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FM 20 Tactic List and FM 19 Recommended Tactic List

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17 minutes ago, QuickZombie said:

I can only find the HGF 4411 thats the asymmetric one with striker to the right and AMC to the left 1548. Is that the correct one? So you just changed wingers to WM and defend on DLP? Thanks

and ap to ss

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32 minutes ago, QuickZombie said:

I can only find the HGF 4411 thats the asymmetric one with striker to the right and AMC to the left 1548. Is that the correct one? So you just changed wingers to WM and defend on DLP? Thanks

No, it`s a tweak of a 4231

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2 minutes ago, Crusho79bv said:

No, it`s a tweak of a 4231

Which one? I can see three on the spreadsheet. Thanks

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23 minutes ago, QuickZombie said:

Which one? I can see three on the spreadsheet. Thanks

It's not posted. 

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16 minutes ago, Crusho79bv said:

It's not posted. 

Good..Waiting until you finish and share

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Sorry just to clear up confusion i meant which of knaps was your starting point haha. Not your tweaked version.

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12 hours ago, bendixkunert2 said:

another test for upper mid table team in Argentina.

 

Unbenannt.thumb.png.e4560b837f7525b2a3bfe5cbe92cf295.png

 

Need to test with a worst team in a division and see how it stacks up against the IWB tactic in comparison but looks pretty solid so far.

IWB version not recommended for below sub top teams. Tried this and meh. The WB version works well for below average and above teams. Bournemouth the best example to me because media prediction 14-16 in the most competitive league. 3 tests and all 3 above 80 points and top 3 finishes. Not the best tactic for absolute underdogs like Norwich (only 9th place finish).

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Posted (edited)

4411 above . So here the end of season result . C1 Winner ?! .
Yeah so anyone would think that i was cheating to get this result. I can send the save files to you. ( I used IGE to make tactic fluid and thats all )

Untitled.png

1.png

Untitled.png

Untitled1.png

Edited by TA

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6 hours ago, Crusho79bv said:

Tweaking HGF to this :

N1.thumb.jpg.48329d421a153124661a5b6c2381c69a.jpg

Needs to be tested a full season, but early results are really good

N2.thumb.jpg.1dd1e1cc4093ea4460275359abce8aaa.jpgN3.thumb.jpg.18f4052ecd07a1b578927087414a65e4.jpg

Defence is really good, the wide mids drop deep to get the ball, DLP will stay deep and the BBM with SS are running the show, through balls to AF or WM when they attack

Which tactic?? Thanks 

 

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6 minutes ago, kelvin0131 said:

Which tactic?? Thanks 

 

Use HOLY GHOST FIRE VOL 2 4411 P108 EC FA , 

Few posts up

Almost identical to my tweak

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@Crusho79bv

 

You had a couple of different roles so a different spin on tactic.

 

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1 hour ago, TA said:

4411 above . So here the end of season result . C1 Winner ?! .
Yeah so anyone would think that i was cheating to get this result. I can send the save files to you. ( I used IGE to make tactic fluid and thats all )

Untitled.png

1.png

Untitled.png

Untitled1.png

@TA

I'm also RB Leipzig. You recommend this tactic? Since you got quite a lot of goals against and not so many goals for??

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2 hours ago, efekabaraci said:

use sub-top team @knap

@knap

You recommend this tactic for RB Leipzig over the Fire & Water Vol 2 24321 you recommended me yesterday??

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, knap said:

@Crusho79bv

 

You had a couple of different roles so a different spin on tactic.

 

Honestly, the style of play is almost the same

From what i`ve seen in the last hour of testing, only my WM stay wider and DLP deeper

Didn`t change the speed of play or something else

SS and AM play the same, just that SS gets in front of the goal more often, but doesn`t track back as often as i would

 

HOLYGHOSTFIRE v3.fmf

Edited by Crusho79bv

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@Npjschouten

 

It depends on what formation you prefer. I would say a EC win is a good recommendation.

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28 minutes ago, knap said:

@Npjschouten

 

It depends on what formation you prefer. I would say a EC win is a good recommendation.

@knap

True, however TA played also with RB Leipzig and he did win everything, however he received unfortunately a high amount of goals against and not so much for.. Where you scored a lot and got not that much against..

I would like to win everything too, however to also play a dominant high goal scoring season.. 

So I'm in a bit of a pickle right here, could you help me out? haha

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@Npjschouten

Depends on quality of team the amount of GD you can generate.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Npjschouten said:

@TA

I'm also RB Leipzig. You recommend this tactic? Since you got quite a lot of goals against and not so many goals for??

Yeah i think you can use that tactic because damn* look at that 3-0 to Barca in final ?! I've never won a C1 cup with Leipzig before.
Personaly i think it would fit the mid to sub-top team .
i have try it with Man utd  ( not best not worth ~ its like good ) and have pretty many draw . Simply because my opponent tend to sit back and wait for me to attack . 

And also have a new look about GF - GA. Right now i only care about the GD, the higher it is the better . 
Cheers!

Edited by TA

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want to use these tactics on fm19.. but how?? It says could not import..

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22 hours ago, knap said:

@wMIKEthePIKEw

Hello again lads!

Hope you liked the training guide, we are back again this time with a man marking guide.

This story began a month ago or so, when fooling around with man marking and finding some strange results.

I think maybe it was Cadoni who started it, and the rest of us built on that and we worked together to test and find out what worked best.

So far we have come up with two types of approaches, but both are built around taking out the AI's deep playmaker, essentially cutting of the defenders target when they play out from the back. We are already using Knap tactics that are gegenpressing, and in both tactics we are using 3 players are already in this zone pressing the defenders. So this tops that pressure of, and what it does is make the defenders clear the ball, not being able to start the attack from behind.

This leads to your team winning the ball a lot, and dominating the game, while the AI struggle to create play. It does however somewhat rely on you to have, or get the right players for the marking to work, and if you can’t it’s probably the wrong player you are using.

In different tests Everton and Leicester won the league first season without signings, and in Germany the absolute worst team in the league Paderborn managed 4th and Champions league using this.
 

NB!

This approach needs you to work to find the player to mark before each game, as it shifts depending on their formation.
Now there are leagues and formations this works better for than others, a heavy underdog in LL might have problems doing this as well as a PL team, due to the fact that they play direct and are already planning to hoof the ball. It will however put more pressure one them in this situation, and make them miss the pass a lot.

But however with the right players and approach we found it can be incredibly useful.

We started with the Fire and Water 4321 p103, that has 2 AMCs and a AF. We used the left AMC to man mark by name (not position as not as effective), the AIs DMC.

This AMC needs to be aggressive, have stamina and work rate, anticipate well, and be brave and hopefully strong to win any duel.

The other approach is using the Fire and Water 23212 p104, that has two pressing forwards and a AMC. Here we use the left pressing forward to man mark by name the same DMC or the MC that is the one who is dropping down to get the ball.

This PF needs to be aggressive, strong, have stamina and workrate, be brave, and quick to get into pressure fast.

First let's take a look at how we set the marking:
1c547d8dbe6f0ddf9.md.png

Here you can see that we set by name and not position.

So how do we find out who to mark? The opposition report and the analyst report pre game tells you so much info.

If they use a DMC it’s easy. Select him. If they use a midfield two or three, you will need to use the analysis section of pre-game like this:

 
ADVERTISING


The first page under the OI report tells you that when Bruno and Pogba are playing together it is Pogba who is DLP and lowest.

You can see that on the picture.
2b5e59a9cd6c341da.md.png

The second page shows you different things for the last three games, and some specific things for their last game. They might have used different roles and players, so look for the one that fits today's lineup as you see it where you put the man who shall be marked.

You have the passing network who shows you who all pass to most, and who gets the ball most.
3f3bc77833bbaf393.md.png

Next to that you have the positional heat map, this shows their normal position during games. Here it is very easy to see who is lowest of the midfielders. No picture as it is really self explanatory.

Next if you check the "team selection" of AI, it shows the last game. On that picture you see Fred playing, and as a dlp lower than Pogba.
47cccc7f36c4dea45.md.png

We now know some things.

If Bruno and Pogba are playing in a midfield two, then Pogba is the lowest of the two and should be marked. If Pogba and Fred are playing , Fred is the one lowest on the pitch and the one getting the ball from the defenders.

Then go back to marking, and see who is playing. Here it is Pogba and Bruno.
51175fa7576c9c699.md.png

By now it is obvious to man mark the lowest MC, in this case Pogba, out of the game by using your closest AMC or PF if using 2 striker tactic.

This player will will have greater chance at success the better Pressing forward he is, and we have identified the abilities aggressivity, bravery, work rate, strength, acceleration, and pace as important to do a good job for the pressing forward tactic.

For the one with 2 amcs, we recommend they have some of the same stats to do a best possible job of pressing the one marked.

The rest of the Pressing forward abilities are also handy if can be had, based on your playing level.

You can check if it is working by checking key passes of marked player, as well as "touches" and possession in the report after the game. The one you are marking should have really low scores for these.

If you are still not sure, check their roles and their PMs, comes deep to get the ball and dictates tempo are ones we look for. If they play 2 mcs, one is a DLP and the other CM, it’s the DLP we want. If no DLP, you need to investigate a bit to find out.

Normally the types that drop deep are deep lying playmakers, ball winning midfielders if playing in central midfield. Any role a DMC has should be marked.

Some formations are harder than others, and I would encourage you to try out different things, maybe you will find your way of using this with your tactic, as we are sure this works in other formations as well.

As an extreme underdog we have marked up to four players and beating Liverpool.

Their DMC, both wing backs as they are important for their team, and also one of the 2 mcs in front of the dmc who might act as a 2nd playmaker. When doing this they were totally shut down.

Here are some results with the midfielder marked, and as you can see the team marking (Everton) is dominating the game in a remarkable way.
6f80f30912d1093ac.md.png

7b55ff62e57efab33.md.png

Results using Man marking for Everton, no signings:
88bd0975c382b37ef.md.png

Here we see Evertons man marker getting almost as many tackles won, and more attempts than the Everton CBs. This of course does not take into effect the insane amount of times the defenders just clear the ball right to us because of his and the others pressure.
9384d601c7b75c66f.md.png

This is one way of getting results, and there might be others that work better for your team, your squad or your level. Still we found great results with this, and wanted to share them with you.

Good luck! : )

I'm using 433 flat 3 mid flat 3 St. Pressing forward in the middle of X2 AF. Using this theory having the pressing forward mark the DM seems right? But if facing a 2 man mid what player would be best employed for marking a double pivot let's say 4231 the playmaker is left CM. Still the pressing forward or should it be one of my AF or even my mezzala? 

Currently tring to work it out but would like opinion. @wMIKEthePIKEw

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hi knap just about to start a new save with birmingham looking for a 433 or 442 which would you suggest as a good starting point I think we are an underdog team also would like use a target man if possible which tactic would suit this .there are so many tactics I got lost in the thread lol

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Posted (edited)
On 21.05.2020 at 01:44, knap said:

I think really good tactic for underdog or midtable teams. But need some adjustments for defensive completition.

MONZA 1912

First Season in Serie A .

Media Prediction - 18th and forcing the top.

 

1.JPG

3.thumb.JPG.8496e4344932df3d417b2a9275523cda.JPG

4.thumb.png.dda8677068bdeee9679c6d5c91b5ba0e.png

2.thumb.JPG.1b531c291301bbaddc5764585581f6cc.JPG

Edited by kaanpisken

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@Djels

 

I would still use the PF from the strikers. It is also possible to use a MC A.

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@kroshot

ID 1486 is  a traditional Target Man Poacher 442. Probably weaker than BEOWULF 442 P105 or VENOM 442 P109

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@kaanpisken

Don't often combine 4231 with underdog tactic.

Can try dropping mentality or using DLP D.

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To anyone usuing the man marking, do you use it every match home or away or just against the better teams?

Starting to use it with an underdog team so most opponents are better in the league until I start to improve and build.

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Posted (edited)
16 часов назад, Crusho79bv сказал:

Honestly, the style of play is almost the same

From what i`ve seen in the last hour of testing, only my WM stay wider and DLP deeper

Didn`t change the speed of play or something else

SS and AM play the same, just that SS gets in front of the goal more often, but doesn`t track back as often as i would

 

HOLYGHOSTFIRE v3.fmf 44 \u043a\u0411 · 68 downloads

My result with this tactic. Chances to be the champion 1001-1
image.thumb.png.a17453990a26f8e11beb606a25e2607b.png

Edited by Stremka

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On 22/05/2020 at 10:04, knap said:

@wMIKEthePIKEw

Hello again lads!

Hope you liked the training guide, we are back again this time with a man marking guide.

This story began a month ago or so, when fooling around with man marking and finding some strange results.

I think maybe it was Cadoni who started it, and the rest of us built on that and we worked together to test and find out what worked best.

So far we have come up with two types of approaches, but both are built around taking out the AI's deep playmaker, essentially cutting of the defenders target when they play out from the back. We are already using Knap tactics that are gegenpressing, and in both tactics we are using 3 players are already in this zone pressing the defenders. So this tops that pressure of, and what it does is make the defenders clear the ball, not being able to start the attack from behind.

This leads to your team winning the ball a lot, and dominating the game, while the AI struggle to create play. It does however somewhat rely on you to have, or get the right players for the marking to work, and if you can’t it’s probably the wrong player you are using.

In different tests Everton and Leicester won the league first season without signings, and in Germany the absolute worst team in the league Paderborn managed 4th and Champions league using this.
 

NB!

This approach needs you to work to find the player to mark before each game, as it shifts depending on their formation.
Now there are leagues and formations this works better for than others, a heavy underdog in LL might have problems doing this as well as a PL team, due to the fact that they play direct and are already planning to hoof the ball. It will however put more pressure one them in this situation, and make them miss the pass a lot.

But however with the right players and approach we found it can be incredibly useful.

We started with the Fire and Water 4321 p103, that has 2 AMCs and a AF. We used the left AMC to man mark by name (not position as not as effective), the AIs DMC.

This AMC needs to be aggressive, have stamina and work rate, anticipate well, and be brave and hopefully strong to win any duel.

The other approach is using the Fire and Water 23212 p104, that has two pressing forwards and a AMC. Here we use the left pressing forward to man mark by name the same DMC or the MC that is the one who is dropping down to get the ball.

This PF needs to be aggressive, strong, have stamina and workrate, be brave, and quick to get into pressure fast.

First let's take a look at how we set the marking:
1c547d8dbe6f0ddf9.md.png

Here you can see that we set by name and not position.

So how do we find out who to mark? The opposition report and the analyst report pre game tells you so much info.

If they use a DMC it’s easy. Select him. If they use a midfield two or three, you will need to use the analysis section of pre-game like this:

 
ADVERTISING


The first page under the OI report tells you that when Bruno and Pogba are playing together it is Pogba who is DLP and lowest.

You can see that on the picture.
2b5e59a9cd6c341da.md.png

The second page shows you different things for the last three games, and some specific things for their last game. They might have used different roles and players, so look for the one that fits today's lineup as you see it where you put the man who shall be marked.

You have the passing network who shows you who all pass to most, and who gets the ball most.
3f3bc77833bbaf393.md.png

Next to that you have the positional heat map, this shows their normal position during games. Here it is very easy to see who is lowest of the midfielders. No picture as it is really self explanatory.

Next if you check the "team selection" of AI, it shows the last game. On that picture you see Fred playing, and as a dlp lower than Pogba.
47cccc7f36c4dea45.md.png

We now know some things.

If Bruno and Pogba are playing in a midfield two, then Pogba is the lowest of the two and should be marked. If Pogba and Fred are playing , Fred is the one lowest on the pitch and the one getting the ball from the defenders.

Then go back to marking, and see who is playing. Here it is Pogba and Bruno.
51175fa7576c9c699.md.png

By now it is obvious to man mark the lowest MC, in this case Pogba, out of the game by using your closest AMC or PF if using 2 striker tactic.

This player will will have greater chance at success the better Pressing forward he is, and we have identified the abilities aggressivity, bravery, work rate, strength, acceleration, and pace as important to do a good job for the pressing forward tactic.

For the one with 2 amcs, we recommend they have some of the same stats to do a best possible job of pressing the one marked.

The rest of the Pressing forward abilities are also handy if can be had, based on your playing level.

You can check if it is working by checking key passes of marked player, as well as "touches" and possession in the report after the game. The one you are marking should have really low scores for these.

If you are still not sure, check their roles and their PMs, comes deep to get the ball and dictates tempo are ones we look for. If they play 2 mcs, one is a DLP and the other CM, it’s the DLP we want. If no DLP, you need to investigate a bit to find out.

Normally the types that drop deep are deep lying playmakers, ball winning midfielders if playing in central midfield. Any role a DMC has should be marked.

Some formations are harder than others, and I would encourage you to try out different things, maybe you will find your way of using this with your tactic, as we are sure this works in other formations as well.

As an extreme underdog we have marked up to four players and beating Liverpool.

Their DMC, both wing backs as they are important for their team, and also one of the 2 mcs in front of the dmc who might act as a 2nd playmaker. When doing this they were totally shut down.

Here are some results with the midfielder marked, and as you can see the team marking (Everton) is dominating the game in a remarkable way.
6f80f30912d1093ac.md.png

7b55ff62e57efab33.md.png

Results using Man marking for Everton, no signings:
88bd0975c382b37ef.md.png

Here we see Evertons man marker getting almost as many tackles won, and more attempts than the Everton CBs. This of course does not take into effect the insane amount of times the defenders just clear the ball right to us because of his and the others pressure.
9384d601c7b75c66f.md.png

This is one way of getting results, and there might be others that work better for your team, your squad or your level. Still we found great results with this, and wanted to share them with you.

Good luck! : )

@knap @wMIKEthePIKEw really interested in this, thank you.  tried this in my Charlton save with the Fire and Water 4321 p103, first game we won 4-1.  Not sure squad suits this formation though - is there a 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 that you would recommend that might work with this approach? 

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@jdubsnz

 

Tactics with MM use a position marking and does not cause any problems with most formations. The specific player MM has been used with 4321 and 4312. I would use it with these formations 1st and then try another formation and see if it still works as intended.

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Hey Knap which tactic would you recommend for Kilmarnock I would like to play a 433 or 4321.

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Knap, which tactic would you consider the best for a top team to plug and play, the new Holy Ghost Fire 4411?

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@Spikester

Holy Ghost Fire tactics are interchangeableso maybe worth seeing which obe gels with squad.

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15 minutes ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:

Oh really? So you've tested every tactic with every team, including regens, and decided this is the only tactic worth using? 

Err yeah, pretty much. I play a ton of FM.

It's a 442 so easy to find players for and is ridiculously consistent. The defence is maybe a little leaky but scores goals for fun.

If you want I can tell you exactly what the key positions are in this tactic. The LM assists the most and the STCR scores the most, though the split is somewhat even. The DCR scores a ton of goals from headers on the corners. The RM is pretty consistent too at chipping in with a goal every other game. 

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I agree 442 Venom or 442 Beowulf are the best tactics this year.

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3 minutes ago, Jon_00 said:

Err yeah, pretty much. I play a ton of FM.

It's a 442 so easy to find players for and is ridiculously consistent. The defence is maybe a little leaky but scores goals for fun.

If you want I can tell you exactly what the key positions are in this tactic. The LM assists the most and the STCR scores the most, though the split is somewhat even. The DCR scores a ton of goals from headers on the corners. The RM is pretty consistent too at chipping in with a goal every other game. 

Sorry dude but you're just wrong. I've never used the tactic and smashing the game atm. You are welcome to have an opinion but be careful not to over influence other players my dude

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442 is not so strong as FM19.

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I gotta say, with regens (6th season upwards), 442 is the least tactic I wanna go, and I got super elite teams. 15 players 4 stars and couple 5stars, and the rest is 3-3,5 stars. 

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Any tactic using two strikers or two wingers and strikers gets a thumbs up from me.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Cadoni said:

442 is not so strong as FM19.

Agreed, best tactics this year are systems that utilise attacking midfielders and mezzalas. Fire and Water 4321 vol 2 and Kashmir 433MM are the most solid tactics overall that I've used so far.

Edited by Tjs89

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@RDF Tactics @Rober82 @Cadoni

I've question regarding your training tactics. Is it necessary for the fitness coaches to have model citizen too? 

I don't have that yet that much great coaches yet and some are improving greatly but a lot of them are declining so rapidly and being so unhappy.. it's quite worrisome..

Hope y'all can help me out?

 

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12 minutes ago, Npjschouten said:

@RDF Tactics @Rober82 @Cadoni

I've question regarding your training tactics. Is it necessary for the fitness coaches to have model citizen too? 

I don't have that yet that much great coaches yet and some are improving greatly but a lot of them are declining so rapidly and being so unhappy.. it's quite worrisome..

Hope y'all can help me out?

 

It's hard to find Model Citizen Fitness Coach, so look for different options like:

- Model Professional
- Professional
- Fairly Professional

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