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FM 20 Tactic List and FM 19 Recommended Tactic List

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@knap you ot a tactic with a Raumdeuter?

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@gazzahutc

Having seen the Scout video I would not leave it to AM for a save longer than a season.

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Posted (edited)

@knap

 you use MM with 4231? If so assume the AMC would do it?

Edited by sidford

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@Ianthefatboy

 

I was not happy with Vol 1 hence the vol 2 straight away.

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@knap while you're at it, maybe create tactics with unpopular roles? Treq and enghance are quite unfamiliar too. or maybe RPM and CAR

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@knap

Do you think it would be possible to create an efficient 4231 with a Enganche centralized? I always liked that role a lot. Classic and elegant.

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6 hours ago, The Cult of FM said:

Come on there's no need for that. On my UEFA B course with our UEFA Pro license tutor one of the first things he said to us was "Us coaches are the biggest thieves on the planet. We watch other teams/coaches for ideas, take those ideas, tweak them to suit our version of it then pass it off as our own work" 

Guardiola got his ideas from Cruyff ( and is openly proud of it ) . Mourinho by Van Gaal, Bobby Robson and others. They didn't come up with their ideas just sat at their laptop one day moving some counters around on a screen. So you could argue it's just as realistic.

People also come in here and download for many reasons. I personally come in these types of threads to see if there are any tactics around that are similar to my own and comparing my success to the other top tactics ( Knaps 4-3-2-1's are outperforming mine ). If the other tactics are doing better then I like to see where I'm going wrong in the match engine and what I might need to tweak In my own to make it better. I know you said not like I mind and I'm not having a go at you personally by the way I'm making a general point about it.

You clearly missed my point. 

 

I was offering a different view on his claim to cheating, I wasn't saying the DL'ing of a Knap Tactic, for example, was cheating. I was trying to tell the dude to step away, let people play how they want to...cheat or not, they pay their money, they play how they like.

 

Also, I'm not sure you can compare IRL manager tactic creations/recreations to the beating the FM AI.

 

With respect, and i mean no shade, I'm not a kid that needs educating on the reasons people frequent these forums. I honestly feel we have the same opinions, just expressed slightly different, hence the confusion. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

With so many tactics being churned out with successful Liverpool saves, isn't it more likely that Liverpool are* just savagely OP?

Edited by grazdoztrez

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7 hours ago, grazdoztrez said:

With so many tactics being churned out with successful Liverpool saves, isn't it more likely that Liverpool are* just savagely OP?

Not true.. they do work with other teams as well.. im using a BEOWULF-based tweaked version, i have just changed some roles and minor stuff..

 

image.thumb.png.99df661f57bdf115fcc1dbf5db1d7f93.png

image.thumb.png.e740886c708b9bd9164d3b73c4527bb4.png

image.thumb.png.7625ff081380618b7a90a07b8016e646.png

image.thumb.png.72044d6a88ff7b6464b5b8d60f1b0a9c.png

 

This is how my tweaked beowulf looks like..

image.thumb.png.0ec66ed63662a0adab76e732f377cb4a.png

 

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Knap has shown that they work for likes of spurs and Celtic so it's not just pool, they just tend to be his go to team.

I'm struggling for time to play FM on full mode, has anyone used these tactics on touch? Been reading up on touch and seems like it might fit better for me at the minute

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@knap

Hi Knap, I'm a new user on the forum and haven't played FM fo years, but now I'm back. :-) I trying to lead Notts County from the lower leagues to PL. Can you help me choose a tactic? I'm on FM 4.0 version. Best Regads. Mike.   

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49 minutes ago, malte722 said:

Not true.. they do work with other teams as well.. im using a BEOWULF-based tweaked version, i have just changed some roles and minor stuff..

 

image.thumb.png.99df661f57bdf115fcc1dbf5db1d7f93.png

image.thumb.png.e740886c708b9bd9164d3b73c4527bb4.png

image.thumb.png.7625ff081380618b7a90a07b8016e646.png

image.thumb.png.72044d6a88ff7b6464b5b8d60f1b0a9c.png

 

This is how my tweaked beowulf looks like..

image.thumb.png.0ec66ed63662a0adab76e732f377cb4a.png

 

 

33 minutes ago, sidford said:

Knap has shown that they work for likes of spurs and Celtic so it's not just pool, they just tend to be his go to team.

I'm struggling for time to play FM on full mode, has anyone used these tactics on touch? Been reading up on touch and seems like it might fit better for me at the minute

I'm not having a go at Knap, it's just so many of these tactics are now same-same but different, it's as though almost any tactic could be used with Liverpool and get results.  In most screenshots Salah is smashing goals and assists, regardless of his position.   I understand you don't want there to be too many variables (ie changing teams too often), but at what point do you accept that almost any tactic will probably work with Liverpool, and therefore it's probably not a good basis for tactical creation?

If this is not the place for hypothetical discussions then I apologise and will leave it alone.

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@Tangzila

You probably can with that formation, just check PIs of other positions as not always set up the same.

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1 hour ago, malte722 said:

Not true.. they do work with other teams as well.. im using a BEOWULF-based tweaked version, i have just changed some roles and minor stuff..

 

image.thumb.png.99df661f57bdf115fcc1dbf5db1d7f93.png

image.thumb.png.e740886c708b9bd9164d3b73c4527bb4.png

image.thumb.png.7625ff081380618b7a90a07b8016e646.png

image.thumb.png.72044d6a88ff7b6464b5b8d60f1b0a9c.png

 

This is how my tweaked beowulf looks like..

image.thumb.png.0ec66ed63662a0adab76e732f377cb4a.png

 

@malte722, can you share your tweak link, mate? thanks!

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@grazdoztrez

What I have found over the years is that tactics made with say Newcastle are seldom make good universal tactics, but those created using top clubs are more universal

The results I see from Rober tend to indicate these  Lpool tactics work for underdogs suc,h as Sheffield Utd winning PL.

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, knap said:

@grazdoztrez

What I have found over the years is that tactics made with say Newcastle are seldom make good universal tactics, but those created using top clubs are more universal

The results I see from Rober tend to indicate these  Lpool tactics work for underdogs suc,h as Sheffield Utd winning PL.

 

Yeah, I understand that you don't want a tactic to be pigeon holed to a specific set of players and/or skills - which are not transferable from say Newcastle to Watford.

But if the purpose is to make a tactic which performs best vs the ME and you have a players like Salah that can play very well at seemingly any advanced role, at what point does he and others like him 'break' the tactic's universal capabilities?  

So, quickly looking through the tactics posted above;

Holy Ghost Fire asymmetric:

Salah playing as pressing forward to the right; 54 goals, 7 assists.

Holy Ghost Fire 4-2-3-1:

Salah Playing as right winger attack; 30 goals, 41 assists.

Kashmir RMD;

Salah playing as right RMD attack; 26 goals, 35 assists.

 

If it doesn't matter where someone like Salah plays and you will still get 61+ direct goal contributions, doesn't that discredit the tactical set up/positions/roles as that player is overwhelmingly good?   Outside of maybe 3/4 teams, you're not going to have a player this good and be able to carry you to 61+ goals.   Surley to make it universal and transferable you need to know the positions/roles still work with lesser commodities? 

Also I see VVD has got 16+ goals in each of those tactics.  I'm not saying that set pieces aren't a part of the game or part of a tactic, but that level of, dare I say exploit, it again harms the true ability of the tactic as a stand alone weapon against the ME?

Don't we want the tactic to be the best, first and foremost, and then add the META/OP/exploit options on top to essentially supersize it? Rather than bloat the tactic with META/OP/exploit options so that we don't know the true value of the tactic in the first place?

-Again, I apologise if I'm speaking out of turn or appear to be rude, passive aggressive or what have you.  I love the game and I want to improve my own learning and interactions within it.  And that can only be done by understanding the raw data and the processes.  I have used a number of your tactics this season, and for that I am grateful, sadly I haven't been able to stick with any of them long term as the results are not nearly as good as with the Liverpool SS.  I've found it hard to get 16 goals out a forward let alone a centreback.

 

 

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@knap For the tactic: HOLY GHOST FIRE VOL2 MM 4231 P103 ALL CUPS - Can you tell me what position man marks and who he should man mark? Can't seem to find this anywhere? Thanks DJ

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@grazdoztrez

There are many views of what a tactic should be how tested with what test teams etc etc 

As a player of the game I would suggest you draw up a list of what you want from a tactic and set up your own test to test your ideas and theories.

An example is the French Underdog Tests.. From those tests you can see that teams predicted to finish just above relegation zone can end up challenging for the title with PSG.

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@DJdevil100

With 4231 MM Tactics the AM will pick up DM.and should be set up.

If you follow Rober's guide than you will have to change this depending upon AI Formation and how they play.

The MM tactics are a more simplistic approach but makes the system P&P

 

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On 20/05/2020 at 22:03, gazzahutc said:

do you use any of the training methods out there or just purely plug and play?

@gazzahutc plug and play, tweaked the set pieces thats it

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Hi Knap

You got a lot of Beowulff 4-4-2 and 4-2-2-2 tactics that you recommend. But some of them are from earlier versions. 

What tactic of them all would you say is the best? 

Cheers

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46 minutes ago, bendixkunert2 said:

Bournemouth with IWBs changed to regular WBs. Tactic looks overpowering.

test 1

Unbenannt.thumb.png.5e71d7efd9afd1f3323aa276064f2c09.png

 

test 2

Unbenannt2.thumb.png.9a9ee85609311997d4767dea84ebb165.png

 

 

 

Any man marking?

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@Bossyboss

If you sort the recommended column the BEOWULF 442 P105 will be there.

Although I can't disclose results, BEOWULF Tactics have been independently tested with CA 125 and 145 teams

 over 180 games. 'I've added the best to the recommended column.

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Using 4312 Fire with MM as instructed but I can't stop conceding goals. 12 conceded in the past 5 matches. Anyone know how to stop it?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, sidford said:

@knap do you know if these tactics work as well on touch?

I've been playing on touch with Inter and I'm now in my fifth season. Helped me to easily won serie A every year and we won Cup most year. I won CL in the first season if I remember well but I've been struggling in the quarter final ever since, probably due to lack of tweaking since my side was not stellar and probably got FMed two or three times as well.

I've changed tactic every year from 352 to 4321 to 4312 to 442 etc.

You will have less flexibility for training.

Edited by Tangzila

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3 minutes ago, Tangzila said:

I've been playing on touch with Inter and I'm now in my fifth season. Helped me to easily won serie A every year and we won Cup most year. I won CL in the first season if I remember well but I've been struggling in the quarter final ever since, probably due to lack of tweaking since my side was not stellar and probably got FMed two or three times as well.

I've changed tactic every year from 352 to 4321 to 4312 to 442 etc.

You will have less flexibility for training.

Ah brilliant thanks a lot mate good to know

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@sidford

I run both games and tactics are set up in both games.

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Knap with the new Holy Ghost 4231, would you recommend the one with MM or the one with MM and EG for a big team?

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First time posting here but big fan of @knap tactics. I was able to get 3 1st place promotions back to back. Unfortunately I don’t have the vanarama table as i took out that league. Been using 442 Beawulf and 442 Venom since I took the over. Have been struggling in the championship since however. 
 

thanks @knap for the tactics! 

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9BCEA23F-FF18-4CD7-88F3-9E8240C5116E.png

6BB78D9B-A571-4AE0-896D-7CB2234A9054.png

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@wMIKEthePIKEw

 

Probably missed it.

The majority of tactics will work in LL and Rober used FIRE 4312 with MM to take Oxford Utd to winning PL.

Oddly the tactics I would not recommend are ROUTE 66 Tactics with direct passing. These type of tactics will work but I find they take longer to get going.

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@Spikester

I find MM helpful for teams like Spurs. I doubt the EG tactic would be suitable for Spurs team., at sub top level

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Posted (edited)

@Chuckybrewster99

 

I t is not always bad to have a delay in promotions as it allows better squad building.

 

See this often in Dafuge Challenge thread

Edited by knap

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