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Rashidi

FM2019 - The Unofficially Official Training and Mentoring Guide

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Question on mentoring. Having read your explanation I have put three groups together re def/mid/att. However, what I do not fully understand is which of the players in those groups will lead the mentoring. Is it the player who has the best hierarchical position within that group or the oldest or is it as you refer to they all mentor each other?

Probably in your explanation but advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

 

ps the training is coming together after reading your guide. making more sense as I progress through the season. A thank you to you and Seb - ll helps to enrich the game.

Edited by Kazza

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You are looking to see who has the most influence on the group. Now group size also can play a part.  When in doubt ask assman to do, he's perfect for the job, almost always perfect

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2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

You are looking to see who has the most influence on the group. Now group size also can play a part.  When in doubt ask assman to do, he's perfect for the job, almost always perfect

Can assman do three groups. I tried last time, created three groups  and  when I asked him to assign he got rid of two of the groups? Is that normal or a potential bug or is it he only sees the need to have one mentoring group?

Edited by Kazza

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7 hours ago, Kazza said:

Can assman do three groups. I tried last time, created three groups  and  when I asked him to assign he got rid of two of the groups? Is that normal or a potential bug or is it he only sees the need to have one mentoring group?

Probably working as intended as mine created 5 groups...

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I'm gonna be honest, this new training system is scarying the **** out of me. I'm a guy that takes proud about making everything by myself, but I just cant at this moment. I will try to do things at my own pace, but it's a little abstract how to do things. Before was just physical trainings, tactial cohesion and all year long tactics or ball control, now we have blocks and blocks. Gotta learn.

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This is gold. Thank you so much to all of you involved in creating this.

I enjoy FM, but I'm not particularly good at it. The training element this year overwhelmed me, but seeing as I love the development side of things, I knew I needed to get involved with it.

I have a couple of questions...

In the weeks where there are two, maybe three games - is it safe to say that player development will take a back seat as a  result of needing to rest players sufficiently?

The next 3 weeks of my calendar will explain perfectly what I mean. 

One game a week allows me to focus on a fair bit through the week. General, Unit & Specific ... whereas two games a week that goes out of the window and it seems focus is on the match days and rest/recovery. Is this right? Can I afford to experiment some more with the days before & after a match?

How is it possible to tell if you're just not "getting this right"? What I've got on there makes sense to me, and so I'm happy to continue with it - with some chopping and changing here and there.

That's all I have for now

Thanks :)

 

 

 

1.jpg

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Hi all,

Question in regards to mentoring. In previous versions when asking one player to tutor another, you had two options to choose from - one meant the tutee would potentially inherit some of the tutors PPM's, and the other meant they would not. With the mentoring units now, is it possible to discern this? For example if I have a model citizen personality in my squad, but he plays as deep lying playmaker so has the PPM "comes deep to get ball", and I add a young player into that mentoring group who I am planning on playing as say a Mezalla on attack duty and that PPM does not suit the way I want him to play, how am I able to ensure the personality rubs off on the younger player, but not the PPM? 

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5 hours ago, timbo1983 said:

Hi all,

Question in regards to mentoring. In previous versions when asking one player to tutor another, you had two options to choose from - one meant the tutee would potentially inherit some of the tutors PPM's, and the other meant they would not. With the mentoring units now, is it possible to discern this? For example if I have a model citizen personality in my squad, but he plays as deep lying playmaker so has the PPM "comes deep to get ball", and I add a young player into that mentoring group who I am planning on playing as say a Mezalla on attack duty and that PPM does not suit the way I want him to play, how am I able to ensure the personality rubs off on the younger player, but not the PPM? 

Pretty sure there’s a chance it’s all passed in. Doesn’t mean it will, though. 

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5 hours ago, timbo1983 said:

Hi all,

Question in regards to mentoring. In previous versions when asking one player to tutor another, you had two options to choose from - one meant the tutee would potentially inherit some of the tutors PPM's, and the other meant they would not. With the mentoring units now, is it possible to discern this? For example if I have a model citizen personality in my squad, but he plays as deep lying playmaker so has the PPM "comes deep to get ball", and I add a young player into that mentoring group who I am planning on playing as say a Mezalla on attack duty and that PPM does not suit the way I want him to play, how am I able to ensure the personality rubs off on the younger player, but not the PPM? 

You can't ensure anything in mentoring, you can increase the odds by choosing the right combination of players based on club hierarchy, position played etc. At the end of the day, you want to make sure that as many of those conditions are met. Even then it is not guaranteed, which is a great improvement from previous editions of FM which makes mentoring less exploitative.

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34 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

You can't ensure anything in mentoring, you can increase the odds by choosing the right combination of players based on club hierarchy, position played etc. At the end of the day, you want to make sure that as many of those conditions are met. Even then it is not guaranteed, which is a great improvement from previous editions of FM which makes mentoring less exploitative.

Hi Rashidi,

Thanks for the reply. I'm halfway through my second season and am enjoying the mentoring. I am actually having great success with player personalities, more than I did using tutoring in previous versions. My concern is I bought a young central midfielder who had no PPM's, and somehow he has developed 3, one of which is "comes deep to get ball" which none of the players in his mentoring group have. So if I am reading your response correctly, the mentoring is totally random and there is no way to tell what the results will be. So by increasing someone's personality, I run the risk of them picking up PPM's that are adverse to how I want them to play? If that is true would I not be better off doing no mentoring and trusting my squads general character to affect personality, and just have young players learn the PPM's I want them to have?

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1 hour ago, timbo1983 said:

Hi Rashidi,

Thanks for the reply. I'm halfway through my second season and am enjoying the mentoring. I am actually having great success with player personalities, more than I did using tutoring in previous versions. My concern is I bought a young central midfielder who had no PPM's, and somehow he has developed 3, one of which is "comes deep to get ball" which none of the players in his mentoring group have. So if I am reading your response correctly, the mentoring is totally random and there is no way to tell what the results will be. So by increasing someone's personality, I run the risk of them picking up PPM's that are adverse to how I want them to play? If that is true would I not be better off doing no mentoring and trusting my squads general character to affect personality, and just have young players learn the PPM's I want them to have?

Personally when it comes to mentoring I just aim for personalities and pray that I don't get too many player traits, which is why I am very careful with this

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Hi, does anyone know why determination is going down for some players? I've put them in mentoring blocks and this is what it looks like. Is it affected by determination of a player being mentored is lower than the mentor's? This is how it worked in older version when tutoring.

Bez názvu.png

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2 hours ago, daho said:

Hi, does anyone know why determination is going down for some players? I've put them in mentoring blocks and this is what it looks like. Is it affected by determination of a player being mentored is lower than the mentor's? This is how it worked in older version when tutoring.

Bez názvu.png

It could be because of mentoring. It could be down to the overall squad personality or it could be because of the social groups the players are in. All three of those things will have a direct impact on personality attributes and its possible they can be altered by these methods. 

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I really don't like the fact that we have no control over the PPMs when mentoring players. They are so important to the way I want to play.

Can player improve personality without mentoring? Just by having a more professional and/or ambitious squad? Btw, I assume that professionalism and ambition are still the two most important hidden attributes for player developing. Determination is more important in terms of how they react to adversity in matches and match performances.

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10 minutes ago, yonko said:

I really don't like the fact that we have no control over the PPMs when mentoring players. They are so important to the way I want to play.

Can player improve personality without mentoring? Just by having a more professional and/or ambitious squad? Btw, I assume that professionalism and ambition are still the two most important hidden attributes for player developing. Determination is more important in terms of how they react to adversity in matches and match performances.

Ambition and professionalism are a part of developing players but only part. The things I mentioned in the reply above before this one, can still impact personality without mentoring.

You do still have control over PPM's if that's what you want. Just put players who share the same positions in the same mentoring group and then you have a better chance of them being passed on, if the player has influence over the group.

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2 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Ambition and professionalism are a part of developing players but only part. The things I mentioned in the reply above before this one, can still impact personality without mentoring.

You do still have control over PPM's if that's what you want. Just put players who share the same positions in the same mentoring group and then you have a better chance of them being passed on, if the player has influence over the group.

Sorry, I hadn't read your reply before my post.

I'm always looking to put players who play similar positions in the same group because chances are that the leader of the group would have PPMs I want passed on. But that is not always the case. For example, at Barca I want Messi to mentor Dembele and Malcom. But I don't want his PPMs to transfer to either of these players - specifically, dictates tempo, comes deep, switch ball to other flank and tries killer balls often. Another example, I don't want Countinho's PPM shoots often to transfer to Arthur or Alena. 

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2 minutes ago, yonko said:

Sorry, I hadn't read your reply before my post.

I'm always looking to put players who play similar positions in the same group because chances are that the leader of the group would have PPMs I want passed on. But that is not always the case. For example, at Barca I want Messi to mentor Dembele and Malcom. But I don't want his PPMs to transfer to either of these players - specifically, dictates tempo, comes deep, switch ball to other flank and tries killer balls often. Another example, I don't want Countinho's PPM shoots often to transfer to Arthur or Alena. 

I like this though, as it means we have to think more about who we pair together and think about it more realistically. It's good that we have drawbacks and it's not just a case of putting random players in a unit and leaving it without any thought process behind it.

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1 minute ago, Cleon said:

I like this though, as it means we have to think more about who we pair together and think about it more realistically. It's good that we have drawbacks and it's not just a case of putting random players in a unit and leaving it without any thought process behind it.

Yeah, just what I need...more thinking. My brain is on overload mode with all the training module changes, tactics and now mentoring & PPMs. Plus I got real life trainings for kids to think about. I need a clone.:D

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Apologies if this has been clearly laid out elsewhere but I'm still fuzzy on the individual training (specifically position/role/duty).

 

I rarely have a clear "this is how I want to play" vision. I tend to look at the club, see what my players are capable of and design a tactic around that.

 

What I'm unclear on with individual training:

 

1) I tend to vary my roles/duties based on who is available for a match; a versatile player could end up all over the pitch over the course of the season, or in the same position with different roles/duties. If a player is just left on "Playing Position", do the attributes they train change based on which role/duty they are using in matches? Or does "Playing Position" just do generic training for their "Natural" position(s)? Or generic training for the position they last played (without regard to role or duty they played)?

 

2) If I specify Position/Role/Duty training for a player, is that the position/role/duty they will "expect" to play (as in, it will reduce their performance level if I train them for a specific role/duty and don't actually play them there in match)? My understanding was that the role training before was basically just a way to focus training on specific attributes so I tended to train players in roles that built up their weaknesses even if I had no intention of playing them in that role. It would be more realistic of course if the role they trained in was what i was planning to do with them but just wondering how that worked now. Given that position retraining is now combined with role/duty, I get the feeling that I should only pick specific position/role/duty for a player if that is where I intend to play them but would love confirmation on that.

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17 hours ago, Cleon said:

 It could be because of mentoring. It could be down to the overall squad personality or it could be because of the social groups the players are in. All three of those things will have a direct impact on personality attributes and its possible they can be altered by these methods. 

What would be your approach on how to form these blocks? Do you put players together from same social group? or same nationality? Similar personality?

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1 minute ago, daho said:

What would be your approach on how to form these blocks? Do you put players together from same social group? or same nationality? Similar personality?

That's the beauty of FM19 compared to previous versions, you can approach it many different ways and neither way would be 'wrong'. It all comes down to what you want and how you go about achieving it that is important and not how someone else does it.

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It's so tough for people when there is no set successful formula anymore. No easy button. Many different ways now. Choices, choices.......

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I like a lot of the mentoring, It's something I spent a lot of time tweaking - As has been said - the assistant manager does a good job of this.

I had lot of dead wood to clear out, and a LOT of players i brought in (I was ridiculously lucky with Newgen recruitment, so 20+ players in). It's improved a lot of them in general, and a my youth\U23 teams are significantly stronger for it.

the one thing I'm wondering - It's lead to a few too many runs with ball PPM's being transferred. This was in my MC group i had created. Now, most i'd like to not do that, to hold position.  So is it possible to A) unlearn this trait (I know i can ask, and will when i'm at home tonight), but just as importantly - B) NOT have the player learn this 

the players in question are still developing, so it's actually beneficial to be in that group for the time being

Edited by plcarlos
missed a bit...

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On 06/11/2018 at 09:44, Rashidi said:

Now group size also can play a part.

Is that documented anywhere and if so is there a point of diminishing returns on group size? e.g. more than 1 mentor in a group allows  n+1 pupils.

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Random/stupid question on Mentoring: if I have a player learning a new trait via individual training and I put him in a mentoring group can he still learn (or pass in case he's a mentor) other new traits via mentoring at the same time?

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Unhappy players have always been a feature of every game. If they are developing in the direction you want, then it is not an issue. I do pay attention when they complain about the quality though.

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Hi,

I have 10 players always unhappy with the train. Generel they request more quickness and I have give them individual focus in Quickness, but without any improve.

 

Any idea how can i manage, so they are happy?

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The thing with training is, you can't please everyone and have them all happy. It's a balancing act and down to you as the manager how you deal with it. 

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I signed a DM and was expecting my experienced DM to be available for the “welcome to the club” option.

Instead it was my DC and current captain who was offered.

Does anyone know what the validation is in terms of which player is offered to perform the welcome duties.

Is it simply linked to the team leader group in the first instance?

Edited by Fritz13

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@Rashidi

Players being unhappy with training, is that a bug? Whenever my player wants quickness, I assign them quickness, but then they want strength, so I assign them strength & then it switches back to quick.

To Miles Jacobsen, please revert traning back to FM18 or atleast inlude a button in FM19 to revert back to 18. I have never had a full squad happy with training like I could in FM18. 

See screenshots below

 

 

Capture.thumb.PNG.ecb0bb35f35c9494efbcaf4d700a38a5.PNG

 

 

182555746_Capture2.thumb.PNG.3d465a1dd6f8e9744f61cbc74a7192dd.PNG

 

 

188657966_Capture3.thumb.PNG.6306376e550a0e4960a01e8b5c9d6d0a.PNG

 

 

1272396479_Capture4.thumb.PNG.eb8a477132d74f23ca4cbdcf52c30af4.PNG

Thanks,

 

Umayr

 

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On 10/11/2018 at 13:08, Cleon said:

 how you deal with it. 

seems like there isnt a way to do with except endure it and hope there are minimal adverse effects.

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11 hours ago, witticism said:

seems like there isnt a way to do with except endure it and hope there are minimal adverse effects.

If you expect this game to be a if  X +Y = 10 kinda game then you are sorely mistaken. It's meant to reflect the uncertainty that can come with different conditions. There are things we can do to mitigate  that uncertainty which have all been documented in that guide, but if you expect more definitive answers, you won't find anyone of us giving them out. Your game conditions and how you play the game are never going to be the same as mine, which is why no one can say for certainty X+Y=10. 

Over the years that we have played the game, most of us havent' bothered with how happy or unhappy players are. We don't pay attention to every single complaint. We learn how to pay attention to what matters.

Maybe I want my whole squad to have better natural fitness over the course of a season so I give them training designed to incorporate those elements. Do I care what they think? No. I have players who are unhappy, ever heard of a life where 100% of people are happy 100% of the time? If you do please tell me about that world, cos it sounds like nirvana. The best we can do is manage the consequences and drive it to a state we want.

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On 11/11/2018 at 20:25, Limbada95 said:

 

Players being unhappy with training, is that a bug? Whenever my player wants quickness, I assign them quickness, but then they want strength, so I assign them strength & then it switches back to quick.

To Miles Jacobsen, please revert traning back to FM18 or atleast inlude a button in FM19 to revert back to 18. I have never had a full squad happy with training like I could in FM18. 

See screenshots below

 

 

Capture.thumb.PNG.ecb0bb35f35c9494efbcaf4d700a38a5.PNG

 

 

182555746_Capture2.thumb.PNG.3d465a1dd6f8e9744f61cbc74a7192dd.PNG

 

 

188657966_Capture3.thumb.PNG.6306376e550a0e4960a01e8b5c9d6d0a.PNG

 

 

1272396479_Capture4.thumb.PNG.eb8a477132d74f23ca4cbdcf52c30af4.PNG

Thanks,

 

Umayr

 

I wasn't experiencing this on the beta but since the full release it's very hard to keep more than 65-70%. of the squad happy. On the beta it was easy to keep 90% happy. Could be a bug. 

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On 10/11/2018 at 11:53, craiigman said:

@Rashidi @Cleon I'm going to assume this is common now?

Unhappy players:

v2O4tPC.png

2 of them saying too much quickness training, 6 saying not enough.

Probably the best way to address this, in the long term, is to have a squad with similar or near-uniform personalities — ideally with high professionalism. I have that now after a couple of seasons, and they only ever complain about not getting enough quickness training. And that's easily fixed by throwing in a Quickness routine or two every couple of weeks (if it's not already there because of, e.g., Gegenpress training).

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Is there any reason why Match Review doesn't get added automatically by your AssMan when leaving training to him? I didn't even know it existed until reading this thread and it seems to have no downside.

I like the new system a lot but it's too much micro management to do absolutely all of it myself so I prefer to leave it to AM and tweak as I see fit. Having to manually add a match review after every game is already too much micro management. Is it a bug?

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35 minutes ago, bar333 said:

Is there any reason why Match Review doesn't get added automatically by your AssMan when leaving training to him? I didn't even know it existed until reading this thread and it seems to have no downside.

I like the new system a lot but it's too much micro management to do absolutely all of it myself so I prefer to leave it to AM and tweak as I see fit. Having to manually add a match review after every game is already too much micro management. Is it a bug?

Do you have a data analyst?

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I don't know about the rest of you guys but I do not have any problems with players being unhappy with training at the moment.

Either my players are very professional or my training schedules are very balanced. Maybe both.

I try to balance my schedules and filled them up with all kinds of activities mainly to not overload my coaches, so I can keep a low (or average at worse) workload for all categories. The moment one category becomes high workload I know my schedule is not balanced and I have too much of something.

I try to not obsess with too much of the same thing even if I think my tactic or players need it. 

As with everything, you have to balance the equation.

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1 hour ago, fmFutbolManager said:

Do you have a data analyst?

Yes. To clarify, I can schedule match reviews myself. I'm just wondering why, when left to the AM, he never does and basically if you want that totally free Team Cohesion boost you have to go and manually do it for every single game.

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On 08/11/2018 at 08:31, timbo1983 said:

Hi Rashidi,

Thanks for the reply. I'm halfway through my second season and am enjoying the mentoring. I am actually having great success with player personalities, more than I did using tutoring in previous versions. My concern is I bought a young central midfielder who had no PPM's, and somehow he has developed 3, one of which is "comes deep to get ball" which none of the players in his mentoring group have. So if I am reading your response correctly, the mentoring is totally random and there is no way to tell what the results will be. So by increasing someone's personality, I run the risk of them picking up PPM's that are adverse to how I want them to play? If that is true would I not be better off doing no mentoring and trusting my squads general character to affect personality, and just have young players learn the PPM's I want them to have?

No it's not random, PPMs work the same as personality, it comes from someone they are learning from. However, Mentoring isn't the only way for a player to learn, Social Groups come into play here too. That being said, a player should probably only be picking up PPMs from training. If you're finding that not to be the case could you please post a bug thread for us to investigate? Cheers.

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On 08/11/2018 at 17:29, yonko said:

I really don't like the fact that we have no control over the PPMs when mentoring players. They are so important to the way I want to play.

Can player improve personality without mentoring? Just by having a more professional and/or ambitious squad? Btw, I assume that professionalism and ambition are still the two most important hidden attributes for player developing. Determination is more important in terms of how they react to adversity in matches and match performances.

Determination is just as important as Ambition and Professionalism.

A player can improve their personality without gaining PPMs, yes. This is done via Dynamics.

As @Cleon mentioned, disentangling PPMs and personality from Mentoring isn't strictly possible. In reality if you ask a player to work within a specific group in training, you can't tell him to learn from their mentality but ignore anything they do with a football.

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On 11/11/2018 at 15:53, Fritz13 said:

I signed a DM and was expecting my experienced DM to be available for the “welcome to the club” option.

Instead it was my DC and current captain who was offered.

Does anyone know what the validation is in terms of which player is offered to perform the welcome duties.

Is it simply linked to the team leader group in the first instance?

The welcome to club method is off-pitch only, so personality and no PPMs. As such it recommends the most suitable player in influence/social terms, which will often be the captain or a team leader.

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On 11/11/2018 at 20:25, Limbada95 said:


@Rashidi

Players being unhappy with training, is that a bug? Whenever my player wants quickness, I assign them quickness, but then they want strength, so I assign them strength & then it switches back to quick.

To Miles Jacobsen, please revert traning back to FM18 or atleast inlude a button in FM19 to revert back to 18. I have never had a full squad happy with training like I could in FM18. 

See screenshots below

 

 

Capture.thumb.PNG.ecb0bb35f35c9494efbcaf4d700a38a5.PNG

 

 

182555746_Capture2.thumb.PNG.3d465a1dd6f8e9744f61cbc74a7192dd.PNG

 

 

188657966_Capture3.thumb.PNG.6306376e550a0e4960a01e8b5c9d6d0a.PNG

 

 

1272396479_Capture4.thumb.PNG.eb8a477132d74f23ca4cbdcf52c30af4.PNG

Thanks,

 

Umayr

 

If you have a bug to raise, please do so over here - https://community.sigames.com/forum/663-training-and-medical-centre/ - we can then investigate from there.

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16 hours ago, bar333 said:

Is there any reason why Match Review doesn't get added automatically by your AssMan when leaving training to him? I didn't even know it existed until reading this thread and it seems to have no downside.

I like the new system a lot but it's too much micro management to do absolutely all of it myself so I prefer to leave it to AM and tweak as I see fit. Having to manually add a match review after every game is already too much micro management. Is it a bug?

Match Review is one of those marginal gains that managing training yourself can bring. The AM is great, but he can't do it all for you ;)

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Just wondered if there was any merit in assigning two players with Significant influence to mentor 2 younger players to increase chances of "success" or whether it is likely to be counter productive?

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On 07/11/2018 at 10:36, ashlfcowen said:

This is gold. Thank you so much to all of you involved in creating this.

I enjoy FM, but I'm not particularly good at it. The training element this year overwhelmed me, but seeing as I love the development side of things, I knew I needed to get involved with it.

I have a couple of questions...

In the weeks where there are two, maybe three games - is it safe to say that player development will take a back seat as a  result of needing to rest players sufficiently?

The next 3 weeks of my calendar will explain perfectly what I mean. 

One game a week allows me to focus on a fair bit through the week. General, Unit & Specific ... whereas two games a week that goes out of the window and it seems focus is on the match days and rest/recovery. Is this right? Can I afford to experiment some more with the days before & after a match?

How is it possible to tell if you're just not "getting this right"? What I've got on there makes sense to me, and so I'm happy to continue with it - with some chopping and changing here and there.

That's all I have for now

Thanks :)

 

 

 

1.jpg

I hope this wasn't a silly question.

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On ‎07‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:36, ashlfcowen said:

How is it possible to tell if you're just not "getting this right"?

 

3 hours ago, ashlfcowen said:

I hope this wasn't a silly question.

If you're referring to that, there is no "right" or "wrong".

OK, technically I'm sure someone far smarter than me might figure out how to min/max the whole thing to come up with some hugely complex "best" method of training.  Meanwhile back on planet Earth rest assured that "not getting it right" is ok - it's ok to relax, use a little common sense and experiment, safe in the knowledge that we really can't screw things up that badly.  Unless we put all of our heavily jaded and poor condition players on super intensive physical training for 3 months without realising it. 

Which I totally haven't done.

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10 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

Determination is just as important as Ambition and Professionalism.

A player can improve their personality without gaining PPMs, yes. This is done via Dynamics.

As @Cleon mentioned, disentangling PPMs and personality from Mentoring isn't strictly possible. In reality if you ask a player to work within a specific group in training, you can't tell him to learn from their mentality but ignore anything they do with a football.

Yes, I can and I do it often. I'm coach IRL, btw. You can tell players to learn from other players' approach and mental aspect without necessarily picking up their playing habits on the field. You can work separately on their playing habits during practice and teach them traits. 

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5 hours ago, mhaffy said:

Just wondered if there was any merit in assigning two players with Significant influence to mentor 2 younger players to increase chances of "success" or whether it is likely to be counter productive?

Imho this is the type of information we should be given to use mentoring in a somewhat sensible way. It's a tool of this game and I feel we simply don't have enough specific instructions to use it. I try to use common sense but it's not like we have real life examples of how 'mentoring groups' work (they most likely do not exist on these terms). Information on this have been so vague and obscure.

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