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19 minutes ago, Amarante said:

Sigh. You have no idea what's going on there do you quote him in context.  Cyruff  uses a diamond 343 not a 4-6-0.  That video is incomplete and only provides a glimpse. 

Cruyff used a 343 or a 433. Both of which was able to create the diamond that he wanted. Each of which used a player in the striker position.  All you have to do is. watch how Ajax and Barcelona play. 

Goodness you can not read nor watch? Cruijff starts by drawing his back 4 (4 x). Then his right midfielder, dmc and left midfielder (which the hosts ask him to draw more clearly), then he adds his left wing, right wing and the cherry on the cake his AMC, thus delivering his diamond which literally is a 4-6-0. You can see this in the video starting at app. 1.05 to 1.33 where he even ends with "dit is mijn ruit, zo speel ik het" which is translated by "this is my diamond, this is how I play it"

It is not until later in the video where he incidentally also explains the 3-4-3 diamond.

Are you native Dutch? Perhaps there is a language barriere there there you?

Edited by Mensell76
clarification

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12 hours ago, forameuss said:

This is new.  Instead of waiting until the beta gets released to wail about the sky falling, people are now doing it off the back of clickbait Youtube videos.  What a time to be alive.

agreed 100 %

bit like those who have an opinion without having tried it either:brock:

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6 minutes ago, kingrobbo said:

agreed 100 %

bit like those who have an opinion without having tried it either:brock:

I'd agree.  Both sides are over-egging it.  I said when they announced the stream that it was likely to be stage-managed.  Because obviously it would be - if you're demoing a product, you're going to make sure it looks at its best.  However, there's certain people who are always going to look on something like that super-critically, just like there'll be people who'll look at it thinking everything looks great no matter what.

Personally, I didn't watch it.  I knew there would be overreaction on both sides, and I missed the time it initially went out.  I'm happy to draw my own opinions once the game comes out.

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7 minutes ago, forameuss said:

I'd agree.  Both sides are over-egging it.  I said when they announced the stream that it was likely to be stage-managed.  Because obviously it would be - if you're demoing a product, you're going to make sure it looks at its best.  However, there's certain people who are always going to look on something like that super-critically, just like there'll be people who'll look at it thinking everything looks great no matter what.

Personally, I didn't watch it.  I knew there would be overreaction on both sides, and I missed the time it initially went out.  I'm happy to draw my own opinions once the game comes out.

agreed there will be issues its to be expected and some bugs  do not effect everyone thats why the alpha/beta testing option to the whole community IMO would be the way to go

as you I havent watched any of this stuff it just sounds like some people wanting to show off(not all mind you and I am sure most are doing a good job in working with SI to get a good product available for full game release) and be drama queens looking for attention, I believe the modern vernacular is click bait :D

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1 minute ago, kingrobbo said:

agreed there will be issues its to be expected and some bugs  do not effect everyone thats why the alpha/beta testing option to the whole community IMO would be the way to go

as you I havent watched any of this stuff it just sounds like some people wanting to show off(not all mind you and I am sure most are doing a good job in working with SI to get a good product available for full game release) and be drama queens looking for attention, I believe the modern vernacular is click bait :D

FM19 BETA RELEASED?!!?! YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT KINGROBBO JUST SAID ABOUT FM19?!?!

*gurning face*

*loud noises*

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4 minutes ago, forameuss said:

FM19 BETA RELEASED?!!?! YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT KINGROBBO JUST SAID ABOUT FM19?!?!

*gurning face*

*loud noises*

lol

you shouldnt have posted that some are now refreshing steam thinking its out:lol:

Edited by kingrobbo

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After seeing the ball actually curling now in the new videos , I'm not sure I could go back to 18 even if I wanted to.

Edited by treble_yell_:-)

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FM18 was the first FM I have missed since prob 02/03, simply because it felt like more and more of the same with each new release.

From what I have seen of FM19, alot is "reskinning" existing features, and nothing really groundbreaking for the game - the training looks interesting tho. However the 3D matc engine looks like more of the same..

So this will be 2 years in a row where I wont buy FM. Maybe FM20 will be a bigger leap for the franchise. 

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Just now, Rhazmuz said:

FM18 was the first FM I have missed since prob 02/03, simply because it felt like more and more of the same with each new release.

From what I have seen of FM19, alot is "reskinning" existing features, and nothing really groundbreaking for the game - the training looks interesting tho. However the 3D matc engine looks like more of the same..

So this will be 2 years in a row where I wont buy FM. Maybe FM20 will be a bigger leap for the franchise. 

I have been thinking about the 'groundbreaking' aspect of new features in FM that will appease the masses. It's a difficult one - they've got it as close to a reality management sim as they can in my view; finding a balance without making the game as tedious as management can probably be sometimes. Sure, they can fix bugs and make press conferences less repetitive but I think the match engine is the most they can do development wise for the future.

New skins, new ways of displaying information - all nice to look at but not groundbreaking. They've been fine-tuning the game for years and I wonder how much further they can go with overall development - not a criticism, as I love the game and buy it every year, but eventually they will hit a wall no?

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8 minutes ago, Kingstontom88 said:

I have been thinking about the 'groundbreaking' aspect of new features in FM that will appease the masses. It's a difficult one - they've got it as close to a reality management sim as they can in my view; finding a balance without making the game as tedious as management can probably be sometimes. Sure, they can fix bugs and make press conferences less repetitive but I think the match engine is the most they can do development wise for the future.

New skins, new ways of displaying information - all nice to look at but not groundbreaking. They've been fine-tuning the game for years and I wonder how much further they can go with overall development - not a criticism, as I love the game and buy it every year, but eventually they will hit a wall no?

I overall agree with you.

To me, when I use the word "groundbreaking", it could also be a visual update to the 3D match engine, with better graphics and animations/presentation. I know they keep saying it isnt a priority and whatnot, but it is 2018 and there are mobile games with a better graphics presentation than FM has.

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2 minutes ago, Rhazmuz said:

I overall agree with you.

To me, when I use the word "groundbreaking", it could also be a visual update to the 3D match engine, with better graphics and animations/presentation. I know they keep saying it isnt a priority and whatnot, but it is 2018 and there are mobile games with a better graphics presentation than FM has.

Yes I think the visual side of the game will be the route they go down. FM can run on most systems now I would say, but updates to graphics engines may be required further down the line and I wonder if SI/SEGA want to risk potentially ostracizing part of their customer base (who don't have PC/MAC systems built for this) - Xbox and Playstation.etc can handle it, PC's are a different beast.

Methinks FM and its customer base will need to move with the times in the coming years.

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1 minute ago, Kingstontom88 said:

Yes I think the visual side of the game will be the route they go down. FM can run on most systems now I would say, but updates to graphics engines may be required further down the line and I wonder if SI/SEGA want to risk potentially ostracizing part of their customer base (who don't have PC/MAC systems built for this) - Xbox and Playstation.etc can handle it, PC's are a different beast.

Methinks FM and its customer base will need to move with the times in the coming years.

Now that you mention consoles, I would love a PS4/Xbox release similar to the Nintendo Switch release.. One can hope :/

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vor 43 Minuten schrieb Kingstontom88:

Yes I think the visual side of the game will be the route they go down. FM can run on most systems now I would say, but updates to graphics engines may be required further down the line and I wonder if SI/SEGA want to risk potentially ostracizing part of their customer base (who don't have PC/MAC systems built for this) - Xbox and Playstation.etc can handle it, PC's are a different beast.

Methinks FM and its customer base will need to move with the times in the coming years.

exactly this. graphic is that much outdated that it needs a big improvement.

I mean its on the level of ~fifa 2001, which is 17 years old.. dont have to tell which big steps we saw in this years in terms of graphic. And i know, we will not get fifa graphic anytime on FM, but there is so much room to improvements as it just looks not good and not realistic.

 

Its not the right way to say it have to work on all PCs, come on which buyers still play on a Pentium machine and surf with 56k modem nowadays? Thats just a cheap excuse.

 

Edited by KiLLu12258

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1 minute ago, KiLLu12258 said:

exactly this. graphic is that much outdated that it needs a big improvement.

I mean its on the level of fifa 2001, which is 17 years old.. dont have to tell which big steps we saw in this years in terms graphic. And i know, we will not get fifa graphic anytime on FM, but there is so much room to improvements as it just looks not good and not realistic.

 

While I agree the graphics side isn't the game's strong point, I can't say it bothers me that much. I mostly watch on 2D anyway as it gives me a better feel for what's happening (overview of whole pitch) - I have 3D replays which are nice to watch, but I rarely watch full games that way. 

It's edging along year by year, but for now I like the match engine and the way my tactics are set out are noticeable when watching in 3D mode.

If the graphics became the same level as the likes of FIFA and PES then that would be great and would create even more immersion in the game - player's faces and body types, even running styles become noticeable - better quality crowd and pitch effects.etc, improved sound - but if that was all put in and something was toned down, for example tactic options, a poor UI or the transfer/scouting system goes to pot, then that would ruin it for me.

I like good graphics on games, but only on those I expect to see them (PES) - FM has never been that to me and if it never became like that but other areas were improved and perfected, I think I would still be content with it. I doubt this will happen though - the match and graphics engine will improve for sure.

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb Kingstontom88:

While I agree the graphics side isn't the game's strong point, I can't say it bothers me that much. I mostly watch on 2D anyway as it gives me a better feel for what's happening (overview of whole pitch) - I have 3D replays which are nice to watch, but I rarely watch full games that way. 

It's edging along year by year, but for now I like the match engine and the way my tactics are set out are noticeable when watching in 3D mode.

If the graphics became the same level as the likes of FIFA and PES then that would be great and would create even more immersion in the game - player's faces and body types, even running styles become noticeable - better quality crowd and pitch effects.etc, improved sound - but if that was all put in and something was toned down, for example tactic options, a poor UI or the transfer/scouting system goes to pot, then that would ruin it for me.

I like good graphics on games, but only on those I expect to see them (PES) - FM has never been that to me and if it never became like that but other areas were improved and perfected, I think I would still be content with it. I doubt this will happen though - the match and graphics engine will improve for sure.

Its right. The game is still great, but i dont think that if we get better graphics the game lose everything else. There is no reason for it, those "deepnes" is in the game on a very good state, just the graphic engine is outdated as ****.

 

Still loving the game tho. But dont get it why they dont focus on that point for one year.

Edited by KiLLu12258

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1 hour ago, Barside said:

The only ground breaking feature I can imagine would be a VR view from the dugout & the directors box.

I like that idea, personally I don't need VR, but a view from the dugout or your technical area, mouse controlling your view (kinda FPV) and when you get a ban your up in the directors box again with first person view

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4 hours ago, Kingstontom88 said:

Methinks FM and its customer base will need to move with the times in the coming years.

The curios thing is that the "minimum requirements" have never been so "out of date". On the CPU side of things in particular, it's basically the same chips target as for FM 2009. If you go back to Champ Man etc. -- they never required the most powerful PC to at least "run". However, Champ Man 4, etc. -- they all required CPUs that were at best 3, 4, 5 years of age. Meanwhile, the Pentium 4 is going to approach it's twentieth birthday. Granted, CPU development in particular has slowed down a lot in more recent years. Not merely in terms of raw processing power... however, the gap's still huge to what is available even in budget PCs sold these days -- even a few years back. Graphics you can scale easily. Simply add detail levels.

I think they're a bit of a red herring anyway too, as SI would need significantly more staff to even approach semi-Fifa levels. Those are games that employ an entire taskforce of artists working on Messi's hairdo alone (to slightly exaggerate). The core ME simulation (and this is a 90 minutes sim), the transfer markets, the AI calculations -- you cannot scale to the same degrees. They eventually just multiply depending on how many leagues you load up, and by such, eat up additional processing time. But it's the same things happening on that 20 years old computer vs that spanking new one. Without a bit of compromise the 20 years old chip may be still calculating the 2017/2018 EPL season on FM18 by the time FM22's beta is due.

If you'd be tech-savvy, you may be even be a bit suspicious about a program that is advertised as a "football simulation", when that simulation basically runs on the same or similar machines as The Sims or Plants vs Zombies (that is the first one, the sequels sorry no). :D However, I think there's eventually going to be a cut-off line in the near future.

Edited by Svenc

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5 hours ago, Barside said:

The only ground breaking feature I can imagine would be a VR view from the dugout & the directors box.

Chairman mode. alot of poeple want it, miles wont do it

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25 minutes ago, Rub Rub said:

Chairman mode. alot of poeple want it, miles wont do it

Because he's right and It would be mind numbingly boring.

Edited by treble_yell_:-)

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Just now, treble_yell_:-) said:

Because he's right and I'd be mind numbingly boring.

for you perhaps. Yet alot of people want it, and there is a football chairman mobile game that is hugely popular.

I know its been debated many times on here, but regardless as if you would find it fun or not, that is a big new feature they could do

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To quote myself

"but a view from the dugout or your technical area, mouse controlling your view (kinda FPV) and when you get a ban your up in the directors box again with first person view"

surely still footy manager

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55 minutes ago, Rub Rub said:

for you perhaps. Yet alot of people want it, and there is a football chairman mobile game that is hugely popular.

I know its been debated many times on here, but regardless as if you would find it fun or not, that is a big new feature they could do

Miles is absolutely correct, it's a terrible idea & shoudl never be considered for FM. If the mode was really wanted & offered long term repalyability all the various titles that have gone down that route would still be in business. 

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Everyone has some valid points. I agree with most of them. First year I haven't purchased the game prior to release. Not enough in the game to 'excite' a long term FM'er. No doubt I will buy the game but im in no rush.

I raise the point again, no competition means the game doesn't need to be groundbreaking simple tweeks to a new release will ensure the hardcore fans to depart with another £30. 😁

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18 minutes ago, r70lla said:

I raise the point again, no competition means the game doesn't need to be groundbreaking simple tweeks to a new release will ensure the hardcore fans to depart with another £30. 😁

I do love it when I see this statement. It's absolute, Grade A ********.

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13 hours ago, Barside said:

Miles is absolutely correct, it's a terrible idea & shoudl never be considered for FM. If the mode was really wanted & offered long term repalyability all the various titles that have gone down that route would still be in business. 

That's terrible logic. Call of duty have just added a battle royale mode. You could have said the same about them and other titles not adding it for years. Intact they only added it when other more innovative games added it

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40 minutes ago, trevjim said:

That's terrible logic. Call of duty have just added a battle royale mode. You could have said the same about them and other titles not adding it for years. Intact they only added it when other more innovative games added it

Try Chairman mode on Madden, the novelty wears off quite quickly.

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Chairman mode comes up again and again, just like it will be a terrible idea again and again.

That's not to say that a chairman game isn't a good idea, but honestly, can you imagine putting a chairman mode into the current framework of FM?  Can anyone honestly say, with a straight face, that that wouldn't be incredibly tedious?  The game would need a lot of work to add any kind of depth to make the mode anything other than a 5 minute time-waster.  Anyone that says it would be fun without significant development beforehand is either lying, or maybe doesn't have much going on.

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