No key passes, no completed dribbles, no chances

[fidelitywars]

3 hours ago, luka_ said:

I've also playing as HSV and also had a set up of control possesion and also had much problems with creating anything. I was on the verge of a sack actually and then I decided to change my approach.

So I went to fluid counter attack style which had me  go on a 14 game unbeaten run with a win in the last game securing promotion to the Bundesliga. I still had some issues when playing home against teams that park the bus but started to switch roles a bit more attacking and it did show some promise but now in Bundesliga I will have the luxury of playing my preffered cautious style which looked very very good.

I'm looking at the following roles and instructions for my 1st season in Bundesliga:

GK - Sergio Romero- SK/S

DR - Santiago Arias - WB/S

DC - Gary Cahill - CD/D

DC - Papadoupolous - CD/D

DL - Rogerio - WB/S

DM - Sebastian Rode - HB/D

MC - Lewis Holtby - CM/A

MC - Vasilije Janjicic - AP/S

AMR - Jairo - W/S

AML - Trezeguet - IF/S

ST - Fiete Arp - DLF/A

 

Mentality: cautious/balanced

In Possesion: Higher tempo, pass to space, shorter passing

In Transition: counter, counter press, roll it out, distribute quickly

Out of possesion: higher def.line, higher line of engagement, more urgent pressing

Thanks for sharing; couple of questions, please - how do you find the goal/assit variety with this set-up? Are your team managing to create clear chances from open play witohut relying on crosses? Also, how has Arp performed as a DLF? His record for me is actually fairly good but his stats are padded with a high percentage of penalties and rebounds so i've been pretty underwhelmed...

[luka_zg]

9 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

Thanks for sharing; couple of questions, please - how do you find the goal/assit variety with this set-up? Are your team managing to create clear chances from open play witohut relying on crosses? Also, how has Arp performed as a DLF? His record for me is actually fairly good but his stats are padded with a high percentage of penalties and rebounds so i've been pretty underwhelmed...

I'm scoring some goals from direct passes over the defence for Arp, or crosses. Idk, didn't really study the manner with which I score. But I like how we play in general in terms of controling the game. Arp scored 23 goals in 2.Bundesliga, but also was very good with keeping the ball and distributing it to the flanks. He was my best player by a country mile.

[fasmercurio]

I love people thinking about your tactical mistakes... instead of that, just try yourself to do a really possession tactic and you will see why it’s impossible. You can theorize all what you want... but it doesn’t mean that theories work in the ME.

[thejay]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb fasmercurio:

I love people thinking about your tactical mistakes... instead of that, just try yourself to do a really possession tactic and you will see why it’s impossible. You can theorize all what you want... but it doesn’t mean that theories work in the ME.

Exactly, its also impossible for the ai. All managers sacked  who play possession football in my save

 

The match engine is seriously broken, probably more than ever at launch of a new fm

[Guzzla]

2 hours ago, thejay said:

Exactly, its also impossible for the ai. All managers sacked  who play possession football in my save

 

The match engine is seriously broken, probably more than ever at launch of a new fm

FINALLY. someone said it, the ME is just utter sht right now, tactical options are very limited, 80% of the roles pi and ti don't work . i can safely say that during my 12 years or so of fm playing this is one of the worst if not the worst and most boring ME i have encountered. 

[Jdn]

1 hour ago, Guzzla said:

FINALLY. someone said it, the ME is just utter sht right now, tactical options are very limited, 80% of the roles pi and ti don't work . i can safely say that during my 12 years or so of fm playing this is one of the worst if not the worst and most boring ME i have encountered. 

 

3 hours ago, thejay said:

Exactly, its also impossible for the ai. All managers sacked  who play possession football in my save

 

The match engine is seriously broken, probably more than ever at launch of a new fm

 

23 hours ago, fasmercurio said:

I love people thinking about your tactical mistakes... instead of that, just try yourself to do a really possession tactic and you will see why it’s impossible. You can theorize all what you want... but it doesn’t mean that theories work in the ME.

Basically the issue I'm having with the game. I have a save with Swansea and recently did a quick save with Man City because I thought maybe my players were just incapable of possession football. However I'm having the same issues. 60 - 70% possession with no KP no CCC. I've tried dropping deeper, spreading wider to create channels, different roles, I really have tried everything. I have no issue at all scoring with a more counter-attacking/crossing formation. It's almost like as soon as my team goes over 53% possession the ME just says no goals for you . In addition it really feels like the PI's and TI's aren't working properly either. I don't just want to win games by any means, I'd rather lose playing good football than win playing a cross/corner/set piece overload.

[keithfc]

I just hope they can understand what we are facing, instead of defending. I hope they can try whether their suggestion is work before replying. Otherwise it only works on paper.

[Mintah]

I would love a moldable ME sometime in the future.

[NicoPalm]

I'm having the exact same issue. Regardless of tinkering; bringing my defensive line back, reducing pressing intensity etc. the  only thing I see is blocked crosses, corners (and goals from corners) and long shots. I often have no clear cut chances vs. the opposition (playing the lowest of blocks) having a few. 

It's the first version of FM ever (since CM2!) I'm not enjoying which is a real shame. 

[Mitja]

then you guys go to genneral disscussion forum and tell what you see in the feedback thread. that's the only way to get the game to work. and don't forget steam.

[Synx]

On 08/11/2018 at 19:01, fasmercurio said:

I love people thinking about your tactical mistakes... instead of that, just try yourself to do a really possession tactic and you will see why it’s impossible. You can theorize all what you want... but it doesn’t mean that theories work in the ME.

People are to fast in blaming the ME when their tactic doesn't work honestly. Possession, and to a lesser extent crosses, have dominated tactics over the last years. Like 90% of all fm18 tactics where 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 possession/pressure style tactics: push up high, high tempo, high closing down, etc. Didn't matter if you were playing a top team or an underdog, possession was pretty much the way to go. 

And I would say those should be hard to pull of as it doesn't make much sense combining them. Possession playstyle need space to function. You can have great playmakers but if they are all bunched up around the enemy box it doesn't leave much space to make plays. You want to play save and slow waiting for the perfect pass, but you need space for those plays to exist. 

Gegenpress at the other hand wants to play narrow and push up far, but not play save at all. They want to get the ball quick, and make a very fast transition. They don't care about possession. 

Most tactics posted here with the claim the ME is trash combines both of these playstyles with parts that completely counteract each other. They push up high with high pressure to get the ball back quickly, but then play control and slow when they got the ball. You are litterly pushing the enemy in their own box, ofc they are going to park the buss and rely on counter attacks. And ofc your playmakers can't find any plays and just shoot from distance. There is no room to make plays.

[Mitja]

maybe you should try to explain that to Guardiola.

[fidelitywars]

4 minutes ago, Synx said:

People are to fast in blaming the ME when their tactic doesn't work honestly. Possession, and to a lesser extent crosses, have dominated tactics over the last years. Like 90% of all fm18 tactics where 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 possession/pressure style tactics: push up high, high tempo, high closing down, etc. Didn't matter if you were playing a top team or an underdog, possession was pretty much the way to go. 

And I would say those should be hard to pull of as it doesn't make much sense combining them. Possession playstyle need space to function. You can have great playmakers but if they are all bunched up around the enemy box it doesn't leave much space to make plays. You want to play save and slow waiting for the perfect pass, but you need space for those plays to exist. 

Gegenpress at the other hand wants to play narrow and push up far, but not play save at all. They want to get the ball quick, and make a very fast transition. They don't care about possession. 

Most tactics posted here with the claim the ME is trash combines both of these playstyles with parts that completely counteract each other. They push up high with high pressure to get the ball back quickly, but then play control and slow when they got the ball. You are litterly pushing the enemy in their own box, ofc they are going to park the buss and rely on counter attacks. And ofc your playmakers can't find any plays and just shoot from distance. There is no room to make plays.

I can only assume that you've managed to implement a possession-based tactic that also creates chances through through-balls without relying on set-pieces and crosses? If so, please share and explain how you did it. If you haven't, then everything you've posted above is empty bluster.

[Synx]

1 hour ago, fidelitywars said:

I can only assume that you've managed to implement a possession-based tactic that also creates chances through through-balls without relying on set-pieces and crosses? If so, please share and explain how you did it. If you haven't, then everything you've posted above is empty bluster.

Why would it make what I said wrong if I don't have a working possession tactic? You (and most other similar posts) are litterly trying to combine a fast, aggressive pressing style, with a slow, tactical and save possession style. That should be hard to pull of. I'm not saying the ME is completely fine, but his tactic has issues that has nothing to do with the ME (as for once the ME actually counter the weaknesses really well)

He pressures and push the enemy high up, leaving very limited space for the enemy team to play around. Result is a lot of enemy players in their own third. He plays with 4/5 playmakers (depends if you classify the CF(s) as a playmaker) who has limited room to play with, and limited amount of actual finish players. Result is that they just pass between themselves and shoot from range. 

Both of those has nothing to do with a bad ME. I haven't made a possession based playstyle yet, as I got limited playtime and don't really like that style, but that doesn't mean I'm automatically wrong. Pushing up high and control playstyle together should be hard to pull of (especially for non-top teams), as it heavily relies on individual skill to just outplay your enemy. 

Even in IRL those tactics don't provide nice football. It's a lot of passing around, with long range shots. And they don't even push/pressure the enemy as hard as most people want to do here. They let the enemy play on their own third, and pass much closer to the middle line than the enemy box. The tactic just creates boring soccer as that's what it's supposed to do, and the ME seems quite accurate on that front.

If I would make a tactic around your goals, I would start by just giving the enemy more space to breath, so you got more space to make plays. Remove the counterpressure (maybe even add regroup part), drop the engagement line/defensive line, and tick down the pressure slide by 1 or 2 parts, and go from there. The counter when you got the ball can stay if he wants.

Then change some of the roles. The AM(s) and Mez(a) can work together, but I would change the the striker to a more aggressive role (DLF(a) or maybe even AF), and the RMP to a more simple role (BB or maybe even a CM(s), to have a better spread of playmakers, holders, finishers, etc. Maybe change the WB on the AM side to an IWB so it takes the spot of the Mezzela, and make sure the other WB runs up a lot in the space left by the IF.

And go from there. See what problem your running into and try to fix them, before claiming the ME just sucks.

But if you want to ignore everything and keep blaming everything on the ME, as I haven't tried a possession-based tactic, be my guest.

[bar333]

49 minutes ago, Synx said:

Why would it make what I said wrong if I don't have a working possession tactic? You (and most other similar posts) are litterly trying to combine a fast, aggressive pressing style, with a slow, tactical and save possession style. That should be hard to pull of. I'm not saying the ME is completely fine, but his tactic has issues that has nothing to do with the ME (as for once the ME actually counter the weaknesses really well)

He pressures and push the enemy high up, leaving very limited space for the enemy team to play around. Result is a lot of enemy players in their own third. He plays with 4/5 playmakers (depends if you classify the CF(s) as a playmaker) who has limited room to play with, and limited amount of actual finish players. Result is that they just pass between themselves and shoot from range. 

Both of those has nothing to do with a bad ME. I haven't made a possession based playstyle yet, as I got limited playtime and don't really like that style, but that doesn't mean I'm automatically wrong. Pushing up high and control playstyle together should be hard to pull of (especially for non-top teams), as it heavily relies on individual skill to just outplay your enemy. 

Even in IRL those tactics don't provide nice football. It's a lot of passing around, with long range shots. And they don't even push/pressure the enemy as hard as most people want to do here. They let the enemy play on their own third, and pass much closer to the middle line than the enemy box. The tactic just creates boring soccer as that's what it's supposed to do, and the ME seems quite accurate on that front.

If I would make a tactic around your goals, I would start by just giving the enemy more space to breath, so you got more space to make plays. Remove the counterpressure (maybe even add regroup part), drop the engagement line/defensive line, and tick down the pressure slide by 1 or 2 parts, and go from there. The counter when you got the ball can stay if he wants.

Then change some of the roles. The AM(s) and Mez(a) can work together, but I would change the the striker to a more aggressive role (DLF(a) or maybe even AF), and the RMP to a more simple role (BB or maybe even a CM(s), to have a better spread of playmakers, holders, finishers, etc. Maybe change the WB on the AM side to an IWB so it takes the spot of the Mezzela, and make sure the other WB runs up a lot in the space left by the IF.

And go from there. See what problem your running into and try to fix them, before claiming the ME just sucks.

But if you want to ignore everything and keep blaming everything on the ME, as I haven't tried a possession-based tactic, be my guest.

Funny, I'm playing a high tempo tactic that's very similar to what you're suggesting here (right down to the roles and TI's, middle press with much lower LOE, no counter press or crazy pressing in general) and is definitely not trying to control possession and I'm seeing the exact same things that have been reported by pretty much everyone. I posted my tactic here and asked for some advice on why my team doesn't create anything of note and plays such awful football and outside of a few small tweaks no one could really tell me what was so wrong about it, because I know and they know that there was nothing horribly wrong with it. It has a solid balance of roles and duties, no reduntant TI's (I'm a minimalist when it comes to TI's), it's... fine. No different from the kind of simple but effective tactics that always worked well in FM, if not amazingly.

[fidelitywars]

39 minutes ago, Synx said:

Why would it make what I said wrong if I don't have a working possession tactic? You (and most other similar posts) are litterly trying to combine a fast, aggressive pressing style, with a slow, tactical and save possession style. That should be hard to pull of. I'm not saying the ME is completely fine, but his tactic has issues that has nothing to do with the ME (as for once the ME actually counter the weaknesses really well)

He pressures and push the enemy high up, leaving very limited space for the enemy team to play around. Result is a lot of enemy players in their own third. He plays with 4/5 playmakers (depends if you classify the CF(s) as a playmaker) who has limited room to play with, and limited amount of actual finish players. Result is that they just pass between themselves and shoot from range. 

Both of those has nothing to do with a bad ME. I haven't made a possession based playstyle yet, as I got limited playtime and don't really like that style, but that doesn't mean I'm automatically wrong. Pushing up high and control playstyle together should be hard to pull of (especially for non-top teams), as it heavily relies on individual skill to just outplay your enemy. 

Even in IRL those tactics don't provide nice football. It's a lot of passing around, with long range shots. And they don't even push/pressure the enemy as hard as most people want to do here. They let the enemy play on their own third, and pass much closer to the middle line than the enemy box. The tactic just creates boring soccer as that's what it's supposed to do, and the ME seems quite accurate on that front.

If I would make a tactic around your goals, I would start by just giving the enemy more space to breath, so you got more space to make plays. Remove the counterpressure (maybe even add regroup part), drop the engagement line/defensive line, and tick down the pressure slide by 1 or 2 parts, and go from there. The counter when you got the ball can stay if he wants.

Then change some of the roles. The AM(s) and Mez(a) can work together, but I would change the the striker to a more aggressive role (DLF(a) or maybe even AF), and the RMP to a more simple role (BB or maybe even a CM(s), to have a better spread of playmakers, holders, finishers, etc. Maybe change the WB on the AM side to an IWB so it takes the spot of the Mezzela, and make sure the other WB runs up a lot in the space left by the IF.

And go from there. See what problem your running into and try to fix them, before claiming the ME just sucks.

But if you want to ignore everything and keep blaming everything on the ME, as I haven't tried a possession-based tactic, be my guest.

The difficulty here is that I (and I would assume plenty of others) have made numerous adjustments/approaches (some of which are documented in this thread) in an effort to create a possession-based tactic that isn't boring and does not rely on crosses but have found that what plays out in game looks identical each time - no action, no chances, no movement, poor decisions and ultimately, no enjoyment.

Your mistake here is that you assume the ME follows your logic without testing it out; as somebody who has, I have found this not to be the case. If you track the progress of this thread, I actually assumed I was doing something tactically wrong (and this is obviously still at least in part true) and sought advice but after implementing changes suggested as well as those i'd previously tried, have concluded that the current engine militates against the style i'm trying to impose. It's not a simple case of 'I didn't get what I wanted first time therefore the ME is bad,' it's more a case of 'irrespective of tweaks to my input, the output looks the same.' From reading around, it seems that there are several in this position; people with at least decent understanding of and experience in FM but who are struggling to eek any joy from an ME which seems conducive to wing-play and set pieces only.

[Synx]

9 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

The difficulty here is that I (and I would assume plenty of others) have made numerous adjustments/approaches (some of which are documented in this thread) in an effort to create a possession-based tactic that isn't boring and does not rely on crosses but have found that what plays out in game looks identical each time - no action, no chances, no movement, poor decisions and ultimately, no enjoyment.

Your mistake here is that you assume the ME follows your logic without testing it out; as somebody who has, I have found this not to be the case. If you track the progress of this thread, I actually assumed I was doing something tactically wrong (and this is obviously still at least in part true) and sought advice but after implementing changes suggested as well as those i'd previously tried, have concluded that the current engine militates against the style i'm trying to impose. It's not a simple case of 'I didn't get what I wanted first time therefore the ME is bad,' it's more a case of 'irrespective of tweaks to my input, the output looks the same.' From reading around, it seems that there are several in this position; people with at least decent understanding of and experience in FM but who are struggling to eek any joy from an ME which seems conducive to wing-play and set pieces only.

That's a fair point, but it doesn't really invalidate the argument I was making. Most posts, including yours with most suggestions made in here, are all looking for that high pressure, possession style play with great soccer as well, which from a realistic perspective doesn't exist.

Tik-Tik playstyle has always been the most boring one to watch, and has lately not even been that effective as even top teams using it, like Germany during World Cup, and Barcelona and Bayern at the moment, are struggling a bit with it. They are still doing fine qua standings, but most of their games are slow with low amount of goals, more relying on individual out plays than perfect set-up plays.

Qua realisme this ME is much better than last year, which unfortunately for you (and everyone ells that wants to play tik-tik domination) means slow and boring gameplay with a tik-tak playstyle. I can't really fault the ME for something that is in line with realism. 

What you want (high pressure, controlled with great soccer) is proppely still possible in the current ME but requires a lot more effort, probably certain players, and a cohesive tactic to work. It's not something you can just plug and play into whatever team you are managing and do fine with it.

The trough balls, solo actions, and stuff like that happen in game, just not with a tik-tak playstyle. I mainly play with a direct - high pressure counter attacking strat, and Im getting more goals from through or over the top balls, one twos, etc. Than from crosses and set-pieces. But it's nothing like a tik-tak, or possession playstyle.

I'm not saying the ME is flawless (it's for from that), but for me from a realistic standpoint this ME seems much better than fm18 one, with a much wider variety of tactics that actually work, and a more realistic strength vs tactic vs result (as in bringing up a mediocre team requires much more effort)

[fidelitywars]

45 minutes ago, Synx said:

That's a fair point, but it doesn't really invalidate the argument I was making. Most posts, including yours with most suggestions made in here, are all looking for that high pressure, possession style play with great soccer as well, which from a realistic perspective doesn't exist.

Tik-Tik playstyle has always been the most boring one to watch, and has lately not even been that effective as even top teams using it, like Germany during World Cup, and Barcelona and Bayern at the moment, are struggling a bit with it. They are still doing fine qua standings, but most of their games are slow with low amount of goals, more relying on individual out plays than perfect set-up plays.

Qua realisme this ME is much better than last year, which unfortunately for you (and everyone ells that wants to play tik-tik domination) means slow and boring gameplay with a tik-tak playstyle. I can't really fault the ME for something that is in line with realism. 

What you want (high pressure, controlled with great soccer) is proppely still possible in the current ME but requires a lot more effort, probably certain players, and a cohesive tactic to work. It's not something you can just plug and play into whatever team you are managing and do fine with it.

The trough balls, solo actions, and stuff like that happen in game, just not with a tik-tak playstyle. I mainly play with a direct - high pressure counter attacking strat, and Im getting more goals from through or over the top balls, one twos, etc. Than from crosses and set-pieces. But it's nothing like a tik-tak, or possession playstyle.

I'm not saying the ME is flawless (it's for from that), but for me from a realistic standpoint this ME seems much better than fm18 one, with a much wider variety of tactics that actually work, and a more realistic strength vs tactic vs result (as in bringing up a mediocre team requires much more effort)

Yeah, the trouble is that we're coming at this from wildly differing perspectives - I enjoyed the FM18 ME (after patching) as it allowed the style i'm aiming for now and I certainly don't find tiki-taka football boring.

I would argue that it should be possible to play possession-based tactics and still see movement, through-balls, one-twos and individual quality leading to goals; I appreciate that this may be making life hard for myself as I will be playing against opposition who are sitting deep but plenty of teams manage this IRL and deep defences do(/should) not equate to impregnable defences. To me, the limitation of the engine resides in a lack of forward movement, creativity and ultimately, technical attributes maybe not being afforded the value they should.

[Synx]

5 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

Yeah, the trouble is that we're coming at this from wildly differing perspectives - I enjoyed the FM18 ME (after patching) as it allowed the style i'm aiming for now and I certainly don't find tiki-taka football boring.

I would argue that it should be possible to play possession-based tactics and still see movement, through-balls, one-twos and individual quality leading to goals; I appreciate that this may be making life hard for myself as I will be playing against opposition who are sitting deep but plenty of teams manage this IRL and deep defences do(/should) not equate to impregnable defences. To me, the limitation of the engine resides in a lack of forward movement, creativity and ultimately, technical attributes maybe not being afforded the value they should.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the FM18 ME as well, but it felt very limited in what actually worked. While I have only played 1 season so far in 19, I have seen many more successful tactic styles being used by myself and against, especially ones that play more defensive/focus on counter attacks.

I will agree the ME defences are a bit to much, but it's not that far from reality again. I remember Argentina vs Iceland, who just parked the buss and it felt pretty much impregnable.

Anyway for your tactic maybe getting some PTs would help. All my midfielders started with 'tries a lot of killer balls' which really made them try through and over the top balls (obnoxiously much). I would honestly try a less pressing approach for a possession-based tactic. Try to make your team tik-tak more around the midline, than just outside the enemies box, so there's atleast space for through balls and solo actions from your frontal players.

And I will experience a bit tonight see if I can find some stuff that works. Maybe coming from a different starting point helps. 

[fidelitywars]

17 minutes ago, Synx said:

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the FM18 ME as well, but it felt very limited in what actually worked. While I have only played 1 season so far in 19, I have seen many more successful tactic styles being used by myself and against, especially ones that play more defensive/focus on counter attacks.

I will agree the ME defences are a bit to much, but it's not that far from reality again. I remember Argentina vs Iceland, who just parked the buss and it felt pretty much impregnable.

Anyway for your tactic maybe getting some PTs would help. All my midfielders started with 'tries a lot of killer balls' which really made them try through and over the top balls (obnoxiously much). I would honestly try a less pressing approach for a possession-based tactic. Try to make your team tik-tak more around the midline, than just outside the enemies box, so there's atleast space for through balls and solo actions from your frontal players.

And I will experience a bit tonight see if I can find some stuff that works. Maybe coming from a different starting point helps. 

Please do - i'd be hugely interested in seeing if you have any success in implementing something approaching what i've failed to!

The defensive bus-parking is a difficult one; international football does seem to produce plenty of tedious attack vs defence games akin to the Argentina vs Iceland match but i'm not so sure negativity on that scale happens in club football quite so much? In FM however, as soon as you put 3 wins on the spin together, even higher reputation teams playing at home seem happy to just sit everybody behind the ball.

[jozza800]

It appear to be a common issue across multiple forums. I think the issue I have is even against the more attacking open teams AMs and APs will just not try and slide a little through a coupl eof defenders. Balls over the top from deeper are quite effective. But I cant remember the last time I saw that. 

[Ozman]

Hey guys having trouble scoring and get alot of 0-0 or 1-0 wins mostly from set piceces.

I have tried fine tune the tempo and intesity (much lower and lower tempo) but still we are very sterile in possession

any help/feedback is appreciated

 

[Experienced Defender]

@Ozman You are basically making the same kind of tactical mistakes as many other players who have similar issues - extremely aggressive defending, which not only leaves your back line very vulnerable, but also minimizes the space in the attacking third for your players to exploit when in possession. Actually, I am not surprised that you are struggling to score. I'm much more surprised that you aren't conceding a lot of goals from counter-attacks by the opposition, especially as your CBs are virtually left with minimal (if any) protection given that in both tactics you are giving both fullbacks the most offensive possible roles, and even your DM's role and duty is not primarily defensive.

[Ozman]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

@Ozman You are basically making the same kind of tactical mistakes as many other players who have similar issues - extremely aggressive defending, which not only leaves your back line very vulnerable, but also minimizes the space in the attacking third for your players to exploit when in possession. Actually, I am not surprised that you are struggling to score. I'm much more surprised that you aren't conceding a lot of goals from counter-attacks by the opposition, especially as your CBs are virtually left with minimal (if any) protection given that in both tactics you are giving both fullbacks the most offensive possible roles, and even your DM's role and duty is not primarily defensive. 

So decrease pressing intesity and drop a bit deeper (both def line and engagement) ?

[Experienced Defender]

56 minutes ago, Ozman said:

So decrease pressing intesity and drop a bit deeper (both def line and engagement) ?

When it comes to defensive (out of possession) settings, yes - these are the changes I would consider first. More specifically, I would set d-line to just higher (instead of much higher), LOE to standard, pressing intensity to more (instead of extremely) urgent and defensive width to standard. But as I said, this pertains only to defensive side of your tactic. What else I would consider is:

- in transition - counter and distribute to (both) CBs and FBs (so that the keeper can opt for the safer option at any given moment). Against weaker opponents - counter-press as well.

- in possession - I would remove BME and focus play TTM, set normal width instead of wider, normal tempo and shorter passing instead of much shorter (lest I unnecessarily limit players' available passing options). In short, I would look to avoid adding any "fancy" instructions (such as BME, pass into space, focus play here or there...) until I get sufficiently comfortable with the tactic and have a full understanding of how it works.

And finally, some of the roles and duties would definitely need reconsideration IMO, both for defensive and offensive reasons.

[Ozman]

58 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

When it comes to defensive (out of possession) settings, yes - these are the changes I would consider first. More specifically, I would set d-line to just higher (instead of much higher), LOE to standard, pressing intensity to more (instead of extremely) urgent and defensive width to standard. But as I said, this pertains only to defensive side of your tactic. What else I would consider is: 

- in transition - counter and distribute to (both) CBs and FBs (so that the keeper can opt for the safer option at any given moment). Against weaker opponents - counter-press as well. 

- in possession - I would remove BME and focus play TTM, set normal width instead of wider, normal tempo and shorter passing instead of much shorter (lest I unnecessarily limit players' available passing options). In short, I would look to avoid adding any "fancy" instructions (such as BME, pass into space, focus play here or there...) until I get sufficiently comfortable with the tactic and have a full understanding of how it works. 

And finally, some of the roles and duties would definitely need reconsideration IMO, both for defensive and offensive reasons. 



alright i will try this and come back with an update

Regarding the roles and duties im interested to hear whats wrong (for attack potency)

so far im keeping it tight in the back but not creating enough in the attacking position

[Ozman]

1 hour ago, Ozman said:

alright i will try this and come back with an update

Regarding the roles and duties im interested to hear whats wrong (for attack potency)

so far im keeping it tight in the back but not creating enough in the attacking position

how long should you generally wait before you see any change ?

cant see any diffrence after 4 games:

what I can see from the stats alot of missed crosses from my fullback and wingers also my striker (playing as DLP) is not creating much

[Experienced Defender]

42 minutes ago, Ozman said:

how long should you generally wait before you see any change ?

cant see any diffrence after 4 games:

what I can see from the stats alot of missed crosses from my fullback and wingers also my striker (playing as DLP) is not creating much

From what I see, you've won all 4 games (of which 3 were away) - 1 even convincingly (4-0) and 2 comfortably (2-0), and you even won LFC which is a team of similar quality as yours. Plus no goals conceded. So I am not sure what's your reason for complaint 

[Ozman]

Just now, Experienced Defender said:

From what I see, you've won all 4 games (of which 3 were away) - 1 even convincingly (4-0) and 2 comfortably (2-0), and you even won LFC which is a team of similar quality as yours. Plus no goals conceded. So I am not sure what's your reason for complaint 

more luck then anything, got some penalties and goal from set pieces

 

not many clear cut chances in open play

[Experienced Defender]

2 minutes ago, Ozman said:

more luck then anything, got some penalties and goal from set pieces

 

not many clear cut chances in open play

Have you changed any roles and duties compared to the original tactic, or just TIs? But in any case, I think these results are more than satisfying regardless of how many CCCs you created. It's not easy to create CCCs when the opposition defends deep and tight against you. To the contrary, teams that play more defensively and use counter-attacks are more likely to create CCCs because they are in a better position to exploit space behind the high d-lines used by more attack-minded sides.

[Ozman]

1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said:

Have you changed any roles and duties compared to the original tactic, or just TIs? But in any case, I think these results are more than satisfying regardless of how many CCCs you created. It's not easy to create CCCs when the opposition defends deep and tight against you. To the contrary, teams that play more defensively and use counter-attacks are more likely to create CCCs because they are in a better position to exploit space behind the high d-lines used by more attack-minded sides.

i changed my STC to PF role

also DMC changed to DLP D

 

since both fullbacks and wingers have such a low cross compl ratio i decided changed to whipped crosses instead of mixed and asked fullbacks take fewer risks

 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Ozman said:

since both fullbacks and wingers have such a low cross compl ratio i decided changed to whipped crosses instead of mixed and asked fullbacks take fewer risks

Your cross completion ratio is not bad at all if you ask me. I think your main problem is your unrealistic expectations. It seems that you expect your team to play as though there are no opposition players trying to counteract yours.

[fidelitywars]

On 18/11/2018 at 19:29, Experienced Defender said:

Your cross completion ratio is not bad at all if you ask me. I think your main problem is your unrealistic expectations. It seems that you expect your team to play as though there are no opposition players trying to counteract yours.

I'd say that his problem is the same as mine - expecting to see technically gifted players create chances and make key passes in a match engine that just simply cannot process that style at all. For central players especially, technical quality is almost meaningless in this game as it stands.