Join the Football Manager 2019 Public Beta today!

[Mitja]

crossing issue:

- AMLRs not marking Full-backs properly or FBs playing way too advanced

- strange defending of wide area (especially on narrow defensive width)

 

[themadsheep2001]

2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Okay, so what are the main ME issues in beta we're looking at here?

- Forward movement

- Cramped central play

- Lack of Agility & First Touch for players

- Full/ Wing backs no closing down wide attackers

I picked up some odd behavior for the Pressing Forward last night but I need to do a bit of reading before I log it as a bug 

Player turning:

a)players turning too slowly on the ball after getting the pass

b) player also not being positioned on the half turn or 3/4 turn ready to attack immediately after getting the ball

[Johnny Ace]

Yep, sound, I sort of counted that as Agility as far as I can see that's the turn speed attribute 

[Mensell76]

20 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Player turning:

a)players turning too slowly on the ball after getting the pass

b) player also not being positioned on the half turn or 3/4 turn ready to attack immediately after getting the ball

Thanks for the addition and acknowledgement.

[themadsheep2001]

18 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

Thanks for the addition and acknowledgement.

This is only my personal opinion, mind. But enough for me to start creating PKMs on my next play through

[Mensell76]

8 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This is only my personal opinion, mind. But enough for me to start creating PKMs on my next play through

Already quite a nice thread on it in the beta bugs ME forum. Your additions are more than welcome 

[pauly15]

9 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Specifically in regards to the match engine, for FM19 the ME has been worked on for well over a year with various changes. This has been internally tested by our in-house match team again for over a year. Then we had the Private Beta phase where hundreds of external testers played and fed back on the game. Then the pre-release beta phase before eventually arriving at retail. Now we're asking for more direct feedback from volunteers making sure you have the very latest code we're working on via the private beta. During the development time for FM19 we've gone through 63 different match engines (with many hundreds of changes to the code). 

How has it happened in your summation that after this process, 6 weeks post-release... less than 1/100 passes from AMCs go forward centrally, and strikers barely move when the ball is in central attacking areas? The result being the crazy passing maps and crossing/set piece exagerration.

Are you doing anything specific to address the fact that this is the state of the ME despite the process you have in place? It's only natural for people to feel at this stage that these type of issues are problematic. The public beta is great, and it's great that so many people are keen to participate- that's not the issue. 

[Vali184]

FM19 should teach SI to never rest on their laurels.

But business is good. People still buy their game every year. The hardcore community is relatively small. And I can't explain how such obvious bugs or how you want to call them got past that 1year+ of testing...

[Mensell76]

23 minutes ago, pauly15 said:

How has it happened in your summation that after this process, 6 weeks post-release... less than 1/100 passes from AMCs go forward into the area, and strikers don't move when the ball is in central attacking areas? The result being the crazy passing maps and crossing/set piece exagerration.

I think this is a valid question seen from the perspective that the final ME of FM18 was lovely in at least an attacking sense.

Neil's summation of this extreme testing process  with so many testers at work has an alarming message in itself. The issues we and all the internal testers spotted are so severe that in all 63 ME engines SI wasn't able to fix them. But they rolled the dice and released this severely restricted ME, the core of the game, anyway at the normal retail price banking on the hopes of fixing the ME many weeks to months later.

I think there are lots of valid questionmarks to be placed here by SI's stakeholders regarding the choices SI makes prior to and after the release. Since I have discovered how restrictive and often unfriendly this board is being run I will let this chance pass but I do think earnest unoffensive criticism is warranted on many levels.

 

[Becanes]

I think everyone needs to concentrate on trying to help shape the match engine to be the best it can be instead of complaining about the process or how we got here.  I would hate for SI to have a look at all of this moaning and then decide next year not to have this Beta and go back to doing it how they were before.  I think this beta is a great idea and gives us much more of a voice in how the match engine behaves.  Please focus on helping them fix the issues.

[Neil Brock]

I think judging by some of the more recent posts there's a lack of understanding of how the match engine works. It's a hugely complex balancing act which takes into account a staggering number of factors. One minor change can have knock-ons across the entire game. There are no such thing as quick fixes and huge overhauls - it's just not possible. 

Whilst feedback can help us address areas which require further changes and more examination, given the complexity of the AI it's not just a factor of us coding 'there should be more of this' and the match engine vastly improves. The reality is we're constrained by the process of the code. As has been stated by the match engine team in the public beta forums:

Quote

Thanks for all your feedback guys, this issue is under review, I feel that a large part of the lack of through balls in the final third is down to poor attacking movement, but we'll see!

The nature of this kind of issue is very tricky, since there's the potential of all kinds of knock-ons. That means that we can't give a timeframe on any fixes, however it's one of the key areas we will be looking to improve in the future.

Also to clarify, some posts were removed from this thread due to unacceptable posts. We ask users to raise issues in the public beta forums, to keep their comments civil and any criticism constructive. 

Cheers. 

[StevehFC]

31 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

I think this is a valid question seen from the perspective that the final ME of FM18 was lovely in at least an attacking sense.

Neil's summation of this extreme testing process  with so many testers at work has an alarming message in itself. The issues we and all the internal testers spotted are so severe that in all 63 ME engines SI wasn't able to fix them. But they rolled the dice and released this severely restricted ME, the core of the game, anyway at the normal retail price banking on the hopes of fixing the ME many weeks to months later.

I think there are lots of valid questionmarks to be placed here by SI's stakeholders regarding the choices SI makes prior to and after the release. Since I have discovered how restrictive and often unfriendly this board is being run I will let this chance pass but I do think earnest unoffensive criticism is warranted on many levels.

 

Fantastic post. 

[pauly15]

24 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

I think judging by some of the more recent posts there's a lack of understanding of how the match engine works. It's a hugely complex balancing act which takes into account a staggering number of factors. One minor change can have knock-ons across the entire game. 

Everybody understands it is complex, that knock ons are unpredictable and that you're not omniscient. What they aren't clear on or happy with is... How has the final of those 63 match engines contained the unintended or unpredictable knock on of severely exaggerated crosses, little striker movement and no central play?

That's why people worry when the release ME and subsequent patches still contain huge issues at this stage. If a tweak late in development can cause the above... Well...... I hope you can fix it without similarly problematic knock ons.

There have been numerous tactical/ME developments for 19 so a longer teething period is to be expected. I just hope you recognise the problem and the justified reaction and take specific steps to improve it. Which I'm sure you are.

[Neil Brock]

44 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

I think this is a valid question seen from the perspective that the final ME of FM18 was lovely in at least an attacking sense.

Neil's summation of this extreme testing process  with so many testers at work has an alarming message in itself. The issues we and all the internal testers spotted are so severe that in all 63 ME engines SI wasn't able to fix them. But they rolled the dice and released this severely restricted ME, the core of the game, anyway at the normal retail price banking on the hopes of fixing the ME many weeks to months later.

I think there are lots of valid questionmarks to be placed here by SI's stakeholders regarding the choices SI makes prior to and after the release. Since I have discovered how restrictive and often unfriendly this board is being run I will let this chance pass but I do think earnest unoffensive criticism is warranted on many levels.

 

That only really emphasises how people have completely different opinions. For FM18 it may well be that you say it was 'lovely in at least an attacking sense' whilst a number of others will claim something completely different. If you go back to the FM18 feedback thread you'll see completely different opinions. We don't feel this match engine is "severely restricted" and sorry to hear you feel that way, but we do feel the version of the match engine we have currently in test is the best and most realistic that we've ever put out. 

We don't think the match engine is perfect and we've never claimed it is, but we're certain it's bloody good regardless we'll continue making it the closest thing to real football available in a computer game or simulation - which we absolutely 100% think it is. With the help of the community we get different opinions and various levels of feedback to help us make improvements and with each version with the available development time we can look to make major improvements, much like we did for FM19. 

And on the subject of the board - we're constantly engaging directly with the community, providing help, answering questions and making sure issues raised are logged within our internal system. We read constructive feedback, answer questions and look at any issues raised within our bugs forum. We also have a moderating team who completely unpaid spend their own free time helping out people who just want to play FM. They deserve a huge amount of credit for doing so, for helping keeping this community active and a place where fans of the game can come to discuss the game and everything about it. 

[pauly15]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

We don't feel this match engine is "severely restricted" and sorry to hear you feel that way, but we do feel the version of the match engine we have currently in test is the best and most realistic that we've ever put out.

The public beta we currently have?! If this isn't restrictive, if you think it's the best ME you've created or that it represents football well... we're in dire straits. 

 

[Neil Brock]

Again just a small update, changelist is as follows:

19.2.0 Changelist (ME1922)

- Further tweaks to number of yellow and red cards

[westy8chimp]

To add to what Neil has said... Something, for me also as a paying customer, that I've found missing for a long time... Was ball curl animations. Now we have it and I'm glad... But that tiny change will possibly mean tweaking all kinds of passing code and shooting code and goalkeeper code etc. Add in new roles with variable dutys... Add in new instructions... Add in improved defensive behaviour. 

Id be amazed if it looks perfect by Me 100...nvm 60. 

Add in the customer base that is really vocal about not being able to slice through the centre... Which when it's made too easy will wake up the other half who play llm and will be able to count on one hand the number of through balls they see in a real life game... 

It is a very complex beast. Add your pkms, opinions and bugs... But be polite and respectful. 

Nothing is new this year in terms of first release needing some work.. You all claim to have played year after year... I can't believe the surprise that there are some Me issues on release and people look back with their drunk goggles on and pretend fm 16/17/18 were better 

[pamf]

38 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Again just a small update, changelist is as follows:

19.2.0 Changelist (ME1922)

- Further tweaks to number of yellow and red cards

ME1922? what happened to ME1921, did I miss it?

[themadsheep2001]

Right, I absolutely draw the line at people telling Neil he's losing connection with reality. The post has been removed and user will be dealt with. 

It's seems a lot of people demand to be heard, but don't want to listen themselves. And kick off when they don't like the answer. That's not how dialogue works. It's absolutely no wonder less and less devs want to interact on GD any more. 

[Novem9]

36 минут назад, Neil Brock сказал:

Again just a small update, changelist is as follows:

19.2.0 Changelist (ME1922)

- Further tweaks to number of yellow and red cards

Is it possible to say - this changes in the direction of more strict/indulgent referees?

Or its increase understanding in both directions?

[Neil Brock]

3 minutes ago, pamf said:

ME1922? what happened to ME1921, did I miss it?

Was just related to the numbers being updated in such a way that 1921 was missed. Don't worry, you haven't missed anything  

[Neil Brock]

3 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Is it possible to say - this changes in the direction of more strict/indulgent referees?

Or its increase understanding in both directions?

We didn't feel the changes to lower the amount of bookings/reds in 1920 was quite right, so we've made further tweaks. It's a combination of factors related in part to player behaviour and referees. 

[westy8chimp]

4 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

We didn't feel the changes to lower the amount of bookings/reds in 1920 was quite right, so we've made further tweaks. It's a combination of factors related in part to player behaviour and referees. 

Lee Catermole as bwm only got 7 y 3 r for me... So I didn't see the issue in the first place  should I raise a bug? I remember cm days when Roy Keane got double figure red cards for me... Those were the days

[Becanes]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

 We don't feel this match engine is "severely restricted" and sorry to hear you feel that way, but we do feel the version of the match engine we have currently in test is the best and most realistic that we've ever put out. 

 

I really like the sound of this.  Can't wait.

[Novem9]

16 минут назад, themadsheep2001 сказал:

Right, I absolutely draw the line at people telling Neil he's losing connection with reality. The post has been removed and user will be dealt. 

It's seems a lot of people demand to be heard, but don't want to listen themselves. And kick off when they don't like the answer. That's not how dialogue works. It's absolutely no wonder less and less devs want to interact on GD any more. 

I dont justify this behavior (in which I was caught in past too) but its like we are children who dream ideal game and SI like wizards which could not meet all our expectations right now  Of course we need to keep respect and teamwork.

it's best to be patient until spring, when the final patch comes out (as usual). For example I dont like few issues in FM18 and its was the reason to play in open beta of FM19 and keep it now, because I have time and motivation to make FM better again. 

It is highly probable that next year I will not participate in the beta test (and will miss the guys from the QA, especially @Christopher Lewis ), but then I will not rush to the game, unless it is in better balance than 19.3.h. It is so simple

[Lord Rowell]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

That only really emphasises how people have completely different opinions. For FM18 it may well be that you say it was 'lovely in at least an attacking sense' whilst a number of others will claim something completely different. If you go back to the FM18 feedback thread you'll see completely different opinions. We don't feel this match engine is "severely restricted" and sorry to hear you feel that way, but we do feel the version of the match engine we have currently in test is the best and most realistic that we've ever put out. 

 

Can I just ask for clarification on the emboldened text and underlined section?

By "currently in test" do you mean in Beta test i.e. ME1922? Or a later version that you folks are currently testing before release to us Beta testers?

Also, I want to say I really do appreciate the level of engagement with us, its better than I've ever seen. Also re. the current Beta ME1922, there's an awful lot of good about it as well as bad. Yes I know striker movement, AMC issues and lack of central play is an issue, but I think we're close to something really good.

Thanks

[pbxtn]

Can anyone help me out, I stupidly un-enrolled from the beta that I was using for FM Touch and now it won't go past M.E 1919 despite me obviously enrolling again (it is downloading a 350 odd mb file when enrolled). I've uninstalled the game under steam and that didn't work, deleted all the app preferences under the AppData folder under my HD, that hasn't worked either. Short of totally deleting everything on my PC and laptop to do with Steam and FM I'm not sure what to do. Same thing is happening on both PC and laptop strangely.

I enrolled the non-touch version and that 's currently showing the correct m.e, 1922.

[Neil Brock]

21 minutes ago, pbxtn said:

Can anyone help me out, I stupidly un-enrolled from the beta that I was using for FM Touch and now it won't go past M.E 1919 despite me obviously enrolling again (it is downloading a 350 odd mb file when enrolled). I've uninstalled the game under steam and that didn't work, deleted all the app preferences under the AppData folder under my HD, that hasn't worked either. Short of totally deleting everything on my PC and laptop to do with Steam and FM I'm not sure what to do. Same thing is happening on both PC and laptop strangely.

I enrolled the non-touch version and that 's currently showing the correct m.e, 1922.

We've not been able to update the Touch version yet as it was delayed and we still have to perform a few more checks. Hopefully we'll be able to do so tomorrow. 

Thanks. 

[Weller1980]

2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

That only really emphasises how people have completely different opinions. For FM18 it may well be that you say it was 'lovely in at least an attacking sense' whilst a number of others will claim something completely different. If you go back to the FM18 feedback thread you'll see completely different opinions. We don't feel this match engine is "severely restricted" and sorry to hear you feel that way, but we do feel the version of the match engine we have currently in test is the best and most realistic that we've ever put out. 

We don't think the match engine is perfect and we've never claimed it is, but we're certain it's bloody good regardless we'll continue making it the closest thing to real football available in a computer game or simulation - which we absolutely 100% think it is. With the help of the community we get different opinions and various levels of feedback to help us make improvements and with each version with the available development time we can look to make major improvements, much like we did for FM19. 

And on the subject of the board - we're constantly engaging directly with the community, providing help, answering questions and making sure issues raised are logged within our internal system. We read constructive feedback, answer questions and look at any issues raised within our bugs forum. We also have a moderating team who completely unpaid spend their own free time helping out people who just want to play FM. They deserve a huge amount of credit for doing so, for helping keeping this community active and a place where fans of the game can come to discuss the game and everything about it. 

@Neil Brock can I ask this ME that is currently in test, is this pending beta release or an already released ME? And has there been tweaks to central play in said ME? I appreciate your feedback in this thread, you have a tough job.

[pauly15]

9 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

@Neil Brock can I ask this ME that is currently in test, is this pending beta release or an already released ME? And has there been tweaks to central play in said ME? I appreciate your feedback in this thread, you have a tough job.

Clarification would be great. @Neil Brock you said that 'you've ever put out', i.e. past tense...

[pbxtn]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

We've not been able to update the Touch version yet as it was delayed and we still have to perform a few more checks. Hopefully we'll be able to do so tomorrow. 

Thanks. 

Thanks Neil. 

[NicWar]

Any chance @Neil Brock you may be able to let those of us not using the beta know when an updated ME will be released? Will we have to wait until post Jan transfer window .....i.e. February??

[yonko]

12 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

 

These kinds of posts really make us feel a bit like we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. We've always provided significant support for our games, both in terms of support within the community and common patches/updates throughout development.

Specifically in regards to the match engine, for FM19 the ME has been worked on for well over a year with various changes. This has been internally tested by our in-house match team again for over a year. Then we had the Private Beta phase where hundreds of external testers played and fed back on the game. Then the pre-release beta phase before eventually arriving at retail. Now we're asking for more direct feedback from volunteers making sure you have the very latest code we're working on via the private beta. During the development time for FM19 we've gone through 63 different match engines (with many hundreds of changes to the code). 

To call our development process a "shambles" and "atrociously bad" is not only extremely unhelpful it's also something we would vehemently disagree with. Whilst you're absolutely entitled to your opinion and feedback (which we do ask to try and keep constructive) we would ask members of the community to please try and respect the process and the development team who will potentially be reading these types of posts you make. 

Many game developers release a product and wipe their hands of it. We've never done that. By asking our community to remain as involved as we possibly can isn't the same as asking you to replace the thousands of hours of testing we've already put in just for this version to get to this point. 

Reading that you have tested the ME so much and still is in this condition is even more troubling, with all due respect. 

You have no choice but to provide support and ask for free help. Otherwise I can't imagine how many fans and buyers you will lose. It's damage management. It's a nice tactic and makes the community feel part of the process. I get it.

I don't care about other games and developers or what they do. I'm not playing or buying other games. I spend my money only on this game. And rather than getting better, I see things getting worse. This happens every year now and this year my patience has ran out. I'm not sorry about it either.

I accept that the demands for coding the game are great, especially with changes made each year. However, that is why we pay for the game and expect the product to work. It's on you to have the right team of employees doing what they are supposed to be doing and deliver the product we pay for. If you can't, then no sales and no buyers. Simple business. 

We shouldn't pay for the game and then work for free to help you do what your team of paid employees was supposed to do in the first place. And that is a month after official release of the game! 

Hopefully you understand what my issue is here. I'm willing to explain better if needed. Feel free to contact me via PM. I don't want to derail this thread any further. I just felt I needed to say what I had on my mind. All I'm interested is a product that works.

[NicWar]

^Hear hear

[GOODNAME]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

Reading that you have tested the ME so much and still is in this condition is even more troubling, with all due respect. 

You have no choice but to provide support and ask for free help. Otherwise I can't imagine how many fans and buyers you will lose. It's damage management. It's a nice tactic and makes the community feel part of the process. I get it.

I don't care about other games and developers or what they do. I'm not playing or buying other games. I spend my money only on this game. And rather than getting better, I see things getting worse. This happens every year now and this year my patience has ran out. I'm not sorry about it either.

I accept that the demands for coding the game are great, especially with changes made each year. However, that is why we pay for the game and expect the product to work. It's on you to have the right team of employees doing what they are supposed to be doing and deliver the product we pay for. If you can't, then no sales and no buyers. Simple business. 

We shouldn't pay for the game and then work for free to help you do what your team of paid employees was supposed to do in the first place. And that is a month after official release of the game! 

Hopefully you understand what my issue is here. I'm willing to explain better if needed. Feel free to contact me via PM. I don't want to derail this thread any further. I just felt I needed to say what I had on my mind. All I'm interested is a product that works.

This!

I told earlier,when you buy a game you expect that the game will be at his final build and he will be ready to play,i think this year the ME is no near to his complete version and its quite sad.

Its not our job to raise issues with the ME (and now i want to thank all the people who did it),its the SI job to do it.. i just hope in 2020 we can get a finally complete ME that reflects the reality .

[themadsheep2001]

People act like there isn't a private beta that has done, and continues to do far more work than anything on the public beta so far. The entitlement from some here, today in particular is unbelievable. No, Neil is unlikely to pm you, because he's frankly got better things to do than justify himself to people who neither appreciate or understand what he is SI does. I wouldn't be surprised if frankly next year there isn't a public beta and they simply add more people to the private beta. 

I also won't be surprised if in fact you hear less from Neil and Co in these threads, because it's actually been of zero benefit for them to engage with this community, especially today. 

Help because you want to. Not because you feel it entitles you demand things of others.

People always want to hear more from SI. Always asking: why don't they interact more? Read the last two pages and tell me why it's worth it for them, culminating in someone telling Neil he's detached from reality because he disagrees with Neil's view.

Listening, respect and dialogue goes both ways, and frankly some of you would do well to take some of your own advice. 

[Herbie2100]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

People act like there isn't a private beta that has done, and continues to do far more work than anything on the public beta so far. The entitlement from some here, today in particularunbelievable. No, Neil is unlikely to pm you, because he's frankly got better things to do than justify himself to people who neither appreciate or understand what he does. I wouldn't be surprised if frankly next year there isn't a public beta and they simply add more people to the private beta. 

I also won't be surprised if in fact you hear less from Neil and Co in these threads, because it's actually been of zero benefit to engage with this community, especially today. 

Help because you want to. Not because you feel it entitles you demand things of others.

People always want to hear more from SI. Always asking: why don't they interact more? Read the last two pages and tell me why it's worth it for them, culminating in someone telling Neil he's detached from reality because he disagrees with Neil's view. Listening and dialogue foes both ways, and frankly some of you would do well to take some of your own advice. 

Dont think you are really getting what people are saying/feeling.

 

There shouldn't even be a beta, we are 1 month after full release and the Match Engine still feels like Alpha.

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, Herbie2100 said:

Dont think you are really getting what people are saying/feeling.

 

There shouldn't even be a beta, we are 1 month after full release and the Match Engine still feels like Alpha.

If you think there shouldn't be a beta, you absolutely do not understand game development. Especially if you think this feels anything like an alpha build. That's just exaggeration to the point of outright wrong. 

[Amarante]

14 hours ago, Mitja said:

or just postpone the release of new one until it's ready. i'm sure this one will be fantastic when most issues are fixed. but i doubt anyone would preffer this one over highly polished 18 ME. i really don't mind for all other issues but ME is bread and butter of the game. 

That's not how it works buddy. The publisher needs a yearly release. Staff needs to be paid, licenses fee needs to be paid etc etc. If SI is to postpone a release that might be putting them in a big big financial trouble and contractual agreements with there publisher. 

[Herbie2100]

2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

If you think there shouldn't be a beta, you absolutely do not understand game development. Especially if you think this feels anything like an alpha build. That's just exaggeration to the point of outright wrong. 

Every game has a beta, i understand that, but not 1 month after realease.

 

My opinion cant be right or wrong, it's an opinion.

 

 

[themadsheep2001]

And for those who don't understand why a beta needs exist: as long as you continue to support and update a product, you need an area to test, debug and stress your changes as best you can . Otherwise you'd be releasing them totally wild with no idea of what impacts they have and what could go wrong. 

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, Herbie2100 said:

Every game has a beta, i understand that, but not 1 month after realease.

 

My opinion cant be right or wrong, it's an opinion.

 

 

Or course an opinion can be wrong. An opinion contrary to fact is wrong. Example; one has the opinion that 2+2=5 or that the world is flat. You're objectively wrong on both counts. 

[Herbie2100]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Or course an opinion can be wrong. An opinion contrary to fact is wrong. Example; one has the opinion that 2+2=5 or that the world is flat. You're objective wrong on both counts. 

But not in the mather of the Match Engine

Some think it's good

Some think it's bad

none of the above is wrong.

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, Herbie2100 said:

But not in the mather of the Match Engine

Some think it's good

Some think it's bad

none of the above is wrong.

That's not what I was alluding to. I was taking about not needing a beta. Or this being like an alpha. 

[Mush1983]

22 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

People act like there isn't a private beta that has done, and continues to do far more work than anything on the public beta so far. The entitlement from some here, today in particular is unbelievable. No, Neil is unlikely to pm you, because he's frankly got better things to do than justify himself to people who neither appreciate or understand what he is SI does. I wouldn't be surprised if frankly next year there isn't a public beta and they simply add more people to the private beta. 

I also won't be surprised if in fact you hear less from Neil and Co in these threads, because it's actually been of zero benefit for them to engage with this community, especially today. 

Help because you want to. Not because you feel it entitles you demand things of others.

People always want to hear more from SI. Always asking: why don't they interact more? Read the last two pages and tell me why it's worth it for them, culminating in someone telling Neil he's detached from reality because he disagrees with Neil's view.

Listening, respect and dialogue goes both ways, and frankly some of you would do well to take some of your own advice. 

100% agree you can tell si are working hard on this we’ve had numerous updates in the public beta some minor and they are working on a alpha match engine by the looks of it but won’t release it till they feel it’s ready for public beta and the same has they won’t release the retail 19.2 till they feel it’s ready some of the criticism is unwarranted for me personally on past fms I don’t think you see a near polished version until the .2/.3(winter update) 

[Herbie2100]

41 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

That's not what I was alluding to. I was taking about not needing a beta. Or this being like an alpha. 

Yes there has to be a beta, when you are making changes and a test fase etc etc.  I understand that, i think we all are.

A lot of people here just think the game(ME) was released in a very bad state and still is.

 

If i feel like the current ME feels like an alpha build, then thats how i feel, does not make it incorret.

[Mitja]

on attacking mentality or direct tactics players don't know what to do with the ball, except dribbling or crossing,  hoofball from both teams. 56% passing rate after half time? and what's that with crossing from one wing to another, can we count it as cross?

https://gyazo.com/4ea7d9eaa4410b0d130fbcc5a8e4d95e

[Mitja]

AI vs AI
https://gyazo.com/e26330e29afbd8b4809e088bc39791b8

[Dagenham_Dave]

If there's an ongoing user beta next year, it should be done by invite only, and this thread is exactly the reason why. 

[baris28]

I think you shouldn't encourage developers like this from this overall negative feedback. As there are new game developers every year like to show new ideas and some niche wargames still test  +100 battle equipment about war results after so many years on same game. Money not easily earned. 

Hope the best.