Custom Tactic and Training Schedule Advice

[mhaffy]

Really enjoying changes to tactics and training so far. I am currently using Beta to try and gain understanding of changes etc before starting main long term career save when main game released. At the moment I am using tactic presets as a base and making my own "tweaks"; training left to Assistant. My understanding is that training schedule suggested is based upon the main tactic that you set so that appropriate attributes for that tactic/style are worked upon etc. Presumably by building a custom tactic, the quality/appropriateness of training schedule selected is not compromised? If you replicated preset vertical tiki taka via custome tactic build then presumably the training schedule advice would be same as if you selected the preset? For training advice to be appropriate the custom build tactic is presumably assessed in some way to ensure training advice is sensible.

Not looking for "under the hood" info etc to try and "game" training - just keen to know that you will not be disadvantage in some way re training schedule advice by building a custom tactic.

[Cleon]

The assistant selects schedules based on:

His attributes, preferences and tendencies - for example, Hardness of Training, Attacking, Tactical, etc.

• Time of season
• Type of club
• Players
• Tactics

If you are giving control of training to the assistant manager, then it’s worth while hiring an assistant manager who reflects your beliefs and style. That way, he will be more likely to select schedules that suit your overall philosophy, compared to an assistant manager who has a contrasting style to your own.

[BlueZero]

How can ask to my assistant to update schedules ?

[Guest]

I'd like advice on this to and I'm curious if others have set up custom training schedules and would share them?

[phnompenhandy]

On 24/10/2018 at 17:02, Cleon said:

Hardness of Training

I always see this in the editor and I've never understood what it does. Is 1 or 20 the best value, and why?

[ferrarinseb]

2 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I always see this in the editor and I've never understood what it does. Is 1 or 20 the best value, and why?

I think the higher the value the hard training he gives to players. This also couples with Level of Discipline.

[phnompenhandy]

Just now, ferrarinseb said:

I think the higher the value the hard training he gives to players. This also couples with Level of Discipline.

Yeh, but is that actually good or bad? Does it lead to more injuries, more disaffection? Is 10 a better value than 20?

[ferrarinseb]

13 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Yeh, but is that actually good or bad? Does it lead to more injuries, more disaffection? Is 10 a better value than 20?

In my opinion having a Higher Hard training Value is good. with the changes we had in training this year i want to see the effects of it. And when Editor comes in then i will start playing with this sort of experiments.  

[phnompenhandy]

6 minutes ago, ferrarinseb said:

In my opinion having a Higher Hard training Value is good. with the changes we had in training this year i want to see the effects of it. And when Editor comes in then i will start playing with this sort of experiments.  

Good, I'll be following your reports. With umpteen more variables in Training this year and supposedly much slower development, it will be hard to detect how much effect one setting has, but keep us posted anyway!

[ferrarinseb]

1 minute ago, phnompenhandy said:

Good, I'll be following your reports. With umpteen more variables in Training this year and supposedly much slower development, it will be hard to detect how much effect one setting has, but keep us posted anyway!

Agreed on many variables. I would really like to confirm its slower development once game gets released. Will post you the reports.

[Ross Ingersoll]

where is Tug when you need him? 

[Cleon]

3 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Good, I'll be following your reports. With umpteen more variables in Training this year and supposedly much slower development, it will be hard to detect how much effect one setting has, but keep us posted anyway!

You're not supposed to think of just 1 setting any longer. The game is shifting towards making you see the full skillset and not just focus on one specific setting.

[phnompenhandy]

1 minute ago, Cleon said:

You're not supposed to think of just 1 setting any longer. The game is shifting towards making you see the full skillset and not just focus on one specific setting.

Well that's true, but we ought to be able to know what each distinct attribute means in order to understand their relationships. Can you explain simply what 'hardness of training' does?

[Cleon]

15 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Well that's true, but we ought to be able to know what each distinct attribute means in order to understand their relationships. Can you explain simply what 'hardness of training' does?

The attribute does exactly what it says it does, there's no mystery surrounding it.

[phnompenhandy]

1 minute ago, Cleon said:

The attribute does exactly what it says it does, there's no mystery surrounding it.

Well yeh there is. Does 20 hardness mean nice and efficient or does it amount to driving them on 30 km cross-country runs every morning and run up loads of injuries?

[Cleon]

7 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Well yeh there is. Does 20 hardness mean nice and efficient or does it amount to driving them on 30 km cross-country runs every morning and run up loads of injuries?

Well there isn't? The risk of injuries comes from the type of sessions and schedules used, the tiredness and injury proness of players and so on. Injuries are a factor of other things. This is why you need to think about attributes as a whole because you started off wanting to know what hardness of training meant for that specific thing. Then the post above in the quote, is you using the collective of everything to describe hardness of training as possibly increasing injuries etc. Hardness of training does what it says on the tin. Everything else comes together to determine injuries, efficiency, progress and so on.

[plcarlos]

I think your mixing 2 things here, and over complicating it:

Hardness of training is how hard the coach will push the players - Yes - it means they may do a 30km cross-country run (Or equivalent).

The injury risk of this is a separate issue, and should be managed by Medical team advice and or Assistant Manager (If Scheduling). We can manage this by setting the intensity for tired players\injured players etc..

 

 

[phnompenhandy]

2 hours ago, plcarlos said:

I think your mixing 2 things here, and over complicating it:

Hardness of training is how hard the coach will push the players - Yes - it means they may do a 30km cross-country run (Or equivalent).

The injury risk of this is a separate issue, and should be managed by Medical team advice and or Assistant Manager (If Scheduling). We can manage this by setting the intensity for tired players\injured players etc..

 

 

Right, this is my question. Say I can choose one of two fitness coaches - one has 'Hardness of Training' 20 and the other has '1'. Is hiring the former more likely to lead to players having injuries compared to the latter?

[plcarlos]

45 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Right, this is my question. Say I can choose one of two fitness coaches - one has 'Hardness of Training' 20 and the other has '1'. Is hiring the former more likely to lead to players having injuries compared to the latter?

OK. I understand your question. I know what your trying to ask, But your still missing the extra's. You keep combining the question, and missing that it's split. It's 2 different roles.

 

Coaches Coach - Hardness of training is merely 1 of many factors that determine the quality. Coaches don't deal with the injury risk

Medical staff are responsible for Injury risk. Who organised the training is also responsible for them as well - You, or the assistant (If you let them manage).

So in theory, you could argue that if you are the one who sets training, and are training players at max to develop them, and disregard the fitness advice, you would become the coach with Hardness of training at 20, and yes, that would increase the risk.

It's hard to answer both as 1, as they are 2 separate jobs.

Hire the better coach at all times, and manage the training, and injury risk will be a high or low as what you set.

We have a rest option now in training that allows custom settings based on fitness, and tiredness. Since i dialed that down, i get a lot less injuries in training. Only 90%+ Get double, Under 90% get normal, The rest get half, bar the leftmost option, who get a rest.

My injuries have mainly come from matches - Be that First team, or reserves (When building back from Injury).

 

[phnompenhandy]

Sorry, no. You are completely evading my question. In two identical scenarios where all training schedules and medical staff are identical, the ONLY variable is Hardness of Training being 20 and 1, what difference does it make? Really simple question, honestly.

[plcarlos]

7 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Sorry, no. You are completely evading my question. In two identical scenarios where all training schedules and medical staff are identical, the ONLY variable is Hardness of Training being 20 and 1, what difference does it make? Really simple question, honestly.

I'm sorry you think I'm evading the question, I'm trying to help as much as i can, but it really is 2 questions:

1 - If the Variable is hardness of training, and we training schedules\medical staff are identical, then we should be able to assume the Hardness of training 20 would be a slightly better coach. the Hardness of training 1 could be slightly lower. They are not medics, so we can't comment on that ability. It really is a simple as that.

So hardness of training would have a bearing on training, but not injury management.

SI games have stated on Multiple occasions that they are looking to get away from FM being a Numbers game, and they do that by making all sections\departments work together to combine skills in order to achieve all of this.

2 - Injury management, as I've stated, would be the medical department,

In terms of a Coaches ability here, Mods\SI would be the only ones who could answer beyond my guess, which would be that: Coaches would need physio\sport science ability as well to judge this, and then those traits would far outweigh Hardness of training in terms of injury proneness. 

[phnompenhandy]

1 hour ago, plcarlos said:

1 - If the Variable is hardness of training, and we training schedules\medical staff are identical, then we should be able to assume the Hardness of training 20 would be a slightly better coach. the Hardness of training 1 could be slightly lower.

Okay, thanks, this is the part that addresses my question. However, you're just guessing exactly like myself; I was hoping Cleon or someone could give a definitive answer from the inside.

 

And maybe I could reduce this fog of confusion that's spreading across threads by saying forget about FM19 for just one moment - what does it mean in FM18??

[melogroovy]

My guess would be that if an AssMan has hardness of training of 20 (or 1) it would be mitigated by man management, level of discipline, etc.  If that is the case with FM19 then I don't see how anyone could calculate the ramifications because of the amount of variables.  A reasonable outcome would be that if an AssMan is running the guys ragged in training you'd either see their fitness drop or they'd start complaining to you.

[phnompenhandy]

3 minutes ago, melogroovy said:

My guess would be that if an AssMan has hardness of training of 20 (or 1) it would be mitigated by man management, level of discipline, etc.  If that is the case with FM19 then I don't see how anyone could calculate the ramifications because of the amount of variables.  A reasonable outcome would be that if an AssMan is running the guys ragged in training you'd either see their fitness drop or they'd start complaining to you.

The problem is that due to all the variables I and everyone mentions, it would be impossible to know how much if any of the effects are due to  Hardness of Training. Despite Cleon claiming there is no mystery, I am still utterly mystified as to what this attribute actually means.

[RodentofDoom]

Ever heard the expression "run until you puke"

 

HoT1 - you'll never get to the puking stage

HoT20 - why are you stopping? it's only puke, KEEP RUNNING!!

 

pure guestimation of course, but that's how I see it.

 

As to how that affects training overall .. I would guess it will have 2 major impacts

 - possible player development due to training

 - risk of injuries due to training workload

 

So obviously with HoT1 … both would be around the none/minimal level

[phnompenhandy]

^ Yes, all sensible but, as you say, guessing. Cleon says there is no mystery, but no one authoritative gives a plain factual answer

[Tinkerman84]

Don't think too much as  a game, just put yourselve and your coaching team as if you're coaching as in real life. For example I revamped my coaching team, I saw one of my coaches was better at coaching overall than my asistant so I delegated the coach to prepare the draft calendar of training, and I am supervising and make  changes in a weekly basis if I see necessary. ( and for my asistant I only use him for anaylisnig the oppponents and tactical advice to me. )