consideration of making the editor more easy to use and robust, but do have time to put pointless features like the cr*p of Brexit and VAR. How about freaking Manual? Don't have the time? Get a freaking Intern to do it. Actually, why don't put your freaking youtube channel to good use and release a few tips and tricks not only for the editor, but to the actual FM and FMT? Again get an intern to do it or invite some youtubers to do it.

For Lucas' sake, don't get me started on FMT editor or lack of it

PS: I'm very, very easy going, patient, and quite nice. I'm also sympathetic person of the hard work put on the game, since I have masters degree in Computer Science. But I really get angry, when SI said they have consideration for us and yet, we see little progress to the editor or any sort of help from SI part. Sorry Kubi, your a moderator and do quite great job, for little information that you have. But trying what certain things do in the editor, is not the best way to tell what that certain things actually do. Is it hard to say "it does this". Instead of checking your twitter or facebook feed, write that thing on the forum what that certain thing actually does. It would be nice if someone from SI would help some people out in these forums. It says so on the editor. It is starting to really to annoying me (not to cuss) this huge gap between us and SI personnel. SI is slowly becoming an EA type of developer, that infuriates me to no end to the point I'm considering if I want to be bothered with FM all together or not.

"Soon" and "in the future" and whatever it is said here is getting on my nerves. How about a freaking apologise for a change? Or how about answering peoples question about the editor for a change?

Sorry for the rant. :) I really, really needed to get this out of me.

Edited by grade

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3 hours ago, grade said:

This is really make me wonder why do even bother with the latest versions on release. I'm officially going to move to March schedule. Meaning I will buy future FMs in March after the final patch is release.

Going back to FM18.

This is what i want to explain to all FM players. We should play FM from March to March but if we want to use editor without bugs - we must be active now.

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3 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

This is what i want to explain to all FM players. We should play FM from March to March but if we want to use editor without bugs - we must be active now.

Still continue to plan to move to FM19. But not until they actually and properly fix it.

I spent way too many hours on my edits, that I will not waste more time to re-created them to FM19 from scratch. Which makes this frustrating. As you said, I'm moving to March to March schedule.

Edited by grade

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I updated my own league file with the FM 2019 editor. When I test it in the editor, it gives me some random error messages. But it works well in the game. 

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I would be thanking SI . They are under no obligation to even let the public have an editor as powerful as this is.  Can't remember exactly but it was introduced in FM10 and advanced editor in FM14 ... I love it and even though this one has some bugs due to new features I'm sure they will sort it .

SO JUST BE THANKFUL 

Edited by prot651

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4 minutos atrás, KUBI disse:

I updated my own league file with the FM 2019 editor. When I test it in the editor, it gives me some random error messages. But it works fine in the game. 

But only a division? Because until version 18, despite one or another error message in the editor, the competitions ran 100%. Now it is different for those who edit an update with several divisions and sub-divisions: It is mandatory to test in the editor for the file to be recognized inside the game.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb adriano roberto:

But only a division? Because until version 18, despite one or another error message in the editor, the competitions ran 100%. Now it is different for those who edit an update with several divisions and sub-divisions: It is mandatory to test in the editor for the file to be recognized inside the game.

My db has 5 divisions and I can load it into the game without verification.

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12 minutos atrás, KUBI disse:

My db has 5 divisions and I can load it into the game without verification.

But a db with divisions, several sub-divisions and Cups is already much more complicated, as is my case.
At the moment, I'm stuck in this message: "upper comp should be current or have stages".
It could be more specific and show what competition this is, since they all have stages

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8 hours ago, KUBI said:

I updated my own league file with the FM 2019 editor. When I test it in the editor, it gives me some random error messages. But it works well in the game. 

i dont use verification for 5-6 years now. Game test is only realiable. Verification is here only to help new editors to learn on their own mistakes.

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How do you load it in the game without verificate it?

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36 minutes ago, rimisark said:

How do you load it in the game without verificate it?

I delete basic editor part from my files. Its totaly useless when you use advanced editor files and in past i had some issues caused by that basic editor part - i dont know why or how but i noticed some problems are gone without this.

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4 minutos atrás, krlenjushka disse:

I delete basic editor part from my files. Its totaly useless when you use advanced editor files and in past i had some issues caused by that basic editor part - i dont know why or how but i noticed some problems are gone without this.

How did you erase the basic part of your file? Explain better.

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4 minutes ago, adriano roberto said:

How did you erase the basic part of your file? Explain better.

Export file uncompressed (as i see there is no more compressed file?? . SI changed this) as xml. Use some text editor (notepad ++ for windows) and edit this file.

delete "rule group" part:

from this line: <record id="rule_group">

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20181111145639.thumb.png.f6d7b8a84bda99d1e0ac8b837509586c.png

 

to belonging closing "record" line:

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20181111145656.thumb.png.1c6f1e25b19a573827fd4b06ebca4393.png

 

save your file and thats it.

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I think if you once exported the db as xml you don't need verification anymore to load the file into the game.

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6 hours ago, adriano roberto said:

How did you erase the basic part of your file? Explain better.please

corrected it for you I am sure it was an oversight on your part 

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11 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

i dont use verification for 5-6 years now. Game test is only realiable. Verification is here only to help new editors to learn on their own mistakes.

yes it is still unreliable issues can still pop up in game even with a verified file

so the best thing is to holiday for a few years I usually do 3 full seasons bugs usually show by then

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2 hours ago, KUBI said:

I think if you once exported the db as xml you don't need verification anymore to load the file into the game.

yes the .xml files will load non  verified 

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10 horas atrás, krlenjushka disse:

Export file uncompressed (as i see there is no more compressed file?? . SI changed this) as xml. Use some text editor (notepad ++ for windows) and edit this file.

delete "rule group" part:

from this line: <record id="rule_group">

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20181111145639.thumb.png.f6d7b8a84bda99d1e0ac8b837509586c.png

 

to belonging closing "record" line:

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20181111145656.thumb.png.1c6f1e25b19a573827fd4b06ebca4393.png

 

save your file and thats it.

Thank you, friend, I'll test this here.

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