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2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

They're a starting point. Whatever you want to call it, it is what it is. It isn't going to be a perfect tactic meaning you'll win every match. It'll try to play out what the preset shows - as said - considering player quality and the actual setup. 

No - but it shouldn't be an awful tactic that has you lose every match either. It should all other things being equal give you below-par results if you're not adapting it to your squad's capabiltities, the game state and the opposition, but not to the extent that you're seeing a Champions League side get relegated.

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On the matter of the tactical presets. They are just Presets. If you watch the live stream you will see with a top 4 club in Leverkusen, They just selected a presets didn't make any changes just minor player role changes and they are midtable. 

Some of the creators had to come in and provide some insight and help.

Like presets means here are a set of instructions, roles, and shape that we believe can give you the best results, of course, because its a preset, you have to make changes and tailor it to your specific squad but instead of you starting at ground level, we're gonna help you start at level 3. 

All those styles i was able to recreate in FM. I won't be using a preset as the style i want doesn't fit into one preset. If you scan the tactics forum, those presets are what people were having the most problems creating. SI just helped them, the roles and whatnot can be interchanged, i've already spotted some few fundamental flaws in some of the roles selected like use a BWM and a B2B as your two holding players.  

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Just now, Jean0987654321 said:

Looks like Miles got some YouTubers to play a few hours of the Alpha version. 

I like to think this was due to the suggestion I made on here months ago that rather than have videos to promote the new game, it would be a good idea to get people to play it and record it for You Tube etc. 

Or they might have thought of it themselves anyway :lol:

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I asked 3 of the creators their opinions on it and they said it was really stable.  One didnt notice a single bug in the entire time he played it.  One noticed 1 or 2 which were tiny little things, nothing which 'breaks' the gameplay or caused a crash. And the other also said zero bugs noticed. 

Looking forward to it now

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1 hour ago, Spurs08 said:

No - but it shouldn't be an awful tactic that has you lose every match either. It should all other things being equal give you below-par results if you're not adapting it to your squad's capabiltities, the game state and the opposition, but not to the extent that you're seeing a Champions League side get relegated.

Don't think it'll work that way. tbf, you've had to do a lot of flat out garbage to get anywhere close to that for a huge time coming. :)Granted, prior releases allowed a bit more leeway, as in the overall balance of things, individual player quality mattered more to the extent that on some releases you could pump the ball to completely isolated "super dribblers" all match long and wish them the best -- they'd still kinda keep you afloat by frequently coasting past defenders all alone. Don't think that would ever be possible in football, but then who knows. :DIn particular considering that FM doesn't seem to model the finishing streaks (that can go both ways) which seem to influence short-term results (and a season is comparably short-term) in football every year to some extent (if a player ever had Zidane's season last term on FM likewise, or Crystal Palace's, or Burnley's, or... multiple players would report similar as it's thousands playing the game, and the forums were a meltdown). :D On FM, though, this all never even happens once. The AI in particular frequently more recent doesn't even dominate the shot tables as it does in real-life (which they do to huge extents, even Real last term), so top team underperformance in FM in tendency comes about in whole different ways than it does in football in general -- to me, anyways.

 

But then, if FM were as random as football can be -- I wouldn't want to be in SI's shoes considering the reported threats of murder. :D

Edited by Svenc

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3 hours ago, Amarante said:

So lets get some things sorted out.  I'm a game developer and programmer by trade. 

 

1. In your opinion the PES engine is better than FIFA.

2. FIFA is being ran on Frostbyte 3 if i remember correctly. Dice the maker of the engine is being pump with millions each year to update maintain, create and all of that lovely stuff into the engine. FIFA/PES make way way way way more than FM. 

3. FM is sold to a small set of people which means its profits are lower. Now between paying staff, licenses fee, operational cost SI just doesn't have the money to A. Hire an entire team to work on Match Engine and the Graphical aspects of the game while B. Making whole sale changes within a time frame to hand it off to Sega. 

People think games just magical appear. They don't. They require time and money. Deadlines have to be met, money has to go into marketing while trying to keep the studio afloat until the next release. 

You want to know why Unreal Engine and  Unity are popular? Game Engines cost a fortune to create and maintain. EA canceled FIFA Manager because it wasn't profitable enough. EA is all about the money and they saw that management games don't make that much money. 

And FYI only the small sect of the community cares about having realistic graphics and stadiums. a high percentage watch games on 2D a next set know that the 3D is just a means to an end All they care about is there tactics are being represented properly and you can see that with 16bit pixels or photorealistic graphic. 

FM is not a casual game like PES or FIFA that caters to every single gamer/football fan that needs photoreasltic graphics to compete. Its for the small sect of us that wants to be the manager not the player. 

OK so it is only a small setion of the community that wants realistic graphics and stadiums, If that is true, thats fine but in that case why bother to include stadiums etc. it would still be possible to show the match in 3D without all the tadiums and surounds which look pretty poor

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1 minute ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

OK so it is only a small setion of the community that wants realistic graphics and stadiums, If that is true, thats fine but in that case why bother to include stadiums etc. it would still be possible to show the match in 3D without all the tadiums and surounds which look pretty poor

Because it's a process and it helps with immersion. Yes it's not photorealistic but we understand that. Look at games like Total War, Civilisation the graphics aren't great but it helps. At this moment we want SI to get us to as real football as possible. Then maybe after a few versions, we see better Graphics. It will come. Yes i would love to see my Inside forward with 20 dribbling perform a Cyruff turn but i would rather be able to see Pep\'s man city knock that ball around that wanting to see the odd trick or two. 

 

Also need to understand that without certain licenses we will always get generic looking players and generic looking stadiums as anything look like the real players or stadiums would pout SI in legal troubles. 

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2 minutes ago, Amarante said:

Because it's a process and it helps with immersion. Yes it's not photorealistic but we understand that. Look at games like Total War, Civilisation the graphics aren't great but it helps. At this moment we want SI to get us to as real football as possible. Then maybe after a few versions, we see better Graphics. It will come. Yes i would love to see my Inside forward with 20 dribbling perform a Cyruff turn but i would rather be able to see Pep\'s man city knock that ball around that wanting to see the odd trick or two. 

 

Also need to understand that without certain licenses we will always get generic looking players and generic looking stadiums as anything look like the real players or stadiums would pout SI in legal troubles. 

The problem is that the immersion is broken as soon as start match is clicked and the stadium is filled with a crowd where 95% are wearing replica shirts reality then ends. stadiums can still be generic and look realistic.  In previous versions stadiums and crowds could be turned off, but I believe thats not possible in FM19

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1 minute ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

The problem is that the immersion is broken as soon as start match is clicked and the stadium is filled with a crowd where 95% are wearing replica shirts reality then ends. stadiums can still be generic and look realistic.  In previous versions stadiums and crowds could be turned off, but I believe thats not possible in FM19

Yes, i can see where this can be immersion breaking for some. Maybe the best thing SI can do is allow us the power and ability to end these things as we are able to do so with skins logo packs facepacks etc etc. A genuine stadium builder i believe is needed and maybe an improvement on the 3D model used can be thought about. 

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1 minute ago, Amarante said:

Yes, i can see where this can be immersion breaking for some. Maybe the best thing SI can do is allow us the power and ability to end these things as we are able to do so with skins logo packs facepacks etc etc. A genuine stadium builder i believe is needed and maybe an improvement on the 3D model used can be thought about. 

In my opinion SI were on the right track in FM16, but it seems to have gone in the opposite direction since

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3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

And they don't have to replicate a match engine. Even PES and FIFA can't do that. Moot point

As you have often said the graphics is not the match engine.  There is massive room for improvement in the look of the game regardless of the match engine

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Just now, Tony Wright 747 said:

As you have often said the graphics is not the match engine.  There is massive room for improvement in the look of the game regardless of the match engine

I'm not sure what your point is here tbh. The graphics still have to work with the match engine. And I've been over this conversation so many times recently I really don't want to get into it again. 

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I'm just happy that the players no longer jog on the spot between highlights, or all stop running and stand around as the ball heads towards the side line.

In all seriousness though, every year is an incremental step closer to the perfect product, and as long as that remains the case, then I'll continue to be happy with the direction that Football Manager is taking. Rome wasn't built in a day, and when you consider the size of the SI development team, and the complexities of the product, they're definitely heading in the right direction, even if the rate of change is slower than some of the community would like.

I don't envy SI at all regarding the game graphics, as they're essentially aiming at a moving target and they're always going to look outdated when compared to FIFA and the like.  What can't be debated  though, is that regardless of its (both real and perceived) faults, SI's match engine is second to none, and nothing else even comes close to how realistically it simulates a football match between two AI teams. This is SI's bread and butter, and their main competitive advantage. It is important that we don't lose sight of that fact.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Amarante said:

On the matter of the tactical presets. They are just Presets. If you watch the live stream you will see with a top 4 club in Leverkusen, They just selected a presets didn't make any changes just minor player role changes and they are midtable. 

Some of the creators had to come in and provide some insight and help.

Like presets means here are a set of instructions, roles, and shape that we believe can give you the best results, of course, because its a preset, you have to make changes and tailor it to your specific squad but instead of you starting at ground level, we're gonna help you start at level 3

All those styles i was able to recreate in FM. I won't be using a preset as the style i want doesn't fit into one preset. If you scan the tactics forum, those presets are what people were having the most problems creating. SI just helped them, the roles and whatnot can be interchanged, i've already spotted some few fundamental flaws in some of the roles selected like use a BWM and a B2B as your two holding players.  

If you're talking about gegenpressing, then it's not necessarily a fundamental flaw. 

That said, I would have used a roaming playmaker because when you're not breaking quickly, I want someone capable of creating in there. And I think I saw VTT somewhere, a couple of roles I wouldn't use. But that's why they should be seeing as templates. Sure they'll probably do a pretty decent job, but equally that shouldn't fool people into think their work is done 

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6 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm not sure what your point is here tbh. The graphics still have to work with the match engine. And I've been over this conversation so many times recently I really don't want to get into it again. 

I was just answering your quote that mobiles don't have a real match engine, neither does Fifa or PES, we all know that.  The on pitch grephics in FM19 do look better than last year, it is the representation of the crowd that really lets it down.  Perhaps you could confirm that the crowd cannot be turned off in FM19

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2 hours ago, Barside said:

You’re digging yourself into a hole here, the lack of any knowledge of game development on your part is abundantly clear.

Good point as usual Barside, but I often wonder where the game would be if EA had not rejected the Colliers in the early days.  Imagine if SI had access to EA's graphics budget

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18 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

I was just answering your quote that mobiles don't have a real match engine, neither does Fifa or PES, we all know that.  The on pitch grephics in FM19 do look better than last year, it is the representation of the crowd that really lets it down.  Perhaps you could confirm that the crowd cannot be turned off in FM19

Couldn’t tell you even if I did know I'm afraid. 

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Why do people get so caught up on the crowd aspect especially the fact they are all wearing replica kits? It doesn't break the realism for me. 

I think the pre-sets are good ideas as it provides a basic template on how to play a certain way rather than rely on plug and play for the reasons others have said. I would further add that I would not be susprised if some of the successful plug and play tactics from FM18 don't work in FM19 due to the considerable changes in how tactics work with things like transition, pressing and off the ball play. There will be new ones in time, of course, but for the first weeks of games release, we'll all have to work out new methods and I find that very challenging and invigorating and definitely more so than if the tactics had no or minor changes. If you get stuck with tweaking a pre-set you can always go to the tactics subforum and ask for help. 

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4 hours ago, decapitated said:

Why do people get so caught up on the crowd aspect especially the fact they are all wearing replica kits? It doesn't break the realism for me. 

I think the pre-sets are good ideas as it provides a basic template on how to play a certain way rather than rely on plug and play for the reasons others have said. I would further add that I would not be susprised if some of the successful plug and play tactics from FM18 don't work in FM19 due to the considerable changes in how tactics work with things like transition, pressing and off the ball play. There will be new ones in time, of course, but for the first weeks of games release, we'll all have to work out new methods and I find that very challenging and invigorating and definitely more so than if the tactics had no or minor changes. If you get stuck with tweaking a pre-set you can always go to the tactics subforum and ask for help. 

Why? Well, because Neill Brock has quoted numerous times, he wants the game, and the ME to be as realistic as possible with each version, and EVERY single fan wearing a replica kit is NOT realistic. That is why. Its one of many issues that were not fixed, or improved for FM19. 

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I dont know

Cross is op to me but maybe i have neglected the base rate . 

Watching extended/ key highlight may make you think cross are op becoz only showing highlight.

Watching fullgame may make you think it isnt op .

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33 minutes ago, Preveza said:

Why? Well, because Neill Brock has quoted numerous times, he wants the game, and the ME to be as realistic as possible with each version, and EVERY single fan wearing a replica kit is NOT realistic. That is why. Its one of many issues that were not fixed, or improved for FM19. 

He also acknowledged the problem in FM18, but as you say has not been fixed.

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Having watched quite a few YouTube videos it’s so clear to see many many assists coming from crosses, no one can possibly argue any different. It’s a fact!

I know a lot of goals are scored from crosses irl and it’s probably not fair to judge from watching 20 games but so far the new ME seems unbalanced with a heavy bias towards crosses and direct free kicks.

I hope we get a new ME for beta or 1.0.

It would be interesting to hear someones opinion from the ME team on their perception of assist spread. For someone who has preordered this is a concern for me.

Edited by Weller1980

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6 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

Having watched quite a few YouTube videos it’s so clear to see many many assists coming from crosses, no one can possibly argue any different. It’s a fact!

Which videos? 

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23 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Which videos? 

Most of the Tom and Curtis live streams, and some YouTube creator videos, the LA galaxy one especially.

As I said it maybe unfair to judge the ME this early and I know it’s Alpha footage but I like you want this to be the best version of FM. By the way I think it’s looking great overall, but crosses do seem overpowered, last years FM assists from crosses was also 10 to 15% above real life stats.

However I don’t think the FM18 ME always recorded cross assists correctly, my definition of a cross is a medium to long range pass towards the centre of the goal from a wide area of the pitch. A lot of short square balls and cutbacks were classified as cross assists in FM18

Edited by Weller1980

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Lets just make FM with packs and micro transactions so they can have more money and invest it in making more sophisticating micro transactions and fancier player pack colors...

Is this what people truly want? FM cant compare visually with PES and FIFA, and mostly it is not because of money etc, its because the ME and graphics are very complex and hard to understand. Really would like some dev come down here and explain it a bit more and separate what is part of the game is run by ME, graphics etc.

 

Edit:
https://strikerless.com/2018/10/15/creating-a-new-hybrid-style-with-fm19s-new-interface/

Edited by saihtam

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Looks too similar to FM18. Until personal interactions get a huge overhaul, I won't be buying except at significant reduction from RRP.

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Crossing has seemed slightly OP (not hugely) for a long time now and I think SI have said previously it’s not something that can be fixed easily in the current engine - hence why it hasn’t been patched out. It’s no surprise to see it’s still there in 19. 

I don’t think it’s necessarily the number of crosses it’s what happens in a highlight. When you see the ball go wide and the winger chases it and puts it into the box, it seems like too many highlights show a goal from that situation rather than a chance that’s missed - which leads to that ‘inevitability’ feeling of dreading a goal every time a cross comes in. In real life the success rate of crosses (and the accuracy) doesn’t seem as high. 

 

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In their 1st stream and reveal video on Twitch this past Friday, Neuer had 9 saves (many of which were brilliant) and recorded a Clean sheet. His rating was only 6.90. I was disappointed to see that. Then there was another case in the 2nd stream on Saturday where it was a GK own-goal (ball hit cross-bar then ricochet off GK) and the GK rating didn't even change as if the ratings are not being calculated correctly. Does a lower GK rating over the course of the season affect GK development and morale on a global scale? Hopefully the beta will be much better. 

neur.jpg

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3 minutes ago, rain94 said:

In their 1st stream and reveal video on Twitch this past Friday, Neuer had 9 saves (many of which were brilliant) and recorded a Clean sheet. His rating was only 6.90. I was disappointed to see that. Then there was another case in the 2nd stream on Saturday where it was a GK own-goal (ball hit cross-bar then ricochet off GK) and the GK rating didn't even change as if the ratings are not being calculated correctly. Does a lower GK rating over the course of the season affect GK development and morale on a global scale? Hopefully the beta will be much better. 

neur.jpg

Agree on this too. It was even acknowledged by them that he should be man of the match/have a higher rating. 

Again, this has been in the game for a long time now - it’s rare to see keepers get MoM or consistently high ratings so I can only assume it’s not an easy fix. It’s not as if SI won’t know about it. 

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I am excited for this year's release, only curiousity is that will Beta saves be usable when the full game comes out?

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So many people complaining about 3D graphics and what not...think about us lowly people playing on our macbooks! Keep the system reqs down so I can enjoy my 2D in peace :D

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35 minutes ago, DP said:

Crossing has seemed slightly OP (not hugely) for a long time now and I think SI have said previously it’s not something that can be fixed easily in the current engine - 

 

That's what was said for FM16, for which a fix was in place after making changes (particularly the reactions of defenders) to the ME in FM17. That said, the balance for FM18 was good.

Of course, it was still very possible to have realistic assist numbers and locations where the assists come from in all 3 versions.

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13 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

That's what was said for FM16, for which a fix was in place after making changes (particularly the reactions of defenders) to the ME in FM17. That said, the balance for FM18 was good.

Of course, it was still very possible to have realistic assist numbers and locations where the assists come from in all 3 versions.

Which is why I think now it’s more a case of how the highlights show it. I’d like to see more highlights where the cross comes in and the header goes wide, over, or saved. I can’t seem to shake the feeling of doom when the ball goes wide for an onrushing winger in the 92nd minute. 

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1 minute ago, DP said:

I’d like to see more highlights where the cross comes in and the header goes wide, over, or saved.

Watching on Comprehensive, this is what I see already in FM18.

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2 hours ago, Weller1980 said:

Most of the Tom and Curtis live streams, and some YouTube creator videos, the LA galaxy one especially.

As I said it maybe unfair to judge the ME this early and I know it’s Alpha footage but I like you want this to be the best version of FM. By the way I think it’s looking great overall, but crosses do seem overpowered, last years FM assists from crosses was also 10 to 15% above real life stats.

However I don’t think the FM18 ME always recorded cross assists correctly, my definition of a cross is a medium to long range pass towards the centre of the goal from a wide area of the pitch. A lot of short square balls and cutbacks were classified as cross assists in FM18

To be fair, the Galaxy one has 2 wingers in a Go Route One tactic that includes Zlatan who is very good in the air. It's going to be pretty cross heavy. There's a lot you don't see with Key highlights on. Look at that first friendly against Fresno. There's a lot of central play, particularly from Fresno. We really need to wait until we get our hands on the Beta.

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Has anyone noticed in nearly all the Let's Plays and streams that corners appear to be almost identical in nature to FM18? In 18, I had a massive issue with deliveries into the box, despite having takers who had high Corner and Crossing attributes. It seems as though most AI pick up or head the ball away at the near post, every single time, then it is recycled. This was a frustrating part of FM18 that I hope doesn't come back in 19.

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1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

To be fair, the Galaxy one has 2 wingers in a Go Route One tactic that includes Zlatan who is very good in the air. It's going to be pretty cross heavy. There's a lot you don't see with Key highlights on. Look at that first friendly against Fresno. There's a lot of central play, particularly from Fresno. We really need to wait until we get our hands on the Beta.

My concern centers around how teams will defend against opponents who use width & crosses to create chances, from what we've seen so far fullbacks are getting isolated & teams are finding it relativelky easy to get the ball into dangerous areas to cross from & get that cross into the box with a high instances of positive outcomes, be that a shot, retaining possession to recycle for another go or getting the ball back from a weak clear.

Of course a major factor is the choice to fly through the matches using key highlights as this will only show goals & good scoring chances, SI missed a trick here & should have streamed more matches on comprehensive highlights as that would have hopefully shown us more examples of solid defending include where attacks down the flanks were being stopped at teh key phases of the play.

Personally I am worried that a team with below average technically ability will be able to consistently beat technically stronger opponents by using a battering ram on the flanks to expose a lack of cohesion in defence that is more a weakness in the ME than a poor tactcial decision or a believable error by an individual player on the pitch, I really hope my worries are unfounded but purely based on what we've seen streamed my concerns regarding the ME AI have increased. 

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2 hours ago, steakfaced said:

So many people complaining about 3D graphics and what not...think about us lowly people playing on our macbooks! Keep the system reqs down so I can enjoy my 2D in peace :D

If graphics are improved, you should still be able to enjoy 2D on lower specs machines

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Very surprsied that the Football Manager Twitch channel is not hosting content creators throughout the days leading upto final releaase.

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6 minutes ago, Barside said:

Very surprsied that the Football Manager Twitch channel is not hosting content creators throughout the days leading upto final releaase.

The team behind Civ did a lot of streaming in the run up to their release, got notifications about them on Steam a lot.

Would be cool for different bits of content to be shown in the run up to release showcasing the different game modes.

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18 minutes ago, Barside said:

Very surprsied that the Football Manager Twitch channel is not hosting content creators throughout the days leading upto final releaase.

Must be because the beta is coming out today 😉

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1 hour ago, Barside said:

Very surprsied that the Football Manager Twitch channel is not hosting content creators throughout the days leading upto final releaase.

The stream It's painful to watch

They have no idea how to play and bring creator who is also don't know what to do is hilarious

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9 minutes ago, Lynch48 said:

The stream It's painful to watch

They have no idea how to play and bring creator who is also don't know what to do is hilarious

Bit unfair.  One of them called Teach was very good

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