FM19: Ajax Amsterdam - Time to reap what has been sown

[Raymond85]

2 minuti fa, Rooks ha scritto:

I have Eiting playing as a BPD in cup matches. Thinking of switching to a 3-back if I want to introduce it into my first team. 

The thing i love about Ajax in this game, is that they are so flexible,,,,, you can finish up completely different by just making these little choices

[Brian]

De Toekomst is set. 

@Raymond85 Thats why I always pick Ajax for a save in FM and sticking to that for the longest. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Brian

[Brian]

Last season we lost 7 games in total, now at the start of October we lost 5 times already...  Time to rethink the tactic again and start watching on Full Match again. 

[zlatanera]

I'm just going to put everything in spoilers for this cause its an image-heavy breakdown of some of the youth I intend to focus on

 

 

 

Onana had 5 Determination on my last save so I'm very pleased to see that he's 12 Balanced, as that can be easily improved just through squad influence if he mixes in ok, and also has high natural fitness (something our academy seems to be appalling for on all three of my saves).

A couple of loans on my last save had Bakboord legimately looking better than Wöber, I don't know if he'll make it again but I'd certainly like to try. Despite his height I still see him as a CB rather than a RB.

Schuurs sucks. Yet again. One for a future save I think. 10 Natural Fitness, 3 Determination and wasted attributes on Long Shots and Composure with poor Anticipation, Concentration and Marking (I've seen him start out with 15+ on each). I'll try to develop him but I'm not optimistic, he'll go straight into the first team for mentoring though.

I'm planning on using another iteration of my Jardim tactic, and Ekkelenkamp is going to back up Donny van de Beek as our CM goal threat. There's nothing especially wrong with this one, which is good.

I've really got to make more of Jensen this time around, he's already wanted by Benfica, is reasonably intelligent for his level with a lot of room for improvement and has a great trait that I have found is one of the harder ones to train.

Okay I've got to do something with Kaj before he turns out to be a flash in the pan in real life, with that high NF, decent personality and Poacher's skillset we should be able to do something.

I think on FM18 Daan Reiziger (any idea if he is a relation?) was a better prospect but El Maach is pretty much ideal for a youth goalkeeper - not spectacular at anything, not extraordinarily deficient in any area so can be moulded how you like. For me that probably means training "Goalkeeper - Defend" to get his core attributes up as that Passing and Rushing Out will do if necessary. I might see if I can train him to throw the ball for counters too as he's strong and has Vision.

Bakker has never come good for me the past three years, I'm hoping this time is the charm. He's got a decent personality which should help, and I'm thinking I'll promote him rather than overpay for Kik Pierie (not that I won't go for him, just that I won't break the bank like I have previously, I'll let him have a couple of years at Heerenveen).

Another I want to do more with, Dest is quite two-footed and with that versatility should be able to get games. I still see him as a long-term full back purely as I want decent finishing in my wide attackers and its one of his lowest attributes. Jurrien Timber has low natural fitness otherwise he'd be more of a threat to Dest's chances. 

I'd never taken notice of Van Gelderen but the AI developed him quite well on my River Plate save and now I want more out of him. He's probably going to leapfrog Schuurs tbh, and I'd love to see him using that Finishing to get even more opportunities off Corners than a CB normally would.

@Raymond85 at least his personality is slightly better than your one! In all seriousness though there's no way I'm not pouring all my resources into getting this guy to the top. I might see if I can mentor him from guys with better personalities in his age group before bringing him up to the first team just because he'll get so much more training in the u19s, which is more important than games before age 18. 

A weird one, even with a lot of training I could see Brobbey's movement holding him back in the long term, but I'm also intrigued to see how he'd play if I gave him that "does not move into channels" trait (I think it has at alternate points been called static target man or penalty box player) without changing anything else about our tactics.

Is it possible to call someone "the next Carel Eiting" before Carel Eiting has even become a first-team regular? Certainly, for how I usually end up using Eiting as an option rotating in at CM, DM and CB, Taylor looks like the next one up. 

 

 

To anyone who read all of this...sorry!

Edited April 8, 2019 by zlatanera

[Raymond85]

6 minuti fa, zlatanera ha scritto:

@Raymond85 at least his personality is slightly better than your one!

I got him up to 5 btw 

If you want any future screens, just ask. I'm one year and a half ahead of you, and almost all your choices developed very nicely. Only one i offed is Bakboord, not up to standard on my save. And sierhuis is already at groningen 2 years with option to buy. Plus we lost Bakker to PSG as you know

[zlatanera]

7 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

I got him up to 5 btw 

If you want any future screens, just ask. I'm one year and a half ahead of you, and almost all your choices developed very nicely. Only one i offed is Bakboord, not up to standard on my save. And sierhuis is already at groningen 2 years with option to buy. Plus we lost Bakker to PSG as you know

Success!

Na as I mentioned I had a three season one, so I've already seen how they can turn out. Bakboord was surprising yeah, just came out of nowhere but Peter Bosz was back at Vitesse and they always gave me a tough game and got top 5, he seemed to be good at developing players as Buitink came on nicely too. Is Sierhuis your doing, or is that deal he's on at the start? 

Edited April 8, 2019 by zlatanera

[Raymond85]

2 minuti fa, zlatanera ha scritto:

Success!

Na as I mentioned I had a three season one, so I've already seen how they can turn out. Bakboord was surprising yeah, just came out of nowhere but Peter Bosz was back at Vitesse and they always gave me a tough game and got top 5, he seemed to be good at developing players as Buitink came on nicely too. Is Sierhuis your doing, or is that deal he's on at the start? 

It's the deal from the start. But io doubt they'll be pumping 4-5 mln into me, so i might give him a chance and sell Janssen (or Dolberg if someone comes with 100 mln)

[Raymond85]

24 minuti fa, zlatanera ha scritto:

I've really got to make more of Jensen this time around, he's already wanted by Benfica, is reasonably intelligent for his level with a lot of room for improvement and has a great trait that I have found is one of the harder ones to train.

 

[zlatanera]

After a lot of deliberation about which youngsters to promote, this is how I'll line up:

Huntelaar is the least mobile player I've used for this tactic so he gets a simple Poacher role up top, and to compensate a Support duty is added in the wide positions. We have so many playmakers and no real defensive midfielders so the DM is a playmaker, as is Frenkie because what sort of an idiot wouldn't want him running the show? The Winger role should function similar to how Memphis did for Lyon, cutting in later than you might get with an Inside Forward. I'm interested to see how Ziyech and Neres interpret it differently, likewise with Tadic and Cerny on the left. Eiting will move forward to the RPM role long-term but for now he's probably our best option at DM. We have no senior LBs to back up Tagliafico, but had 3 in the u19s so we'll see if Bakker can handle the step up!

When they return from injury Dolberg will step in for Sierhuis, probably as an Advanced Forward as he can dribble, I'll hopefully offload Labyad (he's only playing to keep his value up) and move Eiting and Schuurs forward so Veltman can be 2nd DCR, I doubt Sinkgraven will make it, and Bandé will fight it out with Cerny to be Tadic's backup.

[Brian]

@zlatanera Are the 2 playmaker roles in your formation working well? I tend to move away from 2 playmakers as they both absorb every ball. Huntelaar should do the job. He scored 35 goals for me last season and is now 9 goals in 9 games. Although I use him for the Eredivisie only this season as he can't play 2/3 matches per week, so Dolberg is my first striker in Europe. 

[zlatanera]

6 minutes ago, Rooks said:

@zlatanera Are the 2 playmaker roles in your formation working well? I tend to move away from 2 playmakers as they both absorb every ball. Huntelaar should do the job. He scored 35 goals for me last season and is now 9 goals in 9 games. Although I use him for the Eredivisie only this season as he can't play 2/3 matches per week, so Dolberg is my first striker in Europe. 

No idea, I haven't even hit continue yet. But I've had great success with this tactic in previous FMs:

Using Ajax and Real Sociedad primarily, so a step below his Messi-Iniesta-Busquets triad. I think if you had two playmakers next so each other, both on the same duty, it would be actual "Tiki-Taka" rather than nice football. But in that case its AP-At as the risk-taker and DLP-Su as the metronomic presence, in mine it'll be RPM as the risk-taker (helped by Frenkie's traits) and the DLP-De more as an out-ball for attacks that break down than anything.

Still, it could all backfire spectacularly.

[Raymond85]

What i love about this, is 3 completely different approaches. My playmakers were Ziyech and Frenkie, and tadic was in midfield. Blind as a DM because i hate slow centerbacks, but i love him in a holding role. Kristensen, Neres and Dolberg were my star starters from the beginning, and Mazraoui hasn't developed or delivered as promised and is spending the second season after part of the first one out on loan,

Schone saw hardly any action and Tadic was my backup for Frenkie, as i loved his vision, only moving late on wings, and sold for good money before he ever started.

Ps. i just sold Schone for a couple mln and got just over 5 for Veltman that was getting mad at me rejecting bids

Edited April 8, 2019 by Raymond85

[Brian]

Always love when this happens. 

[Raymond85]

Proud of our young lads

[zlatanera]

It's really hard to decide which youngsters I'm going to keep...I spent hours last night setting players into XIs for the B team and u19s, putting the ones I definitely want to keep on the bench for those teams and leaving the rest off them (I figure when a player is unavailable first the manager will look to the bench first?). Particularly all the very young attackers in the u19s. 

[Brian]

56 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

It's really hard to decide which youngsters I'm going to keep...I spent hours last night setting players into XIs for the B team and u19s, putting the ones I definitely want to keep on the bench for those teams and leaving the rest off them (I figure when a player is unavailable first the manager will look to the bench first?). Particularly all the very young attackers in the u19s. 

I have the same problem. My approach now is the most promising youngsters play and the rest I keep training and hopefully ship on loan to clubs. 

[zlatanera]

24 minutes ago, Rooks said:

I have the same problem. My approach now is the most promising youngsters play and the rest I keep training and hopefully ship on loan to clubs. 

That’s how I normally do it but I end up with great amounts of squad bloating by 3 seasons in. One thing about no first window budgets though is I have to wait 6 months to Chuck anyone, so I can see if my coaches’ opinions change significantly on any of them. I think there are only three people I didn’t give pro terms for - whichever one of the Timbers is the DM, Ventichio Sint and Jaymilio Pinas. The latter two have good potential but significantly lack in 2/3 of the attribute columns

[Raymond85]

2 ore fa, zlatanera ha scritto:

That’s how I normally do it but I end up with great amounts of squad bloating by 3 seasons in. One thing about no first window budgets though is I have to wait 6 months to Chuck anyone, so I can see if my coaches’ opinions change significantly on any of them. I think there are only three people I didn’t give pro terms for - whichever one of the Timbers is the DM, Ventichio Sint and Jaymilio Pinas. The latter two have good potential but significantly lack in 2/3 of the attribute columns

I have both the timbers in under 19 with Sint, and Pinas is pants in my game.

I've paused my save, i took up a tactical project that could be a disaster lol

[zlatanera]

18 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

I have both the timbers in under 19 with Sint, and Pinas is pants in my game.

I've paused my save, i took up a tactical project that could be a disaster lol

Yeah they’re both still there, haven’t got rid of anyone yet, but only the right back one is going places 

[KlaaZ]

On 08/04/2019 at 20:50, Raymond85 said:

I got him up to 5 btw 

If you want any future screens, just ask. I'm one year and a half ahead of you, and almost all your choices developed very nicely. Only one i offed is Bakboord, not up to standard on my save. And sierhuis is already at groningen 2 years with option to buy. Plus we lost Bakker to PSG as you know

On the future screens note, I can supply them as well (currently in 2026 I think, would have to boot up my save to make sure). Schuurs, Gravenberch and Dolberg are still at my team, pretty much everyone else has moved on by now. Dolberg is barely playing because I have two world class regens and an upcoming youngster blocking him but I'm trying to keep him happy as he's a big fan favourite still.

[zlatanera]

1 hour ago, KlaaZ said:

On the future screens note, I can supply them as well (currently in 2026 I think, would have to boot up my save to make sure). Schuurs, Gravenberch and Dolberg are still at my team, pretty much everyone else has moved on by now. Dolberg is barely playing because I have two world class regens and an upcoming youngster blocking him but I'm trying to keep him happy as he's a big fan favourite still.

Don’t suppose you could do before and after? That’s the reason I did my big screenshot post. 

I doubt you do, but I’d still be interested in seeing all 3 of them (Curious to see if Dolberg’s mentals are much better given he’d be 28 I think?). 

Also Mazroui, Victor Jensen and Nicolas Kuhn

[zlatanera]

SI, Cleon, Rashidi et. al - "mentoring is a gradual process, unlike tutoring you shouldn't expect to see immediate results".

FM, 24 in-game hours after de Ligt is placed in a mentoring group with Blind:

[zlatanera]

The new "It's just a pre-season friendly lads, nothing to worry about" team talk working well!

...we did lose Tadic to a 5 month hip injury. 3 months with a specialist, hopefully. Not ideal, whereas in previous versions of my Jardim style I've either used a) playmakers as wide playmakers (Mata, Havertz with Man Utd, Fekir with Lyon) or b) inside forwards as wide playmakers (Sancho at Dortmund, Traoré at Lyon) this time I'd moved the playmaker roles to midfield and was looking forward to see how playmaker as wrong-footed winger (Ziyech on the right) and playmaker as wrong-footed inside forward (left-footed at AML but playing IF) (Tadic on the left) would work out. 

I may use this as an opportunity to keep Sierhuis around the team for longer than the last couple of times, and stick Dolberg out wide when he returns. 

[Cleon]

5 hours ago, zlatanera said:

SI, Cleon, Rashidi et. al - "mentoring is a gradual process, unlike tutoring you shouldn't expect to see immediate results".

FM, 24 in-game hours after de Ligt is placed in a mentoring group with Blind:

Nothing has actually changed though. It doesn't work after 24 hours.

[Raymond85]

2 ore fa, Cleon ha scritto:

Nothing has actually changed though. It doesn't work after 24 hours.

To be fair, the screen does say that the mentoring group had a positive effect, and De Ligt starts the game with 16 determination (and don’t remember if his personality was light-hearted actually or spirited)

you suppose it would have still happened without having him in the group? I’d love to get more details and info on this subject

[Cleon]

33 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

To be fair, the screen does say that the mentoring group had a positive effect, and De Ligt starts the game with 16 determination (and don’t remember if his personality was light-hearted actually or spirited)

you suppose it would have still happened without having him in the group? I’d love to get more details and info on this subject

When I said nothing changed I meant from mentoring from one day. The change would have still happened and the factor is from elsewhere. That's just wording, it just lets you know if mentoring is working or not on all updates like that. The actual change won't be from that. His determination likely rose from his social group/club hierarchy or team personality. It 100% isn't from mentoring for 1 day.

You'd like more details on mentoring etc? I covered it in detail here 

 

[zlatanera]

@Cleon @Raymond85 I maybe should have stuck an emoji in there to say I was mostly being insincere. I just found it funny because I re-read the mentoring guide before assigning those groups and then it happened so fast. 

He’s in a social group with Lasse Schöne (15 Det Model Citizen) and was mentored with Blind (17 Det Model Citizen). Both are team leaders. Whilst the determination rise suggests more of a Blind influence, hence the feedback, I would happily go along with the idea that it’s mostly from having a Team Leader in his position rather than mentoring, and the dialogue came out like that due to  the fact that the influencer had been placed in a mentoring group with him before I got the message. Obviously I don’t know 100% how the game works to generate those messages. 

I have two-weekly autosaves so could go check by not mentoring him then going to the same date and seeing if he still gets the improvement, but this would be getting too much into the mechanics of this, which after all is why Tutoring was done away with, a decision that I thought made perfect sense, so I’m not sure if I’ll bother. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by zlatanera
Spelling and grammar.

[Raymond85]

1 ora fa, Cleon ha scritto:

When I said nothing changed I meant from mentoring from one day. The change would have still happened and the factor is from elsewhere. That's just wording, it just lets you know if mentoring is working or not on all updates like that. The actual change won't be from that. His determination likely rose from his social group/club hierarchy or team personality. It 100% isn't from mentoring for 1 day.

You'd like more details on mentoring etc? I covered it in detail here 

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Yeah, i read it and use it as a bible, but anything useful about feedback is so much helpful, to get to know what's happening under the hood. Because i notice that feedback usually happens when determination starts rising, and when there is a personality switch. So i thought it could be in correlation.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Raymond85

[zlatanera]

On 05/04/2019 at 22:46, Raymond85 said:

PS i choose the starting 11 for both B team and U19, so that the managers play them, with my tactics. It helps even more on their development for the first squad.

Jong Ajax came 2nd to an unstoppable Twente last season, and by only 5 points

Did you not find that your B team manager still picks players even though they're in the u19s squad and in the u19s starting 11? I set Brian Brobbey as the loan striker in my u19 team yet he's already got a sub appearance for the B team in August

[Raymond85]

2 minuti fa, zlatanera ha scritto:

Did you not find that your B team manager still picks players even though they're in the u19s squad and in the u19s starting 11? I set Brian Brobbey as the loan striker in my u19 team yet he's already got a sub appearance for the B team in August

yeah, that happens, but i actually have no problems with this. I have been doing that for many years now

[zlatanera]

39 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

yeah, that happens, but i actually have no problems with this. I have been doing that for many years now

Ah right. That annoys me - makes their history look weird and also he missed u19s training (which is more important given his age) to go sit on the bench for 88 minutes with the B team

[Raymond85]

31 minuti fa, zlatanera ha scritto:

Ah right. That annoys me - makes their history look weird and also he missed u19s training (which is more important given his age) to go sit on the bench for 88 minutes with the B team

might have to rethink my ways and keep a second lineup of 12 players for the bench for both B team and under 19, could work

[zlatanera]

13 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

might have to rethink my ways and keep a second lineup of 12 players for the bench for both B team and under 19, could work

I still have far more than 11 players for each squad. I picked a starting 11 and put the players I like but who aren't first choice in their positions on the bench, and left the rest unassigned. I assume each manager's priority picks would go "selected starter" then "bench (of relevant squad)" then "unassigned (this squad" then in the case of the Jong Ajax manager if he still didn't have a player he'd go for unassigned u19 players. He's trying to pick winning teams, I don't care about my B team winning (as long as they don't get relegated), I just want the individual players to turn out good.

[KlaaZ]

18 hours ago, zlatanera said:

Don’t suppose you could do before and after? That’s the reason I did my big screenshot post. 

I doubt you do, but I’d still be interested in seeing all 3 of them (Curious to see if Dolberg’s mentals are much better given he’d be 28 I think?). 

Also Mazroui, Victor Jensen and Nicolas Kuhn

Which three exactly? Dolberg, Gravenberch and?

Earliest screenshot of Dolberg I have is 2021. Latest is feb 2025.
Gravenberch I got from 2019 until now. 
Mazraoui got shipped off to Köln at the end of the first season as I opted for Kristensen in the right back position. No screenshot from the start, scouting him now to get his stats so I'll get the screenshot once I can see him fully. Likewise for Jensen (left in 2022 on  a free to Danish AGF) and Kuhn, who left for for AZ in 2021 but only got 14 appearances in the first team squad there as well. 

Keep in mind that this is from before the final update which may have altered some stats and potential.

Man, this actually has me tempted to start up a new Ajax save to see if I can get anything more out of those youngsters.

[zlatanera]

@KlaaZ yeah it was looking at Rooks and Raymond's posts, and Chef Raekwon getting those big bids for Mazroui that made me want to start up again.

The 3rd was Schuurs, who you mentioned in the post I quoted. Those screenshots suggest I really need to get Gravenberch's determination up so he can reach his potential! (It was 4, currently 5 in October of first season and this is without mentoring).

[zlatanera]

I got dumped out of CL qualification at the last hurdle, by Benfica yet again (3 saves, 3 times I met them at the exact same stage, only once have I prevailed). A 1-0 loss at home is the only game I've failed to score in so far, and 2-1 loss away wasn't good enough.

On the other hand, after the 8-0 demolition of PAOK we also have Gravenberch becoming the club's youngest player and the league's youngest goalscorer in our first game of the season (also got man of the match playing out of position on the left wing)...and then we have this:

I'm struggling to get the best out of Huntelaar, half his goals are penalties as he's either getting left behind on the counter (All roles), roaming into the channels and getting left behind (DLF) or just being isolated from play and being ahead of crosses when they come in for the support LW to finish (Poacher). I'm going to have to resort to TM-Su I think as I just want him centrally, I don't want him in the channels. Hopefully having two playmakers in midfield will stop him just becoming someone to lump long balls at. I'll add Low Crosses as well.

EDIT:

Huntelaar is mentoring both my goalkeepers (Onana and El Maach) as the former shares a social group with him, and I figured if Onana's personality improves it can then rub off on El Maach. So far that hasn't happened, however:

I was training both GKs to avoid weaker foot, Onana learned it first, immediately passed it on and added in the long throw trait I mentioned wanting to add too! 

Edited April 10, 2019 by zlatanera

[KlaaZ]

7 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

@KlaaZ yeah it was looking at Rooks and Raymond's posts, and Chef Raekwon getting those big bids for Mazroui that made me want to start up again.

The 3rd was Schuurs, who you mentioned in the post I quoted. Those screenshots suggest I really need to get Gravenberch's determination up so he can reach his potential! (It was 4, currently 5 in October of first season and this is without mentoring).

There you go, Schuurs' first screenshot is only from 2021 like Dolberg. 

Gravenberch is by far the biggest gem in your youth squad so yeah, get his determination up and he's almost guaranteed to become a world class player.

On your last post, I struggled with Huntelaar as well. Dolberg performed miracles for me though and I got in Samatta from KRC Genk to cover for him when he was injured. He was available for 3.7M and had quite a similar profile as Kasper. 

[zlatanera]

@KlaaZ yeah if he sucks its ok, I'll phase him out from January and he'll probably retire and join the backroom staff, and I can alternate Dolberg and Sierhuis, whom I really want to use more this time.

Your Schuurs definitely skews more towards the defensive side than mine (currently has 10 Marking, 8 Anticipation, 9 Concentration), but that's still some impressive development!

[Brian]

The old bastard Huntelaar just can't get enough in his last year before retirement. 

 

[Brian]

3 hours ago, Raymond85 said:

might have to rethink my ways and keep a second lineup of 12 players for the bench for both B team and under 19, could work

I have 11 starters and 6 bench players in my U19 and B-team. 

[zlatanera]

My complaints may have sounded like Huntelaar was in poor form...he wasn't, just the actual all-round play seemed off.

Form is temporary, Klaas is permanent!

[zlatanera]

A quick question, anyone on here not had a takeover? I thought it was going to get done in June this time, but no, that fell through and started up again in October - immediately cancelling 4 incoming staff members  Its more annoying that it screws up scouting reports though.

[Raymond85]

Into the quarter-finals we go 

[Brian]

I just want to forget February, but it's not even over with games to come against PSV and SC Heerenveen...

 

 

[KlaaZ]

Possibly one of the best games I've ever played in the past seven seasons. Awesome performance of my front three as well, Xadas on the left, Sanchez on the right and Olsina spearheading the attack.

[Raymond85]

 

not too shabby

 

 

 

 

 

[Raymond85]

Well, same time of the season as last year's Neres' same injury.   

[KlaaZ]

3 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

Well, same time of the season as last year's Neres' same injury.   

It could always be worse.

[zlatanera]

My takeover fell through twice before September...its now January and its been 3 continuous months. Luckily it doesn't seem to affect selling players, which is what I want to do more than buy at this juncture. But it did cancel a bunch of staff signings.

[Raymond85]

1 ora fa, KlaaZ ha scritto:

It could always be worse.

I sold him, so one problem less