The Unofficially Official Training and Mentoring Guide

[Zinegod]

Hi! Just a quick question, when you say:

En 28/10/2018 a las 19:02, Rashidi dijo:

You can increase the intensity of training by either adjusting the programs and adding more intensive ones so that the daily training intensity breaches 100%. When this happens for example you will see the risk to injury, fatigue and condition go up.

I assume you mean that risk of injury and fatigue will go up and condition will go down, right?

[Seb Wassell]

16 hours ago, toffee71 said:

@Seb Wassell sorry to tag you Seb but, have asked this question in few topics, including this one, but can't seem to get an answer, and it is training related.

I'm training my widemen for the opposite side of the pitch to their preferred side, so when they become accomplished, I get the they need more playing time in new position message from coach, in my tactics the wide men are set to switch with each other, does this count towards playing time in new position?

Also what's the split when switching position, I'm guessing 60/40?

Switching position in match would be one for the ME team.

The position that is used most in the match (i.e. played for the most number of minutes) is the one that influences position training.

[Seb Wassell]

15 hours ago, costasrimini said:

A quick question on this. Do sessions with "Upcoming Match" impact have to be placed close to the game? If the next match is in 15 days will a "Penalty" session 10 days before the game have any impact?

It is the "next" match regardless of time.

[toffee71]

3 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

Switching position in match would be one for the ME team.

The position that is used most in the match (i.e. played for the most number of minutes) is the one that influences position training.

Thanks for that Seb, and in which forum would I ask the ME guys a question?

So if I'm understanding correctly start them in the postion they have learnt.

[alanschu14]

On 13/11/2018 at 05:42, Seb Wassell said:

Match Review is one of those marginal gains that managing training yourself can bring. The AM is great, but he can't do it all for you 

I do think there's a valid UX concern here though. Like the other poster, I had no idea it existed because I have never gone to set a training schedule on the day after (Recovery and two rests is fine 99% of the time) AND also happened to select tactics preparation category.

I wonder if it'd be better to show all possible training selections and just have ones that cannot be selected due to conditions be greyed out with a tooltip explaining why.

[alanschu14]

19 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

It is the "next" match regardless of time.

For context of discussing assorted strategies, just want to share with others that I figured this is probably the case and I have definitely created custom schedules for the week before a big game to get as many "Upcoming Match" buffs as I could. This type of flexibility is what I love about the new system as I figure that this system works for me in a clearer manner (I can even tweak the match preparation in a unique way depending on the opponent!)

Is this the "best" way to do things? I couldn't say! It's a compelling moment of short term vs long term that we only sort of got in the previous games and it's by far one of my favourite parts. Heck even just squeezing in a goaltending extra session on Monday evening seems to release some dopamine for me or something

[worduphomes]

What is the difference between the 'Recovery' training session and actually assigning your player to rest for the day?
Just wondering if it is possible to have normal training sessions in the other 2 available slots the day after a match and then set the players who played in the match to a day of rest...
That way, the other players who did not actually play in the match and are therefore not tired, could get the benefit of 2 extra training sessions... 

[alanschu14]

On 22/11/2018 at 09:34, worduphomes said:

What is the difference between the 'Recovery' training session and actually assigning your player to rest for the day?
Just wondering if it is possible to have normal training sessions in the other 2 available slots the day after a match and then set the players who played in the match to a day of rest...
That way, the other players who did not actually play in the match and are therefore not tired, could get the benefit of 2 extra training sessions... 

One way you could get this to work is to schedule stuff on the day after, but have reduced intensity if you have less condition on the Training->Rest page.

[zlatanera]

A question that perhaps belongs in the "stupid questions" thread arises from the description of this - does this have the same effect on sharpness as playing 90 minutes of a friendly? i.e. could I get my squad match fit by scheduling this session twice a week instead of playing friendlies?

[bangai]

On 17/11/2018 at 15:15, bozz14 said:

I apologize if this has been answered somewhere and I missed it, but my "Ask my Assistant to Assign" button on the mentoring screen is grayed out and I can't click on it no matter what settings I change. However, in a different save it works just fine. Would anyone happen to have any idea why I can't click it in one save but I can in another? Thanks so much.

Hi, did you find out why it is greyed out by any chance? As im having the same thing. I did see a message about not enough leaders in my team so I am wondering if that is why its greyed out? I tried assigning training etc to various staff to see if it changes but nope.

[bar333]

I'd really like to repeat 2 points for the training devs to look at which I think would be relatively easy but great QoL improvements -

A. Again, the Match Review. I get that you should get marginal benefits from handling training yourself but surely those benefits would be picking the best and most fitting training? There's no real reason why the AM wouldn't set Match Review automatically after games. But this isn't even an issue with the AM per se, even when handling training yourself Match Review is never slotted in automatically so you have to go and slot it in manually for every single game in your schedules. I'm not sure why this is the case when Match Preview is slotted in automatically. This is just unnecessary busywork and a lot of clicking. 

B. When the AM handles training, please make the confirmation popup not appear anymore after the first time when making changes to his schedules. Again, a lot of unnecessary clicking. 

Generally I love the new training a lot but the lack of any automation options are hurting it and making it difficult not to want to delegate it to my AssMan. Ideally we would have various options such as automatically slot in match preview\review, rest days before\after games, setting up schedules to run in a certain cycle, etc. So it's not heavy on the micro management. In the absence of that it'd be nice to at least get some of these QoL improvements so there's a happy medium between letting your AM take care of it fully and completely, and micro management hell.

[yonko]

4 hours ago, bar333 said:

I'd really like to repeat 2 points for the training devs to look at which I think would be relatively easy but great QoL improvements -

A. Again, the Match Review. I get that you should get marginal benefits from handling training yourself but surely those benefits would be picking the best and most fitting training? There's no real reason why the AM wouldn't set Match Review automatically after games. But this isn't even an issue with the AM per se, even when handling training yourself Match Review is never slotted in automatically so you have to go and slot it in manually for every single game in your schedules. I'm not sure why this is the case when Match Preview is slotted in automatically. This is just unnecessary busywork and a lot of clicking. 

B. When the AM handles training, please make the confirmation popup not appear anymore after the first time when making changes to his schedules. Again, a lot of unnecessary clicking. 

Generally I love the new training a lot but the lack of any automation options are hurting it and making it difficult not to want to delegate it to my AssMan. Ideally we would have various options such as automatically slot in match preview\review, rest days before\after games, setting up schedules to run in a certain cycle, etc. So it's not heavy on the micro management. In the absence of that it'd be nice to at least get some of these QoL improvements so there's a happy medium between letting your AM take care of it fully and completely, and micro management hell.

Match Review is not critical or key activity as Match Preview is.

I find it funny that people want to play this game with fewer clicks.

[bar333]

You find it funny that people value QoL? I hope you're not looking to get into software development if that concept is funny to you. Maybe share what is funny about it? Is going through each week's schedule and manually slotting in match review an enjoyable and integral part of the FM experience, in your opinion? 

[yonko]

4 hours ago, bar333 said:

You find it funny that people value QoL? I hope you're not looking to get into software development if that concept is funny to you. Maybe share what is funny about it? Is going through each week's schedule and manually slotting in match review an enjoyable and integral part of the FM experience, in your opinion? 

Fewer clicks means QoL to you? That's even funnier now.

Yes, I think going through the practice schedule each week is integral FM experience. That's what football managers do, you know. The game is not click manager.

There are many ways one can address/deal with that. You can set up custom schedules, you can set the trainings for months ahead of time and then adjust each week as it pops into your news inbox screen, etc. Or if you can't be bothered with it, just leave it to your assistant manager. Oh, but then you have to make an effort to hire a good one....that may be more clicks. Maybe you can try FM Touch, see if it's playable with less clicks.

How lazy are people getting that they can't be bothered with couple of extra clicks? C'mon now.....

[herne79]

Different people play the game in different ways regardless of how much clicking they do, and what bothers some people won't bother others.  Please respect that.

Edit:  @bar333 @yonko  I don't want to remove any more posts, so please stop the bickering now.

[DMATOS01]

I have doubts:
1 - The determination does not rise more like in fm18 when carrying out the tutoring?
2 - When creating the groups, should the leader have a higher level of determination than the others?
3 - How does personality change? I created the groups 5 months ago .. and I did not notice any changes.

[Codename47]

I have loaded up FM19 (my last FM was 2016).

Regarding mentoring.  I just watched a video tutorial.

My save is Tottenham and I decided to create a mentoring group.  I promoted Kyle Walker-Peters, Oliver Skipp and Tashan Oakley-Boothe to the Senior Squad.

However, when I go to add my players in, I cannot see the above three players in the list of selection ?

But, when I ''ask assistant to assign'' it assigns Danny Rose, Skipp, Walker-Peters and Davinson-Sanchez !

Incidentally, the tuturial video showed the OP promoting a 17 year old Man U player (Angel Gomes) and his was ok.

Please assist, many thanks.

PS - I should tell you that it is my very first day of the save, would this matter, maybe I need to click on continue then do it again ???

Edited December 2, 2018 by Codename47

[zlatanera]

1 hour ago, Codename47 said:

PS - I should tell you that it is my very first day of the save, would this matter, maybe I need to click on continue then do it again ???

Yes, you need to click continue once you've moved them.

Not sure if that's how its meant to work, but its how it does work.

[Codename47]

Thank you zlatanera,

I apologise, I should've of known better to simply click on continue.

Another question to everyone.

Having successfully created the mentoring groups, I have now noticed that in my first team squad that the game has generated those "greyed-out" ghost players.  It's rather annoying and I don't know why this has happened, anyone ???

[Seb Wassell]

On 29/11/2018 at 01:36, zlatanera said:

A question that perhaps belongs in the "stupid questions" thread arises from the description of this - does this have the same effect on sharpness as playing 90 minutes of a friendly? i.e. could I get my squad match fit by scheduling this session twice a week instead of playing friendlies?

No, matches have the largest affect on Sharpness by a significant amount (this should be evidenced by comparing a schedule with 0, 1 and 2 matches in).

[Seb Wassell]

On 29/11/2018 at 12:21, bar333 said:

I'd really like to repeat 2 points for the training devs to look at which I think would be relatively easy but great QoL improvements -

A. Again, the Match Review. I get that you should get marginal benefits from handling training yourself but surely those benefits would be picking the best and most fitting training? There's no real reason why the AM wouldn't set Match Review automatically after games. But this isn't even an issue with the AM per se, even when handling training yourself Match Review is never slotted in automatically so you have to go and slot it in manually for every single game in your schedules. I'm not sure why this is the case when Match Preview is slotted in automatically. This is just unnecessary busywork and a lot of clicking. 

B. When the AM handles training, please make the confirmation popup not appear anymore after the first time when making changes to his schedules. Again, a lot of unnecessary clicking. 

Generally I love the new training a lot but the lack of any automation options are hurting it and making it difficult not to want to delegate it to my AssMan. Ideally we would have various options such as automatically slot in match preview\review, rest days before\after games, setting up schedules to run in a certain cycle, etc. So it's not heavy on the micro management. In the absence of that it'd be nice to at least get some of these QoL improvements so there's a happy medium between letting your AM take care of it fully and completely, and micro management hell.

A. This is intended as one of the sessions that a manager taking control himself would benefit from. It's not game changing, but a marginal gain from investing time into training yourself. Match Preview is sufficient for training left to the AM.

B. You can take the AM off of training, he will still set schedules up in advance but you can then tweak as you see fit without the pop-up. Will look into when the AM is left in charge for future versions.

[DMATOS01]

Em 30/11/2018 em 13:37, DMATOS01 disse:

I have doubts:
1 - The determination does not rise more like in fm18 when carrying out the tutoring?
2 - When creating the groups, should the leader have a higher level of determination than the others?
3 - How does personality change? I created the groups 5 months ago .. and I did not notice any changes.

Can someone answer? please

[zlatanera]

3 hours ago, DMATOS01 said:

Can someone answer? please

1. Sometimes

2. Up to you. If the leader has lower Det but a better personality (i.e. Model Professional with only 12 Det) do you want to pass on his personality at the expense of some Det?

3. https://youtu.be/QJHUbtR0yI8

 

[haagendasz]

A small question about determination if somebody cares to answer please ...

I have a couple of high determination U18 youngsters (above 16). Then I got this messages that squad less desirable traits affected them and they dropped 1 point of determination. My team traits is very determined, they got high scores in training and improved their attributes so how to eliminate the less desirable traits ?

Also I have Matthijs De Ligt as my CD and I had David De Gea to welcomed him after signing, now he dropped 1 determination point to 16 even though DDG has 17, there were no messages about less desirable traits affecting De Ligt.

[zlatanera]

22 hours ago, haagendasz said:

A small question about determination if somebody cares to answer please ...

I have a couple of high determination U18 youngsters (above 16). Then I got this messages that squad less desirable traits affected them and they dropped 1 point of determination. My team traits is very determined, they got high scores in training and improved their attributes so how to eliminate the less desirable traits ?

Also I have Matthijs De Ligt as my CD and I had David De Gea to welcomed him after signing, now he dropped 1 determination point to 16 even though DDG has 17, there were no messages about less desirable traits affecting De Ligt.

Squad Personality that you can see is usually only the first team. If they're in the u18s they'll be affected by that squad. 

Have you had a message about the effect of the welcoming period yet? It could be that De Gea is passing on other positive aspects of his personality and the determination falling is due to that.

Edited December 4, 2018 by zlatanera

[bar333]

Has anyone noticed PPM's being learned by players seemingly on their own? It's something I've seen a couple of times now. One midfielder I suddenly noticed has the 'Dictates Tempo' trait, another attacker suddenly picked up 'Knocks ball past opponent' and 'Places shots'. The players in question were not involved in any mentoring groups. Am I hallucinating this or does it actually happen? Obviously I'm in charge of training so it's not my AM doing this. 

Also a point on player development, I have a 23 year old striker who's attributes have all declined seemingly without any notice. No red arrows, nothing, I just go to his profile and realize a lot of attributes went down. What's with that?

I'm on the public beta if it makes a difference. 

Also a point on PPM's if I may - I find them far too difficult to untrain, and when I say far too difficult I actually mean impossible in, say, 9 times out of 10. I'm in my 5th season, in that time I have tried to untrain probably 8-9 PPM's, each and every single time I was told by the coach that it's a bad idea "because he has good X" (why does a player having a good first touch mean that I can't untrain him coming deep to get the ball?), the only trait removal that I've ever seen approved by my coach so far is "Dives Into Tackles" on a player with very poor tackling. I always ignore what the coaches say and do it anyway but typically if they say it'll fail, it fails.

My biggest regret so far by far is disabling the IGE on this save, in my next save I will enable it and use it to remove PPMs when I inevitably get the report from my coach saying it didn't work, I'll just pretend that it did because it makes no sense that it'd be borderline impossible like this. When it comes to training new traits I haven't had any issues.

Edited December 6, 2018 by bar333

[alanschu14]

21 hours ago, bar333 said:

No red arrows, nothing, I just go to his profile and realize a lot of attributes went down. What's with that?

Possible that for (some reason....) you just missed the moment where there's some red downward arrows?

I find it happens from time to time (not sure the why) but typically it isn't an issue. Check out the attribute changes page and see if it was extreme or anything. If so, may have been hit by a bug.

[bar333]

On 06/12/2018 at 12:37, bar333 said:

Has anyone noticed PPM's being learned by players seemingly on their own? It's something I've seen a couple of times now. One midfielder I suddenly noticed has the 'Dictates Tempo' trait, another attacker suddenly picked up 'Knocks ball past opponent' and 'Places shots'. The players in question were not involved in any mentoring groups. Am I hallucinating this or does it actually happen? Obviously I'm in charge of training so it's not my AM doing this. 

 

Not hallucinating, I've just confirmed this without a shadow of doubt, a player from out of nowhere has picked up "Looks for Pass rather than attempting to score". Now what's the bet it's just as impossible to get rid of as any other trait? 

Can anyone from SI comment on this? Is this a bug or intended behavior? @Seb Wassell?

I've noticed that the traits being "learned" tend to be the same ones, possibly the ones that other players in the same position have, almost as if they are in the same mentoring group - but they aren't and never were! I don't have a big enough sample size to say for sure that this is the case.

Edited December 7, 2018 by bar333

[fmFutbolManager]

19 minutes ago, bar333 said:

Not hallucinating, I've just confirmed this without a shadow of doubt, a player from out of nowhere has picked up "Looks for Pass rather than attempting to score". Now what's the bet it's just as impossible to get rid of as any other trait? 

Can anyone from SI comment on this? Is this a bug or intended behavior? @Seb Wassell?

I've noticed that the traits being "learned" tend to be the same ones, possibly the ones that other players in the same position have, almost as if they are in the same mentoring group - but they aren't and never were! I don't have a big enough sample size to say for sure that this is the case.

IRL do you think players pick up traits when they develop their style at clubs and learn from players around them?

[bar333]

No, not when they're established players. And if they are, it is with a certain degree of context. Why would my 24 year old perfectly established attacking midfielder decide to "learn" to look for a pass rather than scoring from my defensive midfielder who's a completely different player with a completely different role in the team? This professional footballer can't figure out that they're different players?

I mean how far do you take this? One midfielder prefers to pass rather than score, does it then make sense that theoretically all of your midfielders could "learn" that? Then, who exactly will score? A professional top tier club can't have a goalscoring midfielder playing alongside a defensive minded one without one of them going "hmm, I want to be more like him"? And the manager has zero input in all of this?

There's no point really discussing this anyway without anyone from SI even having confirmed that this is intended. Way I see it what you're talking about is mentoring groups, but you have full control over them as it should be.

Edited December 7, 2018 by bar333

[fmFutbolManager]

29 minutes ago, bar333 said:

No, not when they're established players. And if they are, it is with a certain degree of context. Why would my 24 year old perfectly established attacking midfielder decide to "learn" to look for a pass rather than scoring from my defensive midfielder who's a completely different player with a completely different role in the team? This professional footballer can't figure out that they're different players?

I mean how far do you take this? One midfielder prefers to pass rather than score, does it then make sense that theoretically all of your midfielders could "learn" that? Then, who exactly will score? A professional top tier club can't have a goalscoring midfielder playing alongside a defensive minded one without one of them going "hmm, I want to be more like him"? And the manager has zero input in all of this?

There's no point really discussing this anyway without anyone from SI even having confirmed that this is intended. Way I see it what you're talking about is mentoring groups, but you have full control over them as it should be.

So you don't think as players mature they become less selfish? You don't think as younger players realise it's more about the team than themselves, they don't start looking for players in better positions than themselves when attacking? Interesting...

Also, player traits do not determine that players will always take this course of action. They will not always look for a pass. When they're one-on-one they will shoot, when they have a clear chance, they will shoot.

[bar333]

As with all traits this trait isn't an objectively good trait and I have no idea why you are treating it as such. It will do exactly what it says on the tin - make the player look for a pass rather than a goal more often. It's "Looks for Pass Rather than attempting to score", not "Looks for pass rather than attempting to score if a teammate is in a better position". If you think this is objectively good, give it to all your attacking players and see how you fare. As with all PPM's it is a question of the player's role in the team as well as his attributes. Everything you're talking about would be seen as an improvement in the Teamwork attribute, not by picking up this trait. 

All of which is besides the point because even if you believe it is objectively good, that doesn't really mean anything since that is not the only trait that might be passed around is it? Should a player with no dribbling skill start to dribble more because his teammate does it? Is that "mature" of him? Should a playmaker start playing short simple passes because his DM buddy does it? Should a quick, 1.70cm striker start playing with his back to goal because his backup striker does it?

While I love a good discussion I will stop here because I haven't even seen it confirmed anywhere that this is intended behavior as I said. If and when that happens this'll be a good discussion to have.

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by bar333

[fmFutbolManager]

2 minutes ago, bar333 said:

As with all traits this trait isn't an objectively good trait and I have no idea why you are treating it as such. It will do exactly what it says on the tin - make the player look for a pass rather than a goal more often. It's "Looks for Pass Rather than attempting to score", not "Looks for pass rather than attempting to score if a teammate is in a better position". If you think this is objectively good, give it to all your attacking players and see how you fare. As with all PPM's it is a question of the player's role in the team as well as his attributes. Everything you're talking about would be seen as an improvement in the Teamwork attribute, not by picking up this trait. 

All of which is besides the point because even if you believe it is objectively good, that doesn't really mean anything since that is not the only trait that might be passed around is it? Should a player with no dribbling skill start to dribble more because his teammate does it? Is that "mature" of him? Should a playmaker start playing short simple passes because his DM buddy does it? Should a quick, 1.70cm striker start playing with his back to goal because his backup striker does it?

While I love a good discussion I will stop here because I haven't even seen it confirmed anywhere that this is intended behavior as I said. If and when that happens this'll be a good discussion to have.

 

Firstly, you cannot say that objectively it's bad. You think it's bad. That doesn't make it objectively bad.

I give it to my players who have less than desirable finishing and composure. Players like wingers who will shoot from wide angles or attacking midfielders who have great vision and technique but poor finishing. I would want them to pass it to someone else rather than screwing up yet another chance.

So I disagree there. Either way, wither this is confirmed as a bug or whether it is intentional, I believe it is a good thing. Players change over time. Look at Ronaldo at United. He would always dribble, always take a man on, always shoot. He was selfish and unproductive. He changed. You could argue that this was coached, you could argue that as he matured he understood the importance of the result over personal gain.

Many other players have changed their game for the better as they got older. As the stopped playing certain ways and developed new ways of playing.

Anyway, let's see what SI say, but I like that players can pick up new traits on their own. For good or bad. Just as a players development can halt and they don't become as good as I hoped, I like that this could be a feature.

Management isn't all roses. It's not robotic and it isn't put this in and get this out. There are surprises and there are things you have to deal with. 

 

[bar333]

I never said it's objectively bad, I said that as always it depends on the player's role and attributes. As you yourself say you'd give it to bad finishers. The player in question is a good finisher (for a midfielder) and is an attacking midfielder who is expected to be the main source of goals from midfield. He is a goalscorer.

Players indeed mature but that is represented by a variety of mental attributes in-game, not PPM's. Ronaldo maturing would be seen in FM as an increase to his Decisions, Teamwork etc attributes. He still remained a dribbler and a goalscorer, he was just better at deciding when to do that and when not to as well as becoming less selfish as you say. Not to mention that by his own admission he was shaped into this more mature version by Ferguson - I would in fact argue that most cases of a player changing is due to coaching.

Overall I feel the game has taken enough out of the player's hands without something like this on top of it, it's been a trend for a couple of years in FM now, some of it is welcome and some less so. It's enough that getting rid of PPM's is so notoriously impossible without players deciding to learn new PPM's of their own accord - especially when the AI's logic in FM is clearly nowhere near good enough to be trusted with this. Ultimately context is everything though - I wouldn't be completely opposed to players learning PPM's on their own provided there is context for it which makes sense, perhaps tie it to the roles the player plays. So if someone who isn't a traditional playmaker plays for 6 months as a advanced playmaker and is asked to take more risks, he might develop complementary traits such as 'Tries Killer Balls' etc. That would make sense and that would be a good feature if implemented well. But no one wants their striker to suddenly decide to start diving into tackles for no apparent reason.

Edited December 7, 2018 by bar333

[alanschu14]

In principle I actually don't mind if players developed traits on their own (I play basketball and am definitely a pass first player and no coach or fellow teammate overtly imposed that upon me). I'm not sure what the algorithm for this would be though.

I'd agree though that it'd be useful to have some degrees of confidence. I *suspect* that a player wouldn't necessarily develop habits that are terrible (I shoot whenever and I have a finishing of 2).

Would be interesting if success (or failure?) on the pitch would impact it. Like a player with subpar personality scoring a sequence of goals and getting adulation for it becomes more inclined to shoot. Would be pretty complex and still come across as random though.

[bar333]

The player in question has now picked up a second new trait - Knocks ball past opponent. 

This confirms that traits are unknowingly being passed around between teammates in the same position as both traits come from my DM who is also the captain and team leader. 

The DM in question is in a mentoring group with two young players and no one else, the player who picked up the traits has never been in any mentoring group. 

I've never heard of this being a thing so hopefully SI devs give us an answer after the weekend, looks like a bug to me. 

[Rashidi]

10 hours ago, bar333 said:

The player in question has now picked up a second new trait - Knocks ball past opponent. 

This confirms that traits are unknowingly being passed around between teammates in the same position as both traits come from my DM who is also the captain and team leader. 

The DM in question is in a mentoring group with two young players and no one else, the player who picked up the traits has never been in any mentoring group. 

I've never heard of this being a thing so hopefully SI devs give us an answer after the weekend, looks like a bug to me. 

If you think its a bug i hope you posted it in the bugs forum, with your save game

[Fritz13]

My first team squad is for example 22-25 players.

i have 8-10 reserves who have potential so worthwhile to mentor but I’m thinking promoting all of them to allow mentoring will have a negative effect on the main squad and/or the promoted group - less playing time for promoted group (even if I can make available still for U23s) or coaches overworked etc.

 Is that right?

The alternative might be to promote a few at a time until the mentoring has passed on the traits etc then demote back to U23s  and promote another small group to replace them.

Has anyone seen anything good/bad when promoting larger groups of young players for mentoring - maybe 10-15+ at once?

[yonko]

On 09/12/2018 at 10:11, Fritz13 said:

My first team squad is for example 22-25 players.

i have 8-10 reserves who have potential so worthwhile to mentor but I’m thinking promoting all of them to allow mentoring will have a negative effect on the main squad and/or the promoted group - less playing time for promoted group (even if I can make available still for U23s) or coaches overworked etc.

 Is that right?

The alternative might be to promote a few at a time until the mentoring has passed on the traits etc then demote back to U23s  and promote another small group to replace them.

Has anyone seen anything good/bad when promoting larger groups of young players for mentoring - maybe 10-15+ at once?

I wouldn't promote so many at once. It's too many to work on their development at the same time. Pick a few and then maybe loan the rest. When picking consider age, PA and current attributes.

- Age - an 18 year old can wait 6 months (being on loan or waiting in reserves), while a 20 year old doesn't have time to wait

- PA - obviously the higher the better but you have to see how much difference he has compared to his CA because that will indicate to you how much he can gain

- attributes - can he contribute to your team based on current attributes and how far off are they from the level they should or could be

Personally I like to work with 22-23 man squad, which includes no more than 4-5 young prospects, but usually it's actually around 3 of them. 

[Seb Wassell]

On 07/12/2018 at 20:31, bar333 said:

Not hallucinating, I've just confirmed this without a shadow of doubt, a player from out of nowhere has picked up "Looks for Pass rather than attempting to score". Now what's the bet it's just as impossible to get rid of as any other trait? 

Can anyone from SI comment on this? Is this a bug or intended behavior? @Seb Wassell?

I've noticed that the traits being "learned" tend to be the same ones, possibly the ones that other players in the same position have, almost as if they are in the same mentoring group - but they aren't and never were! I don't have a big enough sample size to say for sure that this is the case.

Could you post me a thread in here please - https://community.sigames.com/forum/663-training-and-medical-centre/ - and we'll take a look into it for you.

[bar333]

@Seb Wassell I assume it's not intended then, I'll definitely post a thread then. As I said though I'm on the public beta although I think (think, not sure) that I was seeing this before opting in as well. Should I post in your link or on the beta bugs forum?

[Seb Wassell]

4 minutes ago, bar333 said:

@Seb Wassell I assume it's not intended then, I'll definitely post a thread then. As I said though I'm on the public beta although I think (think, not sure) that I was seeing this before opting in as well. Should I post in your link or on the beta bugs forum?

I'd like to look into it before being able to confirm if it is working as intended or not. Either forum is fine. Could you grab me a save to accompany your report please, ideally just before it occurs. Cheers.

[Novem9]

Is there hotkey to change any training slot to 'rest'?

[Fritz13]

On 11/12/2018 at 08:40, yonko said:

I wouldn't promote so many at once. It's too many to work on their development at the same time. Pick a few and then maybe loan the rest. When picking consider age, PA and current attributes.

- Age - an 18 year old can wait 6 months (being on loan or waiting in reserves), while a 20 year old doesn't have time to wait

- PA - obviously the higher the better but you have to see how much difference he has compared to his CA because that will indicate to you how much he can gain

- attributes - can he contribute to your team based on current attributes and how far off are they from the level they should or could be

Personally I like to work with 22-23 man squad, which includes no more than 4-5 young prospects, but usually it's actually around 3 of them. 

Cheers 

[arsenal3459]

@Seb Wassell @Rashidi

really appreciate this work to help us fm players understand the changes to the training.  it's a big help!

sounds as though there's no perfectly calculated way to get your squad primed for the season/developed to perfection, which is really refreshing.

i'm trying to create a side that can press with a high line while being disciplined enough to not let direct balls beat us over the top.  in the attacking sense i want to retain the ball while also being ready to play quickly/directly if our transitional play allows it.

tactics-wise i'm pretty confident in my ability to set up this style of play.

but was hoping to get y'all's advice on whether my training setup would be anywhere near this idea.

this is the first month of preseason work that i've setup so far:

 

[Rashidi]

On 08/12/2018 at 06:07, bar333 said:

I never said it's objectively bad, I said that as always it depends on the player's role and attributes. As you yourself say you'd give it to bad finishers. The player in question is a good finisher (for a midfielder) and is an attacking midfielder who is expected to be the main source of goals from midfield. He is a goalscorer.

Players indeed mature but that is represented by a variety of mental attributes in-game, not PPM's. Ronaldo maturing would be seen in FM as an increase to his Decisions, Teamwork etc attributes. He still remained a dribbler and a goalscorer, he was just better at deciding when to do that and when not to as well as becoming less selfish as you say. Not to mention that by his own admission he was shaped into this more mature version by Ferguson - I would in fact argue that most cases of a player changing is due to coaching.

Overall I feel the game has taken enough out of the player's hands without something like this on top of it, it's been a trend for a couple of years in FM now, some of it is welcome and some less so. It's enough that getting rid of PPM's is so notoriously impossible without players deciding to learn new PPM's of their own accord - especially when the AI's logic in FM is clearly nowhere near good enough to be trusted with this. Ultimately context is everything though - I wouldn't be completely opposed to players learning PPM's on their own provided there is context for it which makes sense, perhaps tie it to the roles the player plays. So if someone who isn't a traditional playmaker plays for 6 months as a advanced playmaker and is asked to take more risks, he might develop complementary traits such as 'Tries Killer Balls' etc. That would make sense and that would be a good feature if implemented well. But no one wants their striker to suddenly decide to start diving into tackles for no apparent reason.

This is not a features request thread.

[Rashidi]

9 hours ago, arsenal3459 said:

@Seb Wassell @Rashidi

really appreciate this work to help us fm players understand the changes to the training.  it's a big help!

sounds as though there's no perfectly calculated way to get your squad primed for the season/developed to perfection, which is really refreshing.

i'm trying to create a side that can press with a high line while being disciplined enough to not let direct balls beat us over the top.  in the attacking sense i want to retain the ball while also being ready to play quickly/directly if our transitional play allows it.

tactics-wise i'm pretty confident in my ability to set up this style of play.

but was hoping to get y'all's advice on whether my training setup would be anywhere near this idea.

this is the first month of preseason work that i've setup so far:

 

If you know what you need tactically to achieve this, then you will probably know which attributes are more valuable for which duties.

I play the same way but my training schedule is very different. To get it working for you, you need to identify which attributes are important then set the schedule up valuing those. Then you may be ok. I see a lot of match tactics session which may be good in preseason but I would never use them at other times.

[bar333]

6 hours ago, Rashidi said:

This is not a features request thread.

This wasn't a feature request though, just a discussion.

And if anyone's wondering, SI staff have said to me in the Bugs forum that it is apparently intended behavior, players will pick up traits from other players even outside of mentoring groups. I don't really like this and don't think it makes a ton of sense, but there it is.

Edited December 15, 2018 by bar333

[herne79]

1 hour ago, bar333 said:

This wasn't a feature request though, just a discussion.

And if anyone's wondering, SI staff have said to me in the Bugs forum that it is apparently intended behavior, players will pick up traits from other players even outside of mentoring groups. I don't really like this and don't think it makes a ton of sense, but there it is.

TBH this is a reason why I use the IGE.  Whether or not it's realistic that Traits can be passed on randomly either inside or outside Mentoring groups, it's simply something I don't personally like, so if it happens I'll edit it out.

Probably something for a feedback / discussion thread rather than this guide thread though.

[Fritz13]

Quick question about mentoring and learning new player traits

if a player is learning a new trait via individual training will this have an adverse effect if he is also trying to pick up multiple traits via a mentoring group?

Will the single learning block/delay him inheriting multiple?