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[ENGLAND] Premier Division Data Issues

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4 hours ago, DaveAzzopardi said:

Cheers for those Erick. Agree with most if not all of them. At the next opportunity to include them in the game, I will do.

Thanks for the response, mate. Appreciate it. Remember to also add Doherty's "Gets forward whenever possible" and "Cuts inside from  the right wing"! :)

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1 hour ago, bangkonggedek said:

I have no issue at all with his Aggressiveness, Bravery nor Dirtiness really, but just because a player has a strong tendency to commit himself into tackles per game, does that warrants them be rated as being very good at Tackling, Marking and Positioning? And let's say we're sticking to his tackling capability for now; going by PL stats as gathered by Squawka, his tackles won/tackles lost per game stats in the last three seasons are these:

  • 2015/16: 1.67 / 2.41 (total per season = 45 / 65)
  • 2016/17: 2 / 3.94 (total per season = 62/122)
  • 2017/18: 1.22 / 4.09 (total per season = 28 / 94)

And when we compare his tackling stats last season to someone like Abdoulaye Doucouré who only has 13 for Tackling in game but recorded a much better stats in 1.38 / 2.57 (51 / 95), surely a reassessment is in order?

Those stats are miles out of line with the Premier League's own official ones (as well as normalised per appearance rather than per 90 minutes, which produces garbage stats for anyone that doesn't always play 90). Whoscored uses OPTA and puts Herrera at 2.2 tackles completed per 90 for last season, in the league which is coincidentally slightly ahead of Doucoure. (Who has significantly more strength and half a yard more pace and will commit less rashly to tackles than Herrera, so will almost certainly complete a higher percentage in game...)  That figure was 2.7 the season before, which put him at #12 in the league.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the reason Man Utd overperform in the ME has little to do with the rotation midfielder who racks up impressive tackle counts and has been played out of position just to do man marking on more than one occasion being rated as bit above average at tackling, marking and positioning...

 

FWIW I agree with you re: Martial's dribbling and flair needing a drop. He's got better tricks than Rashford et al but actually uses them less effectively

Edited by enigmatic

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6 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Those stats are miles out of line with the Premier League's own official ones (as well as normalised per appearance rather than per 90 minutes, which produces garbage stats for anyone that doesn't always play 90). Whoscored uses OPTA and puts Herrera at 2.2 tackles completed per 90 for last season, in the league which is coincidentally slightly ahead of Doucoure. (Who has significantly more strength and half a yard more pace and will commit less rashly to tackles than Herrera, so will almost certainly complete a higher percentage in game...)  That figure was 2.7 the season before, which put him at #12 in the league.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the reason Man Utd overperform in the ME has little to do with the rotation midfielder who racks up impressive tackle counts and has been played out of position just to do man marking on more than one occasion being rated as bit above average at tackling, marking and positioning...

 

FWIW I agree with you re: Martial's dribbling and flair needing a drop. He's got better tricks than Rashford et al but actually uses them less effectively

Well I have strongly suspect that one of the reason United over performing and over consistent over the last few editions of FM has a good deal to do with that the whole squad on average are being overrated at key attributes, so putting up Herrera as one of the examples should serve as a pretty valid point of argument.

Having said that, I appreciate that you made a solid argument there, and looking again on the Squawka's record but this time per 90 minutes, his stats read as 2.06 / 6.92 compared to Doucouré's 1.44 / 2.69. Then in addition to that, looking up to my two different career saves (not a very good number of samples though I suppose,) with both teams still employing the same managers in game after a few seasons on average Doucouré's Tackles Completed percentage stands at 90% while Herrera's stands at a meager 64 %, so when it comes to their tackling capability in game I admit that I really should've nothing to complain about :)

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Some Fulham updates:

- Fulham have an option to buy Vietto at the end of his loan, confirmed by Atletico: "The loan includes an option to buy" https://en.atleticodemadrid.com/noticias/luciano-vietto-to-join-fulham-on-loan

- Luca Squinzani has joined as First Team Goalkeeper Coach - http://www.fulhamfc.com/staff/luca-squinzani

- Bettinelli starts the game in the U23s - should be first team. Has also signed a new contract until 2021 with Club option of an extra year http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2018/october/25/contract-extension-for-marcus-bettinelli

- Joe Bryan's contract should expire in 2022 (not 2021), and has a Club option of an extra year. http://www.fulhamfc.com/player-profiles/joe-bryan

- Tom Cairney should have a Club option of an extra year on his contract - http://www.fulhamfc.com/player-profiles/tom-cairney

- Jean Michael Seri should also have a Club option to extend by an extra year -http://www.fulhamfc.com/player-profiles/jean-michael-seri

 

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If this has been already discussed here sorry. Few days ago an italian site that talks about finance in football shared an article about Manchester united players salary. I checked and are different from the game (which I noticed that seemed low). For example:

[Net]
Pogba -> € 17.071.600,00 while in the game is € 6.156.000
De Gea -> € 11.773.840,00 while in the game is € 6.156.000
etc 
https://www.calcioefinanza.it/2018/10/22/stipendi-manchester-united-20182019/

If the numbers in the game are wrong I hope they will be fixed before the official release of the game. Please check it out

Edited by ParanoidBuddha

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5 hours ago, ParanoidBuddha said:

If this has been already discussed here sorry. Few days ago an italian site that talks about finance in football shared an article about Manchester united players salary. I checked and are different from the game (which I noticed that seemed low). For example:

[Net]
Pogba -> € 17.071.600,00 while in the game is € 6.156.000
De Gea -> € 11.773.840,00 while in the game is € 6.156.000
etc 
https://www.calcioefinanza.it/2018/10/22/stipendi-manchester-united-20182019/

If the numbers in the game are wrong I hope they will be fixed before the official release of the game. Please check it out

Doesn't say where they sourced their figures. Unlike in Italy, UK clubs aren't required to publicly disclose their individual player wages, so it's (usually) impossible to know what the real amounts are.

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41 minuti fa, swansongs ha scritto:

Doesn't say where they sourced their figures. Unlike in Italy, UK clubs aren't required to publicly disclose their individual player wages, so it's (usually) impossible to know what the real amounts are.

I highly doubt that Pogba gains just 6Mio € yearly (imo at least the double) or that him and De Gea have the same wages. Those ones look way more realistic in any case

Edited by ParanoidBuddha

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Brighton Home Shirt colours

Sorry if already posted:

In game The Brighton home shirt is blue sleeves. blue back.  In reality, they are White sleeves and white back.

I know licenses limit the shirt design, but may I suggest something?.  Treat shirt backs as a separate entity to the front of shirts.  Allow the back to have access to all the front designs (overkill yes but easier than restricting which can be used, whilst keeping the ability to use a box) This would allow to be more realistic choices.  ie If Brighton had blue sleeves, a white back would be possible.  Currently, the front design colour choices dictates the back colour.

Or Juventus where there is front multiple stripes, but the back has a single stripe broken by a box.

I appreciate it might not appear as a patch for FM19 but please consider it for future editions.

Extra styles to add:

Quarters - with plain sleeves.  An addition to the one sleeve one colour, one sleeve the other.

There is a seven stripes -  but a finer equal stripe like 9 or 11 would cover a lot of teams. (Barcelona H 2018) 

(Sunderland 2017-18 comes to mind - using 2017-18 as that's the in-game editor I'm using) and nothing suggests to me 2018-19 has any shirt design changes.)

Halves (top-bottom) - in addition to this add 'Bottom third'  This would cover teams like Tottenham and Man u who have a bottom third of their shirt a different colour to the rest.

Checks - an addition to this with bigger checks - 3 across the chest - https://www.uksoccershop.com/p-108169/2018-2019-croatia-home-nike-football-shirt.html

(link is for illustration purposes only).  Having this design will also prepare for the expected/leaked design for Barcelona in 2019-2020. (although in reality that might change many times before the actual release).

Would be great if the back design was available too (from link). (Hence my suggestion of making all front designs possible on the back)

Variation on checks - a speckle effect.  This would cover teams like Liverpool 3rd, Everton White, Chelsea 3rd.

Happy gaming ;)

 

Edited by Mark.Alexander

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Now Manchester United is the 8th team with highest wages in the game (184Mio €) but in the last UEFA document based on 2016, it is in the 2nd place just behind Barça

ikSjY97mE_jmP-XGDZdNsdikdJxvgoJVQMaNnIgVteA.thumb.png.eb24302e2b4f3a701453939a1744d1e9.png

 

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On 27/10/2018 at 10:50, Brighton123 said:

Thanks for the reply.

I do understand about Dunk and remember having a similar conversation this time last year about him. I can agree with you on leadership but defensively he is rated poorly compared to other mid to lower prem teams CB's so hope you can take a look.

Stephens has been playing DM this year when we've played 4-1-4-1 or 4-3-3 (probably more like 4-1-4-1 the way Brighton play). Thats been used 4/5 times this year? Even if he's not given 19/20 for DM I think 18 would be a fairer reflection. 

Get where you're coming from with Propper because he's a very intelligent player, but it does make him a light weight defensively in the game which I'm not sure is true in real life. 

I've also just seen Dan Ashworth is joining as Director of Football as a future transfer. His reputation rating is 1*, I know DoF isn't his real job but can this rating be made 4/5*? I'm not sure theres anyone else with so much respect and appreciation over what they've achieved. Out of interest, does signing DoF with a high rep boost the clubs rep or is it performance/facility based only?

Thanks for your thoughts on the rest of the team.

@Simon Tipple

Sorry, just to add, Ales Mateju is only on loan at Brescia rather than signed permanently. There isn't a report I can find that says the loan has a compulsory purchase. 

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/2018/july/ales-mateju-joins-brescia/

https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/16349850.albion-confirm-departure-of-ales-mateju-to-italian-club-brescia/ 

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Tashan Oakley-Boothe lacks second nationality. He is half Jamaican.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/tashan-oakley-boothe/profil/spieler/406637

Ro-Shaun Williams is also involved, his second nationality is Grenada.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/ro-shaun-williams/profil/spieler/314388

Joe Willock lacks Montserrat as second nationality.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/joe-willock/profil/spieler/340329

Mason Holgate is also concerned, Jamaica belongs as 2nd nationality added.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/mason-holgate/profil/spieler/348623

The Spaniard Nicolás Santos is with 2nd nationality from the Dominican Republic.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/nicolas-santos/profil/spieler/483351

Edited by davie77
One more found

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There needs to be more tangible proof than Transfermarkt for additional nationalities please. That's not to say they're wrong but, as they have a history of being less than certain with some of their biographical info, it helps to have (more) solid evidence. Thanks.

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10 hours ago, ParanoidBuddha said:

If this has been already discussed here sorry. Few days ago an italian site that talks about finance in football shared an article about Manchester united players salary. I checked and are different from the game (which I noticed that seemed low). For example:

[Net]
Pogba -> € 17.071.600,00 while in the game is € 6.156.000
De Gea -> € 11.773.840,00 while in the game is € 6.156.000
etc 
https://www.calcioefinanza.it/2018/10/22/stipendi-manchester-united-20182019/

If the numbers in the game are wrong I hope they will be fixed before the official release of the game. Please check it out

Going to need a better source than that. There are lots of different websites out there that claim to have the right figures. Lingard’s salary in that list is clearly incorrect so I’m instantly dubious.

€17m net is roughly £300k a week after tax - I’m not at all convinced Pogba is on that. That said, should probably be on more than De Gea so will look to amend that (although I suspect we’re past data lock now so won’t be immediate). 

More than open to reviewing this because - as swansongs says - we can only really estimate based on the better-sourced media outlets around, but you’ll need to persuade me why this list is any more reliable than all the others out there, especially when it clearly contains errors.

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I believe it has been mentioned here before but Kurt Zouma's acceleration stat of 19 is way too high. Dont know exactly how much it should be but seeing that he has 15 pace, I'm assuming he should have less than that for acceleration as its traditionally seen on big guys.

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30 minutes ago, Nick OGS20 said:

Going to need a better source than that. There are lots of different websites out there that claim to have the right figures. Lingard’s salary in that list is clearly incorrect so I’m instantly dubious.

€17m net is roughly £300k a week after tax - I’m not at all convinced Pogba is on that. That said, should probably be on more than De Gea so will look to amend that (although I suspect we’re past data lock now so won’t be immediate). 

More than open to reviewing this because - as swansongs says - we can only really estimate based on the better-sourced media outlets around, but you’ll need to persuade me why this list is any more reliable than all the others out there, especially when it clearly contains errors.

In the database, we have estimated both Pogba and De Gea to be on £200kpw, before tax, as a basic wage.

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Just now, Pete Sottrel said:

In the database, we have estimated both Pogba and De Gea to be on £200kpw, before tax, as a basic wage.

Yep - I think Pogba needs to probably go up a fair bit, £290k seems to be the most commonly reported figure (typo possibly? I’ll claim it...)

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il y a 53 minutes, Pete Sottrel a dit :

In the database, we have estimated both Pogba and De Gea to be on £200kpw, before tax, as a basic wage.

According to french newspaper L'Equipe, his estimated gross wage was 340 000 € / weekly in 2017.

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sports/le-footballeur-paul-pogba-est-le-sportif-francais-le-mieux-paye-de-l-annee-2017_2627140.html

Edited by romjet2

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8 hours ago, CEVR1996 said:

I believe it has been mentioned here before but Kurt Zouma's acceleration stat of 19 is way too high. Dont know exactly how much it should be but seeing that he has 15 pace, I'm assuming he should have less than that for acceleration as its traditionally seen on big guys.

agree. 19 is way too high for Zouma. 

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2 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

agree. 19 is way too high for Zouma. 

It was already set that way last season for Zouma when he came to Stoke, but one thing that surprised me is the guy was lightning fast to get up and running. In fact, speed seemed to be his greatest asset. 

All acceleration is, is a gauge of how quickly they get up to their max speed. It's arguable that perhaps him being so fast is what has stopped him from honing his defensive abilities quite as much as he would have otherwise, because the speed at which he moves is so often a get out of jail card for him. 

The reason presented by @CEVR1996 is not at all valid and has no basis in FM that acceleration should be less than pace, because they're two independent attributes. 

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6 minutes ago, santy001 said:

It was already set that way last season for Zouma when he came to Stoke, but one thing that surprised me is the guy was lightning fast to get up and running. In fact, speed seemed to be his greatest asset. 

All acceleration is, is a gauge of how quickly they get up to their max speed. It's arguable that perhaps him being so fast is what has stopped him from honing his defensive abilities quite as much as he would have otherwise, because the speed at which he moves is so often a get out of jail card for him. 

The reason presented by @CEVR1996 is not at all valid and has no basis in FM that acceleration should be less than pace, because they're two independent attributes. 

Is he really as quick as Yedlin who also has 19 acceleration? Or quicker than Walcott who has 18?

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9 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

Is he really as quick as Yedlin who also has 19 acceleration? Or quicker than Walcott who has 18?

It's hard to find the gentler words to say this, but you're contradicting yourself with this post. This isn't me trying to be a dick, just to help you contribute better to the discussion you want to have, you need to know you're making the wrong point at the moment.

Yedlin has 19 pace, Walcott has 16 and Zouma has 15. They're both faster than Zouma.

Acceleration is not a gauge of speed. It's how much ramp-up time a player takes to get to their top speed. It's self contained in its entirety, a player can be 20 acceleration, 1 pace or 1 acceleration, 20 pace and any combination of the two along spectrum. If you're saying that he's slower than Walcott and Yedlin then all you're saying is you agree with the data as it is, because he is slower than Yedlin and Walcott. 

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3 minutes ago, santy001 said:

It's hard to find the gentler words to say this, but you're contradicting yourself with this post. This isn't me trying to be a dick, just to help you contribute better to the discussion you want to have, you need to know you're making the wrong point at the moment.

Yedlin has 19 pace, Walcott has 16 and Zouma has 15. They're both faster than Zouma.

Acceleration is not a gauge of speed. It's how much ramp-up time a player takes to get to their top speed. It's self contained in its entirety, a player can be 20 acceleration, 1 pace or 1 acceleration, 20 pace and any combination of the two along spectrum. If you're saying that he's slower than Walcott and Yedlin then all you're saying is you agree with the data as it is, because he is slower than Yedlin and Walcott. 

Thanks for explaining the definition of acceleration to a final year engineering student! :lol:

Is he really as quick to get to top speed as Yedlin who also has 19 acceleration? Or quicker to get to top speed than Walcott who has 18?

Hope you're happy now....

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29 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

Thanks for explaining the definition of acceleration to a final year engineering student! :lol:

Is he really as quick to get to top speed as Yedlin who also has 19 acceleration? Or quicker to get to top speed than Walcott who has 18?

Hope you're happy now....

Hardly happy, it wasn't me who made the error initially and you still haven't presented anything to warrant a change.

Because it goes without saying doesn't it? As potentially the last researcher to review Zouma, I didn't see any reason to change it. That was my opinion, and "Is he really" doesn't make me re-think it at least.

Surely a final year student of any discipline would know that's not how you make an argument for or against something. 

It's worth mentioning that the acceleration of Zouma is one reason why I left alone his anticipation, positioning and concentration. They aren't the best for a defender, meaning better attackers will still have the beating of him. It's a part of the overall package that is supposed to represent Zouma. He doesn't have the best mental attributes of a defender, but he compensates for this with his tremendous speed. Acceleration like that is something that can leave a player quite quickly, but it was definitely there in spades last season. 

The discussion is a valid one, but try to factor in the player as a whole and what it means/does in FM because Zouma is set up for a certain style of defending. 

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24 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

Thanks for explaining the definition of acceleration to a final year engineering student! :lol:

Is he really as quick to get to top speed as Yedlin who also has 19 acceleration? Or quicker to get to top speed than Walcott who has 18?

Hope you're happy now....

Thanks for your input, NabsKebabs. Santy001 watched Zouma all of last season, and we trust his opinion. If you are very unhappy with how Zouma has been rated, then you can use the in-game editor to change his profile so that it is to your liking.  I really don't think we're going to get anywhere by batting this one to and fro, any further.

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16 hours ago, Mark.Alexander said:

Brighton Home Shirt colours

Sorry if already posted:

In game The Brighton home shirt is blue sleeves. blue back.  In reality, they are White sleeves and white back.

I know licenses limit the shirt design, but may I suggest something?.  Treat shirt backs as a separate entity to the front of shirts.  Allow the back to have access to all the front designs (overkill yes but easier than restricting which can be used, whilst keeping the ability to use a box) This would allow to be more realistic choices.  ie If Brighton had blue sleeves, a white back would be possible.  Currently, the front design colour choices dictates the back colour.

Or Juventus where there is front multiple stripes, but the back has a single stripe broken by a box.

I appreciate it might not appear as a patch for FM19 but please consider it for future editions.

Extra styles to add:

Quarters - with plain sleeves.  An addition to the one sleeve one colour, one sleeve the other.

There is a seven stripes -  but a finer equal stripe like 9 or 11 would cover a lot of teams. (Barcelona H 2018) 

(Sunderland 2017-18 comes to mind - using 2017-18 as that's the in-game editor I'm using) and nothing suggests to me 2018-19 has any shirt design changes.)

Halves (top-bottom) - in addition to this add 'Bottom third'  This would cover teams like Tottenham and Man u who have a bottom third of their shirt a different colour to the rest.

Checks - an addition to this with bigger checks - 3 across the chest - https://www.uksoccershop.com/p-108169/2018-2019-croatia-home-nike-football-shirt.html

(link is for illustration purposes only).  Having this design will also prepare for the expected/leaked design for Barcelona in 2019-2020. (although in reality that might change many times before the actual release).

Would be great if the back design was available too (from link). (Hence my suggestion of making all front designs possible on the back)

Variation on checks - a speckle effect.  This would cover teams like Liverpool 3rd, Everton White, Chelsea 3rd.

Happy gaming ;)

 

@Mark.Alexander - thanks for the good suggestions; you are right, though, in that licensing does play a part in what we can and can't do, with regard to the kits.

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14 hours ago, Brighton123 said:

@Simon Tipple

Sorry, just to add, Ales Mateju is only on loan at Brescia rather than signed permanently. There isn't a report I can find that says the loan has a compulsory purchase. 

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/2018/july/ales-mateju-joins-brescia/

https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/16349850.albion-confirm-departure-of-ales-mateju-to-italian-club-brescia/ 

This has been set by our Italian colleagues. 

The Argus suggested it would become permanent, but shouldn't be yet - https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/16328448.albion-set-to-make-a-quick-profit-on-defender-ales-mateju/

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On ‎27‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 23:35, howabe said:

Newcastle staff:

Paco de Míguel Moreno is the Assistant Manager - https://www.nufc.co.uk/teams/coaching-staff/francisco-de-míguel-moreno

Mikel Antía, currently Assistant Manager in-game, should be a First team Coach instead - https://www.nufc.co.uk/teams/coaching-staff/mikel-antía

Jamie Harley should be Head of Sports Science - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-harley-2309b465/?originalSubdomain=uk

Ben Dawson seems to be the head coach of the Under 23s, taking charge of them for matches, so would make sense as U23 Manager rather than just Coach.

Sean Beech is Head Academy Physio, so might be more accurate as an U18 rather than Senior Squad Physio - https://www.osborneclinic.com/meet-the-team/

Neil Winskill is a Youth (apparently U15) Coach, not currently in the game - https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-winskill-83886683/?originalSubdomain=uk

Daniel Garcia Vallejo is a Youth (to U16) Goalkeeping Coach, not currently in the game - https://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/steve-harper-appointed-as-new-lead-academy-goalkeeping-coach

Not sure if the last two merit inclusion given the age groups they work with...

 

 

 

 

Hi Howabe,

Thanks for your comment. It always helps me to get feedback so I can get NUFC as accurate as possible.

The Mikel Antia and Paco de Miguel job roles are interesting. As you rightly stated, Antia is listed as 1st Team Coach, however Rafa Benitez, always refers to him as his "assistant" (he even puts this on his website)!

I have wrestled with the Ben Dawson situation as Peter Beardley is still technically the Under 23s Manager. Until his case is resolved and a decision is made, he will remain (by title at least) the U23 Manager.

Sean Beech states on his LinkedIn that he is a 1st Team Physio.

Thanks for alerting me to Jamie Harley's role change.

Keep up the good work, and enjoy the game!

Cheers,

Kev.

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2 horas atrás, santy001 disse:

Hardly happy, it wasn't me who made the error initially and you still haven't presented anything to warrant a change.

Because it goes without saying doesn't it? As potentially the last researcher to review Zouma, I didn't see any reason to change it. That was my opinion, and "Is he really" doesn't make me re-think it at least.

Surely a final year student of any discipline would know that's not how you make an argument for or against something. 

It's worth mentioning that the acceleration of Zouma is one reason why I left alone his anticipation, positioning and concentration. They aren't the best for a defender, meaning better attackers will still have the beating of him. It's a part of the overall package that is supposed to represent Zouma. He doesn't have the best mental attributes of a defender, but he compensates for this with his tremendous speed. Acceleration like that is something that can leave a player quite quickly, but it was definitely there in spades last season. 

The discussion is a valid one, but try to factor in the player as a whole and what it means/does in FM because Zouma is set up for a certain style of defending. 

First of all I accept and respect your opinion, if you say he deserves such high value for acceleration I believe it, point taken. Just saying that I know very well that acceleration and pace are two completely different things, I only brought that up simply because of the fact that big tall guys who are fast in the long run will usually have a slower start, being unable to get off the mark quickly because of their weight and size compared to shorter and lighter guys, that said, I expected Zouma to be one more of those cases as I never really saw him accelerate on his run but wasn't expecting him to be more "explosive" than the likes of Varane and Manolas. That is why I mentioned that Zouma's acceleration should be less than his pace because that is what you usually see in the game for tall and strong players, correct me if I'm wrong there. Anyway, I'm fine with the decision to keep his acceleration at 19, just wanted to clarify things.

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2 hours ago, santy001 said:

Hardly happy, it wasn't me who made the error initially and you still haven't presented anything to warrant a change.

Because it goes without saying doesn't it? As potentially the last researcher to review Zouma, I didn't see any reason to change it. That was my opinion, and "Is he really" doesn't make me re-think it at least.

Surely a final year student of any discipline would know that's not how you make an argument for or against something. 

It's worth mentioning that the acceleration of Zouma is one reason why I left alone his anticipation, positioning and concentration. They aren't the best for a defender, meaning better attackers will still have the beating of him. It's a part of the overall package that is supposed to represent Zouma. He doesn't have the best mental attributes of a defender, but he compensates for this with his tremendous speed. Acceleration like that is something that can leave a player quite quickly, but it was definitely there in spades last season. 

The discussion is a valid one, but try to factor in the player as a whole and what it means/does in FM because Zouma is set up for a certain style of defending. 

I personally can't believe that acceleration stat, but I respect your stance as the researcher since I imagine you have watched Zouma a lot more than me. Someone of Zouma's size to have the same acceleration of Mbappe or Aubameyang is quite incredible, I mean you're getting to the point where you're going against the laws of physics. However, @NabsKebabs brings up a brilliant point which I had never thought about; is the FM acceleration attribute a measure of classic acceleration (which is independent of top speed) or is it a measure of how fast a player can reach his personal top speed - these are similar but different. If it's the latter, then the 19 acceleration for Zouma becomes more plausible.

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Acceleration is simply how fast he gets to full speed from a standing start. 

Pace is how fast the player can run at top speed without the ball, and then dribbling and technique serve as considerable factors when judging a players pace when he has the ball.

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Just now, santy001 said:

Acceleration is simply how fast he gets to full speed from a standing start. 

Pace is how fast the player can run at top speed without the ball, and then dribbling and technique serve as considerable factors when judging a players pace when he has the ball.

That's fine. That essentially means that Mbappe's classic acceleration is faster than Zouma's despite Zouma having a higher acceleration attribute. Am I right?

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4 minutes ago, santy001 said:

Acceleration is simply how fast he gets to full speed from a standing start. 

Pace is how fast the player can run at top speed without the ball, and then dribbling and technique serve as considerable factors when judging a players pace when he has the ball.

This is a genuine question, and separate from the Zouma points, but do slow players typically take significantly longer to hit their maximum speed? I'd have thought that there were a number of slow players who are able to hit their highest speed quite early, but we never/rarely see attributes such as Acceleration: 18 + Pace: 8 do we?

 

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It makes more sense for acceleration to work that way. I just wasn't expecting Zouma with his size and weight to be one of the players who can get the quickest to his top speed of 15 which for a centre back is already above average.

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this is an interesting discussion actually.

It comes down to whether or not pace is actually factored into the acceleration attribute in FM. If not, I would've expected to see higher variation in acceleration and pace as @toshj mentions. 

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James McArthur has retired from international football hopefully just in time to be updated in this.

 

 

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12 minutos atrás, toshj disse:

This is a genuine question, and separate from the Zouma points, but do slow players typically take significantly longer to hit their maximum speed? I'd have thought that there were a number of slow players who are able to hit their highest speed quite early, but we never/rarely see attributes such as Acceleration: 18 + Pace: 8 do we?

 

I've seen Jan Kirchhoff having like 9 acceleration and 18 pace in one FM which is a massive gap in the two values but never seen it the other way around.

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21 minuti fa, CEVR1996 ha scritto:

It makes more sense for acceleration to work that way. I just wasn't expecting Zouma with his size and weight to be one of the players who can get the quickest to his top speed of 15 which for a centre back is already above average.

Barzagli 3 years ago reached 35,6km/h 

Edited by ParanoidBuddha

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17 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

this is an interesting discussion actually.

It comes down to whether or not pace is actually factored into the acceleration attribute in FM. If not, I would've expected to see higher variation in acceleration and pace as @toshj mentions. 

I asked for specifics about the relationship between pace and acceleration a few years ago and didn't get any definitive answers.

Either Acceleration is an independent attribute linked to specific metres per second per second rates (so two players with the same ACC starting from a standstill would move at the same rate until they hit their respective top speeds) , or it's tied to the player's overall pace, and a player gains a specific percentage of their top speed per second (so the player with the higher top speed would always move faster, but both would reach that top speed at the same time). Or maybe it's neither (or both).

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5 minutes ago, toshj said:

This is a genuine question, and separate from the Zouma points, but do slow players typically take significantly longer to hit their maximum speed? I'd have thought that there were a number of slow players who are able to hit their highest speed quite early, but we never/rarely see attributes such as Acceleration: 18 + Pace: 8 do we?

 

There's multiple ways and I can't of course answer for different researchers. But take a look at Peter Crouch - it's the reverse situation to what you describe, but I've gone there with someone who can cover ground quite quickly (getting back up field after set pieces) but has atrocious burst speed and his ability to move with the ball is tempered by his dribbling. 

It's a tough to flesh too much out here because the guide on acceleration/pace is less definitive than say the jumping attribute, the best thing I can think to say though is to think about the players in question, but it always has to be through the lens of the complete package of that player. For example, a player may have a high dribbling technique to go with a lower pace to represent the researchers opinion they don't necessarily move all that fast, but they still move fast with the ball at their feet.

The inner workings of pace/acceleration and their relationship hasn't ever been publicly disclosed to the best of my knowledge. But its a very murky area since the introduction of speeds has as @ParanoidBuddha mentioned seen players you don't think of as fast, hitting the highest speeds. I seem to recall Wayne Rooney in his later years in the premier league being a frequent feature at the top end, despite the fact he didn't seem to beat many people for pace at that time.

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I think we all more or less accept the Zouma stat wont be changed but it's definitely a discussion that should be had because I wouldn't be surprised if there was some misalignment here. To measure acceleration as the time taken for a particular person to reach their own particular top speed seems incredibly difficult. I imagine personal acceleration is a lot easier to code into the ME however classic acceleration would be easier to quantify. @toshj's point seems very valid to me, slow players with slow acceleration shouldn't be as prevalent as they are if acceleration is truly meant to be as @santy001 put it.

For example take Naldo, 8 acceleration 11 pace

Take Mbappe, 18 acceleration 20 pace

for sake of arguement lets say Naldo acceleration is 9 and pace is 10, half of Mbappe's

a = (deltav)/t

this would mean Mbappe reaches Naldo's top speed 4 times quicker than Naldo does. That's highly unlikely.

But I digress :D I hope the guidelines around speed are clarified further in the future but I appreciate it's probably very difficult.

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A bit more clarity would help with players like Dan James, who is - in basic terms - absolutely rapid. But he also takes quite a long time to reach his top speed. He can beat a lot of players in the Championship with a quick burst over 5 yards, but when he gets some space to open out he seems to find 2 or 3 extra gears that players around him simply don't have.

Is that good ACC (current rating in the database is 15) or would a lower ACC value (maybe 8-10) be more appropriate in the match engine, bolstered by his high PAC value (I seem to remember Bale and Ronaldo having similar attribute distributions two or three FMs ago)?

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I have to agree that although I feel like the more complex measurement for the acceleration stat as it was mentioned here would be the most accurate one, it would indeed be very difficult to come up with because it would take a very detailed and long analysis of each player in order to obtain a seemingly accurate value.

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I just noticed that the physical stats for Marko Arnautovic are really low. Acceleration is 13, Pace is 15 and Strength only 14. He is surely one of the strongest players in the Premier League and also lightning fast? He bullies every central defender in the league. Seems to me that these stats are not high enough, especially his strength.

Edited by Sandeman

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1 hour ago, toshj said:

This is a genuine question, and separate from the Zouma points, but do slow players typically take significantly longer to hit their maximum speed? I'd have thought that there were a number of slow players who are able to hit their highest speed quite early, but we never/rarely see attributes such as Acceleration: 18 + Pace: 8 do we?

 

Other than Anthony Annan from HJK with 16 Acceleration and 10 Pace, there's no one close to be that extreme existing unless the randomly generated ones in this year's database I believe, but if we're talking something like ≥15 Acceleration and ≤12 Pace then there are plenty of players having that gap of values, mostly consisting of the shorter players which is pretty sensible.

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tbh researcher guidelines really ought to include basic examples like of what distances a 15 acc 12 pace player might beat a 12 acc 15 pace player over... (holding things like effort and condition constant)

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Didn't Tottenham bought Fernando Llorente in the summer before the start of the 17/18 season? Because in the game, his history shows that he went to Tottenham last season with no fee showing but then went back to Swansea during the same season and got transfered to Spurs on the last transfer window for 13.75M €. Wasn't that what he costed one year ago? By the way things stand at the moment, he will be impossible to sell in the first transfer window because of that.

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vor 20 Stunden schrieb Philip Rolfe:

There needs to be more tangible proof than Transfermarkt for additional nationalities please. That's not to say they're wrong but, as they have a history of being less than certain with some of their biographical info, it helps to have (more) solid evidence. Thanks.

Where else do you get the data from? I really don't want to appear rude, but I don't think that transfermarkt.com has taken this data out of the air.

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6 hours ago, Simon Tipple said:

This has been set by our Italian colleagues. 

The Argus suggested it would become permanent, but shouldn't be yet - https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/16328448.albion-set-to-make-a-quick-profit-on-defender-ales-mateju/

Is it something you can change back?  With the deal being suggested that it will go through at 4.4million that is money that won't go through to Brighton in the game in June/July 2019. If you didn't set this then I guess you also haven't been able to take that transfer value into account when setting the balance and transfer budget? 

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