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Pete Sottrel

[ENGLAND] Premier Division Data Issues

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Please post any data issues related to the English Premier division here.

As much of the data is subjective we’d ask that you respect everyone’s opinion and accept that the final decision is that of our club researchers and our heads of research.

We also request you please adhere to the following three point plan when posting in the data topics:

·         State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.               

·         State what you think the data should be.                              

·         State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                        

Please note that any non-data issues for the English Premier division should be posted in the appropriate thread within the League Specific Issues Forum. This would include issues such as league scheduling and league rules.

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Can we get Jamie Vardy's international retirement (28/08/2018) in before full release? I also believe Gary Cahill does not have his retirement set either (same day).

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3 minutes ago, tomlcfc said:

Can we get Jamie Vardy's international retirement (28/08/2018) in before full release? I also believe Gary Cahill does not have his retirement set either (same day).

Thanks Tom - done.

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Why is there a thread for the whole league - the most played one in the game - rather than individual clubs this year?

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Some Palace data for you Pete.

Steven Reid has quit football indefinitely (i won't say why on here) and Dave Reddington has replaced him. - 

 

Nya Kirby has signed a new contract. Believe he is on about £6-7k p/w  https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/2018/october/kirby-signs-new-contract/

Connor Wickham should still be injured at the start of the game. Played his first game (for first team or u23's) vs Dulwich last week after a set back in the summer.

Zaha signed a new contract until 2023. Highest paid player player at the club. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/15/wilfried-zaha-signs-new-deal-to-become-best-paid-player-at-crystal-palace

Max Meyer needs his wage reducing because of the above.

Scott Dann same as Wickham.

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46 minutes ago, CEVR1996 said:

I'm wondering why are Alberto Moreno's and Hector Bellerin's defensive attributes still so high? They both have shown to be defensive liabilities in their teams, they just aren't nearly as good at defending as those stats show considering their real life performances, just doesn't seem accurate seeing how there are so many fullbacks who are more competent in defence and have lower defensive attributes than both of them. I think I am speaking for a lot of people here as I've seen this topic being discussed quite a few times in the past but this is by no means an attempt to call the researchers imcompetent or anything like that but I think its something that should be brought onto the table for discussion

Bellerin's high defensive stats?

All his defensive stats are 12 or below except for tackling at 14. He isn't as bad as people think, he just gets exposed due to Arsenal's consistent tactical failings tbh.

His physical stats are the one ones that are above average and he's fairly rated tbh.

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26 minutos atrás, Karl_BD disse:

Bellerin's high defensive stats?

All his defensive stats are 12 or below except for tackling at 14. He isn't as bad as people think, he just gets exposed due to Arsenal's consistent tactical failings tbh.

His physical stats are the one ones that are above average and he's fairly rated tbh.

I didn't meant Bellerin's defensive stats are high by the rating standards but some of them like marking and positioning seem a little too generous when looking at the stats which were given to other fullbacks in the game who aren't worse defenders than him imo. But anyway, I am not asking for radical changes, only looking for other people's point of view on the topic and I gave my opinion by comparing stats of other players in the game not just by looking at Bellerin's profile.

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3 minutes ago, CEVR1996 said:

I didn't meant Bellerin's defensive stats are high by the rating standards but some of them like marking and positioning seem a little too generous when looking at the stats which were given to other fullbacks in the game who aren't worse defenders than him imo. But anyway, I am not asking for radical changes, only looking for other people's point of view on the topic and I gave my opinion by comparing stats of other players in the game not just by looking at Bellerin's profile.

His positioning is 12, which is very average. What better defenders do you think have lower than that? 

I think that some of his mentals flatter to deceive, like determination, work rate and bravery at 15 make his overall stats look more impressive than they actually are, plus the fact that he performs very well defensively thanks to his pace which is extremely strong in the match engine. 

He isn't a great defender but I wouldn't say he's terrible either and imo his stats reflect that.

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56 minutes ago, Karl_BD said:

Bellerin's high defensive stats?

All his defensive stats are 12 or below except for tackling at 14. He isn't as bad as people think, he just gets exposed due to Arsenal's consistent tactical failings tbh.

His physical stats are the one ones that are above average and he's fairly rated tbh.

I agree completely on Moreno. For years now on FM, I've been very successful as Liverpool manager (don't think I've not won a league title in every season since about five FMs ago), but I always struggle to find a left back that is worth upgrading to as Moreno is so over-rated. Even very good players with better star ratings, when you compare them to Moreno side by side, are not as good.

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Harvey Elliot isn't on the game. Played for Fulham's first team in the league cup

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2 minutes ago, Tizzles said:

Harvey Elliot isn't on the game. Played for Fulham's first team in the league cup

He's still only 15 so is too young to be included in the game.

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1 hour ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

Wes Morgan is starting in Leicester's Under 23s when in real life he has played every game when fit and not suspened

Thanks, lcfcbluearmy. I won't change his ratings, but will make it so that he starts in the first team squad.

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5 minutos atrás, Karl_BD disse:

His positioning is 12, which is very average. What better defenders do you think have lower than that? 

I think that some of his mentals flatter to deceive, like determination, work rate and bravery at 15 make his overall stats look more impressive than they actually are, plus the fact that he performs very well defensively thanks to his pace which is extremely strong in the match engine. 

He isn't a great defender but I wouldn't say he's terrible either and imo his stats reflect that.

João Cancelo, Oscar de Marcos, Marcelo, Filipe Luís, Pavel Kaderabek, Philipp Max and there are some others with very identical stats to Bellerin which I feel that should be noticeably better than him at defending, this is just talking about the defending aspect not the overall quality of player. None of these players I mentioned has the pace Bellerin has so that's another thing to take into account. Once again, this is just an opinion and I dont think Bellerin deserves a big decrease in his defensive stats, just one or two less points here and there.

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2 hours ago, SL19 said:

Some Palace data for you Pete.

Steven Reid has quit football indefinitely (i won't say why on here) and Dave Reddington has replaced him. - 

 

Nya Kirby has signed a new contract. Believe he is on about £6-7k p/w  https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/2018/october/kirby-signs-new-contract/

Connor Wickham should still be injured at the start of the game. Played his first game (for first team or u23's) vs Dulwich last week after a set back in the summer.

Zaha signed a new contract until 2023. Highest paid player player at the club. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/15/wilfried-zaha-signs-new-deal-to-become-best-paid-player-at-crystal-palace

Max Meyer needs his wage reducing because of the above.

Scott Dann same as Wickham.

That's great info, Will - thanks very much!

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Charly Musonda, although he's currently on loan at Vitesse he is contracted to Chelsea.

Player has a previous Loan Spell missing from career Stats.

Charly Musonda was previously on loan at Celtic between January 2018 and May 2018 before he was recalled from loan.

He made 8 appearances during his loan spell at Celtic.

4 Scottish Premiership league appearances, 2 Europa League appearances and 2 Scottish Cup appearances.

Edited by Rossums

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2 hours ago, Walshieboy750 said:

Crystal Palace

Dougie Freedman (2015237) should have Harry Freedman (89065345) set as his son.

Thanks very much, Walshieboy750.

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Many Arsenal players are showing 'basic' English when they should have fluent or very good. Examples include Grant Xhaka, Stephan Lichtsteiner, Bernd Leno, Alexandre Lacazette, Pierre-Emerick Aubamayang and Sead Kolasinac. All have given interviews in English to the media over the past year in good English.

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I would like to know why Wolves are £100M in debt at the start of the game, and I’m advised not to offer a contract to John Ruddy, because of our financial situation. 

 

1st of all, Ruddy signed a contract not too long ago -

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2018/08/31/wolves-goalkeeper-john-ruddy-signs-new-deal/

 

2nd, and most importantly, our owners are LOADED. There’s no reason for Wolves to be in debt, especially since we complied with FFP last season in the Championship, and we HARDLY, spent too much this summer.

Edited by Gripper
deleted unnecessary trolling comments that are nothing to do with Wolves' spending

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6 hours ago, theyatty1 said:

Can we add Harvey Elliott to the fulham u18's?

He's an U16 player, so not eligible to be included into the game until next season.

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Hello, some of the Tottenham staff have very high wages. For example Jesus Perez (assistant manager) has £50k p/w, and the GK coach has £27k. Looking at other leading teams this seems to be approx 5x higher than usual. Last year Perez was paid approx £12k p/w and GK coach £8k.

Loving the beta though! :)  

Thanks

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5 hours ago, Erick1011 said:

I would like to know why Wolves are £100M in debt at the start of the game, and I’m advised not to offer a contract to John Ruddy, because of our financial situation. 

 

1st of all, Ruddy signed a contract not too long ago -

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2018/08/31/wolves-goalkeeper-john-ruddy-signs-new-deal/

 

2nd, and most importantly, our owners are LOADED. There’s no reason for Wolves to be in debt, especially since we complied with FFP last season in the Championship, and we HARDLY, spent too much this summer, as opposed to Fulham’s £100M thrown in the trash.

I would also agree with this regarding Wolves’ finances. Although I wouldn’t expect a ridiculous amount in the bank, I wouldn’t have expected them to be in the red. In my save couple of days into the season the board have taken out a bank loan to restructure the debt which would be unrealistic given the owners financial capabilities.

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23 minutes ago, mrhmw2 said:

Hello, some of the Tottenham staff have very high wages. For example Jesus Perez (assistant manager) has £50k p/w, and the GK coach has £27k. Looking at other leading teams this seems to be approx 5x higher than usual. Last year Perez was paid approx £12k p/w and GK coach £8k.

Loving the beta though! :) 

Thanks

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback.  Do you have any links backing up their pay?

It is hard to pin down correct salaries for staff but I'd expect the Manager to earn 3x to 5x more than the Assistant Manager.

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27 minutes ago, Pebder88 said:

I would also agree with this regarding Wolves’ finances. Although I wouldn’t expect a ridiculous amount in the bank, I wouldn’t have expected them to be in the red. In my save couple of days into the season the board have taken out a bank loan to restructure the debt which would be unrealistic given the owners financial capabilities.

Ditto for Everton starting £47m in the red, and taking out a £45m, 10yr bank loan in the first few days.

One of Moshiri's main aims when coming into the club was to reduce the externally held debt down to zero, which he did by repaying various loans. I don't see any reason for the negative balance or subsequent loan if we're aiming for realism?

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5 hours ago, Erick1011 said:

I would like to know why Wolves are £100M in debt at the start of the game, and I’m advised not to offer a contract to John Ruddy, because of our financial situation. 

 

1st of all, Ruddy signed a contract not too long ago -

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2018/08/31/wolves-goalkeeper-john-ruddy-signs-new-deal/

 

2nd, and most importantly, our owners are LOADED. There’s no reason for Wolves to be in debt, especially since we complied with FFP last season in the Championship, and we HARDLY, spent too much this summer, as opposed to Fulham’s £100M thrown in the trash.

 

26 minutes ago, Pebder88 said:

I would also agree with this regarding Wolves’ finances. Although I wouldn’t expect a ridiculous amount in the bank, I wouldn’t have expected them to be in the red. In my save couple of days into the season the board have taken out a bank loan to restructure the debt which would be unrealistic given the owners financial capabilities.

They are both a concern but I am sure they are being addressed. Remember this is still beta and the data lock has not been placed yet (least I think)

Neves and Ruddy's new contract have also not been added. Vinagre wage is also too high.

I am also very uncomfortable with the wages of Patricio and Moutinho. I understand they were both big "marquee" signings and Wolves owners are loaded, but it leaves a huge gap between those salaries and the rest of the side. Without sounding cheesy, that is not what "the pack" at Wolves are about.

I have not started a save with Wolves yet, but that combined with the finance issue means in-game it could develop into a very difficult management issue with huge implications in house. Total contrast to RL imo.

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3 hours ago, feltus89 said:

Silvino Louro is set as Assistant Manager for Man Utd. When it should be Mckenna or Carrick?

We don't have an assistant manager employed (in the traditional sense at least). Carrick and McKenna are both first team coaches and fulfil the role of AM between them in addition to their coaching duties. Louro definitely shouldn't be set as AM though.

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40 minutes ago, GSevensM75 said:

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback.  Do you have any links backing up their pay?

It is hard to pin down correct salaries for staff but I'd expect the Manager to earn 3x to 5x more than the Assistant Manager.

Hi @GSevensM75

Yeah I can imagine its hard to pin down - and no I don't have anything concrete I'm afraid. It was more based on what other Assistant managers/GK coaches are earning in FM at top clubs, and in previous FM games. 

Only thing I can find is that Poch is said to earn £5m per year. So if we used the x5, it would work out at approx. £20k per week for Jesus Perez. And you would assume a GK coach would earn half of that maybe? This would bring it approx. more in line with other Assistant Managers/GK coaches I have seen in game (though still very much at the top end).

It almost feels like the £50k for Perez and £27k for Toni Jimenez should be their monthly salary rather than weekly? Using that it matches their in game salaries from FM18 approx.

If I find anything else, I'll let you know :) 

Thanks

 

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40 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

Ditto for Everton starting £47m in the red, and taking out a £45m, 10yr bank loan in the first few days.

One of Moshiri's main aims when coming into the club was to reduce the externally held debt down to zero, which he did by repaying various loans. I don't see any reason for the negative balance or subsequent loan if we're aiming for realism?

I thought Moshiri paid off all debts and i thought we had a £80m "loan" with no interest with him.

We now appear to have 2 of these debts in-game for some reason, and massively in the red (both chairman loans repayable upon departure) 

 

This is from the 2017 Everton financial statements :

2017 League Position 7th

Average League Attendance 39,310

Revenue £171.3 

Wages/Turnover Ratio 61%

Operating Profit / (Loss) Before Player Trading £25.0m

Profit / (Loss) After Tax £30.6m

Net Assets / (Liabilities) £91.7m

Net Debt nil 

 

 

Edited by evertonmarc

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10 hours ago, Rossums said:

Charly Musonda, although he's currently on loan at Vitesse he is contracted to Chelsea.

Player has a previous Loan Spell missing from career Stats.

Charly Musonda was previously on loan at Celtic between January 2018 and May 2018 before he was recalled from loan.

He made 8 appearances during his loan spell at Celtic.

4 Scottish Premiership league appearances, 2 Europa League appearances and 2 Scottish Cup appearances.

Thanks, Rossums - that history line had erroneously been entered as a 2018/19 history, and thus wasn't appearing, in-game.  I've fixed it.

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Salah is faster than Mane in the game but in a recent interview they both agree that mane is quicker. https://youtu.be/jRsqG5E_SgQ 7:00

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11 minutes ago, Robbo LFC said:

Salah is faster than Mane in the game but in a recent interview they both agree that mane is quicker. https://youtu.be/jRsqG5E_SgQ 7:00

The previous season Mane said Salah was faster. Its hard to know as you'll never see them in a straight race - now theres an idea.

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50 minutes ago, mrhmw2 said:

Hi @GSevensM75

Yeah I can imagine its hard to pin down - and no I don't have anything concrete I'm afraid. It was more based on what other Assistant managers/GK coaches are earning in FM at top clubs, and in previous FM games. 

Only thing I can find is that Poch is said to earn £5m per year. So if we used the x5, it would work out at approx. £20k per week for Jesus Perez. And you would assume a GK coach would earn half of that maybe? This would bring it approx. more in line with other Assistant Managers/GK coaches I have seen in game (though still very much at the top end).

It almost feels like the £50k for Perez and £27k for Toni Jimenez should be their monthly salary rather than weekly? Using that it matches their in game salaries from FM18 approx.

If I find anything else, I'll let you know :)

Thanks

 

Cheers!  I'll look into the salaries and amend them accordingly.  £50K does seem too high.  Probably a typo error on my part......

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8 hours ago, Noshy87 said:

Many Arsenal players are showing 'basic' English when they should have fluent or very good. Examples include Grant Xhaka, Stephan Lichtsteiner, Bernd Leno, Alexandre Lacazette, Pierre-Emerick Aubamayang and Sead Kolasinac. All have given interviews in English to the media over the past year in good English.

Good shout, this is an oversight on my part.  Will do a full review of the squad and let Pete know.  Thanks.

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I really think Kurt Zouma's pace and acceleration should get a severe downgrade, considering his recent injuries have taken their toll and he's nowhere near as quick as he was.


Perhaps Bakayoko's poor year warrants a big downgrade as well? Emerson who hasn't seen any game time recently probably shouldn't be one of the top LBs in England. 

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13 hours ago, Dan Ormsby said:

He's still only 15 so is too young to be included in the game.

I've defiantly seen 15 year olds on there before...

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2 minutes ago, Tizzles said:

I've defiantly seen 15 year olds on there before...

 Really? When? Pretty sure they can't put them in due to labour laws.

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Not entirely sure what's causing the issue but Kurt Zouma's valuation at the start of the game seems way out of whack. I have him at £42 million, making him one of the most valuable players on Chelsea, and by far the most valuable defender at the club. I suspect it's probably an issue with his starting reputation, but it doesn't seem reasonable to rate him as one of the Premier League's most valuable defenders when he can barely even get playing time.

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Arsenal 

how come Juan Carlos is a coach at Arsenal and not an Assistant Manager  

i know we kept Bould but though he was more of the coach and Carlos who has been Emery Assistant Manager of a number of years was the Assistant 

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Just now, wesleymcuk said:

Arsenal 

how come Juan Carlos is a coach at Arsenal and not an Assistant Manager  

i know we kept Bould but though he was more of the coach and Carlos who has been Emery Assistant Manager of a number of years was the Assistant 

True. Arsenal's main assistant is Juan C Carcedo. Co-assistant is Bould. 

Perhaps engine limitations restricts each club to 1 assistant?

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25 minutes ago, Tizzles said:

I've defiantly seen 15 year olds on there before...

You can get newgens as young as 14 I believe, but in terms of real players, the only one I can think of in recent years was Martin Odegaard, but that was a unique situation where he personally requested to be in the game and we got written permission from his parents.

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19 minutes ago, wesleymcuk said:

Arsenal 

how come Juan Carlos is a coach at Arsenal and not an Assistant Manager  

i know we kept Bould but though he was more of the coach and Carlos who has been Emery Assistant Manager of a number of years was the Assistant 

It is not possible in game to have two assistants at a club side, so Bould remains as assistant (as his contract / position has not changed) and Carcedo has been put in as a first team coach.

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2 hours ago, metal_guitarist said:

We don't have an assistant manager employed (in the traditional sense at least). Carrick and McKenna are both first team coaches and fulfil the role of AM between them in addition to their coaching duties. Louro definitely shouldn't be set as AM though.

None of them are set as AM in the database - no-one is, to reflect the situation in real-life. Plan was to use non-player tendencies to ensure the club operated without one for now, but if we’re not going to be able to do this and the game is just going to choose a coach at random then we’ll look to set McKenna or Carrick as the AM as the best solution.

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@diddydaddydoddy: Liverpool are looking very good and players are performing as I would expect them to. Good job!

The only general thing I've noticed is that Clyne seems a bit too good. I can't really pinpoint what I would change, but he just performs a bit better that I would assume. I don't have any direct inputs as to what to change, so think of this as a general feedback, not a report of something wrong.

Other than that I'm a bit disappointed in a few youth ratings (Tagseth, Camacho, Hoever to mention a few) compared to what I expected, but I haven't been able to see many youth games the last few years and have only relied on reports, so I'll trust that you know better than me about this! :)

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