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Football Manager 2019 *Official* Feedback Thread

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17 minutes ago, Dan_987 said:

I'm finding b2b promotions aren't always a good thing in FM19. A few years of stability and slowly moving up the divisions, can almost be a blessing in disguise if the side/facilities aren't ready for step up.

3rd year in my simulated save, FC United are still in Conference North (went from 18th -> 12th -> 5th).. however with decent attendance of 2,500 (for that level) and cups runs, they now have over 2 million in the bank and a huge wage budget compared to other clubs at that level. Catch is the board are now demanding a minimum expectation of Promotion by Winning the League in the 4th season. 

 

I actually like that there may be a bit of a halt put on the progress if i'm honest - makes it more realistic for sure, actually like i'm helping shape/build the club as I go, I like the way I can discuss with the board what areas i'd rather focus the funding on for example - it's a bit simple and arbitrary sure, but much better than it was in ye olden days! :)

It's just the expectations that suck really as I've got what I feel is proportionately my smallest budget so far (especially as agents are far more prevalent at this level) and I've been hit with a pretty unrealistic expectation with no way to negotiate it etc. Won my first two games (by a single goal each) despite being the heavy underdog, albeit the 1st game saw the AI's 88th minute equaliser disallowed which made a nice change!

From the sounds of your save it'll definitely be beneficial for me to stay put for a year or so in terms of finance, just not sure i'll be able to keep hold of my star guys though sadly - what's more infuriating is their abysmal value despite stellar performances and the measly 30k offers i keep getting! Such is life for the minnows though, still far more fun than buying the same wonderkids ad nauseam! :)

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Posted (edited)

1. Are loans really good? I found that players didn't improve much even if I will choose team with great training facilities or above that level and they are playing almost every match...I don't see much stats increased or value... for example in my team when they are playing they improve and their value as well... I loaned Ferran to Espanyol they have like almost max training grounds and they played with me in CDR Final and a lot of games in CL and his value or stats did't increase... the only one player that I loaned had improve even if all of them played and he improved in Real Betis not that good team but he was a striker and he was scoring some goals

and the worst thing is they might get worse personality and I am sure that they had a drop in determination...

 

2. I won CL in 3rd season and value of my players went up but in like  July it decrease so much even if I am the best team by reputation on 2nd place right after Man City... how it works? why so fast drop ?

 

3. Might be some problem with algorytm that it could be different than normally playing? I simulated next season and in the middle of it I had like 100mln Euro on transfer budget with rejecting offers by board checked and at the end I had twice as much...not sure how I got that money there wasn't any info, changed chairman etc and he never give me money for transfers I play with Valencia, I will check that but it will take me a while to get there with normal playing :) I checked transfer history but I didn't find anything and no future transfers out... I have like 10 loans of players when they will pay me 185k-230k for each player depend if he will play or not and cover his salary, maybe it's adding the entire income salary+fee to my transfer budget?  I just wonder if there is something I don't know about :)

 

 

4.How the underwritter chairman works ? If I will increase my wage budgets costs and will spend all the time the transfer budget, improve facilities etc he will add money just to be at 0 at bank balance ?

 

5. Can player get change in foot preffered? If it is Left or Right can it be changed to Both?   Also position if player is LB but have small dot on RB can he become natural in RB?

Edited by LukasZ_VCF

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Posted (edited)

Let's have a chat about players' reasoning for wanting to leave - they're all understandable with one exception. Can anyone logically explain players deciding they want to leave for the simple reason of "they want me"? 

"Wants to leave as X have made him top target". Sure, they might a bit crap, a smaller club, whatever - but hey, they want him guys! They even sent some scouts and everything!

Talk to the player to convince him to stay - "It will give me a chance to be the main man". Said the Key Player status, highest paid, Team Leader striker with the highest reputation in the team. Hello?

Player interactions and lack of context, name me a better duo. The game needs a lot of improvement in many areas when it comes to it's ability to contextualize information. Too many things just seem to happen in a vacuum without the game considering other factors, it's a real lack of attention to detail that this franchise used to pride itself on.

Also no idea if this is intended or a bug but a lot of player chats seem to end very abruptly and again in a way that makes no sense. After the player said that to me I told him I can't lose his influence in the dressing room (this is typically pretty effective with influential players), his response? "I'm not prepared to go over this again, bye.", chat finished. I've seen this multiple times in instances where we never had that chat before, including this.

And another thing on player chats - why is the appearance of certain responses seemingly random? There's one response that convinces the player and is actually the only one that makes sense in this particular situation and it's telling them that they're too important and influential to let go, but upon multiple reloads I've noticed that it only appears sometimes. If there is a way to placate the player and it's not an unavoidable unhappiness situation clearly, then why is it basically a dice roll as to whether it's provided to me or not?

 

Edited by bar333

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Is there a way to check my loaned players stats how many games they played, ratings etc like in scout report but whenever I need it ? I saw only last game in first squad-->loaned players and I had to check 1 by 1...

 

Also is there a way to see results while I am on holidays simulating the game ?

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The player release clause max. value for a new contract is much lower in comparison to real life.  Any particular reason why?

Players in the database have the correct ultra high release clauses set. Prime example is Real Madrid's contract policy since the 'Neymar to PSG transfer' - even the latest signing youngster Brahim Diaz has (according to AS) a minimum fee release clause of 750 mln euros (in Spain a min. fee release clause in a player contract is mandatory).

Meanwhile in FM both the human and AI managers are limited to lower values of that clause for new contracts/signings.

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I am a hyper defensive trainer for most of my teams and as such only have a few - but then really clear - chances per match. According to the Analyses screen roughly 1.5 to 2 per game.

Now I finally dared to start a midseason-career and am a bit flabberghasted just how many more chances AI teams usually have on average. Discounting friendlies, the numbers are:

  • 442: 1057 minutes used, 58 to 63
  • 4141: 137 minutes used, 10 to 7
  • 5212: 75 minutes used: 5 to 2
  • 424: 139 minutes used, 6 to 6

The question is: Am I really even more of an anomaly than I thought, is the team in question just weird, or might that be a bug? 

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The tab Training -> Calendar really should be Training -> Schedule and the current schedule tab renamed. The fixture list is not called calendar, it's called schedule. The training news item refers to the training schedule being changed. So why does the game then call it calendar in the tab name? Gets me every time, I always click on the wrong thing.

The whole ergonomics of setting up training is very bad as it stands. Doing it week by week doesn't really work because games do not always fall on week boundaries, and what you want early in the week depends on when your game was the previous week. So if you choose to take control of training you not only have to manually go through and assign about 46 weeks a season, you then have to manually fix them up (and keep on doing so as the fixture changes). Instead of assigning in weekly blocks, training needs to be assigned in a more contextual manner. You should be able to set up plans for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 days between fixtures as well as weeks off and have those automatically apply (of course still allowing for manual edits later). If training hasn't been edited the appropriate new fixture gap plan should automatically apply when the fixture list changes.

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A suggestion for trainings. Because it's very time consuming for me dealing with scheduling the trainings I would still like my ass man to help with the schedule, but I will choose the training sessions. I mean if there are 3 sessions a day, that makes 21 sessions. I want to be able to chose those 21 sessions and let the ass man spread them over the weak, so that when there is a match and travel, the sessions will be arranged by their priority starting from 1,2,3...etc. and those further down the list will be missed because the match and travel. As it is currently, assigning sessions day by day, we frequently miss important sessions and need to change every week accordingly. That's too much for me. 

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Has some stuff been removed in the latest update? Vanishing foam, dynamic TV deals and the ability to use the 'I expect to see you lot in training tomorrow after that performance' have all been variously mentioned as not showing up anymore on the forums so far.

Might just be a coincidence.

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20 hours ago, bartrix said:

The player release clause max. value for a new contract is much lower in comparison to real life.  Any particular reason why?

Players in the database have the correct ultra high release clauses set. Prime example is Real Madrid's contract policy since the 'Neymar to PSG transfer' - even the latest signing youngster Brahim Diaz has (according to AS) a minimum fee release clause of 750 mln euros (in Spain a min. fee release clause in a player contract is mandatory).

Meanwhile in FM both the human and AI managers are limited to lower values of that clause for new contracts/signings.

As far as I remember, every Spanish club contract in real life has to have a minimum fee release included dude.

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5 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

As far as I remember, every Spanish club contract in real life has to have a minimum fee release included dude.

Yes, I know - nothing I wrote in my post states otherwise.

In the game you (and the AI managers) can't offer contracts with minimum fee release clauses higher than 557 mln euros. At the same time these exist both in real life and in the FM database.

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4 hours ago, bartrix said:

Yes, I know - nothing I wrote in my post states otherwise.

In the game you (and the AI managers) can't offer contracts with minimum fee release clauses higher than 557 mln euros. At the same time these exist both in real life and in the FM database.

Mate, AI's never gonna bid on 557 mil euro in FM, so it's not a big deal, but it's worth as suggestion to fix in further releases.

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I'm playing as Burnley and just lost 3-0 to Man Utd. I checked my fans confidence feedback after the match and one of the negatives is "Frustrated at failing to beat a team that suffered an early red card". United were already 3-0 up when Herrera was sent off in the 85th minute :idiot:

Edited by Burnley92

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In terms of player promises, how does FM define "challenging for the title"?

I'm managing Fiorentina in the 2021/2022 season. I promised Federico Chiesa when I gave him his current contract that we'd challenge for the Serie A title by the end of this campaign. I also made the same promise to Almamy Touré when I signed him three summers ago.

With two games to go, we were four points adrift of leaders Napoli. We could still win the title, but only if Napoli didn't defeat Atalanta in their penultimate match of the season (we played Chievo a day later).

Napoli did indeed beat Atalanta to wrap up the title. Even so, I thought we'd at least fulfilled Chiesa's and Touré's promises of "challenging for the title"... until I got these messages in my inbox.

0dc39ed3712d9fc1becd87fd27589fa8.png

Because our dressing room atmosphere was reasonably high, I managed to get both players back on side by using the "There's a good atmosphere here; why would you want to leave that?" option (or something along those lines). I'm just wondering, though: how close do you need to come to winning the title to fulfil the promise?

This might be something for the bugs forum (I've kept a save file from before the Napoli-Atalanta game just in case), but I want to know if there's anything obvious I'm missing before I head over there.

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Smells like a bug for me. As far as I understand your team was challenging for the title.

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7 hours ago, JulesD said:

I'd like to know when you're going to be patching some of the more frequently mentioned issues, particularly those related to the ME.

The next and final major patch will be the start of march 

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11 minutes ago, RobertPage said:

The next and final major patch will be the start of march 

Really? So we're stuck with the current flaws until march because that will be the final patch?

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3 minutes ago, JulesD said:

Really? So we're stuck with the current flaws until march because that will be the final patch?

Without this being 100% fact, it follows the pattern of previous years

These have been the release dates for the last few previous games

16.2.0 December 16th, 16.3.0 March 4th,

17.2.0 December 15th, 17.3.0 March 1st,

18.2.0 December 14th, 18.3.0 March 1st, 

19.2.0 December 11th.

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1 hour ago, RobertPage said:

Without this being 100% fact, it follows the pattern of previous years

These have been the release dates for the last few previous games

16.2.0 December 16th, 16.3.0 March 4th,

17.2.0 December 15th, 17.3.0 March 1st,

18.2.0 December 14th, 18.3.0 March 1st, 

19.2.0 December 11th.

Next official release will definitely be start of March to give time for all the January movements, but it would be great if they could release beta updates for the ME a little earlier like they did for the previous patch.

Also, didn't there used to be 3 patches a year before 2015? Might have been few years before that but I'm sure that 'version 3' was always the final one.

 

 

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2 hours ago, JulesD said:

Really? So we're stuck with the current flaws until march because that will be the final patch?

As I have posted elsewhere I am happy to wait because then there is more chance of more things being tweaked or fixed.

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When will the promotion bug in the Eredivisie be fixed? I want to start an Ajax save but not with this bug... Fix is taking too long:(

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5 hours ago, RobertPage said:

Without this being 100% fact, it follows the pattern of previous years

These have been the release dates for the last few previous games

16.2.0 December 16th, 16.3.0 March 4th,

17.2.0 December 15th, 17.3.0 March 1st,

18.2.0 December 14th, 18.3.0 March 1st, 

19.2.0 December 11th.

more two months without playing

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There is something wonky going on with ball physics since the last update.

When a keeper deflects a shot wide, the ball dramitcally gains speed rather than slowing.

Anyone else noticing this?

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7 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

There is something wonky going on with ball physics since the last update.

When a keeper deflects a shot wide, the ball dramitcally gains speed rather than slowing.

Anyone else noticing this?

To be honest... yes, I have seen some weird physics going on when it comes to goalkeeper saves.

It might be worth reporting those incidents in the bugs forum, if you haven't done so already. I might do the same when I next load up FM (I'm currently taking a break between saves).

Edited by CFuller

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8 hours ago, rdbayly said:

There is something wonky going on with ball physics since the last update.

When a keeper deflects a shot wide, the ball dramitcally gains speed rather than slowing.

Anyone else noticing this?

There's been something off about the ball physics in deflections for a while; predates the current release.  There are two issues that I think need looking at:

  • As you have described, sometimes the ball accelerates on deflection, which it obviously shouldn't do. I've seen this with deflection off keepers and also shots/crosses deflecting off defenders.
     
  • The second is the way the ball bounces off players as if they were snooker balls. The body has some hardpoints where that is a 'close enough' model (head, knees, elbows), but most hits on the body will cause a significant loss of ball momentum even without any attempt by the player to control, because most parts of the body hit by a ball have give or cause a reaction that draws the impact into the body. Reducing ball momentum in these situations would reduce the mad pinball effects you sometime see in the area.

 

Edited by rp1966

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2 hours ago, the_gers_fan said:

It’s a sad state of affairs. Purchase the game in November, can’t enjoy the “full” version until March. It’s becoming a regular theme.

It shouldn’t be allowed but they have our money now why do they care? 

Customer support has got worse over the years when in fact it should have been getting better.

Their pockets need hurting but that won’t happen because the average gamer probably won’t think anything of certain bugs and think it’s just normal. 

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17 hours ago, JulesD said:

Really? So we're stuck with the current flaws until march because that will be the final patch?

Usually the last patch is more about January transfers, not sure when was the last time they have made major tweaks to the ME.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't nearly every computer game get patches for months (and in some cases years) after they are released? SI's approach to updating their game is not much different to any other developer's approach.

FM19 was playable on full release, in spite of the inevitable bugs that will creep into such a complex game. >95% of FMers would say it is playable now. SI just need time to fix as many bugs as they can to make sure the game is in its best possible state after the final patch comes out.

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2 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't nearly every computer game get patches for months (and in some cases years) after they are released? SI's approach to updating their game is not much different to any other developer's approach.

FM19 was playable on full release, in spite of the inevitable bugs that will creep into such a complex game. >95% of FMers would say it is playable now. SI just need time to fix as many bugs as they can to make sure the game is in its best possible state after the final patch comes out.

Ohhh God no, full release was just as awful, the beta was the best of all. At the start you could have the best team on the planet and still draw 0-0 after dominating almost every game and then get some kid saying "it's your tactic" to then believe it was the game... it's a mess and they should've waited a another year to make sure all "the bugs" are sorted. They usually change it every 2 years and they made a huge change in 18 where most things were changed for good or for bad. They rushed this whole thing without giving it real time and it seems they don't acknowledge it BUT a few changes in the ME could make it the best in the game. Weather they follow up on that is their choice but this is by far one of the worst ones in recent times and will probably stay that way, 

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3 minutes ago, BigV said:

Ohhh God no, full release was just as awful, the beta was the best of all. At the start you could have the best team on the planet and still draw 0-0 after dominating almost every game and then get some kid saying "it's your tactic" to then believe it was the game... it's a mess and they should've waited a another year to make sure all "the bugs" are sorted. They usually change it every 2 years and they made a huge change in 18 where most things were changed for good or for bad. They rushed this whole thing without giving it real time and it seems they don't acknowledge it BUT a few changes in the ME could make it the best in the game. Whether they follow up on that is their choice but this is by far one of the worst ones in recent times and will probably stay that way, 

What do you mean by "they should've waited another year"?

I can still remember playing the FM18 demo. The football I saw at that stage in FM18's development cycle was ugly, and competent defending was barely even a thing. I would say the FM19 match engine looks miles better, but that is just my opinion.

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1 hour ago, CFuller said:

What do you mean by "they should've waited another year"?

I can still remember playing the FM18 demo. The football I saw at that stage in FM18's development cycle was ugly, and competent defending was barely even a thing. I would say the FM19 match engine looks miles better, but that is just my opinion.

They go from one extreme to another though. They can’t find the right balance. I never had any issues up until the new update now goals are flying in from miles out. It takes away how good an actual long range goal or freekick is.

All it takes it’s SI to say, these issues have been noted and we are looking into them but no they try to pretend they’re not there. 

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Just now, Nathozz said:

They go from one extreme to another though. They can’t find the right balance. I never had any issues up until the new update now goals are flying in from miles out. It takes away how good an actual long range goal or freekick is.

All it takes it’s SI to say, these issues have been noted and we are looking into them but no they try to pretend they’re not there. 

With regards to long-range goals, it's a bit difficult to say if there's an obvious issue. Not all FMers have the same ideas of how many long-range goals are too much, not enough or just right. I saw about 8-10 such goals in my most recent season with Fiorentina, which seems perfectly fine to me.

If you browse through the bugs forum, you will see many posts from Sports Interactive employees saying that certain issues have been logged and are under review. Why don't we see them appear on GD that often (aside from Neil, Seb and one or two others)? I believe there've been issues in the past where SI staff members have responded to complaints, only to receive completely unacceptable abuse in return.

It's now a case of "damned if they do, damned if they don't". SI are criticised when they don't respond to complaints and abused when they do.

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5 hours ago, the_gers_fan said:

It’s a sad state of affairs. Purchase the game in November, can’t enjoy the “full” version until March. It’s becoming a regular theme.

It is. By far my favourite game but it’s total unplayable at the moment. And it wasn’t bad until the 19.2 patch. I simply can’t play a game where you win games with the long shot lotary. 

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Last three editions of the game didn't have any significant ME change in the final patch in March. Just saying...

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image.thumb.png.35073382ac37b818dc17c74426605552.png

I'm potentially facing the sack after being knocked out in the Europa league qualifying stages by Austrian team LASK. I lost 1-0 at home to rebound from a free-kick. I also lost 1-0 away to a rebound from a corner.

For the second leg, I used the analysis tool to conduct my own SIBOT analysis, eliminating all errant long range attempts and free kicks. 

10 world class saves by their keeper, who was awarded man of the match by a country mile. He tipped one on to the bar from point blank range, made a triple save from a free kick, and one of my player (No.20) managed to miss from virtually on the line. The one off the woodwork was a near open goal from a cutback, missed.

There is nothing wrong with this by the way, I just wanted to post this as it can sometimes happen. Last season everything went my way and I robbed the AI countless times. This season, the reverse is the case. FM remains the only game that can access the user's full range of emotions in a matter of seconds. The level of anger I felt after this tie (the same happened in the first leg btw) - I could have committed mass-murder.

I knew finishing in a Europa League spot could spell the end of this particular save.  6 qualifying matches in August have wrecked my league form. I've essentially 'done a Burnley'. 

We've got Man City away in 3 days..

Edited by rdbayly

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7 hours ago, kandersson said:

Last three editions of the game didn't have any significant ME change in the final patch in March. Just saying...

Striker movement remaining as it is would be fairly disappointing.  Issues were reported by multiple people as far back as the second beta patch.

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On 29/12/2018 at 14:13, CFuller said:

The biggest win in the 27-season history of the Premier League is 9-0. Manchester City's biggest league wins last season were 6-0 (at Watford), 5-0 (vs Crystal Palace) and 7-2 (vs Stoke).

You can add to that the fact that bottom-six teams will naturally be more tactically cautious against your team and will try their level best not to get humiliated. It is - quite simply - not realistic to expect 10-0s against them (unless Burnley happen to have a squad full of National League North players).

In the 27-season history of the premier league, has there ever been a team that's been 4-0 up before the 15 minute mark, and then proceeded to hit the woodwork of the goal 17 times in the remaining 75 minutes, and have a total of 42 shots with the scoreline finishing 4-1 and the opposing team have a single shot all game? This scenario is pretty much every game at the moment on my save because my team is constructed of just world class players, and a couple of youths capable of making it to world class status. The game always seems to compensate. It understands my team is going to win, and 99% of the time, they do, but the scoreline never reflects the dominance. They could have 85% possession and 100 shots on target, and still only win 4-0... The biggest win I've had yet is 6-0 in three seasons, and that was against Spurs.

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3 minutes ago, iiMStevo said:

In the 27-season history of the premier league, has there ever been a team that's been 4-0 up before the 15 minute mark, and then proceeded to hit the woodwork of the goal 17 times in the remaining 75 minutes, and have a total of 42 shots with the scoreline finishing 4-1 and the opposing team have a single shot all game?

Either you are grossly exaggerating, or that is remarkably bad luck.

Also, why are you particularly bothered about your team not winning by huge scorelines? At 4-0 up, the game is effectively over already... unless you're Arsenal at St James' Park:(

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46 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

Striker movement remaining as it is would be fairly disappointing.  Issues were reported by multiple people as far back as the second beta patch.

FM 16 issues with crossing/defending flanks were also reported and acknowledged early but couldn't be fixed on final patch because of the risk of messing up the balance of match engine. I could see the same thing happening this year especially after recent pattern so personally I'd be surprised to see significant ME changes on next update, hopefully I'm wrong though!

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12 hours ago, CFuller said:

What do you mean by "they should've waited another year"?

I can still remember playing the FM18 demo. The football I saw at that stage in FM18's development cycle was ugly, and competent defending was barely even a thing. I would say the FM19 match engine looks miles better, but that is just my opinion.

I meant in the sense of doing big changes- I should've clarified that. They used to apply big changes every 2 years into the FM games, as soon as it hit 18 theoretically should've applied the changes to fm20 but was "rushed" for this one. Have you noticed how bad the ME is? long shots are a guarantee, work the ball into the box is barely useful and strikers barely move well enough for their specific roles. Icardi might aswell act like lukaku upfront. Biggest of issues such as: set pieces, striker movement, wingbacks cutting in, central play and longshots make the game almost unplayable, we buy this game to enjoy it because we act like managers. You can't do that with this one because what you telling the system forces another thing to happen. As one of the guys said that was re-quoted, how can you expect a game to come out when we have to wait for march for it to be patched up. It's almost like it's a stunt to get money (allegedly) for the next game.  

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20 minutes ago, BigV said:

I meant in the sense of doing big changes- I should've clarified that. They used to apply big changes every 2 years into the FM games, as soon as it hit 18 theoretically should've applied the changes to fm20 but was "rushed" for this one. Have you noticed how bad the ME is? long shots are a guarantee, work the ball into the box is barely useful and strikers barely move well enough for their specific roles. Icardi might aswell act like lukaku upfront. Biggest of issues such as: set pieces, striker movement, wingbacks cutting in, central play and longshots make the game almost unplayable, we buy this game to enjoy it because we act like managers. You can't do that with this one because what you telling the system forces another thing to happen. As one of the guys said that was re-quoted, how can you expect a game to come out when we have to wait for march for it to be patched up. It's almost like it's a stunt to get money (allegedly) for the next game.  

I feel the ME is at a decent enough level, though it can obviously be improved (and will never be perfect).

Long shots are no guarantee. Like I said, I saw fewer than a dozen in one full season with Fiorentina post-update. Looking through the goal stats of other Serie A teams, there didn't seem to be absurd numbers of long shots.

"Work ball into box" is not a magic button that stops your players shooting from long range. If it doesn't work well with your other tactical instructions, roles and duties, it will indeed be "barely useful". I'm sure a more experienced tactician than myself will enlighten you further.

FM is never free of bugs when it comes out in November. It never has been. Sure, you might have to wait until March to see the game at its very best, but it is still playable in the meantime.

Besides, it could be much worse. I remember as a 12-year-old lad having to wait until March 2003 for Championship Manager 4 to even be released... and even then, it wasn't really in a good enough state to justify the hype.

Seriously... what do you want Sports Interactive to do differently for FM20?

Edited by CFuller

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3 hours ago, kandersson said:

FM 16 issues with crossing/defending flanks were also reported and acknowledged early but couldn't be fixed on final patch because of the risk of messing up the balance of match engine. I could see the same thing happening this year especially after recent pattern so personally I'd be surprised to see significant ME changes on next update, hopefully I'm wrong though!

And the "FM 17 fix" for that, e.g. wide midfielders sitting out wide on defending, caused third division sides to be all over first division ones when they had a man Advantage in the centre of the park (and knap's, TFFs et all multitudes Keep it central, stupid, exploits of that to turn into Comedy Gold whenever an AI happend to sit Deep and plug the middle of the pitch)  . :D Not sayingn that any of this may repeat, mind. 
 

For my tastes, there's too much talk About perceived weaknesses of the attacking Phase and movement in General. That is a natural bias naturally, as similar to football Viewers, FMers tend to prefer the spectacle. Whilst both attackind/defending phases need to be balanced off one another -- the key to developing the most robust ME ever imo is FM simulating zonal defending "proper" first, that is modeling the defending as "realistic" as possible first. This means including the more physical aspects of defending better with an actual collision between Players/bodies. But also teams defending as Units ever more intelligently. Likely easier posted than put into action, no less as the game still also caters to really really ancient PCs, which means there's likely a finite headroom as to actual calculations. Which also likely won't last forever.  :) 

Edited by Svenc

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Is the "overwhelmed by the feedback" (every player) reaction to touch line shouts a bug?

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20 hours ago, kandersson said:

Last three editions of the game didn't have any significant ME change in the final patch in March. Just saying...

I also doubt 19.3 will contain any substantial ME updates. It will likely update the transfers in January + tweaks to league bugs. Personally I knew this year’s edition is done when those few people did lots of testing in the public beta before 19.2, submitted pkms and the only thing they did was to come out and say this is the best ME they have ever released (lol) and the so-called bugs are long term, so personally I think they’ll hold the fixes for next year’s edition to convince skeptics to buy the game again.

Edited by Armistice

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2 hours ago, akkm said:

This is the wrong way to look at it svenc...until attacking patterns and movements are simulated better then that's what will impede the development of the engine.

 

The way to develop the engine to enable it to achieve its potential most efficiently and most expeditiously is by maxing out the attacking side first in terms of pass selection/decision making and ensuring it's all working well. In essence by doing that the attack should destroy a defence for all the right footballing reasons. Then at that point defending should be addressed whereby it can be coded to deal with and cope with attack maxed out. Defending is mostly reactive anyway. Then you can model positional play/zonal and man and how that movement will prevent passing lanes/block spaces/deal with player runs/behaves as a block to move as a unit around the pitch within a team framework keeping its structure as required etc etc

 

 

I strongly agree with this.  Given that any algorithm for player action selection has a default position of perfect knowledge, and human fallibility has to be introduced by probabilities of making a mistake. it is logical to assume that the ME is already capable of far better attacking play.  This is also shown by the fact that the problem keeps moving depending on how the play is tweaked. The capability for a lot of the play we want to see is already there; it just doesn't happen as it should.  

I suspect that what we have been seeing over the last few iterations is attacking play being tuned down (nerfed, if you prefer) to the limitations of the defensive side to generate results roughly in line with the real world and keep the stats-bunnies happy. So while the probabilities could be tuned to improve attacking play, that won't happen because (as has happened in the past)  if game scores start getting too high there is a huge outcry - even greater than for the current problems.

So svenc is right to say that defending is what needs to be improved, but that won't happen without letting the attacking side off the leash. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Armistice said:

I also doubt 19.3 will contain any substantial ME updates. It will likely update the transfers in January + tweaks to league bugs. Personally I knew this year’s edition is done when those few people did lots of testing in the public beta before 19.2, submitted pkms and the only thing they did was to come out and say this is the best ME they have ever released (lol) and the so-called bugs are long term, so personally I think they’ll hold the fixes for next year’s edition to convince skeptics to buy the game again.

i think Neil kind of hinted there will be updates but we'll have to wait to see if there will be ME changes. i'm also not too optimistic to see big changes but to leave ME in current state, i don't know all i can say is i bought the game and all i did was testing it. i have no desire to play it currently. it defenetely has potential to be the best ME ever but this is not finished product imo and SI can just postpone it, like you said for next year.

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