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Football Manager 2019 *Official* Feedback Thread

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I'm not ready to criticize ME yet. Surprisingly I see some improvements this years, but many many flaws too already.

But the transfer system.. I mean it's been like this for ages, but this year it is especially bad.

- Most of the times you can't sell a player, who spent a great season, even for his value. My winger is at 27, made 14 assists and scored 9 goals. We won a league.
He still costs pity $42 mil, but still I can't sell him even for 30.. best offer were 16 in 3 instalments plus some useless bonuses. Pff. And it's not something about this certain player,
it's just an example. The whole systems works like this.

But when you trying to buy something..

- Some relatively talented youngster 17, from some balkan league, with 3 stars, really nothing special. Millions miles away from being possible star in the future. He costs 350k.
Guess what? AI asking $96 millions for him. And nah, AI won't agree even for 50, I made an offer just for testing purposes. I don't know what to say here.
And yeah, every deal involving young player AI demands 50% of the profit of next sale as a must. Every single deal. So terribly realistic. I don't see many real world transfers with such dumb clause, tbh I can't recall even single one.

- Last thing that frustrated me to the point that I don't want to launch FM anymore.. I agreed a transfer, about $3.8m for a pretty average player, I just needed him for a squad depth purposes.
He play for a low rep team, who just promoted from lower league, moreover he had no playing time there, so he was extremely interested in joining. When contract talks started, suddenly he demanded $4,8m singing on fee (almost 3 times of his market value and more than whole transfer).. salary of $4m (he earn $377k in his current club) plus $2.5m as agent fee and of course tons of other bonuses. I had a good laugh, but I still tried to negotiate this nonsense deal, I just lowered singing on fee to $2m and salary to $3m, not touching anything else.. and guess what? He stormed out and don't want to talk with me anymore. Okay...

- And yeah, some time before this last drop that made me quit the game for uncertain period of time, I tried to sign De Ligt from Ajax. Guess what, before I approached this guy, nobody even cared about him.
But as I made a bit, suddenly like 6-7 top rated clubs made their bids too. No news here tho, it worked like this for many years. The thing that actually killed me here is the fact that they sold him to Chelsea for $36m with no other clauses (I checked), yet they asked $56m +50% of future transfer fee from me. Not a penny less. Amazing. Now tell me transfer system is not biased towards player.

And tons and tons of other BS. Seriously, after so many years of transfer system being in such awful state, they somehow managed to made it even worse this year.

 

Edited by Theos

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vor 7 Stunden schrieb oulzac:

What are DoF so worthless? Why do they always try to sign players that don't fit the main tactic. They only sign players for their prefered formation. I've been trying to do a DoF challenge to add something extra to my save, to keep from getting boring. And I'm now on my fourth DoF. And not one of them has signed a player that even remotely makes sense. I play with IF and they only sign wingers. I have my mids at B2B and DLP. Yet they sign BWM and DM which I don't even have. I also have WB's set. They sign defensive fullbacks. I mean whats the deal here. Is it just too hard to code them to look at the tactic and sign players that fit into it? Its complete nonsense.

It's because in reality the DoF would hire you and not vice versa. Why should he buy players for your philosophy, if he prefer another one?  Playing with a DoF means to accept that there is one above you with his own ideas. If you want one that suits your ideas, you need one with the same tactical preferences.

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42 minutes ago, Theos said:

I'm not ready to criticize ME yet. Surprisingly I see some improvements this years, but many many flaws too already.

But the transfer system.. I mean it's been like this for ages, but this year it is especially bad.

- Most of the times you can't sell a player, who spent a great season, even for his value. My winger is at 27, made 14 assists and scored 9 goals. We won a league.
He still costs pity $42 mil, but still I can't sell him even for 30.. best offer were 16 in 3 instalments plus some useless bonuses. Pff. And it's not something about this certain player,
it's just an example. The whole systems works like this.

But when you trying to buy something..

- Some relatively talented youngster 17, from some balkan league, with 3 stars, really nothing special. Millions miles away from being possible star in the future. He costs 350k.
Guess what? AI asking $96 millions for him. And nah, AI won't agree even for 50, I made an offer just for testing purposes.
I don't know what to say here.
And yeah, every deal involving young player AI demands 50% of the profit of next sale as a must. Every single deal. So terribly realistic. I don't see many real world transfers with such dumb clause, tbh I can't recall even single one.

- Last thing that frustrated me to the point that I don't want to launch FM anymore.. I agreed a transfer, about $3.8m for a pretty average player, I just needed him for a squad depth purposes.
He play for a low rep team, who just promoted from lower league, moreover he had no playing time there, so he was extremely interested in joining. When contract talks started, suddenly he demanded $4,8m singing on fee (almost 3 times of his market value and more than whole transfer).. salary of $4m (he earn $377k in his current club) plus $2.5m as agent fee and of course tons of other bonuses. I had a good laugh, but I still tried to negotiate this nonsense deal, I just lowered singing on fee to $2m and salary to $3m, not touching anything else.. and guess what? He stormed out and don't want to talk with me anymore. Okay...

- And yeah, some time before this last drop that made me quit the game for uncertain period of time, I tried to sign De Ligt from Ajax. Guess what, before I approached this guy, nobody even cared about him.
But as I made a bit, suddenly like 6-7 top rated clubs made their bids too. No news here tho, it worked like this for many years. The thing that actually killed me here is the fact that they sold him to Chelsea for $36m with no other clauses (I checked), yet they asked $56m +50% of future transfer fee from me. Not a penny less. Amazing. Now tell me transfer system is not biased towards player.

And tons and tons of other BS. Seriously, after so many years of transfer system being in such awful state, they somehow managed to made it even worse this year.

 

I'd like to see a screenshot of this. Let me guess..you don't have it.

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1 hour ago, Theos said:

 Some relatively talented youngster 17, from some balkan league, with 3 stars, really nothing special. Millions miles away from being possible star in the future. He costs 350k.

Guess what? AI asking $96 millions for him. And nah, AI won't agree even for 50, I made an offer just for testing purposes. I don't know what to say here

Maybe your scout has it wrong and he's a five star? 

Or maybe you're dealing with a Portuguese club?

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1 час назад, KUBI сказал:

It's because in reality the DoF would hire you and not vice versa. Why should he buy players for your philosophy, if he prefer another one?  Playing with a DoF means to accept that there is one above you with his own ideas. If you want one that suits your ideas, you need one with the same tactical preferences.

Its true, but DoF needs to be improved. I already wrote about this in wishlist, hope it will be done in next FMs

Btw I play one save in Open Beta with 100% active DoF and he buy suitable  players for required positions

Edited by Novem9

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9 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

I've thought this for years, but the ratings for how comfortable players are in various positions are weird and unrealistic.

There isn't a right back on the planet who is totally clueless at all possible ways of playing right wingback, and vice versa. There isn't a central midfielder on the planet who has no idea at all how to play DM. There aren't attacking midfielders who have no idea how to play as MC and there are no right-sided attacking midfielders who have no idea how to do the same job but 10 yards further back at MR. It's frustrating to watch all those icons turn red when I do things like move a defensive ballwinning midfielder from DM to MC, and has no basis at all in reality. 

And keep in mind that some people on this forum say that having two formations, one for defensive phase and the other for attacking phase is pointless, because you can just slot the player to a more defensive midfield position (such as IF to wide midfielder) and instruct him to move forward when the team has the ball. They forget that in this midfield position he will most likely not be comfortable and will play below his standard.

 

 

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2 hours ago, luka_ said:

I'd like to see a screenshot of this. Let me guess..you don't have it.

Maybe he exaggerated a bit there. But in my save Metz did something like this. Ofc it's not some unknown team but please, why would you ask some ludicrous amount of money for a kid?  It's basically coded so you don't buy all the regens and stack your team with superstars. 

What i find cheating about this game it's that i suspect that AI knows that i have loads of money for transfer budget(300 millions) and he is asking huge amounts for the players i want. I'm not talking about regens here.

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1 hour ago, Muerte706 said:

Maybe he exaggerated a bit there. But in my save Metz did something like this. Ofc it's not some unknown team but please, why would you ask some ludicrous amount of money for a kid?  It's basically coded so you don't buy all the regens and stack your team with superstars. 

What i find cheating about this game it's that i suspect that AI knows that i have loads of money for transfer budget(300 millions) and he is asking huge amounts for the players i want. I'm not talking about regens here.

Them being regens or not doesn't really have anything to do with it tbh. As in real-life, teams are aware of the financial means of clubs bidding for their players and, as in irl, richer clubs can be asked to pay a higher amount than a team who is less rich. See the Dembele to Barcelona transfer. Dortmund knew Barcelona had the Neymar money burning a hole in their pockets and extracted much more money than he would ordinarily have moved for. The AI might not necessarily know that you have 300 million to spend, but they'll know whether you're rich or you're skint, and that makes perfect sense imo

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5 hours ago, KUBI said:

It's because in reality the DoF would hire you and not vice versa. Why should he buy players for your philosophy, if he prefer another one?  Playing with a DoF means to accept that there is one above you with his own ideas. If you want one that suits your ideas, you need one with the same tactical preferences.

Well since FM19 does not give you that information about the DoF (philosophy or tactical preference), how do you suggest getting around that?  And if its not realistic for me to hire a DoF, then why can I do it? To me a DoF is just a glorified scout. Not someone who is part of the board. Basically what you just said to me was, you shouldn't complain about this because its not a real thing in real life. But you should try to look to hire someone with info you want to match yours even though the game doesn't give you any of that info about the person. Very helpful.

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Out of all 81 goals that I scored, 28 are from corners, so that is about 34% all of my goals are scored from just corners. My two main CB-s are Denayer and De Ligt, one has 14 goals on his scoresheet, the other one has 10. And guess what, all from corners. And mostly all corners are coming from blocked crosses which is annoying, especially for my strikers who have bad ratings every game (average rating cca 6.8).

 

The revamped tactic and training module are GREAT. I love it.

 

I just hope that they will fix the ME, because it is getting boring to see that my players are just scoring from set pieces and it hurts me to see that my strikers are neither playing well neither scoring goals, especially my favourite striker from FM18, Moussa Dembele.

Ligue 1_ Stats Team Detailed.png

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I've only put in a few hours so far but my initial impressions are mostly positive.  I've only played 2 matches but had a good goal variety (2 crosses, 1 long shot, 1 through ball, 1 penalty) and the game seems to run very smoothly with a high degree of polish.

I must say though, training seems like a horrific change for the worse.  Did anyone ask for this level of complexity to be added to the least interesting, least fun part of the game?  At least before you could generally influence training according to your preferences by moving the match prep vs. general training slider, and add/remove rest days, and choose a particular focus like tactical familiarity.  Now the whole thing is so monstrously intimidating it's become an all or nothing affair.  Either you delve into it and spend hours customizing your schedules, or you leave it up to your assman and have zero influence on it at all.  In short, I strongly dislike the new training module and view it as a grave miscalculation on SI's part.

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4 minutes ago, pauly15 said:

Hanging out for the new patch. For me, there are five or six issues I hope get closer to resolved:

- robotic striker movement bee-lining to CF

- pressing

- lack of central through balls.

- passing directness back to where it was in the beta. 

- players dwelling on ball in crossing positions. 

- PPM rate, especially for "shoots from distance", "tried killer balls" and "runs with bll often. 

If you are bothered by any of these please post in the bugs forum with PKMs, times and screenshots. 

Same here. Hope the next patch will also make it possible to play a possession style of football again. Looking at the stats of the PL and seeing City sitting at 77% passing success just destroys any immersion I have with this game, especially since I was planning to play a more City like style once I arrived at the higher leagues.

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vor 27 Minuten schrieb oulzac:

Well since FM19 does not give you that information about the DoF (philosophy or tactical preference), how do you suggest getting around that?  And if its not realistic for me to hire a DoF, then why can I do it? To me a DoF is just a glorified scout. Not someone who is part of the board. Basically what you just said to me was, you shouldn't complain about this because its not a real thing in real life. But you should try to look to hire someone with info you want to match yours even though the game doesn't give you any of that info about the person. Very helpful.

A DoF is the most important staff member in a football club. In the hierarchy just the board and chairman is above him. The manager is below. 

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13 minutes ago, oulzac said:

Well since FM19 does not give you that information about the DoF (philosophy or tactical preference), how do you suggest getting around that?  And if its not realistic for me to hire a DoF, then why can I do it? To me a DoF is just a glorified scout. Not someone who is part of the board. Basically what you just said to me was, you shouldn't complain about this because its not a real thing in real life. But you should try to look to hire someone with info you want to match yours even though the game doesn't give you any of that info about the person. Very helpful.

Forget the job title...the issue isnt the DOF per sae... 

When i plan my next signing it could be to replace an ageing player, to upgrade a current player, to replace someone i plan to sell etc... Or simply on a whim because next season im chaning my poacher to a target man or moving from 4141 to 442 and i need a new striker and backup. 

As humans we also look outside the box... I might find a left back who has a good attribute and ppm mix to be my amr-inside forward.

The AI (be it dof or ai manager) cannot think dynamically like that. Im dumbing it down a lot... But essentially they aim for a certain callibre of player based on team rep and player rep... And for positions they calculate (based on their tactical preference or mayne your current tactic etc) and then priorities by importance. 

Im pretty sure they also search by position i. E they wont see a pacey fb with good crossing and dribbling as a potential replacement for their left winger... They will sign a left winger 

Thats why you see crazy AI squad building when they sign 3 world class strikers in a lone striker system... But still have 3 awful rbs. 

The dof is no more a hindrence to you than ai managers are to themselves. 

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35 minutes ago, jujigatame said:

  Either you delve into it and spend hours customizing your schedules, or you leave it up to your assman and have zero influence on it at all.  

I've been able to find a middle ground with it. I leave it up to my AM in general, but if I feel a particular area of my game is struggling, I'll change some of the sessions ahead of the next game. Had a very successful first season in Scottish League 2 using this method. I'm not sure I could devote the time to make all the schedules myself, so this suits me fine. 

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10 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I've been able to find a middle ground with it. I leave it up to my AM in general, but if I feel a particular area of my game is struggling, I'll change some of the sessions ahead of the next game. Had a very successful first season in Scottish League 2 using this method. I'm not sure I could devote the time to make all the schedules myself, so this suits me fine. 

What I want is a relatively simple way to do what I used to do in FM training.  Which is to heavily emphasize attribute development over match-specific training, which I only used to improve tactical familiarity/cohesion.

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14 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

This is all good. I've been a lowest-league manager for years, and in previous versions of FM you could hardly tell the difference watching the ME between a top-level match and a 5th tier one. Rubbish players SHOULD visibly play rubbish!

I don't disagree there, but despite noticing passes going out of play more I'm still achieving 80-85+% pass completion so my players clearly know how to keep the ball well enough that way. The opposition have far worse passing stats which is understandable as most of the division is your standard two-banks-of-4 Contain setup with terrible in-possession attributes.

Do you feel the amount of attempted and successful tackles is thereabouts realistic? I can't help but think that, if it isn't the entire league being world-class BWMs, that they simply get dispossessed like Sunday League players up against a PL side.

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1 hour ago, KUBI said:

A DoF is the most important staff member in a football club. In the hierarchy just the board and chairman is above him. The manager is below. 

Do what I do and in responsibilities I make sure I do all negotiations on transfers, the DOF may offer me players but it's up to me whether I sign them. 

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Gerade eben schrieb jc1:

Do what I do and in responsibilities I make sure I do all negotiations on transfers, the DOF may offer me players but it's up to me whether I sign them. 

Everything is up to you, it's your game. But the role of a DoF on the continent is doing all the transfer stuff and contract negotiations.

For people who thinks the game is too easy, to give all the power to a DoF could make it more challenging.

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4 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Everything is up to you, it's your game. But the role of a DoF on the continent is doing all the transfer stuff and contract negotiations.

For people who thinks the game is too easy, to give all the power to a DoF could make it more challenging.

It's unworkable. 

In theory it's a great challenge, in reality it doesn't work at all. I left Monchi in charge for a season.

Sold Manolas, Kolarov and Under over the course of the 12 months.

Signed three DMs on loan.

That's not a case of "adapt your style to work with the DoFs tactics", that's just poor AI.

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3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It's unworkable. 

In theory it's a great challenge, in reality it doesn't work at all. I left Monchi in charge for a season.

Sold Manolas, Kolarov and Under over the course of the 12 months.

Signed three DMs on loan.

That's not a case of "adapt your style to work with the DoFs tactics", that's just poor AI.

Agree... Lets say im arsenal... Leaving it to dof in the ideal world might be the difference of whether he signs a bbm/mez like savic from lazio... Or a playmaker like parejo. Not... No midfielder, but 7 left backs and 3 back up gks. 

However, as i wrote a few posts before it would be impossible for a piece of code to create the thinking patterns of a human. 

A nice half way house would make it workable where we are able to tell the dof...spend 50m on a striker for me... And use the other 30m to get me a backup cb and if anything left over a utility man would be welcome. Then they go and find appropriate target and do the negotiating and contracts etc. And maybe to make it more engaging it could be like board request where the dof can say 'ramsey is a fan favourite we are working on contract for him so will not spend 50m on a midfielder... We think it would be more prudent replacing mustafi with an elite cb, how does that sound?'... 'mustafi is still part of my plans, i would like to progress with a world class mezalla'... 'we refuse your request and will place £x for de vrij as our main target, this concludes discussion' /or 'ok youve convinced us but we expect results, we will pursue savic as top target' 

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2 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Agree... Lets say im arsenal... Leaving it to dof in the ideal world might be the difference of whether he signs a bbm/mez like savic from lazio... Or a playmaker like parejo. Not... No midfielder, but 7 left backs and 3 back up gks. 

However, as i wrote a few posts before it would be impossible for a piece of code to create the thinking patterns of a human. 

A nice half way house would make it workable where we are able to tell the dof...spend 50m on a striker for me... And use the other 30m to get me a backup cb and if anything left over a utility man would be welcome. Then they go and find appropriate target and do the negotiating and contracts etc. And maybe to make it more engaging it could be like board request where the dof can say 'ramsey is a fan favourite we are working on contract for him so will not spend 50m on a midfielder... We think it would be more prudent replacing mustafi with an elite cb, how does that sound?'... 'mustafi is still part of my plans, i would like to progress with a world class mezalla'... 'we refuse your request and will place £x for de vrij as our main target, this concludes discussion' /or 'ok youve convinced us but we expect results, we will pursue savic as top target' 

I find it works via transfer targets, and not just leaving them to find players themselves, but surely that defeats the point?

I'm a bit naive as to how it's meant to work though, does the manager usually tell the DoF who to sign?

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There is always an advantage for human managers when it goes to team building and this is the reason why the game becomes easier after 2 or 3 seasons. Making the AI more intelligent is not that easy, as this part is similar to the squad selection in the ME. There are so many things to think about. If you could accept the limitation you could also accept that a DoF ins not that smart as you. 

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb RandomGuy.:

I find it works via transfer targets, and not just leaving them to find players themselves, but surely that defeats the point?

I'm a bit naive as to how it's meant to work though, does the manager usually tell the DoF who to sign?

They work together and a manager could make suggestions, but in the end it's the DoF who will be responsible for the player he brings in. The way it works in FM is quiet realistic, you can add players as transfer targets, but if the DoF thinks they are too expensive, the transfer will fail.

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1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I find it works via transfer targets, and not just leaving them to find players themselves, but surely that defeats the point?

I'm a bit naive as to how it's meant to work though, does the manager usually tell the DoF who to sign?

No you are right, thats why i said i agree with you :D

I just dont think there is any piece of code that could be written to make an AI DOF think as dynamically as a human. So giving them control will yield silly results in squad building... Whilst it would make the game more challenging... So would playing with my eyes shut. Its not a realistic way of adding challenge to the game.

Bridging the gap between handing complete control or adding transfer targets, by the half way house kind of idea i just outlined... Could make it a little more challenging, but without the total frustration of illogical squad building. 

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Not something I've tried myself, but Oliver Jensen's fantastic blog goes into some detail about how he works with a DoF:

https://theresonlyoneball.com/2018/05/15/my-approach-to-utilising-a-director-of-football-in-football-manager-2018/#more-1508

Hopefully, @fmFutbolManager will see and respond to this thread!

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb westy8chimp:

Bridging the gap between handing complete control or adding transfer targets, by the half way house kind of idea i just outlined... Could make it a little more challenging, but without the total frustration of illogical squad building. 

Wrong squad building is the most common reason why DoF get fired in real football. 

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5 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Wrong squad building is the most common reason why DoF get fired in real football. 

But thats more about player fit/ability... Overpaying on a stinker... Dont know a real life dof who would sign 5 strikers whilst having 0 wingers and the manager wants to play 442. 

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11 minutes ago, KUBI said:

There is always an advantage for human managers when it goes to team building and this is the reason why the game becomes easier after 2 or 3 seasons. Making the AI more intelligent is not that easy, as this part is similar to the squad selection in the ME. There are so many things to think about. If you could accept the limitation you could also accept that a DoF ins not that smart as you. 

Which is why for me:

Online Career >>> Single player career

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vor 1 Minute schrieb westy8chimp:

But thats more about player fit/ability... Overpaying on a stinker... Dont know a real life dof who would sign 5 strikers whilst having 0 wingers and the manager wants to play 442. 

If you use "add as transfer target" you will have a mix of players who suits your tactic, plus what the DoF thinks could be good for the team. 

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1 hour ago, jujigatame said:

What I want is a relatively simple way to do what I used to do in FM training.  Which is to heavily emphasize attribute development over match-specific training, which I only used to improve tactical familiarity/cohesion.

You can still do that so I'm not sure what the deal is. Have you actually looked at the sessions? The ones under Match Preparation increase cohesion, familiarity and also prepare the team for the next game, the rest of the categories are all about training attributes. 

I do have some issues with the system but I think saying the old one was preferable is a stretch. You don't have to delve very deeply into it if you don't want to, and it's not all or nothing as you say - you can leave it to your AM and still make small changes where you want. It's what I did in my first season to get familiar with it and had no issues. 

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9 hours ago, luka_ said:

I'd like to see a screenshot of this. Let me guess..you don't have it.

Of course I don't have it. Why would I make screenshots of this nonsense?

Does this mean I lied or exagerated?

Pff, I can approach that balkan guy again, if you want, and throw you some screenshots. Rest of the cases I simply can't reproduce. Yet again, with the level of photoediting these days it won't prove anything..

You still playing the same game dude. Go try it yourself. Try signing  a talented player from say South America. A lot of Argentinian, Brazilian itc young prospect playing these days in Europe. Go check check these deals, it mostly $500k-5m transfers, with rare exception.

Now go buy any somewhat talented youngster from SA, not talking about next Messi level guys. AI would ask $15-30m+ for a kid valued at $90k, even if he is at his 16's, not known at all and their club scouts are amazingly terrible so there's no way they could have know that this guy got any potential.

 

8 hours ago, pauly15 said:

Maybe your scout has it wrong and he's a five star?  

Or maybe you're dealing with a Portuguese club?

It's not the case mate. I've encountered this situation countless times with other players, it's always like this.

Anyways, even if we assume my scout were wrong (still he got 19 Judging Player Potential and I thoughtfully scouted this player with all my scouting pool before approaching, like I always do) do you think this low ranked balkan club (not sure it was a even a first league) have better scouts then I do? So they surely knew this guy gonna be a superstar :D I doubt it...

And like andu1 said I severely doubt that any balkan club would ever refuse 50 millions for a 17 yo unknown kid :D under any circumstances.

Talking about balkans, just an example from recent years: Genk bought Milinkovic-Savic in 2014 from Serbian club Vojvodina for pity €400k and despite the fact he was already known as great young prospect back then.

Year later, in 2015, Lazio bought him from Genk for pity 4m, to this moment he was wide known as an amazing talent and already proved himself with 5 goals in his first season. He is a CM..

And these days he is valued at 90m+. Lazio almost sold him to Real Madrid for around 120m this summer...

Now good luck reproducing such deal in FM.. try to buy any known talent of this caliber for below 70-80 mills...

   
Edited by Theos

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3 hours ago, jujigatame said:

I must say though, training seems like a horrific change for the worse.  Did anyone ask for this level of complexity to be added to the least interesting, least fun part of the game?  At least before you could generally influence training according to your preferences by moving the match prep vs. general training slider, and add/remove rest days, and choose a particular focus like tactical familiarity.  Now the whole thing is so monstrously intimidating it's become an all or nothing affair.  Either you delve into it and spend hours customizing your schedules, or you leave it up to your assman and have zero influence on it at all.  In short, I strongly dislike the new training module and view it as a grave miscalculation on SI's part.

This was my initial impression, but not how it turned out in practice. What I do is pick the premade routines and then tailor them slightly. I do this about once a month to make sure everything's in good shape (and again if a schedule change messes it up), and it takes less than five minutes. There are some easy marginal gains to be made (the premade routines don't make use of, e.g., Community Service/Team Bonding/Match Review much), and it's hard to mess it up totally if you're working from the templates.

I was initially very intimidated, but you really can put as much or as little effort in as you want, and it's more intuitive and easier to adjust than it looks at first glance.

It also addresses something that was deficient in the game before: You didn't really feel like you were "coaching" your team outside of matches. Now I spend a lot more time thinking about—and a little time tailoring—how training works based on what I need in the short or long term.

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3 hours ago, jujigatame said:

must say though, training seems like a horrific change for the worse.  Did anyone ask for this level of complexity to be added to the least interesting, least fun part of the game? 

Yes they did. Whilst i agree with your opinion (it looks overwhelming and more complex than i perhaps have time for) ... Its the selfish approach... If you are objective... The work gone into that module is extensive... When you consider the usual piecemeal add ons from one fm to the other. 

Its not something i wanted and may not get round to fully utilising, but in terms of development i think the guys involved deserve a lot of credit. 

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17 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Yes they did. Whilst i agree with your opinion (it looks overwhelming and more complex than i perhaps have time for) ... Its the selfish approach... If you are objective... The work gone into that module is extensive... When you consider the usual piecemeal add ons from one fm to the other. 

Its not something i wanted and may not get round to fully utilising, but in terms of development i think the guys involved deserve a lot of credit. 

I agree with what you say, it is overwhelming and complex, it is a complicated extra layer of immersion, but I have got my teeth stuck into it, and I must say I'm really enjoying it, though it does still give me headaches when I'm trying to prepare for a specific opponent and I get it wrong.

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I'm seeing an awful lot of sudden, inexplicable hoofs over the top to nobody, an awful lot of crossing opportunities squandered for no reason, and no style of play I've come up with has been able to match the efficacy of just whacking it over the top again and again to a striker who will be free 1 v 1 regardless of anybody's defensive line or closing down settings. I'm sure the beta wasn't like this

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1 hour ago, bar333 said:

You can still do that so I'm not sure what the deal is. Have you actually looked at the sessions? The ones under Match Preparation increase cohesion, familiarity and also prepare the team for the next game, the rest of the categories are all about training attributes. 

 I do have some issues with the system but I think saying the old one was preferable is a stretch. You don't have to delve very deeply into it if you don't want to, and it's not all or nothing as you say - you can leave it to your AM and still make small changes where you want. It's what I did in my first season to get familiar with it and had no issues. 

I will try to take a closer look but my first impression is that there are far too many choices and I have very little basis for knowing which I should be choosing and in what proportion.  Having a single slider to determine match/general training balance plus a dropdown menu for focus may have been an oversimplification of RL training, but it allowed me to get what I wanted out of training without having to dedicate hours to researching and tweaking the possibilities.  Yes I can leave it to my assman but I cannot tell the assman what my priorities are and have him set up accordingly.

Bottom line is that this feature pushes the game a little farther into "feels like a 2nd job" territory, which I very much count as a bad thing.

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1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

Yes they did. Whilst i agree with your opinion (it looks overwhelming and more complex than i perhaps have time for) ... Its the selfish approach... If you are objective... The work gone into that module is extensive... When you consider the usual piecemeal add ons from one fm to the other. 

Its not something i wanted and may not get round to fully utilising, but in terms of development i think the guys involved deserve a lot of credit. 

I respect the work that goes into making a game like FM.  I am a software developer myself.  But the amount of work that went into a new feature is not necessarily correlated to the amount of enjoyment a user may get out of it.  I honestly find it difficult to believe that this was play-tested and rated positively by a significant number of players before it actually went into the game.

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4 hours ago, pauly15 said:

Hanging out for the new patch. For me, there are five or six issues I hope get closer to resolved:

- robotic striker movement bee-lining to CF

- pressing

- lack of central through balls.

- passing directness back to where it was in the beta. 

- players dwelling on ball in crossing positions. 

- PPM rate, especially for "shoots from distance", "tried killer balls" and "runs with bll often. 

If you are bothered by any of these please post in the bugs forum with PKMs, times and screenshots. 

THIS

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9 horas atrás, ceefax the cat disse:

I've thought this for years, but the ratings for how comfortable players are in various positions are weird and unrealistic.

There isn't a right back on the planet who is totally clueless at all possible ways of playing right wingback, and vice versa. There isn't a central midfielder on the planet who has no idea at all how to play DM. There aren't attacking midfielders who have no idea how to play as MC and there are no right-sided attacking midfielders who have no idea how to do the same job but 10 yards further back at MR. It's frustrating to watch all those icons turn red when I do things like move a defensive ballwinning midfielder from DM to MC, and has no basis at all in reality. 

I absolutely agree with you. Doesn't make much sense that a winger goes from green to red just because i start him some meters backwards (like a ML instead of an AML).

Having said that, I've read people here that know better than me that you can play without paying any attention to the circle colors and that even a team full of orange circles can play quite well. I don't know because a part of me still things the logical way: a green circle is better than a red/orange one for a given player.

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22 minutes ago, jujigatame said:

I will try to take a closer look but my first impression is that there are far too many choices and I have very little basis for knowing which I should be choosing and in what proportion.  Having a single slider to determine match/general training balance plus a dropdown menu for focus may have been an oversimplification of RL training, but it allowed me to get what I wanted out of training without having to dedicate hours to researching and tweaking the possibilities.  Yes I can leave it to my assman but I cannot tell the assman what my priorities are and have him set up accordingly.

Bottom line is that this feature pushes the game a little farther into "feels like a 2nd job" territory, which I very much count as a bad thing.

I agree that there are too many choices and that's one of my issues with the system, feels like the number of sessions could have been cut down by a third at least. But the thing to understand is we're talking very, very marginal gains here for making the "right choice". It's the paralysis by analysis that can make you hate this system so I'd suggest just don't think about it too much, go with whatever makes intuitive sense. I haven't even created any custom schedules since taking over training myself, I just set up the pre set ones according to what I feel like and tweak them here and there.

This system actually allows you to target what you want much more precisely because you can focus on sets of attributes that you want for your tactics and keep the rest to a minimum. 

The AM doesn't set it up randomly, he will select pre-set 'tactical style' schedules that most closely fit your main tactic and he does quite a good job in my experience, and he'll throw in some weeks of balanced\physical\tactical training in between.

I understand the second job point but I don't feel like it's a bad thing to introduce more complexity to the game when it's done in a way that allows you basically ignore it and not even feel bad. Want the same thing from FM18? Leave it to your AM and personally throw in some extra match prep sessions when you want them ahead of a specific game. Consider it done. Even the SI devs who developed the system said the gains from taking over it yourself will be very marginal, that is assuming you make more "correct" choices than your AM which I'm not even sure I do, I just work the players harder than my AM tends to and add more sessions. I consider it an immersion feature moreso than anything else.

The only big issue I have with the system itself is that there is no way to at least somewhat automate things, like set up X number of schedules to run in a loop.

Edited by bar333

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But if the differences are so marginal, why even bother with all this endless customization.  There are literally thousands of possible weekly schedules you can create.  The amount of choice is paralyzing and the tools available to know whether you're doing a good job and how to improve are insufficient.  I think Eurogamer said it very well:

Quote

On the face of it this is welcome. Depth is good, we like depth; more to figure out and optimise and lovingly caress into efficiency. The problem is that in chasing the dream of realistic day-to-day simulation of the life of a real manager Sports Interactive has created a monster. In FM19 you're no longer just in charge of hiring good coaches, setting a few extra rest days or assigning some additional focus for Rashford on his Finishing. You now have three sessions a day, seven days a week, 365 days - minus a couple weeks' summer holiday - a year to plan out.

Or at least I think you do; it's not really clear, even after quite some time playing, which in a way is the problem. FM19's training section is in dire need of an overview that provides an overview of the information that actually matters when setting up your coaches' approach: who is training what attributes, and are they training them too little, too much, or just the right amount. Instead, I can bore down into the some near-50 training sessions to choose from - nearly 50! - and try to assign three per day ad infinitum, in such a way that perfectly blends every tactic, player, position, and unit's wants and needs, and lose myself forever in the subscreen-subscreen's vortex of opacity, or I can ignore it - which, in a management simulator, is perhaps the ultimate sin.

 

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1 hour ago, jujigatame said:

But if the differences are so marginal, why even bother with all this endless customization.  There are literally thousands of possible weekly schedules you can create.  The amount of choice is paralyzing and the tools available to know whether you're doing a good job and how to improve are insufficient.  I think Eurogamer said it very well:

 

Now I understand the training system I love it. I've had very good results with custom schedules to compliment my tactical system. It's great to finally see a direct link between training and specific attribute development.

The missing link is some sort of monthly overview that informs you if a particular unit or attribute is being under / over-worked. The absence of this is keenly felt with players constantly complaining of either too much / not enough of something.

Edited by rdbayly

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5 hours ago, rdbayly said:

Now I understand the training system I love it. I've had very good results with custom schedules to compliment my tactical system. It's great to finally see a direct link between training and specific attribute development.

The missing link is some sort of monthly overview that informs you if a particular unit or attribute is being under / over-worked. The absence of this is keenly felt with players constantly complaining of either too much / not enough of something.

All of this already exsist. People need to use the tool available to them. I for love the new training and it helps me to craft way better teams and fix certain problems my players are having. Training affects match day performance. 

You get your monthly overview, you can go through and see what your squad members are saying about it, you can set your schedule monthly or weekly or for the entire season. 

Training isn't hard or complicated. Yes it requires a bit of time to understand the basics which takes like an hour or read the guide that also help but after that, you can click through in no time. 

 

Also this is where having an Asst. Manager that plays the same way as you makes alot better sense. 

If they complaining about training imagine the complaints if SI was to implement so more tactical changes and revolution. 

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Yes, this is a large a massive whinge post and I'm not particularly great at this game but I don't care - the way the match engine or whatever it is represents things is totally taking away any fun from this game for me. 

I am 28 games into my 2nd season and won't even bother finishing it. Liverpool have a game in hand and are already 17 points ahead of me. 

2lwvz9y.png

They have only lost once in the entire season which is itself a fairly rare thing, though not unparalleled in real life. However, the way they lost makes a complete joke of it:

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My team is supposedly good enough to beat Liverpool 6-0, yet Liverpool are otherwise far too good for anyone else to beat them. Yet simultaneously, my team that is good enough to beat Liverpool 6-0 isn't good enough to consistently beat the teams who are always losing to Liverpool. I'm sorry, but that just feels ridiculous to me. 

And in just about every game I drop points, I hit the woodwork. 

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1-1 Draw with Crystal Palace. Woodwork hit 3 times. Opponent 0 times.

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1-0 Loss to Arsenal. Woodwork hit 2 times. Opponent 0 times.

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2-2 Draw with West Brom. Woodwork hit 1 time. Opponent 0 times.

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2-2 Draw with Chelsea. 

Woodwork hit 1 time. Opponent 1 time as well, so at least in this instance it was even.

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2-1 Loss to Everton. Woodwork hit 1 time. Opponent 0 times.

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2-0 Loss to Man City. Woodwork hit 5 times. Opponent 0 times.

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You can also see I lost on aggregate in the Champions League. Surprise, surprise, I hit the woodwork twice:

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For comparison's sake, I also looked at games where Liverpool dropped points. There was only one game I could go back and access where they dropped points (other than their 6-0 loss to me) and they didn't hit the woodwork in that game.

Put together it's all just ridiculous and to much for me to swallow. The woodwork costs me a lot of points but doesn't cost Liverpool any, whilst they are supposedly so much better than every other team yet get thumped 6-0 by me. Maybe this is just a match engine function of how many shots I have or something. Either way I don't care because it's making it no fun. I'm hitting the post in just about every game I drop points yet the team I beat 6-0 is running away with the title because they are otherwise just too good. Sorry, but no. 

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