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City and Barcelona are going to be fighting over De Jong, he's going to go for a lot of money. So will De Ligt. 25 million in today's market is a joke. 

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7 minutes ago, Sticx said:

City and Barcelona are going to be fighting over De Jong, he's going to go for a lot of money. So will De Ligt. 25 million in today's market is a joke. 

Especially when Tottenham paid 42 million for Sanchez. That figure should be the ballpark for De Jong and Delete Ligt

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2 hours ago, Sticx said:

De Ligt. 25 million in today's market is a joke. 

eh i like it

in previous FM versions, someone like de ligt will never be sold by ajax unless you offer them 500 million upfront

more importantly, remember who the buyer is. someone said tottenham paid 42 million for sanchez but that's tottenham. leverkusen don't have that kind of money so 25 million is a lot. it's always like that in real life and FM. you'll pay  more if you're a premier club.

Edited by Artin

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9 hours ago, Weller1980 said:

I’ve not watched all the stream but the games I have watched have had a lot assists coming from crosses, I personally felt too many assists came from crosses in fm18 it’s a subjective opinion and perhaps a lot of people will disagree but I was hoping for a better spread of assists in fm19. 

It should not be an subjective opinion. There are statistics about how many goals come from crosses in real life and the match engine tries to simulate that in the game. If the game simulates over a large number games close to the same number as in real life then it is success. 

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On keeper ratings, it's pretty obvious nothing has been done. Very very rarely in FM 18 would I see a keeper get MOTM. It would only happen if they saved a penalty or two within the 90 minutes and everyone else had a poor game.

Good to see free kicks go in. It will take some time to see if the ratio is abnormally high (or still low). Crosses leading to goals do look a tad on the high side.

Transfers and AI squad building dont look like they have been worked upon. I will make a bet that fresh regens with no experience but a high scouted pa from a low rep club will still have 90m price tag. 

My general feeling has been that it just seems like a new mask on a new game. Everything except the new training modules could be done before, just by clicking on the right buttons. Yes, they have tinkered with aspects of the match engine and that is great to see. I am not being overly pessimistic, i know the team had a move of offices etc. 

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52 minutes ago, Artin said:

eh i like it

in previous FM versions, someone like de ligt will never be sold by ajax unless you offer them 500 million upfront

more importantly, remember who the buyer is. someone said tottenham paid 42 million for sanchez but that's tottenham. leverkusen don't have that kind of money so 25 million is a lot. it's always like that in real life and FM. you'll pay  more if you're a premier club.

This.  Using Sanchez to Spurs as an example just doesn't work for reasons you've given.  Kluivert moved to Roma for £15m this summer, if that was a Prem club buying they'd likely have demanded a good bit more.  So FdJ to Leverkusen for 25m seems fairly in line with that.  The SI guys also added a flat 30% sell on clause (not just a percentage of profit clause) so that likely lowered the price a fair bit as well.  

On the keeper ratings, was also disappointed from what I seen from the  2 streams, doesn't look like they've been sorted at all. 

Edited by celtic_fc

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5 hours ago, Vicz said:

I just realised you said he hasn’t broken through for his club side..

Do you actually have any idea who you’re talking about?

You need to separate real life from FM. In the FM world he isn't this big superstar youngster. Hes just a good player with a good future ahead of him. You are basing your entire reasoning based on his performances for AJax this season, well what about last season and the season before that. So he's being linked with Barcelona and Spurs. Last i check you have 10 kids in Brazil that are linked with Barcelona. 

He's a good prospect that is all. What has he done to justify costing 50-70m? Ajax wants 50m that doesn't mean he's a 50m player. They quote big money to ward clubs off for no club is gonna play 50-70m for him in irl. Arthur who is a better player and have more experience didn't cost Barca 50m. 

 

You need to learn how to judge a player based on his stats and his performance, not the inflated valuation placed on him by his club. 

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1 hour ago, Amarante said:

You need to separate real life from FM. In the FM world he isn't this big superstar youngster. Hes just a good player with a good future ahead of him. You are basing your entire reasoning based on his performances for AJax this season, well what about last season and the season before that. So he's being linked with Barcelona and Spurs. Last i check you have 10 kids in Brazil that are linked with Barcelona. 

He's a good prospect that is all. What has he done to justify costing 50-70m? Ajax wants 50m that doesn't mean he's a 50m player. They quote big money to ward clubs off for no club is gonna play 50-70m for him in irl. Arthur who is a better player and have more experience didn't cost Barca 50m. 

 

You need to learn how to judge a player based on his stats and his performance, not the inflated valuation placed on him by his club. 

With all due respect, I’ve just come to the conclusion you actually don’t know what you’re talking about.

The inconsistencies in what you’re saying are laughable. 

Edited by Vicz

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3 hours ago, celtic_fc said:

This.  Using Sanchez to Spurs as an example just doesn't work for reasons you've given.  Kluivert moved to Roma for £15m this summer, if that was a Prem club buying they'd likely have demanded a good bit more.  So FdJ to Leverkusen for 25m seems fairly in line with that.  The SI guys also added a flat 30% sell on clause (not just a percentage of profit clause) so that likely lowered the price a fair bit as well.  

On the keeper ratings, was also disappointed from what I seen from the  2 streams, doesn't look like they've been sorted at all. 

Justin Kluivert had one year left on his contract, he also fell out with the Ajax board. So totally different. If you’re going to actually interrogate the whole deal it was a £7m initial fee deal! Ajax would never accept that IRL, no matter the other clauses. Even Miles was shocked.

As I keep saying, the problem is 2 pronged, 1.) fee too low 2.) lack of competition - even if you agree with the low fee the lack of competition in the bidding was ridiculous.

I do however wonder if the alpha build has the new player stats, because in FM18 Frenkie isn’t the greatest player, and his stats didn’t seem much changed from his FM18 stats. That would explain everything if it was the case.

Sorry for double post.

Edited by Vicz

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10 hours ago, Vicz said:

It doesn’t really matter, the Ajax board have reported rejected offers of £20m-£30m and have reportedly set a fee of £50m. There are many strong links in the media with Barcelona, these are not hard things to code.

I can’t count the amount of times I’ve tried to buy a regen who has also done nothing in the game and the AI has not accepted anything less than £50m or even more! 

There is definitely functionality within the game to properly and realistically model this situation. To say “this isn’t real life” is a wild wild thing to say, the point of this game is to similate real life.

This is true, however it appears that the Dutch clubs are now pushing against this and realising they can demand much higher fees. Even if that’s not the case, there was no competition for the signing which is very wrong considering the plethora of clubs looking at Frenkie right now.

Can't comment on the players value in real life but, on stream, they also included a 30% of next sale clause (full value, not profit) which is another huge chunk of money. 

Edited by waddlemagic

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22 minutes ago, Vicz said:

 

I do however wonder if the alpha build has the new player stats, because in FM18 Frenkie isn’t the greatest player, and his stats didn’t seem much changed from his FM18 stats. That would explain everything if it was the case.

And this is pretty much what @Amarante was saying... The player stats and rep etc are nailed on very early. In the FM world this is de jong as at last season... Not the de jong who has been sensational irl the last few months.

 

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I saw the video of Miles on twitch about ME and it is exactly the same some new phisics and animations but nothing more. Actually is exactly the same for a decade now.

They really need to focus on ME for FM2020 as a priority. Is not enjoyable anymore.

Edited by Altair

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In that video of FM19 De Jong had something like 6 tackling, 8 marking, 6 positioning. Very low attributes for a player who's rated at natural in game at CB and CM. No wonder he goes cheap in game...

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5 hours ago, tstbb said:

Transfers and AI squad building dont look like they have been worked upon. I will make a bet that fresh regens with no experience but a high scouted pa from a low rep club will still have 90m price tag. 

 

And you can tell all this by watching ONE person's save for an hour or so. Blimey, SI should sign you up, your insight is clearly world class. 

 

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8 hours ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Especially when Tottenham paid 42 million for Sanchez. That figure should be the ballpark for De Jong and Delete Ligt

Sanchez had played the whole season that ajax got to a European final and was awesome, he also had only signed for ajax the season before which increased the value. A more fairer comparison would be Justin Kluivert, who went for around 15M and I would say Kluivert was more established then Frankie

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9 hours ago, MagicTiger said:

 He saves some good chances from the opponent, he gets an good rating. Now he saves some chances and nearly nothing happens to the rating, so I would choose the first suggestion.

Fully agreed. :)  My point just basically was: He should clearly get a higher rating but if that's a 9/10, what's this:D If you google "FM+and super keeper" you will see what I personally mean. It's mostly all player perception (and sensationalist television punditry). Players take the player ratings as something "Objective", when it's never been. Same as they rate their forwards chances of conversion wrong all the time -- not just a bit wrong, but apparently everytime their forward is halfway through on goal it's the same as being awarded a penalty or something.

There's also the expectation that just because keepers are perceived "world class", they would stop everything whilst vice versa the below average on their respective playing level wouldn't... that isn't the case (also in-game, vice versa too for forwards). The margins are far smaller. SI staff commenting the Twitch are a bit guilty of promoting that too ("That's what you get when you have the best keeper in the world in goal"). :D Well that Neuer very likely won't save **** if his backline isn't protected in FM19 likewise, which many FM'ers will have, as they log on en masse to FMBase and download one of SirGoalAlot's magic defenderless wonders. 

 

Edited by Svenc

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33 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

So every part of this is incorrect. Why would you even begin to write something so wrong?

Simple equation. Lack of understanding + sense of entitlement = Uninformed, incorrect nonsense. You've been here long enough to know this, surely :lol:

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4 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Simple equation. Lack of understanding + sense of entitlement = Uninformed, incorrect nonsense. You've been here long enough to know this, surely :lol:

Not on here often enough any more to remember these misguided posts. However, given that the ME apparently hasn't changed, then I'm curious to understand how things like the DC split can happen, and how we can separately control defensive and attacking width in FM19. Couldn't do things like that before, but if the ME is the same as it was a decade ago, then it must be magic. Or goblins.

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3 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

Not on here often enough any more to remember these misguided posts. However, given that the ME apparently hasn't changed, then I'm curious to understand how things like the DC split can happen, and how we can separately control defensive and attacking width in FM19. Couldn't do things like that before, but if the ME is the same as it was a decade ago, then it must be magic. Or goblins.

Definitely goblins. Magic doesn't exist. :brock:

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hace 57 minutos, RTHerringbone dijo:

So every part of this is incorrect. Why would you even begin to write something so wrong?

Sorry SI member hidden behind a "normal" user but i'm not from a native english language country. Sorry.

Truth hurts.

Edited by Altair

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4 minutes ago, Altair said:

Sorry SI member hidden behind a "normal" user but i'm not from a native english language country. Sorry.

Truth hurts.

Please stop deliberately lying about things and then having an attitude when called out on it

If people are going to go down this childish route, I'm simply going to start handing out infractions. 

Consider this a general final warning to the whole thread  

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2 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

And this is pretty much what @Amarante was saying... The player stats and rep etc are nailed on very early. In the FM world this is de jong as at last season... Not the de jong who has been sensational irl the last few months.

 

Again, people that say this, I would advise you to actually look up the player. He has been sensational for Ajax for the whole of the last season, it’s not just the last couple months. The interest from Barcelona et al was from before this season started.

Miles has said player stats are based on everything before the current season, therefore last season should have been taken into account. Data lock is also before the beta so it wouldn’t be unreasonable to think the alpha would have the updated stats. However, it may not, and maybe the updated stats will be in the beta.

45 minutes ago, Dan-smissen said:

Sanchez had played the whole season that ajax got to a European final and was awesome, he also had only signed for ajax the season before which increased the value. A more fairer comparison would be Justin Kluivert, who went for around 15M and I would say Kluivert was more established then Frankie

Can people stop spreading this falicy please? Like I’ve said already, 1 year left on contract + problems with the board = lower fee.

Edited by Vicz

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26 minutes ago, Altair said:

Sorry SI member hidden behind a "normal" user but i'm not from a native english language country. Sorry.

Truth hurts.

Genuine question: If you look at the ME from FM09 can you see no differences at all compared to FM18?

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1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

And you can tell all this by watching ONE person's save for an hour or so. Blimey, SI should sign you up, your insight is clearly world class. 

 

With all due respect, I never said that was the case. I said "it looks like". I made a calculated guess. They were playing in the transfer window for the save and I saw distinct similarities to FM18. No differences whatsoever. I will be happy to be proved wrong and I said in my original post that this was my thoughts of the alpha, not the beta or final game.

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1 hour ago, tstbb said:

With all due respect, I never said that was the case. I said "it looks like". I made a calculated guess. They were playing in the transfer window for the save and I saw distinct similarities to FM18. No differences whatsoever. I will be happy to be proved wrong and I said in my original post that this was my thoughts of the alpha, not the beta or final game.

Your criticism was that AI squad building was just the same. I have no idea how you can come to this conclusion based on a short video of one person's save in the first transfer window - when most AI controlled sides will already have done the majority of their transfer business when you start the game. You would only really be able to offer any kind of informed opinion on this had you played the game yourself for several seasons. 

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5 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

And this is pretty much what @Amarante was saying... The player stats and rep etc are nailed on very early. In the FM world this is de jong as at last season... Not the de jong who has been sensational irl the last few months.

 

Apparently, i have no idea what i'm saying. 

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3 hours ago, Altair said:

Sorry SI member hidden behind a "normal" user but i'm not from a native english language country. Sorry.

Truth hurts.

That was quite funny to be fair :lol:

ME has obviously changed since FM09, but nowhere near enough for 10 years of work in my opinion. Mind you thankfully it doesn't bother me that much as I'm much more interested in features such as tactics and training which I'm delighted with for FM19. That being said, its difficult for SI, they have users who don't have the best PC/Laptops in the world so any huge jump will no doubt effect many players. But whilst I'd disagree that nothing has changed with the ME, I don't think enough progress is there for the amount of time either. 

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Was interesting that Miles said on stream that he hadn't been seeing so many free-kick goals - the numbers we saw over the first 6 hours were pretty massive. If those are actually representative it's a bigger issue for me than the lack of them last year - going from the rate being around half what it should be to several multiples of it. And as I said I'm concerned generally about long-range shots. However, in the game against Munich Neuer did seem a lot more realistic in generally pulling off those saves, so if they can get it working well with top-level keepers it's hopefully a more minor tweak needed to help the slightly lesser keepers deal with these mostly routine effots rather than anything more major.

That all being said it is only a few months we've been able to see so far so it could be a fluke, and things in general look extremely promising.

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36 minutes ago, kosecki99 said:

20 shots on goal per game?, defenders are very bad!

THe more concerning stuff should be how (SI managed) Leverkusen rack up 20+ every other match, even against Bayern (even though few of them at all making the highlights were that high quality chances -- but then to me FM has always had the most severe issues stopping the half/barely chances, as comically highlighted by exploit tactics like knaps every year every time their exploiting zone happens to be stuffed with players by the AI). The general number of shots may have a little to do with the appraoches on either end from both teams. To an extent it should. La Liga matches involving Atletico for instance average 20 shots -- whilst for Real it's closer to the 30 shots average.

Of course, on FM you can be well above and below (always the case). If input wouldn't influence things, that'd be kinda worrying. A high number of shots doesn't necessarily mean bad defending (not by the game's standard anyway -- FM's defending works a bit different than in real football). Go ask any team Burnley played against last term. Eeven by mid December, they had comfortably conceded the most shots, yet still conceded the fewest goals alongside to Man City, who barely concede shots at all, at 6 average.  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/sports/soccer/burnley-arsenal-premier-league.html Sadly, FM has yet to provide statistics like the ones talked about at the bottom of the article, ones clearly assessed and considered by actual managers, so this (subjective) discussion will repeat ad nauseum.

Edited by Svenc

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10 hours ago, celtic_fc said:

This.  Using Sanchez to Spurs as an example just doesn't work for reasons you've given.  Kluivert moved to Roma for £15m this summer, if that was a Prem club buying they'd likely have demanded a good bit more.  So FdJ to Leverkusen for 25m seems fairly in line with that.  The SI guys also added a flat 30% sell on clause (not just a percentage of profit clause) so that likely lowered the price a fair bit as well.  

On the keeper ratings, was also disappointed from what I seen from the  2 streams, doesn't look like they've been sorted at all. 

The transfer of Frenkie de Jong to Bayer Leverkussen is in all regards completely unrealistic:

A) Frenkie won't be interested to join Bayer Leverkussen since the best clubs in the world are following him and since he is currently playing at a Ajax side which is better than Bayer Leverkussen. 

B) Since the best clubs of the world are following him (Barcelona wants him badly since last season already), there is a natural inflation on his transfer value way above 25m.

C) If Football Manager reflects real life it would have a Marc Overmars as a FD who bargains hard. He often let's his players go above market value. He would never ever agree with 7 million up front. The upfront figure alone without bonuses would be 30-40. 

D) The main problem of course for the unrealistic transfer value is, as always, the  potential ability the player has been awarded. Frenkie de Jong potentially is of the class of Thiago or Kroos to name a few but since he plays in the Eredivisie he is not rewarded with a great potential ability. I expect the same applies for De Ligt (who should have an even higher PA than Van Dijk or Varane in my humble opinion) or the likes of Bergwijn.

Let's just hope this live stream was still using an old DB because Frenkie de Jong does not look all that good at all. And training does not seem to make him a lot better.

Regarding the training overhaul: it would be good if a new live stream would focus more on the effect training has on player development and ME. This new training module looks to be very time consuming to set up. It would be a fantastic addition if a positive effect could be shown so that digging into the training settings becomes really rewarding.

My other impressions of FM2019 Alpha:

+ Tactical overhaul looks to  be great. The most intuitive and realistic way of setting up a tactic so far I think

+ ME shows some promising pressing for the human managers with their gegenpress tactic

- AI opponents look like they can't make use of the new tactics at all. The way Bayern plays against Bayer Leverkussen is just atrocious. It looks like gegenpress is being countered by some sort of "park the bus" tactic. While of course Bayern normally seeks to be the dominant party on the pitch. I am really hoping work making AI opponents more diverse and realistic. I am fed up seeing f.e. Guardiola's sides underperform in the ME. 

- Goalkeepers should have better ratings

- I feel one area that keeps being underdevelopped and where a nice graphic touch could be added is the visibility of club development. Being able to show new training grounds, better youth complex etc and then of course tying it together with better development of players and better youth coming through would make the whole club development feel more immersive. Especially since a lot of clubs  are investing heavily in training grounds and facilities as a way to be competitive against the big money machines, it seems this is a game area in which FM keeps lacking. Asking a board for investing in training grounds and then only receiving a message when work starts and when it has been completed just feels cosmetic. Same goes for not being able to see your own stadium outside the match day. I wish we could always see our stadium and lockerrooms. 

All in all I am looking forward to playing fm2019 again. But in fairness FM2019 does not add many features that will make the total gameplay more immersive. I.m.o. the focus for future versions should really be on adding more visible/graphical stuff. Club overview's of the (state of the) training grounds, stadium, lockers rooms is necessary to also enhance our experience when choosing to manage a club. Basically making the whole club experience feel more 3D is what I think FM needs going forward.

Edited by Mensell76
typing/grammar errors :)

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1 hour ago, Chris21 said:

That was quite funny to be fair :lol:

ME has obviously changed since FM09, but nowhere near enough for 10 years of work in my opinion. Mind you thankfully it doesn't bother me that much as I'm much more interested in features such as tactics and training which I'm delighted with for FM19. That being said, its difficult for SI, they have users who don't have the best PC/Laptops in the world so any huge jump will no doubt effect many players. But whilst I'd disagree that nothing has changed with the ME, I don't think enough progress is there for the amount of time either. 

And again, people are misunderstanding the difference between the match engine and the graphics you see on screen. The actual match engine is night and day from what it was in 2009. The graphical representation hasn't had the same leap - although clearly improved - but FM has never been about the graphics, which is one of the many reasons I still primarily play the game using the 2D view. 

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30 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

The transfer of Frenkie de Jong to Bayer Leverkussen is in all regards completely unrealistic:

A) Frenkie won't be interested to join Bayer Leverkussen since the best clubs in the world are following him and since he is currently playing at a Ajax side which is better than Bayer Leverkussen. 

B) Since the best clubs of the world are following him (Barcelona wants him badly since last season already), there is a natural inflation on his transfer value way above 25m.

C) If Football Manager reflects real life it would have a Marc Overmars as a FD who bargains hard. He often let's his players go above market value. He would never ever of over his D body agree with 7 million up front. The upfront figure alone without bonuses would be 30-40 alone. 

D) The main problem of course for the unrealistic transfer value is, as Always, the  potential ability the player is awarded. Frenkie de Jong potentially is of the class of Thiago or Kroos to name a few but since he plays in the Eredivisie he is not rewarded with a great potential ability. I expect the same applies for De Ligt (who should have an even higher PA than Van Dijk or Varane in my humble opinion) or the likes of Bergwijn.

Let's just hope this live stream was still using an old DB because Frenkie de Jong does not look all that good at all. And training does not seem to make him a lot better.

Absolutely spot on.

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26 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

A) Frenkie won't be interested to join Bayer Leverkussen since the best clubs in the world are following him and since he is currently playing at a Ajax side which is better than Bayer Leverkussen. 

 

Ajax are in a worse league than Leverkusen, and cannot pay the same wages. Dutch sides rarely hold on to their best talent.

28 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

 B) Since the best clubs of the world are following him (Barcelona wants him badly since last season already), there is a natural inflation on his transfer value way above 25m.

The transfer targets for teams are calculated at setup, and evolve over time. As soon as you start a game in FM you deviate from reality. If no big teams are interested in the game, then there is no inflation of the value. It is a good thing that the game does not progress the same way each time, that would be dull.

29 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

 C) If Football Manager reflects real life it would have a Marc Overmars as a FD who bargains hard. He often let's his players go above market value. He would never ever of over his D body agree with 7 million up front. The upfront figure alone without bonuses would be 30-40 alone. 

They sold Kluivert for 15 million to Roma. Suarez cost about 22 million I think. Dutch football is not a financially powerful nation in football. 25 million would be the 9th most expensive transfer in Dutch football. It sounds entirely reasonable. It would also depend on how long is left on his contract (I do not know this). 

 

33 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

 D) The main problem of course for the unrealistic transfer value is, as Always, the  potential ability the player is awarded. Frenkie de Jong potentially is of the class of Thiago or Kroos to name a few but since he plays in the Eredivisie he is not rewarded with a great potential ability. I expect the same applies for De Ligt (who should have an even higher PA than Van Dijk or Varane in my humble opinion) or the likes of Bergwijn.

Honestly, I have seen nothing from de Jong to suggest he is going to be one of the best midfielders in the game. I suspect he does not have a fixed PA in the game, but uses a range of values that changes in every save. The same foes for de Ligt, who looks promising but he has hardly set the world on fire with his defending. Like I said above, a player in Holland will be cheaper than one in Germany, say, because the league in Holland is worse than in Germany. There is less money, less prestige, and players would prefer to play at a higher level.

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29 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Ajax are in a worse league than Leverkusen, and cannot pay the same wages. Dutch sides rarely hold on to their best talent.

Ajax has drastically highered it's wages structure as of this year and will be a new policy for years to come. Ajax has a balance of over 150m and has choosen to spend more on wages to attract better players and hold on to their talents. Daley Blind, Tadic, Ziyech are reportedly now all earning over 3m a year. Not sure how much Leverkussen can pay but Leverkussen just isn't a club De Jong will be interested in, period.

Quote

The transfer targets for teams are calculated at setup, and evolve over time. As soon as you start a game in FM you deviate from reality. If no big teams are interested in the game, then there is no inflation of the value. It is a good thing that the game does not progress the same way each time, that would be dull.

They sold Kluivert for 15 million to Roma. Suarez cost about 22 million I think. Dutch football is not a financially powerful nation in football. 25 million would be the 9th most expensive transfer in Dutch football. It sounds entirely reasonable. It would also depend on how long is left on his contract (I do not know this). 

Please stop talking about the Kluivert deal. He was in his last year of his contract and did not want to extend. Ajax had the back ups for Kluivert already in place and choose to "take their losses" and sell him. The Suarez deal was ages ago. Memphis Depay to Man Utd was already a bigger deal and PSV historically undersells in comparison to Ajax.

Just to show how the dutch market is changing already: AZ sold Jahanbaksh for EUR 25m to Brighton. Even a limited striker as Weghorst was sold for EUR 11m to Wolfsburg. 

Quote

 

Honestly, I have seen nothing from de Jong to suggest he is going to be one of the best midfielders in the game. I suspect he does not have a fixed PA in the game, but uses a range of values that changes in every save. The same foes for de Ligt, who looks promising but he has hardly set the world on fire with his defending. Like I said above, a player in Holland will be cheaper than one in Germany, say, because the league in Holland is worse than in Germany. There is less money, less prestige, and players would prefer to play at a higher level.

Not sure which league(s) you usually follow nor which news you have been reading but De Ligt has kept Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Giroud and many other players in his pocket lately. Again it is not for nothing that Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man City and Juventus all want him badly. He is the best <20 years old defender in the world atm and plays with the calm and routine of a 27-28 year old.

With all due respect but the fact that you haven't seen anything from De Jong to suggest he is going to be the best midfielder in the game does not say all that much. Scouts from City, Barcelona, professionals like Thomas Muller who specifically mentioned the great skills of De Jong beg to differ. They know that he is a talent that can hardly be pressured because he Always has control over the ball and turns away from a player with such ease we dutch haven't seen in ages. His passing, calm, decisionmaking under pressure is great. He showed that against france and Germany as well so apparently he does not have difficulty adapting to the pressure of better opponents. No, he does not score a lot but he is being used a the transitional player from defense to offense mostly. He is a typical Man City or Barcelona player and if all goes well he will be one within 1 or 2 years.

Please just keep in mind that from an Ajax perspective, De Ligt and De Jong are their golden boys. They will not leave for amounts below Davidson Sanchez to Spurs. Overmars has been very specific on this topic, even stating they had already refused a 60m Euro offer on De Ligt.

Edited by Mensell76

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13 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

so many goals from crosses in this afternoons stream... 

They're playing with two attacking wingers/IFs and one lone striker, it;'s pretty obvious the focus of attacks will be from out wide.

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23 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

so many goals from crosses in this afternoons stream... 

What we need to see is the cross conversation rate & a few more matches on comprehensive highlights.

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Can someone get the Dutch head researcher in here please to explain to these people that IN THE GAME WORLD De jONG Hasn't done anything to warrant a big money move.  AJAX IN THE GAME decided that he was worth 25m+30% sell on fee. Also what you guys need to understand is that Frankie is probably on a -6 to -7 PA. And based on that 25m i a good value. 

 

You lot keep on confusing what AJAX values him at than what he is acctually valued at. No one is gonna spend 50-70m on a player that has just broken through, thats money that you spend on proven talent not potential. For all we know he could break his leg the next game (god forbid) and thats the end of his career. So stating that IN THE GAME we must pay 50-70m because hes such a great prospect in IRL what has he done IN THE GAME to justify this pricetag? The answer is nothing. 

 

an example in FM18 if you bought De ligt at the starting of your save you could get him between 10-20m if you waited then he would cost 30-50m. Its the same with Frankie, the longer your save goes on for the higher his cost will go. 

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3 minutes ago, Amarante said:

Can someone get the Dutch head researcher in here please to explain to these people that IN THE GAME WORLD De jONG Hasn't done anything to warrant a big money move.  AJAX IN THE GAME decided that he was worth 25m+30% sell on fee. Also what you guys need to understand is that Frankie is probably on a -6 to -7 PA. And based on that 25m i a good value. 

 

You lot keep on confusing what AJAX values him at than what he is acctually valued at. No one is gonna spend 50-70m on a player that has just broken through, thats money that you spend on proven talent not potential. For all we know he could break his leg the next game (god forbid) and thats the end of his career. So stating that IN THE GAME we must pay 50-70m because hes such a great prospect in IRL what has he done IN THE GAME to justify this pricetag? The answer is nothing. 

 

an example in FM18 if you bought De ligt at the starting of your save you could get him between 10-20m if you waited then he would cost 30-50m. Its the same with Frankie, the longer your save goes on for the higher his cost will go. 

Dude. How hard is it for you to understand that in FM19 before June 2018, for all intents and purposes

Gameworld = Real world

and before June 2018 Frenkie was already being talked about worldwide, already subject to interest from the best clubs in the world, already a starter for Ajax.

If you’re arguing that they’re using the old DB for the alpha, I can totally agree with that. Frenkie’s PA is trash on FM18.

Edited by Vicz

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Did the guys on the stream not have to include a ton of add ons to get De Jong for 25mill? 

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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Did the guys on the stream not have to include a ton of add ons to get De Jong for 25mill? 

7mil + instalments totalling £16m(?)  + 30% future sale. Still unrealistic imho. And Miles was visibly surprised.

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1 minute ago, Vicz said:

7mil + instalments totalling £16m(?)  + 30% future sale. Still unrealistic imho. And Miles was visibly surprised.

When you press continue on the first day, the game ceases to mirror real life. 

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3 minutes ago, Vicz said:

Dude. How hard is it for you to understand that in FM19 before June 2018, for all intents and purposes

Gameworld = Real world

and before June 2018 Frenkie was already being talked about worldwide, already subject to interest from the best clubs in the world, already a starter for Ajax.

If you’re arguing that they’re using the old DB for the alpha, I can totally agree with that. Frenkie’s PA is trash on FM18.

NO! The game world does not equal real world! The only thing that is reflected is the upgrade in stats, players, coaches etc.  FM is a game, a simulation, software where everything comes down to numbers. Show me the stats that prove that this player is valued at 50m. This is what the game is going off of. His PA, how important he is to the GAME Ajax Management. You fail to make the separation between REAL WORLD AJAX and GAME AJAX.  AS OF July 2nd 2018. Their is nothing in the game to suggest that he would command a real life fee. 

 

You are trying to say that SI must hard code that this player must be sold for x amount based on chatter around the football world? The same thing happen with Odegard a few years back how ha he turned out. Ever few years we get a couple of great youth prospects that the world is watching and the papers say this and that club are watching them, how much of them actually end up at these clubs., Thats how football works.   At this moment you have Rodrygo and Vincius who are being touted as the next Neymar, the next Ronaldinho. Ethan Ampadu is 18 and is a full international he's being touted to going to do great things for wales. 

 

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Also have to consider that if they are truly playing an alpha build that’s one which is neither feature or data complete, could be any number of new transfer code or data elements that are not in that version.

FWIW it is mildly concerning that the deal was done without any competition however I suspect they’re running the save with only the Bundesliga active so there’ll be very  limited competition for the player as a consequence of other nations not being active.

 

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9 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

When you press continue on the first day, the game ceases to mirror real life. 

It does need to mimic it though so if there is a perception that it’s not doing that it should be assessed & could be an issue, not something that we can do just form watching a single play stream though.

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13 minutes ago, Amarante said:

NO! The game world does not equal real world! The only thing that is reflected is the upgrade in stats, players, coaches etc.  FM is a game, a simulation, software where everything comes down to numbers. Show me the stats that prove that this player is valued at 50m. This is what the game is going off of. His PA, how important he is to the GAME Ajax Management. You fail to make the separation between REAL WORLD AJAX and GAME AJAX.  AS OF July 2nd 2018. Their is nothing in the game to suggest that he would command a real life fee. 

 

You are trying to say that SI must hard code that this player must be sold for x amount based on chatter around the football world? The same thing happen with Odegard a few years back how ha he turned out. Ever few years we get a couple of great youth prospects that the world is watching and the papers say this and that club are watching them, how much of them actually end up at these clubs., Thats how football works.   At this moment you have Rodrygo and Vincius who are being touted as the next Neymar, the next Ronaldinho. Ethan Ampadu is 18 and is a full international he's being touted to going to do great things for wales. 

 

I can only assume, based on what you’re saying, and your sporadic use of capitals, that you’ve gone mad. So I’m going to end my discourse with you with this:

When the game FM19 comes out, go onto Frenkie de Jong’s history, and tell me if the league apps and goals tally up with real life.

Until then, it’s been a pleasure.

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28 minutes ago, Barside said:

Also have to consider that if they are truly playing an alpha build that’s one which is neither feature or data complete, could be any number of new transfer code or data elements that are not in that version.

FWIW it is mildly concerning that the deal was done without any competition however I suspect they’re running the save with only the Bundesliga active so there’ll be very  limited competition for the player as a consequence of other nations not being active.

 

It had some other leagues at least on view only - Italy, France, Austria and Holland I believe. No England or Spain though.

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