Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
Pete Sottrel

[ENGLAND] Premier Division Data Issues

Recommended Posts

22 minutos atrás, Dan Ormsby disse:

You could argue that, yes, but I would disagree.  Please use the in-game editor to make these extremely marginal attribute changes if the current ever so slightly different ratings I have set are hindering your personal enjoyment of the game due to the lack of accuracy / realism.

They aren't really. All I did was giving my personal opinion without being offensive or accusing anyone of doing a poor job at rating players because I know its not an easy task but as a paying customer I think that I own the right to express an opinion, either other people agree with it or not, that isn't up to me but acting like me saying that I think a few attributes are too high or too low on a certain player is a personal insult to a researcher's work is simply a poor excuse to be cheeky in your replies and honestly that isn't going to make anyone respect your hard work more. @bangkonggedek touched on this before and at the time I didn't agree with him but now I see that he does have a good point. I'm done here and as you said, the game has an editor so no point in trying to discuss anything here when I can change it myself there if I want to. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutos atrás, diddydaddydoddy disse:

As mentioned previously in the thread, some of his attributes have been reduced from last year and I am happy with where he is currently.

Its fine. I'm not going to say anything to contradict it, if someone else wants to, then they can take this discussion from here because I wont mention this again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CEVR1996 said:

They aren't really. All I did was giving my personal opinion without being offensive or accusing anyone of doing a poor job at rating players because I know its not an easy task but as a paying customer I think that I own the right to express an opinion, either other people agree with it or not, that isn't up to me but acting like me saying that I think a few attributes are too high or too low on a certain player is a personal insult to a researcher's work is simply a poor excuse to be cheeky in your replies and honestly that isn't going to make anyone respect your hard work more. @bangkonggedek touched on this before and at the time I didn't agree with him but now I see that he does have a good point. I'm done here and as you said, the game has an editor so no point in trying to discuss anything here when I can change it myself there if I want to. 

Sorry, you're right.  My initial post was too strongly worded and that was unfair, I edited it about a minute later after realising my mistake.  I apologise.  In my defence I've been working 12 hour days the last few weeks and someone bringing up minor attribute quibbles then questioning the accuracy and realism of the game after it has been made clear the data has been locked tipped me over the edge.  But you are entitled to your opinion and for raising it, and of course I will review all the players before the next data update, as I do every time.  Sorry if I caused any offence and do genuinely hope you're enjoying the game!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CEVR1996 said:

Its fine. I'm not going to say anything to contradict it, if someone else wants to, then they can take this discussion from here because I wont mention this again.

Football is all about opinions and I am far from infallible. However I do what I believe to be accurate at a given time and as always use the in-game editor to make changes if anything is hindering your game play.

Edited by diddydaddydoddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Applied to Bournemouth in May '19, appointed boss and was only given 3.5 million pounds to spend for the next window. They'd just finished 6th and qualified for the Europa League - seems really low when they spent a reported 25 million or so on Jefferson Lerma last season.

 

Ps, no pre-agreed transfers either...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, andycinoz said:

Applied to Bournemouth in May '19, appointed boss and was only given 3.5 million pounds to spend for the next window. They'd just finished 6th and qualified for the Europa League - seems really low when they spent a reported 25 million or so on Jefferson Lerma last season. 

 

Ps, no pre-agreed transfers either... 

Doesnt matter that there are pre-transfers arranged, what have they spent prior to that on transfers, agents fees, new contracts etc.  They do have a leagues 1 size ground and this would be taken into account as part of income.  Look at your finances and projected income, expenditure and you will find your answer.

FYI this isnt really a data issue. Bournmouth also spent 10 on Brooks and 11 on Rico plus 27 for Lerma, 47m is a pretty big outlay for a very small club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question re  Man Utd finances for January window, with no transfers allowed up to January, 'Mourinho' gets 180m. Their bank Balance is 385m and a wage budget of 3.8m p/w. Does this seem a bit high to people?

For comparison

Man City have 75m in bank, 100m TB and 4.2m wage.

Liverpool 97m in bank, 76m TB and 3.2 wage.

Chelsea 58m bank, 106m TB, 3.4m wage

Arsenal 265m bank, 98 TB, 3.3m wage

Tottenham 347 Bank, 92 TB 2.2 wage. (Their BANK seems high to me as majority of monies is going towards the stadium (net 600m in debt via bank loans), has this been taken into account  or is that 'savings' ready to be spent on the stadium, Just seems high to me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Max Kilman at Wolves has a really low CA and PA. He has been training with the first team since joining, and playing as the sweeper in our 3-4-3 formation for the U23s. He's got 25 caps for England futsal, which means absolutely nothing, but he's definitely good with his feet and held in very high regard by Nuno and our coaching staff. I would say his CA and PA need looking at, but if not, I understand, since he's relatively unknown. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/10/2018 at 14:41, Gripper said:

 

Sorry, you'll have to forgive my ignorance here as I am tired and a bit shellshocked, but I don't understand what you are telling me, plus I need more information.

Butler - when did he leave Birmingham please? When did he join Wolves? What job has he got at Wolves? Have you got proof of this, please?
Meek - when did he leave Birmingham please? When did he join Villa? What job has he got at Villa? Have you got proof of this, please? 

Has this been sorted @Gripper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎29‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 18:16, Nemisek18 said:

Dele Alli´s pace .... according to stats his pace is around 33km/h .... since Bale´s speed is around 34,4km/h seems really wrong that Dele´s acceleration is 12 and pace 11

Thanks for your feedback.  Alli is a curious one because he is a very good dribbler but almost always struggles to get away from his man and I can't recall him ever out pacing someone.  Quite often he'll get away from his man in the first couple of yards and then be caught and tackled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, SD said:

In 19.0 db there was an issue with three Spurs staff with exorbitant wages.

For 19.1 the assistant and GK coach have brought down to reasonable figures, but 1st team coach Miguel D'Agostino was missed and is still paid 35k p/w.

On the topic of spurs, Dele just signed a new contract today until 2024. Figure for wages varies between 100k and 150k, depending on the source(knowing Spur's wage structure it'd say 100k is more likely).

 

Hi, thanks for your feedback.  I've already captured Alli's new contract for the next round of DB updates.

Regarding D'Agostino, a more accurate wage will be assigned in the next db update.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎29‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 16:26, CEVR1996 said:

Didn't Tottenham bought Fernando Llorente in the summer before the start of the 17/18 season? Because in the game, his history shows that he went to Tottenham last season with no fee showing but then went back to Swansea during the same season and got transfered to Spurs on the last transfer window for 13.75M €. Wasn't that what he costed one year ago? By the way things stand at the moment, he will be impossible to sell in the first transfer window because of that.

Thanks, not really sure how that one slipped through the net.  I took over after Llorente signed but I did go back and check through all player histories.  Or at least I thought I did.  I must have missed this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, GSevensM75 said:

Hi, thanks for your feedback.  I've already captured Alli's new contract for the next round of DB updates.

Regarding D'Agostino, a more accurate wage will be assigned in the next db update.

Cheers, mate. I'm going to use this opportunity to congratulate you for how well you've managed to capture Dele's brilliance and hair tearing lapses all in one. I was a bit surprised he lost natural proficiency at MC, but I'm going to trust your judgement on this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SD said:

Cheers, mate. I'm going to use this opportunity to congratulate you for how well you've managed to capture Dele's brilliance and hair tearing lapses all in one. I was a bit surprised he lost natural proficiency at MC, but I'm going to trust your judgement on this one.

He's a difficult one to judge generally.  Poch has had him mainly playing up front and on the left of the three behind the striker.  He has played the odd game in central midfield and looked decent against Real Madrid, but I think he has looked frail otherwise.

I've been experimenting with him a lot because I want to make sure he gets picked (and Eriksen usually gets picked in front of him).  I think I may have to fudge it a bit in the next round of updates to make him more natural at AML so that he is less competition with Eriksen.

I'd be very grateful to you, and any other Spurs fans reading this, if you could feedback how you utilise the players and where you feel they may differ from real life in terms of competency of where you are playing them in a formation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, GSevensM75 said:

He's a difficult one to judge generally.  Poch has had him mainly playing up front and on the left of the three behind the striker.  He has played the odd game in central midfield and looked decent against Real Madrid, but I think he has looked frail otherwise.

I've been experimenting with him a lot because I want to make sure he gets picked (and Eriksen usually gets picked in front of him).  I think I may have to fudge it a bit in the next round of updates to make him more natural at AML so that he is less competition with Eriksen.

I'd be very grateful to you, and any other Spurs fans reading this, if you could feedback how you utilise the players and where you feel they may differ from real life in terms of competency of where you are playing them in a formation.

So far in beta I've been experimenting with a narrow formation that had him and Eriksen play behind Kane, without much success, though.

Back in FM18 he was terrible for me in any wide roles, did well as BBM in a 4-1-2-3 or AM(a) in a 4-2-3-1, but was absolutely brilliant as SV(a) in a 4-2-1-3.

Eriksen has played almost exclusively as wide AP on the left flank.

The problem with Dele in FM is that wide roles are overly reliant on pace, and the most commonly used ones have increased dribbling, further exacerbating one of his problems.

Edited by SD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dan Ormsby 

Shkodran Mustafi should probably have the PPM "Dives into tackles" - a very common trait of his really

Laurent Koscielny's injury return date should be involving a return to light training on 23rd August and a return to full training on 17th October.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SD said:

So far in beta I've been experimenting with a narrow formation that had him and Eriksen play behind Kane, without much success, though.

Back in FM18 he was terrible for me in any wide roles, did well as BBM in a 4-1-2-3 or AM(a) in a 4-2-3-1, but was absolutely brilliant as SV(a) in a 4-2-1-3.

Eriksen has played almost exclusively as wide AP on the left flank.

The problem with Dele in FM is that wide roles are overly reliant on pace, and the most commonly used ones have increased dribbling, further exacerbating one of his problems.

I've found it very hard to tactically replicate Poch's 4-2-3-1, as the three behind Kane roam so much and depending on who is playing on the flanks, we can play quite narrow.  For example, if Alli is on the "left" he tends to start central and drift into the left channel.  If Son starts on the left, he tends to start on the left and then come inside.  Same formation, but different players play it differently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given the recent news from Arsenal should Aaron Ramsey be transfer listed when the game starts? Or at the very least the AI should not offer him a new contract...

@Dan Ormsby

Edited by Vicz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vicz said:

Given the recent news from Arsenal should Aaron Ramsey be transfer listed when the game starts? Or at the very least the AI should not offer him a new contract...

@Dan Ormsby

Too late to go into the initial release.  I don't agree that he should be transfer listed.  We could perhaps set something DB side that he will leave at the end of his contract.  Will talk to Pete and see what he thinks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, llama3 said:

@Dan Ormsby 

Shkodran Mustafi should probably have the PPM "Dives into tackles" - a very common trait of his really

Laurent Koscielny's injury return date should be involving a return to light training on 23rd August and a return to full training on 17th October.

Those dates would not work in-game, as a return to full training equates to being available for selection and ready to play for the first team, which Koscielny is clearly not at this stage.  I wouldn't expect him back in action before the Bournemouth match on Nov 25th, so he will return roughly 4-6 weeks later in game. Apologies for this, but when I set the return date earlier in the cycle this was an accurate estimated return date and it was an oversight not to revisit this in my final data update to bring it forward slightly.  It is now too late to change.  Please use the in game editor to alter this if it will affect your enjoyment of the game.

That PPM for Mustafi was discussed last year and I decided not to enter it.  He does dive in to some tackles, yes, but it's not like he's constantly sliding about on his backside, he can also be good at standing off and nipping in.  I'll pay close attention to this between now and the next main data update and will add it in if he is making too many rash sliding challenges, it is too late for consideration for entry now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Too late to go into the initial release.  I don't agree that he should be transfer listed.  We could perhaps set something DB side that he will leave at the end of his contract.  Will talk to Pete and see what he thinks.

Leaving at the end of contract is a player's decision in the game. It's the club/manager that have decided not to offer him a new contract irl.

If that gets set then human managers won't be able to offer him a new deal if they want to keep him, which he seems entirely open to (provided they meet his insane asking price).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, swansongs said:

Leaving at the end of contract is a player's decision in the game. It's the club/manager that have decided not to offer him a new contract irl.

If that gets set then human managers won't be able to offer him a new deal if they want to keep him, which he seems entirely open to (provided they meet his insane asking price).

This is why I said I'd discuss it with Pete, there isn't an easy solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Dan Ormsby said:

This is why I said I'd discuss it with Pete, there isn't an easy solution.

I would suggest transfer listing him is the easy solution lol. Assuming there isn't functionality to program in AI reluctance to offer a new deal, the next best thing is surely to program in AI willingness to sell - which can be done. Though I agree they have not listed him, they would clearly take reasonable offers.

Look forward to seeing how you deal with it. Cheers for response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, swansongs said:

Leaving at the end of contract is a player's decision in the game. It's the club/manager that have decided not to offer him a new contract irl.

If that gets set then human managers won't be able to offer him a new deal if they want to keep him, which he seems entirely open to (provided they meet his insane asking price).

 

1 hour ago, Dan Ormsby said:

This is why I said I'd discuss it with Pete, there isn't an easy solution.

I think the best solution is to simply higher his wage demands as I suggested already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 31/10/2018 at 12:51, Dan Ormsby said:

Yes, he does.

As an arsenal fan I'm yet to see him leave opposing players like he used to go in germany, But I also believe his finishing and composure is a little low so it evens itself out i guess.

Not criticizing btw I just dont think he uses his pace like he used to in matches, we all know he smashed bellerins record

Edited by jere_d

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

 

I think the best solution is to simply higher his wage demands as I suggested already. 

The fact is we dont know the reason why the contract was rejected so we cant take that away from a human manager. It down to them to decide.  In my beta with 19.1 data, he wants 150 basic, plus 25 per appearance plus add ons. 175 sounds not far off. especially with a signing on fee of 5m plus agents plus 3.5m loyalty.  If the human (and in some ways IRL) manager feels that his outlay of the next 3/4 yrs can be spend on a better player or ones that fits their style who are we to stop them.

Also have to look at potential internal replacements such as Maitland Niles.

In mine i renewed but doesn't mean i wont sell him,.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@GSevensM75

Great work with the Tottenham data, I think you've got the players pretty much bang on. The only thing I wanted to raise was that according to the Editor the New Stadium has an expansion capacity of over 77,000. I could be wrong but I think Levy has said before that there is minimal expansion capacity in the current structure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jere_d said:

As an arsenal fan I'm yet to see him leave opposing players like he used to go in germany, But I also believe his finishing and composure is a little low so it evens itself out i guess.

Not criticizing btw I just dont think he uses his pace like he used to in matches, we all know he smashed bellerins record

The main reason was that he had more opportunities to run at full speed in Bundesliga, because many teams play stupidly higher defensive line when compared to the teams in Premier League.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bangkonggedek said:

The main reason was that he had more opportunities to run at full speed in Bundesliga, because many teams play stupidly higher defensive line when compared to the teams in Premier League.

Yeah the prem is very defensive but there have been opportunities for him and i'm yet to see him utilize his pace. For example we always see salah and mane exploiting their pace irrespective of deep defensive lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, RageMaster said:

@GSevensM75

Great work with the Tottenham data, I think you've got the players pretty much bang on. The only thing I wanted to raise was that according to the Editor the New Stadium has an expansion capacity of over 77,000. I could be wrong but I think Levy has said before that there is minimal expansion capacity in the current structure.

I could be wrong but I'd read slightly differently. The structure should support an increased capacity pretty easily - indeed you can see already that the roof is far higher than the back row which makes things significantly easier. They've also stated that the seats are considerably further apart than the minimum allowed so you could definitely squeeze several thousand more in by making them closer together. The problem, however, is transport links. They're pretty rubbish and we frankly probably shouldn't have got planning permission for 62k. There's no chance of significantly more being approved until they're improved - most plausibly by either a Victoria Line extension to Northumberland Park (not currently on the agenda), or the construction of Crossrail 2 (approved in theory for the early 2030s but with funding which'd be needed from central government not yet agreed). As far as I know though there isn't any way to tell the game that the stadium could be expanded, but not until 2033 or so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 31/10/2018 at 13:20, tomlcfc said:

- Ben's stats were set back in May/June following 6 months of dreadful defensive displays. He has improved this season but I hadn't seen enough of him by data lock to suggest big increases. He is top of the list for the next update right now, but this can easily change if we suddenly go back to his 17-18 form. Disagree on his first touch though, and he still very rarely takes set pieces. He is another player we are hyping up just because he has got into the least competitive England side in history: our defence is still ridiculously exposed as seen vs. Arsenal - Bellerin tore him a new one.

I'm hardly hyping him up. He clearly had talent being an England U21 LB. It's no surprise after a sustained run in the team he is proving himself and looking less nervous defensively with more and more experience. A few touted him to be an England player eventually it's just he's progressed very quickly recently.

But I respect your opinion .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/10/2018 at 17:46, diddydaddydoddy said:

I put Buvac as Unavailable for Personal Reasons, however have been told that 'unavailabilities' don't work for non-playing staff. Hence him now being down as NFE. I also changed Krawietz to Assistant Manager in his absence

Not that I disagree with your decision, I'm just wondering why you set Krawietz as the assistant instead of Lijnders? I've read several places that Lijnders have taken up the role Buvac had.

One example here: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/pep-lijnders-steps-up-jurgen-14937907

Other sites like transfermarks also have Lijnders at assistant, though I have no idea what the source is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@XaW Krawietz was officially referred to as Klopp's second assistant coach, with Buvac being first assistant coach. So by default and with no official confirmation, I have simply elevated Krawietz to first assistant coach - which in the game is Assistant Manager. I've read that Echo link and don't see that as definitive to be honest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at Liverpool in the editor:

I thought Robertson had too big of a gap between his current ability and his potential ability. He's already playing out of his mind irl,  I would be really surprised if he could play even better. His current ability was also slightly too low, he's been performing as a top class PL fullback for a long time now. Solution: I gave him +1 stats where it was warranted, and raised his CA. Lowered his PA as well.

Moreno's reputation was higher than Robertson's, so I lowered that along with his CA by a couple of points (mental stats were lowered to accompany that change).

I made Gini a viable alternative to Hendo by raising his CA up to his level. Mental stats along with Balance and Pace was increased a bit.

Noticed we don't have any top world class talents outside of the first team, but that's sadly fair. Again, good job!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

@XaW Krawietz was officially referred to as Klopp's second assistant coach, with Buvac being first assistant coach. So by default and with no official confirmation, I have simply elevated Krawietz to first assistant coach - which in the game is Assistant Manager. I've read that Echo link and don't see that as definitive to be honest.

Yeah, I kind of agree, I've just seen Lijnders referred to as assistant manager more than Krawietz in media and such, so I thought I'd ask anyway. Thanks for the answer! :thup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically I wanted to add the following managers as directors of football. 

Glenn Hoddle 

Graeme Souness 

Kevin Keegan 

But they don't even appear in the data editor is there a way to bring them back. I know everyone won't want this but surely you can sit them in the Editor for people who do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Spurs08 said:

I could be wrong but I'd read slightly differently. The structure should support an increased capacity pretty easily - indeed you can see already that the roof is far higher than the back row which makes things significantly easier. They've also stated that the seats are considerably further apart than the minimum allowed so you could definitely squeeze several thousand more in by making them closer together. The problem, however, is transport links. They're pretty rubbish and we frankly probably shouldn't have got planning permission for 62k. There's no chance of significantly more being approved until they're improved - most plausibly by either a Victoria Line extension to Northumberland Park (not currently on the agenda), or the construction of Crossrail 2 (approved in theory for the early 2030s but with funding which'd be needed from central government not yet agreed). As far as I know though there isn't any way to tell the game that the stadium could be expanded, but not until 2033 or so.

At this stage I'd be happy if we just had the 62k stadium to use and knew what it was going to be called :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Mr Ford 1877 said:

Basically I wanted to add the following managers as directors of football. 

Glenn Hoddle 

Graeme Souness 

Kevin Keegan 

But they don't even appear in the data editor is there a way to bring them back. I know everyone won't want this but surely you can sit them in the Editor for people who do. 

You can create them yourself in the editor...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, GSevensM75 said:

At this stage I'd be happy if we just had the 62k stadium to use and knew what it was going to be called :-)

Hah, that'd be nice :D can't wait for it, really hope we'll be in for January or February at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Victor Moses' attributes really need a look at

Crossing 10 > 9
Dribbling 14>13
Finishing 11 > 8
First Touch 12 > 14
Heading 10 > 11
Long Shots 11 > 8
Marking 4 > 10/11

Aggression 11  > 12
Anticipation 10 > 11
Bravery 9 > 11
Concentration 8 > 10
Decisions 15 > 11/12
Determination 8 > 13
Work Rate 18 > 15

Acceleration 16 > 15
Balance 14 > 16
Pace 15 > 13
Strength 18 > 13/14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, y0lo said:

Victor Moses' attributes really need a look at

Crossing 10 > 9
Dribbling 14>13
Finishing 11 > 8
First Touch 12 > 14
Heading 10 > 11
Long Shots 11 > 8
Marking 4 > 10/11

Aggression 11  > 12
Anticipation 10 > 11
Bravery 9 > 11
Concentration 8 > 10
Decisions 15 > 11/12
Determination 8 > 13
Work Rate 18 > 15

Acceleration 16 > 15
Balance 14 > 16
Pace 15 > 13
Strength 18 > 13/14

You'll need to back up your changes with evidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Scotty Walds said:

You'll need to back up your changes with evidence.


What kind of evidence?

The attributes are based on a researchers subjective opinion. I have just given mine.

Edited by y0lo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, y0lo said:


What kind of evidence?

The attributes are based on a researchers subjective opinion. I have just given mine.

But in order for the researcher to reconsider, evidence is required.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Scotty Walds said:

But in order for the researcher to reconsider, evidence is required.

And I asked you, what kind of evidence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, y0lo said:

And I asked you, what kind of evidence?

Stats, video examples, manager interviews about a player... have you read the 1st post in this thread?

Quote

We also request you please adhere to the following three point plan when posting in the data topics:

·         State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.                

·         State what you think the data should be.                              

·         State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.        

 

Edited by Scotty Walds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...