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FM 20 Tactic List and FM 19 Recommended Tactic List

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@knap I am figuring this out now! I am trying to decide on whether to switch to the 4312 fire or 4321 oxford possibly with some mm. I was thinking that could maybe help as those look like better underdog tactics. 
 

thanks again 

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@Chuckybrewster99

MM is certainly an aid for under dogs, especially if you can follow Robers guide.

As it also works for 4231 it is possible will also work with 4411 type tactics.

Also I would not discount the older tactics like Sympathy 4222.

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41 minutes ago, knap said:

@Spikester

I find MM helpful for teams like Spurs. I doubt the EG tactic would be suitable for Spurs team., at sub top level

I'm still managing my PSG game. So the VOL3 MM version would be better for a strong top team?

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@knap do you think using your 4312 fire with mm or even the 23212 fire like rober suggests with mm as an underdog in the championship I would be exposed? I currently have a better setup squad for 2 strikers than a 4231. 
 

thanks

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@Spikester

Often all cupscan be the better tactic rather than the P105

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@knap Hi Knap, If you was going to start a save with the following teams, and you was only allowed to choose one of your tactics, what one you picking?

 

Liverpool, West Ham, Norwich

Barcelona, Celta Vigo, Real Mallorca

Juventus, Sampdoria, Brescia

Bayern Munich, Werder Bremen, SC Paderborn

PSG, FC Nantes, FC Metz

 

You want all the above teams to achieve, one tactic allowed. What tactic you betting on ?

 

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Can any 1 guide me to Holy Ghost Fire asymmetric please

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2 hours ago, knap said:

@wMIKEthePIKEw

 

Probably missed it.

The majority of tactics will work in LL and Rober used FIRE 4312 with MM to take Oxford Utd to winning PL.

Oddly the tactics I would not recommend are ROUTE 66 Tactics with direct passing. These type of tactics will work but I find they take longer to get going.

@knap

just to be clear - FM20.4.0.Fire and Water4312P102FA? And then MM on their playmaker?

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Haha.. very close call :D media prediction 14.. winning the league duo to better GD
image.thumb.png.544655eddf7fccbab44c748b310b431a.png

 

I used GHOSTFIRE 4231 narrow MM.. good tactic. 
 

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@knap

Thank you for your awesome tactics.

Currently I'm playing as RB Leipzig and using your 4-3-2- tactic with a defensive midfielder. I had some mixed results, however winning most of them. Yet with the cost of very very low possession.

Can you recommend me a tactic which scores lots and lots of goals? Would it be a 4-2-3-1 tactic or the 433 Kashmir Celtic tactic?

Thanks in advance!!

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@wMIKEthePIKEw

Not sure what tactic Rober used with Oxford but FIRE 4132 and then marking per the guide.

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@Npjschouten

Sympathy was set up with Leipzig. Possession is low but most possession does not win games.I have noticed the latest 4231s have higher possession.

The highest scoring tactics are identified in the Overall column.

Kashmir433s are really for Elite teams. Celtic were of a standard well above rest of league.

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42 minutes ago, knap said:

@Npjschouten

Sympathy was set up with Leipzig. Possession is low but most possession does not win games.I have noticed the latest 4231s have higher possession.

The highest scoring tactics are identified in the Overall column.

Kashmir433s are really for Elite teams. Celtic were of a standard well above rest of league.

@knap

Thank you! Do you then recommend the sympathy tactic?

And which of those high scoring tactics in the overall section would you recommend with RB Leipzig and 4-2-3-1 in mind??

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Hi Knap,

What tactic is the most similar to a Guardiola style?

Thanks!

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@LBucko

 

I tend to think more 433 so cold be Kashmir

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1 ora fa, knap ha scritto:

@wMIKEthePIKEw

Not sure what tactic Rober used with Oxford but FIRE 4132 and then marking per the guide.

I am quite sure it was FIRE23212

It brought me very good results with MM

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35 minutes ago, Npjschouten said:

@knap

Thank you! Do you then recommend the sympathy tactic?

And which of those high scoring tactics in the overall section would you recommend with RB Leipzig and 4-2-3-1 in mind??

@knap

Thanks in advance, but which one would you recommend me the most?

Cheers!

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Hi @knap 

Firstly I want to thank you for your great job about FM tactics and your helpfulness and patience for our questions.

I always get inspired from you and from all of people who is sharing their ideas here. And also I should thank to @RDF Tactics @Rober82 @Cadoni 

I know you and your team is doing great job to test your tactics. You are testing a tactic for 90 games with different teams.

I have seen your name and your job firstly on https://fm-base.co.uk/tactic-testing/

You are sharing your tactics with results screenshots here. These sharings show us a lot of things about tactic.

Maybe it can be nice to see your tactic results screenshots with sub-top teams or mid-table teams.

Thanks again @knap

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, knap said:

FM 20.4.1

bendixkunert2 tweak and under dog test

HOLY GHOST FIRE VOL3 4231  P103 EC

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FM20.4.1HOLYGHOSTFIREKnapCrushoBendixVOL34231P103EC.fmf 45.1 kB · 64 downloads

202795707_Screenshot(1342).thumb.png.923b17f1165df8e287ac8403764c2201.png883860389_Screenshot(1341).thumb.png.a10f16d865f0207fa74f30daf3a43ffd.png1921688698_Screenshot(1340).thumb.png.a999fad9df67a308d81a0c47f22cac71.png

 

 

another test for upper mid table team in Argentina.

 

Unbenannt.thumb.png.e4560b837f7525b2a3bfe5cbe92cf295.png

 

Need to test with a worst team in a division and see how it stacks up against the IWB tactic in comparison but looks pretty solid so far.

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8 hours ago, radetzky said:

I am quite sure it was FIRE23212

It brought me very good results with MM

Thx buddy, do you know, where I can find the guide about manmarking?

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13 hours ago, knap said:

The narrow version is really good

The AI is too stupid, doesn`t know how to handle so many players attacking the central area of the pitch

L1.thumb.jpg.e58478c91b710c1e5ded67e03b648fc8.jpgL2.thumb.jpg.91de459d14c2edee14717ce807cb57f5.jpg

 

For those who use this tactic and have problems in defence, switch the DLP To Defend and he`ll drop between the mid and defence, more like a holding mid

Works with the wide versions also.

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10 hours ago, knap said:

@Npjschouten

 

fire & water vol 2 4321 138 goals

Thank you!! I'll test it asap!

@knap

Two last questions! Do you use the MM-guide for this tactic and should I change the mentality when I play bigger teams such as in the CL or Bayern??

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35 minutes ago, Crusho79bv said:

The narrow version is really good

The AI is too stupid, doesn`t know how to handle so many players attacking the central area of the pitch

L1.thumb.jpg.e58478c91b710c1e5ded67e03b648fc8.jpgL2.thumb.jpg.91de459d14c2edee14717ce807cb57f5.jpg

 

For those who use this tactic and have problems in defence, switch the DLP To Defend and he`ll drop between the mid and defence, more like a holding mid

Works with the wide versions also.

That's worked great thanks! Like you say I was overloading people but defence seemed open due to lack of midfield support.

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@wMIKEthePIKEw

Hello again lads!

Hope you liked the training guide, we are back again this time with a man marking guide.

This story began a month ago or so, when fooling around with man marking and finding some strange results.

I think maybe it was Cadoni who started it, and the rest of us built on that and we worked together to test and find out what worked best.

So far we have come up with two types of approaches, but both are built around taking out the AI's deep playmaker, essentially cutting of the defenders target when they play out from the back. We are already using Knap tactics that are gegenpressing, and in both tactics we are using 3 players are already in this zone pressing the defenders. So this tops that pressure of, and what it does is make the defenders clear the ball, not being able to start the attack from behind.

This leads to your team winning the ball a lot, and dominating the game, while the AI struggle to create play. It does however somewhat rely on you to have, or get the right players for the marking to work, and if you can’t it’s probably the wrong player you are using.

In different tests Everton and Leicester won the league first season without signings, and in Germany the absolute worst team in the league Paderborn managed 4th and Champions league using this.
 

NB!

This approach needs you to work to find the player to mark before each game, as it shifts depending on their formation.
Now there are leagues and formations this works better for than others, a heavy underdog in LL might have problems doing this as well as a PL team, due to the fact that they play direct and are already planning to hoof the ball. It will however put more pressure one them in this situation, and make them miss the pass a lot.

But however with the right players and approach we found it can be incredibly useful.

We started with the Fire and Water 4321 p103, that has 2 AMCs and a AF. We used the left AMC to man mark by name (not position as not as effective), the AIs DMC.

This AMC needs to be aggressive, have stamina and work rate, anticipate well, and be brave and hopefully strong to win any duel.

The other approach is using the Fire and Water 23212 p104, that has two pressing forwards and a AMC. Here we use the left pressing forward to man mark by name the same DMC or the MC that is the one who is dropping down to get the ball.

This PF needs to be aggressive, strong, have stamina and workrate, be brave, and quick to get into pressure fast.

First let's take a look at how we set the marking:
1c547d8dbe6f0ddf9.md.png

Here you can see that we set by name and not position.

So how do we find out who to mark? The opposition report and the analyst report pre game tells you so much info.

If they use a DMC it’s easy. Select him. If they use a midfield two or three, you will need to use the analysis section of pre-game like this:

 
ADVERTISING


The first page under the OI report tells you that when Bruno and Pogba are playing together it is Pogba who is DLP and lowest.

You can see that on the picture.
2b5e59a9cd6c341da.md.png

The second page shows you different things for the last three games, and some specific things for their last game. They might have used different roles and players, so look for the one that fits today's lineup as you see it where you put the man who shall be marked.

You have the passing network who shows you who all pass to most, and who gets the ball most.
3f3bc77833bbaf393.md.png

Next to that you have the positional heat map, this shows their normal position during games. Here it is very easy to see who is lowest of the midfielders. No picture as it is really self explanatory.

Next if you check the "team selection" of AI, it shows the last game. On that picture you see Fred playing, and as a dlp lower than Pogba.
47cccc7f36c4dea45.md.png

We now know some things.

If Bruno and Pogba are playing in a midfield two, then Pogba is the lowest of the two and should be marked. If Pogba and Fred are playing , Fred is the one lowest on the pitch and the one getting the ball from the defenders.

Then go back to marking, and see who is playing. Here it is Pogba and Bruno.
51175fa7576c9c699.md.png

By now it is obvious to man mark the lowest MC, in this case Pogba, out of the game by using your closest AMC or PF if using 2 striker tactic.

This player will will have greater chance at success the better Pressing forward he is, and we have identified the abilities aggressivity, bravery, work rate, strength, acceleration, and pace as important to do a good job for the pressing forward tactic.

For the one with 2 amcs, we recommend they have some of the same stats to do a best possible job of pressing the one marked.

The rest of the Pressing forward abilities are also handy if can be had, based on your playing level.

You can check if it is working by checking key passes of marked player, as well as "touches" and possession in the report after the game. The one you are marking should have really low scores for these.

If you are still not sure, check their roles and their PMs, comes deep to get the ball and dictates tempo are ones we look for. If they play 2 mcs, one is a DLP and the other CM, it’s the DLP we want. If no DLP, you need to investigate a bit to find out.

Normally the types that drop deep are deep lying playmakers, ball winning midfielders if playing in central midfield. Any role a DMC has should be marked.

Some formations are harder than others, and I would encourage you to try out different things, maybe you will find your way of using this with your tactic, as we are sure this works in other formations as well.

As an extreme underdog we have marked up to four players and beating Liverpool.

Their DMC, both wing backs as they are important for their team, and also one of the 2 mcs in front of the dmc who might act as a 2nd playmaker. When doing this they were totally shut down.

Here are some results with the midfielder marked, and as you can see the team marking (Everton) is dominating the game in a remarkable way.
6f80f30912d1093ac.md.png

7b55ff62e57efab33.md.png

Results using Man marking for Everton, no signings:
88bd0975c382b37ef.md.png

Here we see Evertons man marker getting almost as many tackles won, and more attempts than the Everton CBs. This of course does not take into effect the insane amount of times the defenders just clear the ball right to us because of his and the others pressure.
9384d601c7b75c66f.md.png

This is one way of getting results, and there might be others that work better for your team, your squad or your level. Still we found great results with this, and wanted to share them with you.

Good luck! : )

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Posted (edited)
wrong message,sorry
Edited by efekabaraci
wrong message,sorry

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Hello knap, I've always used your tactics so far. along with other fm series. I moved from 2018 to 2020 series. There are many changes in the game. a player can take the ball and enter the midfield and score a goal. I cannot stabilize the match engine in the defensive sense. Have you could suggest tactics for the league turkey? I am successful in league, but they are crushing in Europe. Do you think this match engine will change, I am writing with Google translate. I'm sorry if there is something wrong. I am not happy with the game. I think I will activate the marking option for the MM.

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@efekabaraci

I would say the ME is final version this year.

Apart from Mam Marking try Cautious mentality. Also later tactics HOLY GHOST FIRE uses positive so slightly more defensive. Can also try DLP Defend tweak when needed.

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Hey @knap

In the Argus 352, where do you put your best striker ?
Striker Left or Striker Right ?

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@IMFC

Salah's preference is right and your striker may have a preference. However, I would still change them arund from time ti time anyway.

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decided to go with 4231 (h) / 4411 (a) with leicester , which tactics would you recommend?

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What is the version you recommend as HOLY GHOST FIRE for subtop, @knap

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@resoag

HGF 4231 with WBs and BEOWULF 4411 in recommended column

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Tweaking HGF to this :

N1.thumb.jpg.48329d421a153124661a5b6c2381c69a.jpg

Needs to be tested a full season, but early results are really good

N2.thumb.jpg.1dd1e1cc4093ea4460275359abce8aaa.jpgN3.thumb.jpg.18f4052ecd07a1b578927087414a65e4.jpg

Defence is really good, the wide mids drop deep to get the ball, DLP will stay deep and the BBM with SS are running the show, through balls to AF or WM when they attack

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17 hours ago, knap said:

@wMIKEthePIKEw

 

Probably missed it.

The majority of tactics will work in LL and Rober used FIRE 4312 with MM to take Oxford Utd to winning PL.

Oddly the tactics I would not recommend are ROUTE 66 Tactics with direct passing. These type of tactics will work but I find they take longer to get going.

Hi @knap thanks again for the great tactics.  have just started a Charlton save - is the Fire 4312 ID 1426?  Also, do you have a favourite 4231 you would use for a long term save?  Looking to couple it with venom & faith v3 109.  thanks in advance!

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41 minutes ago, Crusho79bv said:

Tweaking HGF to this :

N1.thumb.jpg.48329d421a153124661a5b6c2381c69a.jpg

Needs to be tested a full season, but early results are really good

N2.thumb.jpg.1dd1e1cc4093ea4460275359abce8aaa.jpgN3.thumb.jpg.18f4052ecd07a1b578927087414a65e4.jpg

Defence is really good, the wide mids drop deep to get the ball, DLP will stay deep and the BBM with SS are running the show, through balls to AF or WM when they attack

I can only find the HGF 4411 thats the asymmetric one with striker to the right and AMC to the left 1548. Is that the correct one? So you just changed wingers to WM and defend on DLP? Thanks

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17 minutes ago, QuickZombie said:

I can only find the HGF 4411 thats the asymmetric one with striker to the right and AMC to the left 1548. Is that the correct one? So you just changed wingers to WM and defend on DLP? Thanks

and ap to ss

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32 minutes ago, QuickZombie said:

I can only find the HGF 4411 thats the asymmetric one with striker to the right and AMC to the left 1548. Is that the correct one? So you just changed wingers to WM and defend on DLP? Thanks

No, it`s a tweak of a 4231

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2 minutes ago, Crusho79bv said:

No, it`s a tweak of a 4231

Which one? I can see three on the spreadsheet. Thanks

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23 minutes ago, QuickZombie said:

Which one? I can see three on the spreadsheet. Thanks

It's not posted. 

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