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New Laptop/PC- Help Needed

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20 minutes ago, CalumJL32 said:

Mid graphics on 3D is fine for me. 

I've just seen this though. 

https://www.box.co.uk/FX504GD-E4278T-ASUS-FX504GD-E4278T-Gaming-Laptop_2315681.html

How does it compare?

Same processing power.
Good graphics - play on high (I have roughly same graphics and it's good for me)
Good size SSD with extra storage. 

That would be the one for me. 

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8 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Same processing power.
Good graphics - play on high (I have roughly same graphics and it's good for me)
Good size SSD with extra storage. 

That would be the one for me. 

Thanks for the help lastly how does turbo boost work? And what laptop do you use?

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Quote

Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.01 accelerates processor and graphics performance for peak loads, automatically allowing processor cores to run faster than the rated operating frequency if they’re operating below power, current, and temperature specification limits. Whether the processor enters into Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 and the amount of time the processor spends in that state depends on the workload and operating environment.

Source: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/turbo-boost/turbo-boost-technology.html

 

Basically - if allowed, the processor will run faster under certain circumstances. FM is a pretty intensive processing game, so you're unlikely to see massive turbo boost happening. 

FM is a single core processing game mostly - processors come in cores, single core, dual core, quad core, hex core, oct core etc. 

So having a quad core over a dual core is no advantage really. And having an oct core over a quad core is no advantage.

At least for FM. 

The game processes day to day in the single core, and processes background things, like matches in multi-core, but it happes so fast you don't really notice it. So having a faster quad-core processor wouldn't make much difference over the same speed dual core. 

 

In saying that - there's no real advantage over a quad core i5 over a quad core i7 - they are essentially doing the same thing in the single core - in terms of multi-core the i7 is doing a better job than the i5. 

 

Finally - I use a dell, 16gb RAM, 1050ti 4gb graphics card, and an i7-7700HQ. 

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hi Smurf what do you think about this for fm.

Technical specifications for DELL Inspiron Small Intel® Core™ i5 Desktop PC - 1 TB HDD

OVERVIEW
Type Desktop PC
Operating system Windows 10 (64-bit)
PERFORMANCE
Processor - Intel® Core™ i5-7400 Processor 
- Quad-core 
- 3 GHz / 3.5 GHz (Turbo Boost) 
- 6 MB cache
RAM 8 GB (2400 MHz) (16 GB maximum installable RAM)
Storage 1 TB HDD, 7200 rpm
Motherboard Intel H110

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40 minutes ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

Looks good !

 

28 minutes ago, amer said:

hi Smurf what do you think about this for fm.

Technical specifications for DELL Inspiron Small Intel® Core™ i5 Desktop PC - 1 TB HDD

OVERVIEW
Type Desktop PC
Operating system Windows 10 (64-bit)
PERFORMANCE
Processor - Intel® Core™ i5-7400 Processor 
- Quad-core 
- 3 GHz / 3.5 GHz (Turbo Boost) 
- 6 MB cache
RAM 8 GB (2400 MHz) (16 GB maximum installable RAM)
Storage 1 TB HDD, 7200 rpm
Motherboard Intel H110

Doesn't seem to have a graphics card - so playing 3d matches might be best on lowest settings.

Other than that - looks good.

 

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Technical specifications for APPLE Mac mini

OVERVIEW
Type Mac mini
Operating system OS X Yosemite
PERFORMANCE
Processor Intel® Core™ i5 processor (2.6 GHz, 3.1 GHz with TurboBoost)
RAM 8 GB LPDDR3
Graphics card Intel Iris
Storage

1 TB HDD, 5400 rpm
 

And this one £649

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@Smurf  primarily I’d say FM but I do like the look of a thew other games too,  I was a gaming enthusiast for years but decided to take a break about 5 years ago. Iv become a workaholic and wanted something else to enjoy so thought I’d get back into some gaming 😜.. I’m not rushing into any thing, Iv got until November before FM19 gets released so got time to think..   Football manager is definitely top of my list 👍

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ive currently got the xps 15 9550 i7, 16 gig of ram. wandering what to do this year was thinking of getting a alien ware  r5 i9 32 gig ram. 512 ssd. or do i just get a bigger ssd in my xps and kit it out to 32 gig ram ? this year i want every league playable at all levels 

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What model processors? 16gb RAM is plenty, more RAM and SSD size won't improve anything.

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1 hour ago, jamessmith010101 said:

ive currently got the xps 15 9550 i7, 16 gig of ram. wandering what to do this year was thinking of getting a alien ware  r5 i9 32 gig ram. 512 ssd. or do i just get a bigger ssd in my xps and kit it out to 32 gig ram ? this year i want every league playable at all levels ls 

 I read a post on another ther forum this week from a person who has the i7 8700k which is basically one of the fastest Chips for gaming,  it’s slightly overkill with the 6 cores and 12 threads but can be over clocked to 5Ghz which will make a difference,  any rate the guy was basically saying he had every single league running and he got half a ️ for speed rating but 5 ️ for pc performance..  I’m not sure how fast half a ️ would be in processing time...

also DDR4 Ram,  apparently any thing upto the i5 only needs a maximum of 2666Mhz of Ram as the i5 cant utilise any thing faster so the price you pay for faster Ram is waste of money.   For the i7 you don’t need to go above 3200Mhz any thing above 8Gb is overkill too unless you do 4K video editing etc..  in terms of the cl15 or cl16 rating the lower number is faster but don’t pay the extra money for cl15 over cl16 because the latency speed is so small you’ll never notice it in real life..

Intel are going to be releasing a new chip set soon, this may have an effect on the current 8th gen i3, i5 and i7 price?

if you have a z370 compatible mother board you’d be better of getting the i7 8700k Cpu and over clocking it to 5Ghz, but you’d need good cooling in place for the extra temps,  if you don’t plan to overclock there’s no point having the K version as it’s more expensive..  if you already use DDR4 below 3200Mhz you could change your 16Gb for 8Gb 2x4 3200Mhz 

this woukd be cheaper than buying a whole new rig..

The i7 8700k costs about £350 but can overclock to 5Mhz with correct cooling in place.

just realised your using a laptop not desktop 😊🤫

Edited by wayne'o

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Thinking about it, I might get a (prebuilt) desktop instead of a laptop. Are there any good ones for FM and normal internet use like Sky Go and BT Sport for around £650, less than my laptop budget because I'd have to buy a monitor aswell?

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34 minutes ago, CalumJL32 said:

Thinking about it, I might get a (prebuilt) desktop instead of a laptop. Are there any good ones for FM and normal internet use like Sky Go and BT Sport for around £650, less than my laptop budget because I'd have to buy a monitor aswell?

Try this one https://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing/desktop-pcs/desktop-pcs/lenovo-legion-y520-intel-core-i5-gtx-1060-gaming-pc-1-tb-hdd-10164515-pdt.html

Edited by Smurf

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37 minutes ago, CalumJL32 said:

Thinking about it, I might get a (prebuilt) desktop instead of a laptop. Are there any good ones for FM and normal internet use like Sky Go and BT Sport for around £650, less than my laptop budget because I'd have to buy a monitor aswell?

Building your own you could save money?

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12 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Looks good, how is 7th generation though? And how does it differ to 8th gen?

 

8 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

Building your own you could save money?

True but I wouldn't know how to do it. 

 

4 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

Where is the graphics card on this?

Edited by CalumJL32

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15 minutes ago, CalumJL32 said:

Looks good, how is 7th generation though? And how does it differ to 8th gen?

 

True but I wouldn't know how to do it. 

 

Where is the graphics card on this?

8th gen is faster but more expensive, type it in google, it will tell you everything you need to know. 

You can choose from 3 different graphics cards to put in that pc. 

F19F59C9-26F7-4EE9-AA14-B951488A61D6.png

Edited by wayne'o

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14 minutes ago, amer said:

Which company is best for desktop HP, dell or lenovo?

Intel or Amd chips?

I’d say Intel any day but Amd are cheaper, depends if you want to sacrifice performance for less money..

are you looking for performance or cost saving?

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3 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

8th gen is faster but more expensive, type it in google, it will tell you everything you need to know. 

You can choose from 3 different graphics cards to put in that pc. 

F19F59C9-26F7-4EE9-AA14-B951488A61D6.png

Is 7th gen still good? Tbh Id mostly play FM

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2 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

I’d say Intel any day but Amd are cheaper, depends if you want to sacrifice performance for less money..

are you looking for performance or cost saving?

what would be fast and 3d good quality for fm.

performance

 

 

Edited by amer

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23 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

The same graphics card pushes this up to 750 opposed to the pre-built one with similar specs for 650

19 minutes ago, CalumJL32 said:

Looks good, how is 7th generation though? And how does it differ to 8th gen?

There's progressoin in multithreading, but single core processing can largely be the same. 

See if you can find a comparison for single core performance i7 vs i8

18 minutes ago, amer said:

Which company is best for desktop HP, dell or lenovo?

Intel or Amd chips?

I opt for Intel, but AMD can be good, I just don't know enough about them.

4 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

8th gen is faster but more expensive, type it in google, it will tell you everything you need to know. 

You can choose from 3 different graphics cards to put in that pc. 

F19F59C9-26F7-4EE9-AA14-B951488A61D6.png

8th gen is generally only faster in the multi-core, FM is largely still single core. 

 

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Just now, amer said:

what would be fast and 3d good quality for fm.

performance

 

 

The one I posted for 650 is pretty good and will do all you need. 

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8 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

8th gen is faster but more expensive, type it in google, it will tell you everything you need to know. 

You can choose from 3 different graphics cards to put in that pc. 

F19F59C9-26F7-4EE9-AA14-B951488A61D6.png

Those look like the multi core scores, for the average FM’er the single core scores will be more representing of performance.

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2 minutes ago, Smurf said:

The one I posted for 650 is pretty good and will do all you need. 

any other good desktops for under £500

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3 minutes ago, CalumJL32 said:

Is 7th gen still good? Tbh Id mostly play FM

8th gen is about 62% faster, any thing newer will probably be better than older versions.  Everything boils down to personal budget.  There’s a ton of valuable videos on YouTube all about pc’s from people that do pc reviews for a living..  if you want to know the whys I’d spend couple hours viewing them then you can make an educated  decision.

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3 minutes ago, Barside said:

Those look like the multi core scores, for the average FM’er the single core scores will be more representing of performance.

Yeh have to admit, Iv watched countless hours of bench markings about all the possible Cpu’s And MoBo’s etc. Not many people do bench marking tests for football manager, it’s mainly graphic orientated games...  although FM do t use Multi core’s. The multi core 8th gens i7 etc can achieve higher Cpu Speeds.  So I’d rather have 4.7ghz on all 6 cores as apposed to 3Ghz on 2 Cores,   From a cost point of view your only talking couple hundred more for a faster Cpu,  I’m led to believe faster Cpu is better for FM?   But it comes down to the price and what you can afford?   I think spending money on i5 7th gen would be waste of money but that’s just my opinion not necessarily the best solution.

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4 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

Yeh have to admit, Iv watched countless hours of bench markings about all the possible Cpu’s And MoBo’s etc. Not many people do bench marking tests for football manager, it’s mainly graphic orientated games...  although FM do t use Multi core’s. The multi core 8th gens i7 etc can achieve higher Cpu Speeds.  So I’d rather have 4.7ghz on all 6 cores as apposed to 3Ghz on 2 Cores,   From a cost point of view your only talking couple hundred more for a faster Cpu,  I’m led to believe faster Cpu is better for FM?   But it comes down to the price and what you can afford?   I think spending money on i5 7th gen would be waste of money but that’s just my opinion not necessarily the best solution.

why you say its a waste of money?

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It wouldn't be a waste of money - it's saving money. You'll get similar performance across the single core, that's what counts for FM, it's a single core processing at the moment. 

It's a waste of money to go higher if you don't need to. 

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3 minutes ago, amer said:

why you say its a waste of money?

Because in terms of its performance how many years would you get out of it before you needed to shell out another £500 for the bottom range pc,  gaming is always evolving so if your a gamer you’ll always need to spend money on upgrades to move with the time..  I spent £800 on a self build which 5 years ago ran FM 2013 like a Ferrari,  I doubt it would even load FM18 now,   But the key point is value for money and What your budget is..  if your happy spending £500 on an average pc to play just a couple leagues on FM it would be fine.   But if you want to be hardcore and play multiple leagues you would want something faster which costs more..   I have to admit,  it’s only my personal opinion based on information Iv watched via YouTube about what’s value and what isn’t,  it’s by no means what everyone should do because each persons criteria is different..

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There's new processors coming out every year. If you want to save a bit of money then go for the processors that are new, like the i7-7xxx or i5-7xxx.

The i5 would be fine for FM and save you a few quid, which you can put towards your graphics card. If you play other games this will be vital. If not, then take the money from the graphics card and put it into the processor. 

 

It would be better to go for the newer processors - sure, they are better - faster? Yes in the multicore they are. But in single core you'll get roughly same experience. The gains for FM are not that high, and it's an added cost. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Smurf said:

There's new processors coming out every year. If you want to save a bit of money then go for the processors that are new, like the i7-7xxx or i5-7xxx.

The i5 would be fine for FM and save you a few quid, which you can put towards your graphics card. If you play other games this will be vital. If not, then take the money from the graphics card and put it into the processor. 

 

It would be better to go for the newer processors - sure, they are better - faster? Yes in the multicore they are. But in single core you'll get roughly same experience. The gains for FM are not that high, and it's an added cost. 

 

Thanks for that information. But lastly what graphics card should I be looking for that would be good to watch the match on 3D viewing.

Edited by amer

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33 minutes ago, Smurf said:

that's what counts for FM, it's a single core processing at the moment.

Interesting, not that I was aware of.. What about GPU usage? As far as I know, GPU is also used outside of the matches too. But the game process surely is handled through CPU.

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Here’s a comparison of the i5 7th gen at £158. The i5 8th gen at £193.99 and the i7 8700k 8th gen £349.99

right so we know FM doesn’t use multi cores so Spending £193 on i5 8th gen and £350 on the i7 is £40 and and £190 more respectively..   but having a faster cache speed does improve FM, the i5 7th gen cache is 6mb, the i7 k  is 12mb cache .

i5 7400 7th gen 3GHz maximum on 4 cores and 4 threads 6Mb cache z270 maximum ram 2400mhz

i7 8700k 3.7Ghz out of the box can overclock on all 6 cores/12 threads at a stable 4.7Ghz - 5Ghz 12 Mb cache z370  3200mhz Ram +

the question is can you afford the extra money for the i7 and compatible MoBo if required for better performance.

so taking into account processor speed, cache Speed and Ram Speed the i7 is going to be faster than the i5 but it costs more.

playing FM on the i5 woukd be like driving a car capable of 100mph at say 70-80mph whilst   playing FM on i7 woukd be like driving a car at 100 mph on a car capable of 150+ mph. You can’t max out it’s full speed which is why people say the i7 is overkill or waste of money but it does performer better no one can argue that.

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7 minutes ago, amer said:

Thanks for that information. But lastly what graphics card should I be looking for that would be good to watch the match on 3D viewing.

Most mid-range will be more than enough. If you look up the model number most reviews will let you know.

 

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12 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

Here’s a comparison of the i5 7th gen at £158. The i5 8th gen at £193.99 and the i7 8700k 8th gen £349.99

right so we know FM doesn’t use multi cores so Spending £193 on i5 8th gen and £350 on the i7 is £40 and and £190 more respectively..   but having a faster cache speed does improve FM, the i5 7th gen cache is 6mb, the i7 k  is 12mb cache .

i5 7400 7th gen 3GHz maximum on 4 cores and 4 threads 6Mb cache z270 maximum ram 2400mhz

i7 8700k 3.7Ghz out of the box can overclock on all 6 cores/12 threads at a stable 4.7Ghz - 5Ghz 12 Mb cache z370  3200mhz Ram +

the question is can you afford the extra money for the i7 and compatible MoBo if required for better performance.

so taking into account processor speed, cache Speed and Ram Speed the i7 is going to be faster than the i5 but it costs more.

playing FM on the i5 woukd be like driving a car capable of 100mph at say 70-80mph whilst   playing FM on i7 woukd be like driving a car at 100 mph on a car capable of 150+ mph. You can’t max out it’s full speed which is why people say the i7 is overkill or waste of money but it does performer better no one can argue that.

Of course the i7 is better than the i5. And newer models are slightly better than older models. Of course that's true. 

But it's also true that the i5-7xxxhq is similar enough to the i7-7xxxhq - and comparing it to a 8700k is ridiculous, it's like comparing a BMW to a Ferrari. 

Both very good cars, one can go faster. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Of course the i7 is better than the i5. And newer models are slightly better than older models. Of course that's true. 

But it's also true that the i5-7xxxhq is similar enough to the i7-7xxxhq - and comparing it to a 8700k is ridiculous, it's like comparing a BMW to a Ferrari. 

Both very good cars, one can go faster. 

 

Can’t deny that how ever Depends what performance you want from a pc vs cost..  which is why I said it depends what you can afford and also said technically things evolve very fast.   Some of the low end cheap models haven’t got room for performance upgrades,   From personal experience I wouldn’t want to spend £600 today and have to keep spending 12 months later, I’d rather buy something that will last.  

I wouldn’t buy a pc barely over minimum spec to run FM but that’s just me 👍..   I’d rather pay more for a better model which will last longer all bar hardware failure.

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47 minutes ago, CalumJL32 said:

@Smurf would I need to buy a graphic card for the one you linked above. The Lenovo? 

No. It comes with it. It's a good graphics card! 

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45 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

Can’t deny that how ever Depends what performance you want from a pc vs cost..  which is why I said it depends what you can afford and also said technically things evolve very fast.   Some of the low end cheap models haven’t got room for performance upgrades,   From personal experience I wouldn’t want to spend £600 today and have to keep spending 12 months later, I’d rather buy something that will last.  

I wouldn’t buy a pc barely over minimum spec to run FM but that’s just me 👍..   I’d rather pay more for a better model which will last longer all bar hardware failure.

Yes, but not everyone can afford it. I wouldn't link to something that would be outdated in 2 years. 

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1 minute ago, Smurf said:

No. It comes with it. It's a good graphics card! 

Looks good then is there anything better for maybe 750 though? And what stats should I look at for monitors?

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Hello,  so I'm having a look for a new laptop wanting to play FM as well as some other more graphically intense games.  I'm looking at these two:

https://www.box.co.uk/FX503VM-EN184T-ASUS-FX503VM-EN184T_2315679.html

https://www.box.co.uk/FX504GE-E4031T-ASUS-FX504GE-E4031T-Gaming-Laptop_2318164.html

Would it be better to go for the 8th gen with a 1050ti over 7th gen with 1060? I really can't decide which to go for.

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26 minutes ago, CalumJL32 said:

Looks good then is there anything better for maybe 750 though? And what stats should I look at for monitors?

I'm not seeingn anything much better.

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16 minutes ago, priority76 said:

Hello,  so I'm having a look for a new laptop wanting to play FM as well as some other more graphically intense games.  I'm looking at these two:

https://www.box.co.uk/FX503VM-EN184T-ASUS-FX503VM-EN184T_2315679.html

https://www.box.co.uk/FX504GE-E4031T-ASUS-FX504GE-E4031T-Gaming-Laptop_2318164.html

Would it be better to go for the 8th gen with a 1050ti over 7th gen with 1060? I really can't decide which to go for.

Depends what you want - do you want higher graphics quality setting?

The gains in the processor difference is minimal. But is it worth the extra 50 quid for the other one? 

 

If you're happy enough with the graphics on mid-high settings, save 50 quid.

If you're good to spend an extra 50 for higher settings in graphics then go for it.

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29 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Yes, but not everyone can afford it. I wouldn't link to something that would be outdated in 2 years. 

Sorry bud, I wasn’t trying to suggest you recommend pc’s with user sell by dates 😳..   I was just explaining to the other guy why I think 8th gen is better than 7th..    Iv notices 90% of people requiring pc upgrade are people with low budgets..  the only thing I can’t make my mind up about is the GPU..    there’s so many and many of them do the same job..😐

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1 hour ago, Smurf said:

Depends what you want - do you want higher graphics quality setting?

The gains in the processor difference is minimal. But is it worth the extra 50 quid for the other one? 

 

If you're happy enough with the graphics on mid-high settings, save 50 quid.

If you're good to spend an extra 50 for higher settings in graphics then go for it.

Cool thanks,  looking around it seems the 1060 3gb is measurably better than the 1050ti and if the processor is not going to make much of difference for FM then the extra £50 will be worth it.  Also I've just noticed it has a 120hz screen which is another bonus.

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@Smurf would an 8th gen intel with a nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 2 GB graphics card be better than a 7th gen intel with the 3 GB 1060?

 

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19 hours ago, Smurf said:

What model processors? 16gb RAM is plenty, more RAM and SSD size won't improve anything.

ive got the i7 6700hq 2.60ghz. the only thing that interests me about the alien ware r5 is the fact i can use it for gaming on all sorts of games and play star citizen. but the main one ive always played is football manger as i own a cafe i can leave it on all day and play it when i get a spare secone :)

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20 minutes ago, CalumJL32 said:

@Smurf would an 8th gen intel with a nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 2 GB graphics card be better than a 7th gen intel with the 3 GB 1060?

 

It depends. Do you want faster graphics or faster processing.

If you want faster processing (more leagues/database size) then the 8th with (what model 8th gen are you talking about?) with the GTX 1050 2gb is better for you.

If you want better graphics, and don't mind processing (database/leagues etc) then the 7th gen intel with 1060 3gb is better (but it depends what 7th gen intel you are talking about?)

10 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

ive got the i7 6700hq 2.60ghz. the only thing that interests me about the alien ware r5 is the fact i can use it for gaming on all sorts of games and play star citizen. but the main one ive always played is football manger as i own a cafe i can leave it on all day and play it when i get a spare secone :)

Alienware are overpriced for what they are. But if you're happy to pay then go for it. I don't know what you're planning to spend or why but seems like you have made your mind up.

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