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Simon Tipple

[Scotland] Data Issues

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Id also add to above Stephen Kelly is starting to break into the team often on the bench now and getting tipped for big things, admittedly only got on the pitch for a few minutes against Ayr, but his PA seems to be between 1.5* and 3* in my load ups, not sure what this would refer to in the minus scale due to not having pre game editor but think a little boost would be good, -7 maybe fair alongside middleton? Mebude is another tipped for big things that seems to be in this -7 range, given the press around him taking him upto -8 wouldn't be bad, coaches hold him on same regard as Billy Gilmour who again I'm not sure on this year but was -8 last year. Rangers youth side last year went across europe beat a number of the top youth sides, I don't think this is really reflected in the game in players CA and PA.

I understand potential is very opinionated and hard to prove, so wouldnt argue too much at no changes here but feel Middleton and Mebude would be fair at -8 while Kelly and a few others at -7 Celtic have a huge advantage over Rangers in this area but i struggle to understand why this is the case. 

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1 hour ago, celtic_fc said:

I get that you've added u18 competitions this week (I'd ask why it was overlooked for so long but never mind) but is there any way you guys can push for the u18 changes to could be included in the next hotfix? If another one comes out before release.

 

26 minutes ago, Bryantonfan said:

It was very hard getting info on u18's set up as SFA and clubs don't make it easy to get this info but we sourced it now

Yup, that's what happened. The big Project Brave reconstruction happens and we say to ourselves "You know what would be fun? Lets overlook the new youth setup in FM19, that'll be a laugh!" As Bryan says, there was no info, zilch, heehaw, nowt whatsoever being given about how the U18 leagues would operate, but luckily it was eventually sourced.

Edited by Giro

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36 minutes ago, Bryantonfan said:

It was very hard getting info on u18's set up as SFA and clubs don't make it easy to get this info but we sourced it now

 

11 minutes ago, Giro said:

 

Yup, that's what happened. The big Project Brave reconstruction happens and we say to ourselves "You know what would be fun? Lets overlook the new youth setup in FM19, that'll be a laugh!" As Bryan says, there was no info, zilch, heehaw, nowt whatsoever being given about how the U18 leagues would operate, but luckily it was eventually sourced.

Cheers for clearing it up guys, just gutted it's not in there cause I really want to start my long term save. :thup:  So is there no way of pushing for it to be included in a future hotfix before release?  Assuming there is one.

Even by SFA standards that's pretty special. :D 

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It's made clear that this is a beta, and therefore you shouldn't expect to start any long term saves and expect the game will be perfect.

There's certainly no way to add competitions to an existing save.

I'm afraid you'll just have to hold off until the game's release.

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Just now, Stuart Milne said:

It's made clear that this is a beta, and therefore you shouldn't expect to start any long term saves and expect the game will be perfect.

There's certainly no way to add competitions to an existing save.

I'm afraid you'll just have to hold off until the game's release.

I wasn't complaining and yeah I know it would require a new save, and funnily enough I'm aware it's the beta, was just asking if it was possible for you guys to push for it to be included in any future hotfix seeing as the last one released included competition changes?

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9 minutes ago, celtic_fc said:

I wasn't complaining and yeah I know it would require a new save, and funnily enough I'm aware it's the beta, was just asking if it was possible for you guys to push for it to be included in any future hotfix seeing as the last one released included competition changes?

I have to be honest; it doesn't seem likely that it will be added to the beta before release.

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28 minutes ago, celtic_fc said:

 

Even by SFA standards that's pretty special. :D 

Check SFA site its rubbish 

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Paul Hanlon had a testimonial as part of the pre season but it hasn't been added to the game.

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6 hours ago, Bryantonfan said:

It was very hard getting info on u18's set up as SFA and clubs don't make it easy to get this info but we sourced it now

Will the Scottish youth Cup and u18 league come with past winners history? Or will it be a fresh start? 

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55 minutes ago, Chris Hamilton said:

Will the Scottish youth Cup and u18 league come with past winners history? Or will it be a fresh start? 

The u18 league is a new format, both in the game and real life. So no past winners.

Also, I can't guarantee the Youth Cup will be in. This wasn't info give to us (but I'll take responsibility for not seeking the info out) and it may be too late for inclusion. While very few people will be bothered about that, I understand you will, so rest assured it'll be easy to create with the pre-game editor.

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Appreciate that yous have had to add the reserve league and that back in  but I reported last year there was no youth cup so was hoping it would be included this time. Will wait and see cheers. 

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6 hours ago, Chris Hamilton said:

Appreciate that yous have had to add the reserve league and that back in  but I reported last year there was no youth cup so was hoping it would be included this time. Will wait and see cheers. 

Last year it wouldn’t have been on anyone’s radar as the structure was different.

We only included first team and u20s previously.

But like I say, if it’s not in this year I’ll hold my hands up and take the flak. And then I’ll look to include it for any future database.

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I know it was u20s last year but there was still a youth cup running in real life and there wasn’t one on the game.  https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-cup/youth-cup/fixtures-results/?type=results

and the youth cup has been running every season from 1983 with a full past winners section available so could it not be linked into the game? (whichever year you can get it into) 

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-cup/youth-cup/youth-cup-past-winners/

Thanks anyway, sure it won’t stop me bringing through wonder kids when I get Clyde or Edinburgh city into the Champions League haha! 

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Although karamoko dembele is only 15, he still plays with the reserves and actually scored today for the reserves. Is there no chance he will be added?

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1 minute ago, Conor2 said:

Although karamoko dembele is only 15, he still plays with the reserves and actually scored today for the reserves. Is there no chance he will be added?

He is under 16, still at school, so no. 

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Wiĺ all players on Development loan be seen as such or will they be seen as normal loans

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5 hours ago, jc1 said:

Wiĺ all players on Development loan be seen as such or will they be seen as normal loans

Normal loans, no facility to add development loans in.

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On 20/10/2018 at 23:04, Stuart Milne said:

Hi Sean, thanks for the feedback.

We don't set the squad players start the game in (i.e. we don't put Jack Hendry into Celtic's reserve team), the game assigns these players into teams based on their ratings. The same applies for squad status, squad heirarchy and transfer values. Basically these are coding things rather than data things.

So, with that said, we aren't going to make players artificially better than they are just so they appear in the first team squad page rather than the reserve page.

Despite being first team squad members, de Vries, Comper, Allan, Gamboa and Eboue have played a combined 1 single first team league appearance this season between them. That, despite what you might want to label them, makes then reserves.

Jack Hendry has played first team games for Celtic, but is not a particularly good player. Indeed, it's pretty much accepted that Celtic's defence when playing against teams of a higher standard, is often found wanting.

Unless Sharon Brown and Christopher McKay are likely to make a bid to take over Celtic, they aren't particularly important to add to the database, so this would be a low priority fix.

The legends/icons point is valid.

I'll make sure Boyata and Benkovic are updated.

McCluskey will be removed then as we don't add u16 staff.

I'm not sure that Celtic will spend all that money (or any of it) on new players if recent history is anything to go by, but I'll look to increase their budget.

 

 

If you are going to do that then fell free to make their wage bill accurately reflect real life as well.

They begin the game spending around 34million per year less on wages than their financials say they do.

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1 hour ago, Yer Maw said:

Normal loans, no facility to add development loans in.

Will just have to do it with the editors like last season then, ta.

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32 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

If you are going to do that then fell free to make their wage bill accurately reflect real life as well.

They begin the game spending around 34million per year less on wages than their financials say they do.

Even if it's not 100% accurate (and it won't be because we simply do not have access to what players are genuinely paid and can only estimate) you have to bear in mind that the game won't take into consideration the huge financial outlay Celtic will have in staff outside of the football side of the business.

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19 minutes ago, Stuart Milne said:

Even if it's not 100% accurate (and it won't be because we simply do not have access to what players are genuinely paid and can only estimate) you have to bear in mind that the game won't take into consideration the huge financial outlay Celtic will have in staff outside of the football side of the business.

Id wager that the wage bill for the cleaning lady , kitman and coaches doesn't come anywhere near the 34 million discrepancy in the wages in game.

The rangers wage bill is out by around 85000 pw and I'd imagine they have very similar additional staffing costs to Celtic. The Celtic wage bill is out by 800'000 PW compared to their financials.

I agree you can't be 100% accurate , you can at least try to get ball park though.

 

Edit - the operational costs including labour are actually broken down in the financials.

 

Operational costs Inc labour were 87 million , the 59 million is the wages for the football operation alone so you're way off trying to dismiss the discrepancy as massive hidden costs. It's there in the annual reports for nearly every club in the league. 

 

 

 

Edited by treble_yell_:-)

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11 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Id wager that the wage bill for the cleaning lady , kitman and coaches doesn't come anywhere near the 34 million discrepancy in the wages in game.

The rangers wage bill is out by around 85000 pw and I'd imagine they have very similar additional staffing costs to Celtic. The Celtic wage bill is out by 800'000 PW compared to their financials.

I agree you can't be 100% accurate , you can at least try to get ball park though.

There are 19 players paid north of 5 figures at Celtic in the database and a total of 43 paid £2000 p/w or more.

At Rangers there are 13 players paid north of 5 figures and only 30 players paid £2000 p/w or more.

Both clubs' highest paid player is on £25,000 p/w and both clubs have 2 players on that wage.

Can you point to specifics as to where we've gone wrong? 

While you'd imagine they have additional staffing costs to Rangers, I personally think that's very naive. Celtic for example have a museum, they've plans for a hotel (which in turn will involve staffing to develop such plans) and in general will have taken the opportunities as being the market leaders in Scotland to develop their business (outside of football costs) wider than Rangers.

From a footballing staff outlay, they'll also have paid out a hell of a lot more in bonuses than Rangers too.

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Again , it's broken down in the financials if you can actually be bothered to look.

I can see your not moving on this , I'll just take your word for it that Celtic pay 25m in wages and an additional 34 to run their museum 

Edited by treble_yell_:-)

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27 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Again , it's broken down in the financials if you can actually be bothered to look.

I can see your not moving on this , I'll just take your word for it that Celtic pay 25m in wages and an additional 34 to run their museum 

As an indicator of your flawed approach to this, to come up with the figure you're using you've simply gone in to the wages/salary commitment section of the finances in FM19 to come up with the figure of £25m. After all, £475k p/w over the course of a year is £25m and you've quoted us as having Celtic pay £34m less than the £59m their financials say they do.

A few points for you to consider then...

  • The only way you can see those figures in the game is to become their manager. When you become their manager you then remove Brendan Rodgers - who is paid at least £2m per year - from those financials.
  • Those figures do not include the aforementioned bonuses. We just set basic wages. We don't claim to know how much of a bonus Celtic players get for reaching the group stages of the Champions League, for winning the Betfred Cup or even on a case by case basis for winning individual games or scoring goals. But that's not just a Celtic thing, it's across the entire SPFL. It's just that Celtic will pay a lot more. A lot.
  • Those figures do not include ANY non playing staff. They only include players from the first team and reserve team. Celtic's footballing budget will include first team coaches, reserve coaches, community coaches, scouts, data analysts, club doctors, physios, groundskeepers, kit-men, all players and staff for levels below the u18 squad, player pensions, former players who work ambassadorial roles and so on.

The only part of those financials that I can adjust and that matter in Football Manager, all other things being equal, is the estimated wage of the players.

So I ask you; which of those players specifically have I given the wrong wage to? And can you provide proof.

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Just a little curious on this one. And fully understandable one from all points of view. If Livingston maintain current form will their swaud be given small boost? Looking at the right now they by far weakest squad in the spfl premiership while their current league form would suggest otherwise. 

The other thing I noticed is coulibaly at rangers has a buy clause in his loan contract. Have seen reports in the media for it but the figure showing in game looks fairly low. Couldn't see any figures when trying to research this but right now would be a no brainer to trigger almost at the start of a save. 

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Livingston have been given an across-the-board boost for the full release.

Essentially, each player has been given an increase in work rate and fitness, which I think suits their style, and this in turn raises their Current Ability.

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10 minutes ago, Stuart Milne said:

Livingston have been given an across-the-board boost for the full release.

Essentially, each player has been given an increase in work rate and fitness, which I think suits their style, and this in turn raises their Current Ability.

That is more than a fair boost in my opinion. Thank you for the responce. Very understandable why the lower stats on livi were there to begin with. 

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On 22/10/2018 at 01:08, Logan1888 said:

5’9 according to wiki

Wikipedia is woeful. Google says 5ft 11 and the official spl says 5ft 11....

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Celtic have a very promising youngster called Karamoko dembele who has been promoted to the reserves from the underv18s, he is not in any squad.

 

it would be a travesty if he was in fm2019

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30 minutes ago, Jinky Larsson said:

Celtic have a very promising youngster called Karamoko dembele who has been promoted to the reserves from the underv18s, he is not in any squad.

 

it would be a travesty if he was in fm2019

He's 15. He's not going to be in FM19. 

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Hibernian are delighted to announce that both Ryan Porteous and Fraser Murray have both signed contract extensions until 2023 with the club.

Source: http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/9355

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On 20/10/2018 at 22:37, Gripper said:

If we raise all of those he'll be taking Kieran Trippier's place in the England squad.

His CA is perfectly acceptable for the form he has shown and level he is playing. So, in summation, of you wish his Flair, work rate, stamina, aggression, composure, penalty taking, leadership teamwork and vision to be increased, which attributes do we decrease to balance his profile? 

None, simple if a players as good then surely he should have the appropriate attributes and why does it matter if he'll take trippiers spot in the england squad? Imo he needs an upgrade but if your scared that he'll take trippiers spot in the england squad then its unlikely yous will upgrade him.

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Why are celtic so overpowered this year only lost 1 league game the whole season when they lost the first game of the season irl. For them to spend 17 million and only to have 5 mil as a budget and only bring in 2 million im pretty sure 5 + 2 isnt 17.

Edited by weekyle13

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Hibs should not have a higher transfer or wage budget than Rangers. And if celtic have 5 mil then rangers should have at least 5mil considering they spent more than them in the summer and signed more players than them. also celtic signed nelson semedo on my save and that is very unrealistic as when is a player playing for barcelona going to sign for celtic. Also Dundee should not have a higher budget than Aberdeen andd Hearts.

Edited by weekyle13

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On 22/10/2018 at 14:59, wardog said:

Id also add to above Stephen Kelly is starting to break into the team often on the bench now and getting tipped for big things, admittedly only got on the pitch for a few minutes against Ayr, but his PA seems to be between 1.5* and 3* in my load ups, not sure what this would refer to in the minus scale due to not having pre game editor but think a little boost would be good, -7 maybe fair alongside middleton? Mebude is another tipped for big things that seems to be in this -7 range, given the press around him taking him upto -8 wouldn't be bad, coaches hold him on same regard as Billy Gilmour who again I'm not sure on this year but was -8 last year. Rangers youth side last year went across europe beat a number of the top youth sides, I don't think this is really reflected in the game in players CA and PA.

I understand potential is very opinionated and hard to prove, so wouldnt argue too much at no changes here but feel Middleton and Mebude would be fair at -8 while Kelly and a few others at -7 Celtic have a huge advantage over Rangers in this area but i struggle to understand why this is the case. 

Just wanted to raise this again after gathering more evidence. This is more about the academy rather than the players to be fair but highlights to me that if -7 is as high as we go it's a little out of balance. This is the double pass assessment of rangers academy after a successful year with the youth side beating some of the best youth sides in Europe. No asking for us to have loads of wonderkids but just a couple of players who could potentially develop into something. 

https://rangers.co.uk/news/academy-news/national-recognition-great-for-club/

Kelly is a big issue as right now in real life he's on the fringes where as on game he won't even get close.

 

Edit: forgot to paste link

Edited by wardog

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1 hour ago, weekyle13 said:

Hibs should not have a higher transfer or wage budget than Rangers. And if celtic have 5 mil then rangers should have at least 5mil considering they spent more than them in the summer and signed more players than them. also celtic signed nelson semedo on my save and that is very unrealistic as when is a player playing for barcelona going to sign for celtic. Also Dundee should not have a higher budget than Aberdeen andd Hearts.

We sold McGinn and the money from that hasn't been used as it was after we had our squad put together, Milligan, Nelom and Mavrias are free agents while Hyndman, McLaren and Agyepong are loans, Mallan and Kamberi were paid with money already in the bank and only cost around £150K each. You also have to remember that these figures are never really true figures, guesstimates. 

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6 minutes ago, jc1 said:

We sold McGinn and the money from that hasn't been used as it was after we had our squad put together, Milligan, Nelom and Mavrias are free agents while Hyndman, McLaren and Agyepong are loans, Mallan and Kamberi were paid with money already in the bank and only cost around £150K each. You also have to remember that these figures are never really true figures, guesstimates. 

Fair enough however even with the mcginn money i don't think hibs have a higher budget than rangers but thats just my opintion and don't know the real statistics.

Edited by weekyle13

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39 minutes ago, weekyle13 said:

Fair enough however even with the mcginn money i don't think hibs have a higher budget than rangers but thats just my opintion and don't know the real statistics.

I’d guess that our balance is set low BECAUSE we spent so much

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12 hours ago, Stuart Milne said:

Livingston have been given an across-the-board boost for the full release.

Essentially, each player has been given an increase in work rate and fitness, which I think suits their style, and this in turn raises their Current Ability.

Any teams like Motherwell or Dundee been reduced based on current form?

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11 hours ago, Yer Maw said:

Any teams like Motherwell or Dundee been reduced based on current form?

I would suggest that Motherwell have played better than their players suggest over the past couple of seasons and Dundee are bang average/crap and are where they belong near the bottom. I feel Livingston are overachieving right now, this may be due to their manager and their home pitch levels out the game, they'll eventually drop back once the levels drop and injures/suspensions kick in.

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I mentioned in a previous post but there is no testimonial in game for Paul Hanlon at Hibs, he had one pre season but it's not been added, will this be fixed in time for release.

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Believe this will be a Scottish Issue. Mohsni is now a free agent but after an attempt to sign him realized his 7 game ban still in place this should now be served 

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On 22/10/2018 at 14:52, wardog said:

I think someone else mentioned reducing his marking and positioning (latter might be about right tbh) and i've also suggested reducing his tackling. What I think Tavernier is, is a wing back who's very good going forward and vunrable in the defensive side. Adjusting those stats would be fair. Im not asking for his overall CA to be increased. But right now in a Rangers save your full back options will be Barasic on the left while on the right its very close between Tavernier and Flanagan which doesn't reflect real life. The quotes were just added weight to my arguement. The links and the bids are the best ive got for his level of football. The goldson one I think is good as it backs up hes frail at the back while going forward is very good. You're right team mates aren't going to slate him but in game just now with his stats you wont select him as your penalty taker - which is a big reason why hes currenltly 2nd top scorer in the league, you wont select him on free kicks or corners, which he currently takes and he wont get close to his assists regardless of tactics because his crossing is too low. 

His marking and positioning were already reduced. Tavernier is good going forward as has been said many times but you just have to look at his performance last night to see he's not quite ironed out issues in his game by getting caught in possession a few times, out of position and his delivery from corners and set pieces was abysmal. And this was in a game that Rangers largely dominated which should have suited us.

The penalty taking could be increased slightly but I think overall his other attributes are quite fair.

As always these will be continually monitored (as with all players, especially the new guys and youngsters) and updated.

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On 25/10/2018 at 10:45, jc1 said:

I mentioned in a previous post but there is no testimonial in game for Paul Hanlon at Hibs, he had one pre season but it's not been added, will this be fixed in time for release.

His testimonial date been added for the release - but we cannot fix the exact opponent.

18 hours ago, wardog said:

Believe this will be a Scottish Issue. Mohsni is now a free agent but after an attempt to sign him realized his 7 game ban still in place this should now be served 

Fixed for release database.

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12 minutes ago, Ter said:

His marking and positioning were already reduced. Tavernier is good going forward as has been said many times but you just have to look at his performance last night to see he's not quite ironed out issues in his game by getting caught in possession a few times, out of position and his delivery from corners and set pieces was abysmal. And this was in a game that Rangers largely dominated which should have suited us.

The penalty taking could be increased slightly but I think overall his other attributes are quite fair.

As always these will be continually monitored (as with all players, especially the new guys and youngsters) and updated.

This is fair. Do agree last night wasn't his best performance. Delivery was well below what I think I've came to expect from him. 

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Just now, wardog said:

This is fair. Do agree last night wasn't his best performance. Delivery was well below what I think I've came to expect from him. 

Was disappointed Gerrard didn't try to sort it out. I saw they switched to short corners with Kent coming short but Kent should have had a chance to hit them. I think once Barisic is back fit again we'll see what a proper delivery is like :)

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10 minutes ago, Ter said:

Was disappointed Gerrard didn't try to sort it out. I saw they switched to short corners with Kent coming short but Kent should have had a chance to hit them. I think once Barisic is back fit again we'll see what a proper delivery is like :)

Do like the look of Barisic in game and real life. 

What's the chances of some PA changes as I mentioned above to rangers academy players? Know many in the community disappointed at this although understand potential is purely opinion and you guys often get it right. Do think Kelly is an issue ATM tho

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1) When looking at the achievements of Brendan Rodgers and the Celtic players, it doesn't list the Scottish Cup won in 2018 on any of their profiles.

2) On the Betfred Cup page where all the previous winners of the competition are listed, it claims that the competition didnt take place in 2010/2011 when in reality Rangers beat Celtic in the final.

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2 hours ago, zaskalaba said:

1) When looking at the achievements of Brendan Rodgers and the Celtic players, it doesn't list the Scottish Cup won in 2018 on any of their profiles.

2) On the Betfred Cup page where all the previous winners of the competition are listed, it claims that the competition didnt take place in 2010/2011 when in reality Rangers beat Celtic in the final.

These are both good spots.

For point 1, it looks like what's happened is the achievement line has been entered but the researcher has not selected 'winner' as the placing of the achievement.

For point 2, I expect purely by accident, a box in the history line saying 'Did not take place' is responsible.

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